True Trinity.

[Grailhunter]

The Holy Spirit does not have a name because of is just that, the Spirit of God, of the Father.

The connector, ‘Of’, makes it patently clear that it is a ‘possessive’ word.

Thus, ‘Father of Jesus’ tells us that ‘Jesus’ is ‘a possession’ of the Father... ’belonging to’, the Father.

Is there another way of viewing / understanding this term?

And you devise a new scripture: Where in any scriptures is there any reference to:

• Jesus having a ‘HOLY’ Spirit?
• The Holy Spirit having a ‘HOLY SPIRIT’?

Please show a chapter & verse, as I have never read such a thing in the Scriptures at any time. But do not try to confuse me by saying that:

• ‘EACH HAS A SPIRIT THAT IS HOLY’

Jesus has a Spirit, yes! It is the SAME for all mankind. The body of him is composed of thd dust of the earth just like any human Being. It is ‘dead’, inert, unenlivened... until a Spirit is put into it to enliven it... that Spirit contains the will and desires to maintain the body that it is in, to keep it from harm, to seek out necessary nourishment for it, to beautify and adorn it, etc. If the spirit leaves it’s body then we observe a ‘DEAD BODY’, but if the spirit LOSES CONTROL of the body, we call it ’A Coma’... the Spirit is still in the body but if no longer enlivens it FULLY. This is the state that Jesus found the young girl and told the fearfilled parents, ‘She is not dead. She is only sleeping!’.

The Holy Spirit IS SPIRIT... Spirit does not have Spirit.

The Father IS SPIRIT : GOD is SPIRIT. Thus is not the same as a Sentient Spirit.
The meaning here is that the Father is not a physical Being. He is not something seen with fleshly eyes. He is not contained by any vessel or container. He is unrestricted in his BEING...
The Holy Angels are Spirit, but restricted in power and authority. They are sentient but under a system of orders to seek to do the Will of their creator: God, the Father, their Father.
God instructs then, commands them, sends them, in the pursuit of HIS Will. They obey and remain ‘seeing his face’ (Spiritually) as long as they continue to do his Will.

Jesus is a human Being. His Spirit is CONTAINED, RESTRAINED by the physical body it is put in. It is more powerful than we know and are generally allowed to use it. Thus is why Jesus tells us that if we had faith we could do greater things than we think we can do. But we are WEAK in FAITH and let our bodies fail us constantly. When we have FAITH (as much even as a mustard seed) then we have access to the HOLY SPIRIT OF THE FATHER, which, if we are fully sincere, will empower our own spirit to act. We currently STILL do not have enough godly Faith to gain access to the Holy Spirit of the Father.

But, you need not believe what I say... the Scriptures tells you what I say - believe that!

And, please, show me where you found the verses saying that Jesus has a Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit has a Holy Spirit... I’m intrigued!!

Are kidding me? You do not know this? The scriptures use the word spirit loosely, liberally, and frequently, but there is a God in the Trinity that is referred to as "the Holy Spirit." The lack of a name had caused a lot of confusion. Now the KJV refers to the Holy Spirit as Holy Ghost and you would think that, that would help, but that is not always the case. The word or term spirit is going to appear frequently because the Holy Bible contains scriptures pertaining to religion, holy, and God. So you will see the phrase Spirit of _____ pertaining to many references. I am providing the scriptures so you can study them and compare them. Any reference to God the Father's spirit or God the Son's spirit should be assumed to be holy...what would be the alternative? Then you come along and say you believe they are all spirits...so....since none of them are evil spirits, then they are all Holy Spirits... If you do not get into the details you will chase your tail trying to understand.

2Pt:1:21: For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

1Jn:5:7: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Jude:1:20: But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Mt:10:20: For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Mt:12:28: But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Lk:4:18: The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Jn:14:17: Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Jn:15:26: But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Jn:16:13: Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Acts:5:9: Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

Acts:8:39: And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Acts:16:16: And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:

Rom:1:4: And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Rom:8:2: For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom:8:9: But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom:8:11: But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Rom:8:14: For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Rom:8:15: For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.


Rom:11:8: (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Rom:15:19: Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

 

[Grailhunter]

1Cor:2:11: For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

1Cor:2:12: Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

1Cor:2:14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1Cor:3:16: Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1Cor:4:21: What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

1Cor:6:11: And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

1Cor:7:40: But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.

1Cor:12:3: Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

2Cor:3:3: Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

2Cor:3:17: Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

2Cor:3:18: But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

2Cor:4:13: We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

Gal:4:6: And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Eph:1:13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Eph:1:17: That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Eph:4:23: And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Eph:4:30: And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Phil:1:19: For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,

2Thes:2:8: And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2Tm:1:7: For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Heb:9:14: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Heb:10:29: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

1Pt:1:11: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

1Pt:4:14: If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

1Jn:4:2: Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

1Jn:4:6: We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Rv:11:11: And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Rv:19:10: And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

 

[Grailhunter]

Eph:1:13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph:4:30: And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

1Thes:4:8: He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

Mt:1:18: Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Mt:1:20: But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Mt:3:11: I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Mt:12:31: Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Mt:12:32: And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Mt:28:19: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mk:1:8: I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Mk:3:29: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Mk:12:36: For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Mk:13:11: But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Lk:1:15: For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Lk:1:35: And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Lk:1:41: And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Lk:1:67: And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

Lk:2:25: And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

Lk:2:26: And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

Lk:3:16: John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Lk:3:22: And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Lk:4:1: And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

Lk:12:10: And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

Lk:12:12: For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

Jn:1:33: And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Jn:7:39: (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Jn:14:26: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Jn:20:22: And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Acts:1:2: Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Acts:1:5: For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts:1:8: But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Acts:1:16: Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

Acts:2:4: And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts:2:33: Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Acts:2:38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts:4:8: Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

Acts:4:31: And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

Acts:5:3: But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Acts:5:32: And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Acts:6:3: Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.

Acts:6:5: And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:

Acts:7:51: Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Acts:7:55: But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Acts:8:15: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

Acts:8:17: Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts:8:18: And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

Acts:8:19: Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

 

[Grailhunter]

Acts:9:17: And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

Acts:9:31: Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.

Acts:10:38: How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Acts:10:44: While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Acts:10:45: And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts:10:47: Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Acts:11:15: And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

Acts:11:16: Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Acts:11:24: For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord.

Acts:13:2: As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

Acts:13:4: So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.

Acts:13:9: Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,

Acts:13:52: And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost.

Acts:15:8: And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

Acts:15:28: For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Acts:16:6: Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,

Acts:19:2: He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Acts:19:6: And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Acts:20:23: Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me.

Acts:20:28: Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Acts:21:11: And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.

Acts:28:25: And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,

Rom:5:5: And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Rom:9:1: I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

Rom:14:17: For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Rom:15:13: Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

Rom:15:16: That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

1Cor:2:13: Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1Cor:6:19: What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1Cor:12:3: Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

2Cor:6:6: By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,

2Cor:13:14: The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

1Thes:1:5: For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

1Thes:1:6: And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:

2Tm:1:14: That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.

Ti:3:5: Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Heb:2:4: God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

Heb:3:7: Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

Heb:6:4: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Heb:9:8: The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

Heb:10:15: Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

1Pt:1:12: Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

2Pt:1:21: For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

1Jn:5:7: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Jude:1:20: But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

 

[JustAskin]

I believe the Trinity is three Gods that are united in a divine way, and that is the end of what words can describe.
The exact description of the construct is beyond words or human visualization or comprehension.

You might believe anything about the trinity... Christianity is not about whether you (or anyone else) believes in a God who is three persons.

However, I do agree that PERHAPS the true faith and belief should have a name different to ‘Christianity’ IF Christianity is defined as ‘Three persons as one God’.

I foolishly call myself a Christian ... forgive me for attempting to modify the name of the Trinity family of beliefs.

As a matter of fact, a moderator on my last forum told me to register myself as ‘Alternative Belief’... I didn’t learn my lesson from then!

You believe trinity is three persons... ok, but I thought we were debating and discussing the God of the Israelites, the God of the Jews... That God is not the same God as the one taught in trinity.

The God of trinity is a strange synergy that is unheard of in all aspects of religious belief. Your God, it is claimed, said that he was:

• ‘[your] One God’

My God is the God expressed in the scriptures who said that he was:

• ‘[Your] ONLY GOD’

The Israelites lived among, or surrounded by, tribes and nations who believed in MANY GODS who oversaw the created (or even Persistent) world in rank orders. A typical number of Gods is three, and further to that, there were Male and Female Gods, with the Male Gods even ’coming down’ into humanity to impregnate human females resulting in children who were hybrid God-Men!
I’m sure you can see the parallel between these and the demon angels who did similar...
Trinity took this concept one step further and claims that their ‘Man-God’ was uniquely non-mingling flesh and spirit, meaning he was 100% God, while also, 100% Man... but though he is ALWAYS 100% so, he often LACKS BEING GOD, and often is a SUPERMAN - BOTH IMPOSSIBLE if he were 100% each unmingled items.
Trinity claims :

• he CHOSE TO NOT KNOW things that GOD KNOWS...
• he CHOSE TO DIE even though GOD cannot die
• he Chose to be a servant to God (Isaiah 42:1) and subdue himself to HIMSELF (God... really? Can God subdue himself... surely he cannot still br God if he is subdued?)

So, which ‘God’ are we REALLY discussing?

Christ was not an adopted Son of God.

Any member of the Trinity can manifest in the flesh, even angels and even physical...You put limits on God's power. Do you want examples of God and angels becoming physical... wrestling.... impregnating... walking... you tell me.

Almighty God does not ‘manifest in the flesh’. I can’t understand why you claim knowledge of the scriptures yet fail to read and understand the words:

• ‘No one has seen God at any time’ (John 1:18)
• ‘Not that anyone has seen the Father...’(John 6:46)
• ‘[God/the Father] who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever.’ (Tim 6:26)
• ‘No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.’ (1 John 4:12)
• No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. (1 John 3:6)
  
  
• If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.(1 John 4:20)

You deny these verses? These verses that state that no one has seen God - no one has seen the Father (no one who sins!)

 

[JustAskin]

Eph:1:13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph:4:30: And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

1Thes:4:8: He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

Mt:1:18: Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Mt:1:20: But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Mt:3:11: I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Mt:12:31: Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Mt:12:32: And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Mt:28:19: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mk:1:8: I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Mk:3:29: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Mk:12:36: For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Mk:13:11: But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Lk:1:15: For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Lk:1:35: And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Lk:1:41: And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Lk:1:67: And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

Lk:2:25: And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

Lk:2:26: And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

Lk:3:16: John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Lk:3:22: And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Lk:4:1: And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

Lk:12:10: And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

Lk:12:12: For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

Jn:1:33: And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Jn:7:39: (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Jn:14:26: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Jn:20:22: And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Acts:1:2: Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Acts:1:5: For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts:1:8: But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Acts:1:16: Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

Acts:2:4: And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts:2:33: Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Acts:2:38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts:4:8: Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

Acts:4:31: And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

Acts:5:3: But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Acts:5:32: And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Acts:6:3: Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.

Acts:6:5: And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:

Acts:7:51: Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Acts:7:55: But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Acts:8:15: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

Acts:8:17: Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts:8:18: And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

Acts:8:19: Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

These verses absolutely confirm that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Almighty.

You can substitute, ‘Power [and authority (as appropriate) of the Father’ into ever place that says, ‘Holy Spirit’* and it will read absolutely correct... try it!

*There is no such thing as ‘Holy Ghost’. It is ‘Holy Spirit’.
The misused word, ‘Ghost’ is a medieval term meaning, ‘Disembodied Spirit’. It was what these people used to explain mysterious sightings of wispy gaseous haze or shadowy movements and eerie sounds in dark places... Supposedly these were the disembodied spirits of departed individuals. Today we know that this is all nonsense but in more ignorant times it was easy to believe such nonsense!
Of course, the church, etc, would use such innocence as a control medium for the populous.

 

[JustAskin]

Are kidding me? You do not know this? The scriptures use the word spirit loosely, liberally, and frequently, but there is a God in the Trinity that is referred to as "the Holy Spirit." The lack of a name had caused a lot of confusion. Now the KJV refers to the Holy Spirit as Holy Ghost and you would think that, that would help, but that is not always the case. The word or term spirit is going to appear frequently because the Holy Bible contains scriptures pertaining to religion, holy, and God. So you will see the phrase Spirit of _____ pertaining to many references. I am providing the scriptures so you can study them and compare them. Any reference to God the Father's spirit or God the Son's spirit should be assumed to be holy...what would be the alternative? Then you come along and say you believe they are all spirits...so....since none of them are evil spirits, then they are all Holy Spirits... If you do not get into the details you will chase your tail trying to understand.

2Pt:1:21: For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

1Jn:5:7: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Jude:1:20: But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Mt:10:20: For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Mt:12:28: But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Lk:4:18: The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Jn:14:17: Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Jn:15:26: But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Jn:16:13: Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Acts:5:9: Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

Acts:8:39: And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Acts:16:16: And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:

Rom:1:4: And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Rom:8:2: For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom:8:9: But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom:8:11: But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Rom:8:14: For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Rom:8:15: For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.


Rom:11:8: (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Rom:15:19: Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

You err greatly in your desperation to make a claim that is rudely false.

There is ONE SPIRIT... a single Spirit ... that is Holy: The Spirit of God.. the Spirit of the Father.

Please substitute ‘Power of God’ where you see ‘Holy Spirit’ and you will delighted to see the truth of what I’m showing you.

In fact, one verse you presented even states, ‘Spirit of the Father’ as I’ve been showing you.

The Father SENDS his HOLY SPIRIT as a GIFT to the Apostles... this is what was presented as tongues of fire in the upper chamber during Pentecost.

Jesus had told the Apostkes to wait there until they RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE FATHER.

• “I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high." (Luke 24:29)
• “Once when he was eating with them, he commanded them, “Do not leave Jerusalem until the Father sends you the gift he promised, as I told you before. (Acts 1:4)
• “The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him [Jesus]. The spirit of wisdom and understanding, The spirit of counsel and strength, The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.” (Isaiah 11:2)

...

• “Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" is conscious and hardened opposition to the truth, "because the Spirit is truth" (1 John 5:6). Conscious and hardened resistance to the truth leads man away from humility and repentance, and without repentance there can be no forgiveness.

 

[Grailhunter]

These verses absolutely confirm that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Almighty.

You can substitute, ‘Power [and authority (as appropriate) of the Father’ into ever place that says, ‘Holy Spirit’* and it will read absolutely correct... try it!

*There is no such thing as ‘Holy Ghost’. It is ‘Holy Spirit’.
The misused word, ‘Ghost’ is a medieval term meaning, ‘Disembodied Spirit’. It was what these people used to explain mysterious sightings of wispy gaseous haze or shadowy movements and eerie sounds in dark places... Supposedly these were the disembodied spirits of departed individuals. Today we know that this is all nonsense but in more ignorant times it was easy to believe such nonsense!
Of course, the church, etc, would use such innocence as a control medium for the populous.

No they don't.
I am done.

 

[JustAskin]

No they don't.
I am done.

Why are you done? I don’t understand?

The scriptures absolutely shows that the Father’s power and authority FLOWS FROM HIM... this is what even trinity states as:

• ‘Emanation from God’
• ‘And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father
• ;’ (‘Nicene...’ Creed: Constantinople A.D. 381)

How can an almighty God person be ‘a proceeding’... from God... um.. from the Father!!

Again, emphasise that it is from ‘The Father’... The Father says of the Son:

• “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.” (Isaiah 42:1)
• “Behold my servant whom I have chosen, my beloved in whom my soul hath been well pleased. I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.” (Matthew 12:18)

And what happened at Jesus’ baptism... Baptised with WATER and HOLY SPIRIT...!
Has anyone been heard of being ‘baptised with a God’? With a Person? Jesus was baptised WITH the Holy Spirit - not ‘By’ the Holy Spirit... for sure, this points to the Holy Spirit, if it wasn’t evident before, as an property, an ‘it’, and, as I pointed out before, is what EMPOWERS Jesus and the Apostles (at Pentecost) to do the Will of God, the Father, to enable them to perform actions above those of non-empowered individuals.

And concerning the Israelites:

• “And I will put my Spirit in you so that you will follow my decrees and be careful to obey my regulations.” (Ezekiel 36:27)

And the Apostles:

• “But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.” (1 John 2:27)

The ‘Him’ referred to in that verse is THE FATHER.

The ‘it’ is the Holy Spirit. If a book written by an absolute ‘God of an author‘ (vernacular!) teaches students ... do you call the book, a ‘Person’ because it taught the students? Does not an enlightening truth ‘SPEAK’ to you out of your ignorance?

And speaking of the Father, John 6:45 says:

• “It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me—”

You can see from this that the teaching is from GOD, from The Father... all who are taught by the Father, by the Spirit of the Father, comes to Jesus!!

 

[Grailhunter]

Why are you done? I don’t understand?

The scriptures absolutely shows that the Father’s power and authority FLOWS FROM HIM... this is what even trinity states as:

• ‘Emanation from God’
• ‘And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father
• ;’ (‘Nicene...’ Creed: Constantinople A.D. 381)

How can an almighty God person be ‘a proceeding’... from God... um.. from the Father!!

Again, emphasise that it is from ‘The Father’... The Father says of the Son:

• “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.” (Isaiah 42:1)
• “Behold my servant whom I have chosen, my beloved in whom my soul hath been well pleased. I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.” (Matthew 12:18)

And what happened at Jesus’ baptism... Baptised with WATER and HOLY SPIRIT...!
Has anyone been heard of being ‘baptised with a God’? With a Person? Jesus was baptised WITH the Holy Spirit - not ‘By’ the Holy Spirit... for sure, this points to the Holy Spirit, if it wasn’t evident before, as an property, an ‘it’, and, as I pointed out before, is what EMPOWERS Jesus and the Apostles (at Pentecost) to do the Will of God, the Father, to enable them to perform actions above those of non-empowered individuals.

And concerning the Israelites:

• “And I will put my Spirit in you so that you will follow my decrees and be careful to obey my regulations.” (Ezekiel 36:27)

And the Apostles:

• “But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.” (1 John 2:27)

The ‘Him’ referred to in that verse is THE FATHER.

The ‘it’ is the Holy Spirit. If a book written by an absolute ‘God of an author‘ (vernacular!) teaches students ... do you call the book, a ‘Person’ because it taught the students? Does not an enlightening truth ‘SPEAK’ to you out of your ignorance?

And speaking of the Father, John 6:45 says:

• “It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me—”

You can see from this that the teaching is from GOD, from The Father... all who are taught by the Father, by the Spirit of the Father, comes to Jesus!!

Let me be polite....move on to someone else. God bless.

 

[JustAskin]

Grailhunter: please just politely answer these few questions and then I will leave you:

1. Is your god-Jesus equal to the Father?
2. Is your Holy Spirit person-God equal to Jesus?
3. Is the Father equal to the Holy Spirit person-God?
4. ‘The Father was pleased that in [the Son] all the fullness dwelled’... what was Jesus, the Son, BEFORE the fullness dwelt in him... (remember that Jesus was ‘filled’ with the Holy Spirit at his baptism... which, to me, is meaning they Holy Spirit of God, the Father)
5. What is the purpose of your Jesus-God gaining the reward of being seated on the throne of his ancestor, King David, if Jesus is ALMIGHTY GOD?

Ok, Get done and go!
Thank you.

 

[JustAskin]

To all...
It was once told me by a trinitarian that a ray of light from the sun is equal to the sun that produced that ray of light.

I said that that was nonsense because I can look at a ray of light but I can’t look at the sun that produced that ray of light [without endangering my eyesight]

So I then asked the trinitarian why the bible says we cannot look upon the Father [without dying] but we can look upon the Son...!

Hd wouldn’t answer (He couldn’t answer) because he knew the answer would deny trinity ideology.

Sad... can Trinitarians not admit when they realise they are wrong??

 

[Grailhunter]

Grailhunter: please just politely answer these few questions and then I will leave you:

1. Is your god-Jesus equal to the Father?
2. Is your Holy Spirit person-God equal to Jesus?
3. Is the Father equal to the Holy Spirit person-God?
4. ‘The Father was pleased that in [the Son] all the fullness dwelled’... what was Jesus, the Son, BEFORE the fullness dwelt in him... (remember that Jesus was ‘filled’ with the Holy Spirit at his baptism... which, to me, is meaning they Holy Spirit of God, the Father)
5. What is the purpose of your Jesus-God gaining the reward of being seated on the throne of his ancestor, King David, if Jesus is ALMIGHTY GOD?

Ok, Get done and go!
Thank you.

I gave you a few dozen pertinent scriptures and that did not help.. So scriptures do not mean much to you, so do not trouble me...

 

[JustAskin]

Thanks, Grailhunter... I knew you wouldn’t not / COULD NOT answer.

Your inability to answer is what ALL Trinitarians do when asked these questions...

I will leave you on this matter unless it is raised again...

Can anyone else of trinitarian leaning answer my set of five questions...

Anyone?

 

[JustAskin]

The question in this thread is concerning whether the ‘Christian’ God is a Monotheist or a Polytheist.

Supporters of a Christian monotheist God define their God as:

• One God .... composed of three Persons who are all co-all-powerful, co-equal, co-authorative, ...(co-everything)

Supporters of a polytheist God claim that the Christian ‘Deity’ is:

• a singular Being .... composed of three Gods (‘Deity’ implies and point to ‘The article of worship’)

And strangely, other definitions claim that this Christian God is:

• a singular being who manifests himself at different times as one of three persons who are God in themselves

I think we can safely dismiss this latter definition and it’s supporters as it is clear that all three persons of the ‘trinity’ of persons/Gods have an appearance or refer to, appeal to, and even interact with, their counterparts on occasions.

So, what of the first case... monotheist. Supporters most often quote a verse from the Old Testament (Torah) stating:

• ‘Hear, o Israel, the LORD your God, is ONE GOD’ (emphasis mine)

Apparently, this is meant to be proof of a singular God composed of three persons!!!!

However, other revelations, verses or sayings given as proof all result in actually proving that the three such persons are NOT EQUAL at all. In fact, there is a HIERARCHY, a RANK ORDER, with:

• ‘The Father’ being GREATEST in God from whom all other things flow
  • ‘Father’ means:
    • ‘To bring into being, to give life to, to be head, to be the provider’
• This Father ‘eternally’ begets the ‘second in God’, ‘the Son’ and provides him with his needs, the Son appeals to the Father throughout his life
• The ‘third in God’, the Holy Spirit, is defined as:
  • ‘An emanation’, ‘an outflowing’ FROM the Father’
  • which is used to empower and ANOINT the Son and the disciples
  • It even RECEIVES from the Son after the Son is given all things by the Father (which begs the question: How is it co-All-powerful, co-equal and co-authoritative if it is given things from another source... which is clearly greater, or at least in control of it.

Returning to ‘One God’. It must be shown here that the implied meaning of the quoted verse is incorrect and used out of context by the Christian ‘trinity’ supporters.
The God of the Israelites stated to his favoured nation that they were to believe that He was:

• ‘[their] ONLY GOD’

Trinity translators misused or mistook the word, ‘Only’, and replaced it with ‘One’, in order to open the gateway to claiming that their God is a ‘UNITY’... and thus a possibility of being ‘Multiple Individuals (deities)’.

Now, consider that the Israelites were surrounded by and exposed greatly, to tribes and nations who believed in MANY deities (Gods), typically THREE main ones. Is it a far cry to see how trinity believers could infuse a ‘ONLY’ God with multiple persons to more easily convert (prostelyse) pagans to Christianity? And, having claimed the ‘main players’ in Christianity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are DEITIES, it was left to desperate definitions to try to explain how THREE DEITIES (which amounts to THREE GODS) still count as ‘ONLY GOD’.

Of course, the simplest thing to do is to claim that the word is ‘One’ and not ‘Only’. And then, that the three deities are the SAME ONE GOD, that ‘One’ implies a ‘UNITY’ (it wouldn’t work with ‘Only’!)

A point in case is that Jesus Christ claimed that ‘Eternal Life’ depended on believing that the Father is:

• ‘...the ONLY TRUE GOD...’

Trinity supporters can not refute this claim and never comment on it except to put forward an ultra weak defence that:

• Jesus simply did not want to glorify himself by including himself as ‘the only true God’

and that he did follow the statement with:

• ‘...and Jesus Christ whom you sent’

However, that actually plays against Jesus claiming deity... We know that Jesus Christ was SENT by the Father to REVEAL the Father... whom Jesus said, was the ONLY TRUE God. Jesus even verified this, saying:

• Father, I have given them the words you gave me to give to them - I have glorified your name (paraphrased)

There are many more proofs that there is no co-anything in the trinity One God. The son is anointed with the power of his Father... the spirit of truth, the holy oil.
And in case you are unaware, individuals found worthy by God to be set aside as kings and priests in the Torah era were anointed (set aside) with a special concoction of oils held and only authorised to be used by an existing priest or king.
Thus, Jesus Christ was being earmarked to be a King or a priest (and HIGH priest, in fact!) to Almighty God, the Father. Why, if Jesus were an entity who IS GOD, would there be an anointing of him to become something LESS THAN GOD? And a High Priest TO GOD - meaning, a high priest of HIMSELF?
And, how is it that the Holy Spirit is the ‘Holy Oil’ that is ‘poured out’ over Son, and apostles, as an empowerment, if it is itself ALMIGHTY GOD?

But, in truth, the scriptures defines the Holy Spirit as:

• ‘The [holy] power of God’
• ‘The [holy] power of the Father’
• ‘The Spirit of Truth’

There is no definition that paints the Holy Spirit as GOD. do not be fooled by the verses: ‘You lied to the Holy Spirit.... [therefore] ... you lied to God’. It is an outspelling of the truth that the Spirit of God is the power of God - an emanation OF GOD.

See that it is recursive to claim that the Holy Spirit IS ‘GOD’ if ‘God’ is, ‘Father, Son, and a Holy Spirit’... because then you would have the Holy Spirit defined AS ITSELF... and the same if Jesus is God then Jesus is a God of himself, and the Father also...
This is how the screwed-up trinity definition led to others claiming each of the three ARE THEMSELVES and thus an emanation of each other...

Sense? Not at all??

So, the Trinity Christian God is neither polytheistic not monotheistic because the definition of the deities that are each claimed to be ‘ONE God’ is F A L S E .

The true God did not claim to be ‘One’. He claimed he was their ‘ONLY’ God (his people are to worship Him as their ONLY GOD).

And, to cap it off for those who imagine that the ONLY GOD mysteriously and secretly birthed a son in spirit from eternity, be it known that the definition of ‘Sons used in scriptures concerning Jesus, and those whom are deemed worthy, is this:

• ‘He who does the works of the Father’
• ‘All who follow the Spirit of God are CHILDREN of God’

The holy angels are:

• Spirit sons of the Father/God because they continually do His works
• Adam, the first of mankind, was human ‘Son of God, the Father’ because, up until he sinned, he DID do all that the Father directed him to do
• Jesus, the second/Last Adam (a human Being), IS Human Son of God/the Father, because he did and will always ’do the works of his Father’ - and hence, at this time, he is the ONLY [Human] SON OF GOD

Ask the question that if Jesus is Almighty God, why does he acquire the throne of a human king when he would be king of a greater kingdom of heaven?
And, what was the purpose of the creation in terms of mankind, human Beings... was it not to be RULER.. who was that ruler to be... ADAM... but he sinned:

• ‘The first is REMOVED and a SECOND is brought UP to replace him’

Interesting, enlightening, truthful!!

 

[Cooper]

You might believe anything about the trinity... Christianity is not about whether you (or anyone else) believes in a God who is three persons.

However, I do agree that PERHAPS the true faith and belief should have a name different to ‘Christianity’ IF Christianity is defined as ‘Three persons as one God’.

I foolishly call myself a Christian ... forgive me for attempting to modify the name of the Trinity family of beliefs.

As a matter of fact, a moderator on my last forum told me to register myself as ‘Alternative Belief’... I didn’t learn my lesson from then!

You believe trinity is three persons... ok, but I thought we were debating and discussing the God of the Israelites, the God of the Jews... That God is not the same God as the one taught in trinity.

The God of trinity is a strange synergy that is unheard of in all aspects of religious belief. Your God, it is claimed, said that he was:

• ‘[your] One God’

My God is the God expressed in the scriptures who said that he was:

• ‘[Your] ONLY GOD’

The Israelites lived among, or surrounded by, tribes and nations who believed in MANY GODS who oversaw the created (or even Persistent) world in rank orders. A typical number of Gods is three, and further to that, there were Male and Female Gods, with the Male Gods even ’coming down’ into humanity to impregnate human females resulting in children who were hybrid God-Men!
I’m sure you can see the parallel between these and the demon angels who did similar...
Trinity took this concept one step further and claims that their ‘Man-God’ was uniquely non-mingling flesh and spirit, meaning he was 100% God, while also, 100% Man... but though he is ALWAYS 100% so, he often LACKS BEING GOD, and often is a SUPERMAN - BOTH IMPOSSIBLE if he were 100% each unmingled items.
Trinity claims :

• he CHOSE TO NOT KNOW things that GOD KNOWS...
• he CHOSE TO DIE even though GOD cannot die
• he Chose to be a servant to God (Isaiah 42:1) and subdue himself to HIMSELF (God... really? Can God subdue himself... surely he cannot still br God if he is subdued?)

So, which ‘God’ are we REALLY discussing?


Almighty God does not ‘manifest in the flesh’. I can’t understand why you claim knowledge of the scriptures yet fail to read and understand the words:

• ‘No one has seen God at any time’ (John 1:18)
• ‘Not that anyone has seen the Father...’(John 6:46)
• ‘[God/the Father] who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever.’ (Tim 6:26)
• ‘No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.’ (1 John 4:12)
• No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. (1 John 3:6)
  
  
• If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.(1 John 4:20)

You deny these verses? These verses that state that no one has seen God - no one has seen the Father (no one who sins!)

There is only one God who I call the I AM for simplicity. The I AM spoke to Moses in the Old Testament, and Jesus is the I AM in the flesh here on earth. This is how it happened. God, is Spirit. In heaven, we call Him Father. The Holy Spirit came upon Jesus at his baptism. (God in Christ) giving us Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God, and Jesus is God. Only the names are different.

 

[tigger 2]

There is only one God who I call the I AM for simplicity. The I AM spoke to Moses in the Old Testament, and Jesus is the I AM in the flesh here on earth. This is how it happened. God, is Spirit. In heaven, we call Him Father. The Holy Spirit came upon Jesus at his baptism. (God in Christ) giving us Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God, and Jesus is God. Only the names are different.

The 'Great' I AM

The Gospel writers have clearly shown Jesus applying the term ego eimi to himself and meaning “I am the Christ.” Mark 13:6 shows Jesus saying, “I am he [literally just ego eimi, ‘I AM’]” - NEB. The parallel account at Luke 21:8 agrees. But the other parallel account by Matthew shows what Jesus actually meant by the “absolute” ego eimi in those parallel accounts of Mark and Luke: “I am the Messiah” - Matt. 24:5 - NEB.

So we see Jesus using the “absolute” ego eimi at Mark 13:6 and Luke 21:8 (see any interlinear). And Matthew explains that Jesus means “I am the Messiah”! Also see John 8:24, Living Bible - “I am the Messiah,” cf. C. B. Williams and see Jn 4:26; 13:19 (esp. Living Bible, and translations by C. B. Williams and Phillips.) Notice how Jesus admitted to being the Messiah when the Jews decided to kill him: “‘Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?’ ‘I AM [ego eimi],’ said Jesus.” - Mark 14:61-62. Again the ‘absolute’ ego eimi (“I am”) as used by Jesus means “I am the Christ” and spurs the Jews to condemn him to die!

In fact, even some trinitarian scholars have admitted that they believe that Jesus’ statements at John 8:56 and 8:58 are statements proclaiming himself to be the Messiah. Trinitarian scholar William Barclay admits in his popular Daily Study Bible Series:

“So when Jesus said that Abraham had seen his day, he was making a deliberate claim that he was the Messiah. He was really saying ‘I am the Messiah Abraham saw in his vision.’” - p. 35, The Gospel of John, Vol. 2, 1975, The Westminster Press. (Cf. footnote for Jn 8:56 in The New Oxford Annotated Bible, 1973 ed., Oxford University Press.)

The footnote for John 8:58 in the very trinitarian Holy Bible: Easy-to-Read Version says:


“...it can also mean ‘I am he (the Christ).’” - World Bible Translation Center, 1992.

And famous trinitarian scholar Robert Young (Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Holy Bible) in explaining John 8:58 tells us that Jesus was proclaiming himself by these words (ego eimi) to be “the promised Messiah.” - Young’s Concise Critical Bible Commentary, p. 61, 1977 ed., Baker Book House.

When we really analyze the “parallel” (according to some trinitarians) uses of ego eimi by Jesus found in the Gospel of John “which culminate in the ‘I Am’ of John 8:58,” we find they all (and we should start with the very first such instance at Jn 4:26) show Jesus’ identity (as “Jesus” or “the Christ”)! If these are really “parallel” uses of ego eimi by Jesus, as many trinitarians insist, then 8:58 should be understood as “I am [or ‘have been’] the Christ”!

Surely if even the highly trinitarian scholars who translated the Living Bible and CBW can interpret the “absolute” ego eimi at John 8:24 as “I am the Messiah (Christ)” - cf. 8:28, LB, CBW, then it would not only be proper but maybe even probable that it should be so translated again at John 8:58: “Even before Abraham was born, I am the Messiah. Therefore [since he claimed to be the Messiah] they picked up stones to throw at him.”

For much more, including the erroneous 'I Am' at Exodus 3:14, click on the link to my personal study below:

http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/09/i-am-part-1.html

 

[JustAskin]

The great ‘I Am’ is a red herring.

First off, ‘Eigo Eimi’ is GREEK. Jesus wasn’t speaking GREEK. He was speaking in Aramaic.

Second off, In the very next chapter, a man born blind, after being made to see, is asked if he was indeed the same man. He replies, ‘Eigo Eimi’... (translated from Aramaic like with Jesus!)

What should we make of this man... as Trinitarians would say, ‘Calling himself God’.

But, of course, it’s JUST A HUMAN BEING saying, ‘Yes, I Am he whom you speak of’

No one thinks the man is saying he is almighty god...

So why do we think Jesus is calling himself God when ’I Am’ IS ONLY THE MEANING OF the Hebrew NAME of Almighty God ‘YHWH’!!

The MEANING... no one goes around saying to Peter:

• ‘Hey, Rock, how many times did that cockerel crow this morning?’

And no one says that peter is Christ the Lord when they read the verse:

• ‘And the ROCK that followed the Israelites in the wilderness WAS CHRIST’.

Yet we know that the MEANING of the NAME, ‘Peter’ (Cephas) is ‘ROCK’....

It is only desperation that drives people to think such ridiculous ideas.

Jesus was asked by the Jews if he was GREATER than their great Father, Abraham.

Jesus ALWAYS answers with in a spiritual manner. Remember that to him the Jews are ignorant children who, given the Torah to find all the answers, cannot read it and see what is going on right in their sight!

Jesus references the Jewish term, ‘Before x’, to show ‘Greatness’, ‘Prior Authority’, ‘Precedence in position’.

Jesus says that he was ‘BEFORE ABRAHAM’...

This is nothing to do with being ‘ALIVE’ or ‘Already existing’... because, NOTICE THAT IT DOES NOT ANSWER THE JEW’s QUESTION!!!

What Jesus’ answer DOES say is:

• ‘YES, I am greater than (Before) Abraham - I am BEFORE (greater than) him’

Abraham FORESAW in vision the one who would be Saviour, messiah. That this one would come from HIS LOINS... and he was ‘Glad’ that almighty God had PROMISED HIM THIS GREAT PRIVILEGE. ‘And he was glad’.

And having revealed that he WAS that messiah that Abraham had foreseen in vision, the Jews were so angered that the messiah appeared to be JUST AN EVERYDAY JEWISH MAN. Despite the great works Jesus had done in their eyesight and what they had heard, they still refused to believe that he was THAT MESSIAH.

Indeed, how much later was it that Jesus was to be asking them:

• ‘Great works I have shown you from the Father.. for which of these works are you condemning me?’

(Notice that Jesus attributes the great works TO HIS FATHER... to Almighty God’)

Jesus speaks passionately saying to them that if they do not believe that ‘He Is’ the messiah then they will die in their sins... and, in case anyone is thinking that Jesus is saying that they must believe he is almighty God, Jesus tells his disciples in prayer:

• ‘Father, this means eternal life, that they should believe in you, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and in Jesus Christ WHOM YOU SENT’

How can it be believed that Jesus be claiming to be ALMIGHTY GOD (‘I Am’... ‘YHWH’) when he stated emphatically that the ONLY TRYE GOD is his Father!!!

 

[Cooper]

How can it be believed that Jesus be claiming to be ALMIGHTY GOD (‘I Am’... ‘YHWH’) when he stated emphatically that the ONLY TRYE GOD is his Father!!!

Jesus claimed he was God because all things were made by him :-
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made...... (Joh 1:1-3)

And the Word was made flesh (Jesus), and dwelt among us, (Joh 1:14a)

For Jesus to say he is God, is like Cliff Richard saying he is Harry Web. They are.

 

[JustAskin]

Jesus claimed he was God because all things were made by him :-
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made...... (Joh 1:1-3)

And the Word was made flesh (Jesus), and dwelt among us, (Joh 1:14a)

For Jesus to say he is God, is like Cliff Richard saying he is Harry Web. He is.

Ummm... JESUS did not make any of those claims...

It is the trinitarian translators who altered the scriptures, and the Catholic Church under the orders and directives of Emperor Constantine, who made those claims.

In the verse claiming Jesus created all things, it is clear and obvious that the words were altered.

It makes NO SENSE for THE SON to be the creator of the greatest event when the definition of ‘Father’ are (ones of) exactly:

• ‘He who CREATES’
• ‘He who brings into being’
• ‘He that gives life to’

Also, it turns common sense on its head. The Father creates something FOR THE SON... the weirdly worded verse implies that the son made the world FOR HIMSELF...

Yet elsewhere, because alterations of the scriptures cannot go unnoticed, God has put in place facilities to detect and rectify attempts to bring errors and misinterpretations to his word given to us through his son, and his other servants, the disciples and apostles.

And, in fact, even the Catholic Church states that the Father is the creator... so EVEN THEY recognised the scriptural alteration - a MASSIVE ATTEMPT to destroy the integrity of the scriptures.

I know you are just mucking about because you think it’s fun to post nonsense but truly, just in case anyone should believe your misconception:

• Jesus DID NOT MAKE ANY CLAIM to be creator
• Jesus DID NOT MAKE ANY CLAIM to be Almighty God
• Jesus did not claim to be even EQUAL TO GOD
• Jesus did not claim to be pre-existent