This is why most believe that Jesus is a Man/Son and not God.

[Johann]

Are you suggesting God was not being worshiped through his beloved Son? Matthew 5:16

Both, Christ Jesus and the Father.
Don't put words in my mouth.
And I am not suggesting but gave you the scriptures.
J.

 

[Johann]

Do you believe Jesus is a man Johann? That even well after his ascension he is still considered a man? A unique and special man but none the less a man!

You are not even aware that you are promulgating heresy.
J.

 

[Johann]

Content dumping wont work Johann. Start by saying I don't have any Scriptural references to support the doctrine of the incarnation.

Luk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
Luk 1:31 And behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Are you denying this?

Thou shalt . . . bring forth a Son: "Behold the Man".
Thou shalt call His name Jesus: " Behold My Servant".
He shall be great . . . the Son of the Highest (Luk_1:32)
: " Behold your God".
He shall reign, &c. (Luk_1:33)
: " Behold thy King".
JESUS. See note on Mat_1:21 and App-48and App-98. X.
Bullinger.

Theos is used in the N.T. of the Father, as the revealed God (see Joh_1:1. Act_17:24, &c.)
2. It is used of the Son (Mat_1:23. Joh_1:1; Joh_20:28, &c. Rom_9:5. 2Pe_1:1. 1Jn_5:20). Cp. Col_2:9 and 2Pe_1:3; 2Pe_1:4.
3. It is used of the Holy Spirit (Act_5:3-4, compared with v . 4).

J.

 

[Johann]

Start by saying I don't have any Scriptural references to support the doctrine of the incarnation.

Look up virgin and birth and quote the passage where it is found in scriptures.
J.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Just gave it to you, but you cant see it since people are mostly too busy and in general too lazy to read and chew the cud.

J.

It’s not laziness or lack of reading (I don’t think). He has read and has verses to support what he says, that Jesus is Gods Son. And Jesus WAS Gods Son. In His human form, He made Himself nothing, became a servant, was in the position of having to rely completely on God and be obedient and learn the obedience of trust from the things He suffered, just as we have to do. In the human form He took on, He told the truth that the Father was greater than Himself.

You see the OTHER verses also, that He was God. But is this because you have read and he hasn’t? Or is it because it was revealed to you but not to him?

As with everything, there are ditches on either side of the road, as my friend says. He came in the weakness and dependency of flesh AND He was God. But when He took on the form of flesh, He told the truth that the Father was greater.

This is to have the balance and to not have fallen into EITHER ditch. The one ditch is to insist He was only human. The other ditch is to insist He was only God.

 

[Johann]

It’s not laziness or lack of reading (I don’t think). He has read and has verses to support what he says, that Jesus is Gods Son. And Jesus WAS Gods Son. In His human form, He made Himself nothing, became a servant, was in the position of having to rely completely on God and be obedient and learn the obedience of trust from the things He suffered, just as we have to do. In the human form He took on, He told the truth that the Father was greater than Himself.

You see the OTHER verses also, that He was God. But is this because you have read and he hasn’t? Or is it because it was revealed to you but not to him?

As with everything, there are ditches on either side of the road, as my friend says. He came in the weakness and dependency of flesh AND He was God. But when He took on the form of flesh, He told the truth that the Father was greater.

This is to have the balance and to not have fallen into EITHER ditch.

This was a statement, hence, no need for me to reply.
J.

 

[Johann]

This was a statement, hence, no need for me to reply.
J.

You see the OTHER verses also, that He was God. But is this because you have read and he hasn’t?

Just gave him the verses
J.

 

[face2face]

Both, Christ Jesus and the Father.
Don't put words in my mouth.
And I am not suggesting but gave you the scriptures.
J.

You said only God can be worshiped did you not?
God can be worshiped in many ways and if God so wished his sinless son to also receive worship who are you to say otherwise?

 

[Johann]

You said only God can be worshiped did not not?

No, I said BOTH the Father and Christ Jesus ought to receive worship.
J.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Just gave him the verses
J.

Yes, you did. But he can’t see them. And flesh and blood cannot make him see them.

 

[EloyCraft]

[QUOTE="APAK, post: 1325471, member: 7755"]nowhere in scripture that even suggests that Christ today co-occupies God the Father's throne. The expression for being seated at the right of God, his Father, m[/QUOTE]




Rev. 13-8
The River and the Tree of Life
22 Then he showed me a river of the water of life, [a]clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb

• 
  

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You said only God can be worshiped did not not?

It is true that only God is to be worshiped and that He will not share His glory with another.
It is also true that Jesus is worshiped by the resurrected in heaven in the book of Revelation and the angels worship Him too, and that God shares His glory with Jesus.

What are we to make of that?

 

[Johann]

Yes, you did. But he can’t see them. And flesh and blood cannot make him see them.

Hence to be patient.


1Pe 3:15 but sanctify in your hearts Christ as Lord: being ready always to give answer to every man that asketh you a reason concerning the hope that is in you, yet with meekness and fear:
1Pe 3:16 having a good conscience; that, wherein ye are spoken against, they may be put to shame who revile your good manner of life in Christ.
1Pe 3:17 For it is better, if the will of God should so will, that ye suffer for well-doing than for evil-doing.

J.

 

[face2face]

Luk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
Luk 1:31 And behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Are you denying this?

J.

It's not for me to deny but for you to prove that virgin birth = incarnation. As I have said many times if Luke 1:31 is all you have then you have nothing. Jesus was given life in the womb of his mother, so what! Jesus went on to learn wisdom and to grow in the knowledge of God. Luke 2:52.

Jesus was “Strengthened with might, by his spirit in the inner man” Ephesians 3:16 but this is not the incarnation but the learning of God's Word as any person is want to do, yes, his desire was greater than ours and the increase of his wisdom was far superior but in principle, no different. Similar language is spoken of John in Luke 1:80

Did Mary, Jesus and John not all find favour with God?

 

[Johann]

It is true that only God is to be worshiped.
It is also true that Jesus is worshiped in heaven in the book of Revelation and the angels worship Him too.

Jesus received worship in His earthly ministry as well.
J.

 

[face2face]

It is true that only God is to be worshiped.
It is also true that Jesus is worshiped in heaven in the book of Revelation and the angels worship Him too.

Other than you thinking Jesus must be God to be worshiped can you provide a Scriptural reason why this is so?

 

[face2face]

Look up virgin and birth and quote the passage where it is found in scriptures.
J.

1 + 1 doesn't equal 3 Johann. You're making assumptions all over the place with no Biblical support.

 

[Johann]

Jesus was “Strengthened with might, by his spirit in the inner man” Ephesians 3:16

You have your metaphors wrong


Eph 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father,

Eph 3:15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named,

Eph 3:16 that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, that ye may be strengthened with power through his Spirit in the inward man;

Where in this scripture is it said that Jesus should be strengthened?

J.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Hence to be patient.


1Pe 3:15 but sanctify in your hearts Christ as Lord: being ready always to give answer to every man that asketh you a reason concerning the hope that is in you, yet with meekness and fear:
1Pe 3:16 having a good conscience; that, wherein ye are spoken against, they may be put to shame who revile your good manner of life in Christ.
1Pe 3:17 For it is better, if the will of God should so will, that ye suffer for well-doing than for evil-doing.

J.

Yes. And there is a balance in scripture even with this, because He has ALSO said if they won’t listen, shake the dust off your feet as you leave.

 

[face2face]

You have your metaphors wrong

Where in this scripture is it said that Jesus should be strengthened?

J.

Hold on - so you don't believe Jesus learned wisdom? Just need to clarify that error and give you time to recant it.