The wrong gospel

[H. Richard]

It is believed, by many, that the grace church was started by Peter on the day of Pentecost. But if a person looks close all that is written in Acts, spoken by Peter, is to get the Jews (Israel) to accept Jesus as their Messiah and king so that He would return and setup the kingdom that was promised in the covenant God made with Abraham. This covenant was not made to the Gentiles.
-
Even in Acts 8 & 9 where we see Saul being converted it was still time for the Jews to accept Jesus as their king so that He could return and set up the promised kingdom.
-
Luke 13:6-10
The Parable of the Barren Fig Tree 6 He also spoke this parable: "A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none.
7 Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, 'Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?'
8 But he answered and said to him, 'Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it.
9 And if it bears fruit, well. But if not, after that you can cut it down.'"
NKJV
-
God set the Jewish nation and the law of Moses aside and went to the Gentiles when He, in 70 AD, had the Temple destroyed.
-
We see that Saul/Paul was chosen by God to be THE apostle to the Gentiles. His gospel of the grace of God was hidden in God and revealed to him (Paul), not the 12.
-
The 12 were apostles to the Jews. No where in the scriptures do we see Jesus and the 12 rescinding the Law of Moses, yet Paul taught that we are no longer under the Law of Moses and are dead to it. No where in the preaching of Peter, in the book of Acts, do we see any mention of salvation by the shed blood of Jesus on the cross. The reason is very simple. It was not revealed to them until Jesus told it to Paul.
-
Many say that James rescinded the law in Acts 15. But did he really? He said the Gentiles did not have to keep the law but nowhere in Acts 15 did he say the Jews did not have to keep it. If you go up to Acts 21:18-25 you will see that the 12 are still teaching the Jews that they are under the Law of Moses.
-
I believe that if people would REALLY see the words in the scriptures for what they say they would find that the religious have perverted the scriptures to say what they want them to say in order to keep the religious ideas they have. Satan does not want people to believe God’s promises given to Paul. Most of these religious ideas came through the RCC who, in my opinion, built their church on the wrong apostle. If you look close you will see that the RCC has many of the religious rituals performed by the Jews in their Temple worship. The church for this age is built on the writings of the apostle Paul who was sent to the Gentiles by the Son of God, Jesus.
-
Acts 9:13-16 NKJV
13 Then Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem.
14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name."
15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.
16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."
-
Acts 22:20-21 NKJV (Paul talking to Jesus in context)
20 And when the blood of Your martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by consenting to his death, and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him.
21 Then He said to me, 'Depart, for I will send you far from here to the Gentiles.'"
-
Gal 2:9-10 NKJV
9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
10 They desired only that we should remember the poor, the very thing which I also was eager to do.
-
Do the religious churches teach the agreement that was made in Gal 2:9-10 between the 12 and Paul? I think not. Do they teach that, under grace, we are no longer under the law of Moses that was taught by Jesus and the 12 to the Jews? I think not. Do they teach that the whole world will be judged by Paul’s gospel of grace, I think not.
-
Rom 2:16 NKJV (Paul wrote)
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
-
Since Paul said the world will be judged according to his gospel then it would be wise to actually know his gospel.

 

[ewq1938]

God set the Jewish nation and the law of Moses aside and went to the Gentiles when He, in 70 AD, had the Temple destroyed.

No, that happened at the cross. A new covenant was in force and the old was replaced that was better.

Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.


Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

 

[Butch5]

It is believed, by many, that the grace church was started by Peter on the day of Pentecost. But if a person looks close all that is written in Acts, spoken by Peter, is to get the Jews (Israel) to accept Jesus as their Messiah and king so that He would return and setup the kingdom that was promised in the covenant God made with Abraham. This covenant was not made to the Gentiles.
-
Even in Acts 8 & 9 where we see Saul being converted it was still time for the Jews to accept Jesus as their king so that He could return and set up the promised kingdom.
-
Luke 13:6-10
The Parable of the Barren Fig Tree 6 He also spoke this parable: "A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none.
7 Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, 'Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?'
8 But he answered and said to him, 'Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it.
9 And if it bears fruit, well. But if not, after that you can cut it down.'"
NKJV
-
God set the Jewish nation and the law of Moses aside and went to the Gentiles when He, in 70 AD, had the Temple destroyed.
-
We see that Saul/Paul was chosen by God to be THE apostle to the Gentiles. His gospel of the grace of God was hidden in God and revealed to him (Paul), not the 12.
-
The 12 were apostles to the Jews. No where in the scriptures do we see Jesus and the 12 rescinding the Law of Moses, yet Paul taught that we are no longer under the Law of Moses and are dead to it. No where in the preaching of Peter, in the book of Acts, do we see any mention of salvation by the shed blood of Jesus on the cross. The reason is very simple. It was not revealed to them until Jesus told it to Paul.
-
Many say that James rescinded the law in Acts 15. But did he really? He said the Gentiles did not have to keep the law but nowhere in Acts 15 did he say the Jews did not have to keep it. If you go up to Acts 21:18-25 you will see that the 12 are still teaching the Jews that they are under the Law of Moses.
-
I believe that if people would REALLY see the words in the scriptures for what they say they would find that the religious have perverted the scriptures to say what they want them to say in order to keep the religious ideas they have. Satan does not want people to believe God’s promises given to Paul. Most of these religious ideas came through the RCC who, in my opinion, built their church on the wrong apostle. If you look close you will see that the RCC has many of the religious rituals performed by the Jews in their Temple worship. The church for this age is built on the writings of the apostle Paul who was sent to the Gentiles by the Son of God, Jesus.
-
Acts 9:13-16 NKJV
13 Then Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem.
14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name."
15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.
16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."
-
Acts 22:20-21 NKJV (Paul talking to Jesus in context)
20 And when the blood of Your martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by consenting to his death, and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him.
21 Then He said to me, 'Depart, for I will send you far from here to the Gentiles.'"
-
Gal 2:9-10 NKJV
9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
10 They desired only that we should remember the poor, the very thing which I also was eager to do.
-
Do the religious churches teach the agreement that was made in Gal 2:9-10 between the 12 and Paul? I think not. Do they teach that, under grace, we are no longer under the law of Moses that was taught by Jesus and the 12 to the Jews? I think not. Do they teach that the whole world will be judged by Paul’s gospel of grace, I think not.
-
Rom 2:16 NKJV (Paul wrote)
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
-
Since Paul said the world will be judged according to his gospel then it would be wise to actually know his gospel.

Where do you guys get this stuff? Paul and the 12 preached the same Gospel. Paul didn't get some special Gospel that the others didn't. He said,

22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles. (Acts 26:22-23 KJV)

He preached nothing other than what the prophets and Moses said you would. The Gospel going to the Gentiles was foretold in the OT. Paul didn't get a special Gospel that the others didn't. Also Jesus sent the 12 to the Gentiles also.


19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matt. 28:19-20 KJV)

Nations=Ethnos=Gentiles

 

[Angelina]

It is believed, by many, that the grace church was started by Peter on the day of Pentecost. But if a person looks close all that is written in Acts, spoken by Peter, is to get the Jews (Israel) to accept Jesus as their Messiah and king so that He would return and setup the kingdom that was promised in the covenant God made with Abraham. This covenant was not made to the Gentiles.

Well yes it was. The promises made to Abraham was for his descendants and also for the gentile nations. This was before Israel became a nation and before the law came into existence. Galatians 3:8, 9, 13, 14. Ephesians 2:12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20. Ephesians 3:6.

Many say that James rescinded the law in Acts 15. But did he really? He said the Gentiles did not have to keep the law but nowhere in Acts 15 did he say the Jews did not have to keep it. If you go up to Acts 21:18-25 you will see that the 12 are still teaching the Jews that they are under the Law of Moses.

Galatians 3

22 But the Scripture has imprisoned everything under sin’s power, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 Before this faith came, we were confined under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith was revealed. 24 The law, then, was our guardian until Christ, so that we could be justified by faith. 25 But since that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ like a garment. 28 There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, heirs according to the promise.

 

[mjrhealth]

Could also add this bit

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

I would hate to say to Jesus I preffered teh other man

Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

In all His Love

 

[DPMartin]

H Richard

Though it is true Paul is the principal Apostle to the Gentiles, Peter officially preached and taught the Gentiles first. Peter was given charge of the Ministry of Grace and in that capacity he was used by the Lord to bring the Gospel to the Gentiles even to Rome where he was crucified. Though Paul was to be to the Gentiles, he started by doing his diligence to convert the Jews. And after some time was given acceptance into the Ministry of Grace. The cards worked out well for that considering he was partaker in the persecutions and deaths of those already in the Ministry and to most devote Jews Gentiles where lesser beings, unclean if you will. It was more accommodating for all concerned that Paul be out and about amongst the Gentiles, if he is called to serve the Lord in this capacity.

If you are arguing the Catholic point of the catholic church’s right to rule all of Christendom by declaring authority via Peter. Well don’t worry about it. The catholic church isn’t going to let go of that any time soon. That’s been going on ever since the church had interests in consolidating the churches through out the Roman empire during the catholic church’s growth and influence in the empire.

 

[H. Richard]

Let me get this straight in my mind. I say I believe in the word of God (the Bible) but when those words say the following I am supposed to just ignore it;

Eph 3:8-9
8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, """""which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; """"
NKJV

What shall we say then, did Paul lie? Peter did not know that the Gentiles would be included until Jesus gave him a dream several years after Pentecost, so how could he have know it at Pentecost? And if he didn't know it how can anyone say Peter and Paul preached the same gospel? Jesus and the 11 were under the law of Moses and if Paul's gospel was the same as theirs how could Paul say we are no longer under the law but under grace? You can't mix law and grace without destroying both and that is what has happened in the Christian Churches.

 

[H. Richard]

H Richard

Though it is true Paul is the principal Apostle to the Gentiles, Peter officially preached and taught the Gentiles first. Peter was given charge of the Ministry of Grace and in that capacity he was used by the Lord to bring the Gospel to the Gentiles even to Rome where he was crucified. Though Paul was to be to the Gentiles, he started by doing his diligence to convert the Jews. And after some time was given acceptance into the Ministry of Grace. The cards worked out well for that considering he was partaker in the persecutions and deaths of those already in the Ministry and to most devote Jews Gentiles where lesser beings, unclean if you will. It was more accommodating for all concerned that Paul be out and about amongst the Gentiles, if he is called to serve the Lord in this capacity.

If you are arguing the Catholic point of the catholic church’s right to rule all of Christendom by declaring authority via Peter. Well don’t worry about it. The catholic church isn’t going to let go of that any time soon. That’s been going on ever since the church had interests in consolidating the churches through out the Roman empire during the catholic church’s growth and influence in the empire.

I am only in search of the truth as shown in the scriptures and let the chips fall where they might. I am fully aware that those that have been indoctrinated in the RCC and the teaching of the Protestant Churches will not change their minds. I got a shock when I realized that in most all Protestant Churches there are very few sermons taken from Paul's writings concerning the gospel of grace.

Can you show me in the 4 gospels and Acts 1 -8 where the gospel of grace, as Paul taught it is located? Can you show me where Peter and the others said our sins are all paid for by the shed blood of Jesus?

The scriptures that I read say that Paul's gospel of grace did not come from man nor was to taught to him by man.
Gal 1:11-17
11 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.
12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it.
14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb and called me through His grace,
16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles,"""""""" I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood,
17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.""""
NKJV

So we see that Paul's gospel was not taught to Paul by the 11.

 

[H. Richard]

Notice that in Acts 3:21 Peter is proclaiming things made known by the prophets since the world began. In contrast, in the book of Romans, 16:25, Paul is proclaiming things kept secret since the world began. Something made known cannot be a secret and something kept secret has not been made known. Notice that Peter proclaimed the crucifixion of Jesus as something for the Jews to repent of (Acts 2) where Paul proclaimed that he gloried in the cross of Christ (Gal 6:11-15). Clearly, Peter and Paul proclaimed two different messages.

Can anyone tell me why Peter and Paul have a different opinion as to the work of Jesus on the cross?

Can anyone tell me why Paul proclaimed things kept secret since the world began?

It is clear to me that if Satan knew of the gospel of grace he (Satan) would not have let Jesus be crucified on a cross and would not have let His (Jesus') blood be shed.

1 Cor 2:6-8
6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, """the hidden wisdom""" which God ordained before the ages for our glory,
8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
NKJV

 

[DPMartin]

H Richard

Let me get this straight in my mind. I say I believe in the word of God (the Bible) but when those words say the following I am supposed to just ignore it;

Eph 3:8-9
8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, """""which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; """"
NKJV

What shall we say then, did Paul lie? Peter did not know that the Gentiles would be included until Jesus gave him a dream several years after Pentecost, so how could he have know it at Pentecost? And if he didn't know it how can anyone say Peter and Paul preached the same gospel? Jesus and the 11 were under the law of Moses and if Paul's gospel was the same as theirs how could Paul say we are no longer under the law but under grace? You can't mix law and grace without destroying both and that is what has happened in the Christian Churches.

No, you don’t "believe in the word of God (the Bible)", because if you did, then you would agree that the Ministry that Peter was given charge of was administering the Gospel to the gentiles before Saul was at Steven’s stoning.

1: And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.
2: Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
3: Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
4: But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.
Grecians are Greeks in today’s terms and they are Gentiles not Jew or Hebrews, so the apostles were administering the Gospel to the Gentiles first. And since it was Peter that was given charge (Mt:16:18: And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19: And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.). that means he gets credit for bring the Gospel to the Gentiles, before Saul was Paul.

And Jesus told the apostles the Gospel was to go to the world, not just jews. And that was before Paul was called.

Mt:24:14: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mk:16:15: And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mk:13:10: And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
Mk:16:15: And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Scripture doesn’t make other scripture not true. And it seems you don’t understand that what a servant of the Kingdom of God says (apostle) doesn’t take precedence over what the King of the Kingdom of God says (Jesus Christ). Therefore a servant’s statements must serve the will of it’s Lord. Or it’s not a true servant.


But by the evidence in scripture, can it be said you are lying?

 

[H. Richard]

H Richard




No, you don’t "believe in the word of God (the Bible)", because if you did, then you would agree that the Ministry that Peter was given charge of was administering the Gospel to the gentiles before Saul was at Steven’s stoning.

.

And Jesus told the apostles the Gospel was to go to the world, not just jews. And that was before Paul was called.

Mt:24:14: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mk:16:15: And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mk:13:10: And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
Mk:16:15: And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Scripture doesn’t make other scripture not true. And it seems you don’t understand that what a servant of the Kingdom of God says (apostle) doesn’t take precedence over what the King of the Kingdom of God says (Jesus Christ). Therefore a servant’s statements must serve the will of it’s Lord. Or it’s not a true servant.


But by the evidence in scripture, can it be said you are lying?

No, not at all. All of scripture is written for our learning but not all of scripture is written to us for our doctrine under grace. What was written to the Jew was written to the Jews. Most all of Paul's scriptures are written to the ones saved under the gospel of grace; The mystery gospel that was hidden in God and revealed to him (Paul). If a person says it was not a hidden gospel then they deny the scriptures that say it was.

Everything from Abraham to Paul was about the Jews and the Jewish law of Moses. All the 11 Apostles were doing is trying to get the nation of Israel to accept Jesus as their Messiah and King so that He (Jesus) could fulfill the promise of a Jewish kingdom made to the Jewish fathers.. No where did they preach salvation by the grace of God. They were still under the law of Moses. Today no one is saved by the works of the Jewish law of Moses.

If you remember Peter did not know that the Gentiles were to be included until Jesus gave him a dream of unclean foods so he certainly didn't know it on the day of Pentecost and that was after Jesus told them to go into all the world. The Jews will fulfill the command to go into all the world when Jesus returns and sets up the Jewish kingdom. A clue is what you quoted "Mk:13:10: And the gospel must first be published among all nations". It was not published until about the 14th century. And since it had to be published "first" then it would have been impossible for them to do it at that time. However, a person can say 4 of the Apostles did go into all the world through their witness shown in the 4 gospels included in the Bible N.Y.

By the way, you said "But by the evidence in scripture, can it be said you are lying?". Why do you want to say this about me? What does it add to the discussion? Do you really want us to go about making accusations towards one another? Your statement was not called for.

 

[Butch5]

Let me get this straight in my mind. I say I believe in the word of God (the Bible) but when those words say the following I am supposed to just ignore it;

Eph 3:8-9
8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, """""which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; """"
NKJV

What shall we say then, did Paul lie? Peter did not know that the Gentiles would be included until Jesus gave him a dream several years after Pentecost, so how could he have know it at Pentecost? And if he didn't know it how can anyone say Peter and Paul preached the same gospel? Jesus and the 11 were under the law of Moses and if Paul's gospel was the same as theirs how could Paul say we are no longer under the law but under grace? You can't mix law and grace without destroying both and that is what has happened in the Christian Churches.

Did you read what Paul said?

He said he said nothing other than what Moses and the prophets said should come. However, you understand Eph. 3 it must reconcile with this his words here. These words can't just be ignored. There is nothing in Eph 3 that says the others didn't get the mystery revealed to them. Paul's just saying that the mysterywas revealed to him. According to Paul's words here the Gentiles being included was spoken by Moses and the prophets.

6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; (Isa. 42:6 KJV)

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. (Isa. 49:6 KJV)


22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles. (Acts 26:22-23 KJV)



12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees. (Isa. 66:12 KJV)
19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. (Isa. 66:19 KJV)

This is what Paul preached and it's the same thing that the others were aware of.


44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things. (Lk. 24:44-48 KJV)

Both Paul and the 11 had the same Gospel.

 

[H. Richard]

Did you read what Paul said?

He said he said nothing other than what Moses and the prophets said should come. However, you understand Eph. 3 it must reconcile with this his words here. These words can't just be ignored. There is nothing in Eph 3 that says the others didn't get the mystery revealed to them. Paul's just saying that the mysterywas revealed to him. According to Paul's words here the Gentiles being included was spoken by Moses and the prophets.

6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; (Isa. 42:6 KJV)

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. (Isa. 49:6 KJV)


22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles. (Acts 26:22-23 KJV)



12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees. (Isa. 66:12 KJV)
19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. (Isa. 66:19 KJV)

This is what Paul preached and it's the same thing that the others were aware of.


44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things. (Lk. 24:44-48 KJV)

Both Paul and the 11 had the same Gospel.

Can't you read and understand the attitude of the Jews towards the Gentiles. Peter was admonished because he went into a Gentiles house. Peter would never have gone into a Gentile house before Jesus gave him a dream. To do so would have made him unclean. The believing Jews were trying to kill Paul because he was going to the Gentiles. So how can anyone say that the Jews were, at that time a light unto the Gentiles. All of that was prophesied in the scriptures you gave but were for the future when Jesus sets up the Jewish kingdom on this earth.

Your assumption that Paul and the 11 taught the same gospel is just that. Based on the scriptures the believing Jews didn't want anything to do with the Gentiles.

Since you think as you do can you show me in the 4 gospel where Jesus and the 11 said that we are free from the condemnation of the law of Moses as Paul did? Show one place where the 11 said we are saved by the shed blood of Jesus on the cross.

Notice that in Acts 3:21 Peter is proclaiming things made known by the prophets since the world began. In contrast, in the book of Romans, 16:25, Paul is proclaiming things kept secret since the world began. Something made known cannot be a secret and something kept secret has not been made known. Notice that Peter proclaimed the crucifixion of Jesus as something for the Jews to repent of (Acts 2) where Paul proclaimed that he gloried in the cross of Christ (Gal 6:11-15) because it was the power of God unto salvation to all that believe in it.. Clearly, Peter and Paul proclaimed two different messages.

God had a hidden purpose for Jesus' death on the cross. It was “hidden in God” and revealed to Paul on the road to Damascus by Jesus. (Eph 3:9)

 

[StanJ]

It is believed, by many, that the grace church was started by Peter on the day of Pentecost. But if a person looks close all that is written in Acts, spoken by Peter, is to get the Jews (Israel) to accept Jesus as their Messiah and king so that He would return and setup the kingdom that was promised in the covenant God made with Abraham. This covenant was not made to the Gentiles.

Before I get into this I would like to ask you if you support MAD? I like to know where people are coming from.

 

[H. Richard]

Before I get into this I would like to ask you if you support MAD? I like to know where people are coming from.

I don't know anything about "MAD" so how can I support it? I am here to write my opinions as to what I see and believe the scriptures say. That is all I will support.

 

[StanJ]

I don't know anything about "MAD" so how can I support it? I am here to write my opinions as to what I see and believe the scriptures say. That is all I will support.

OK, thanks. MAD stands for Mid Acts Dispensationalists.

Now to your point, what Peter stated, was the confession of who Jesus was. THAT was what the Church would be founded/predicated on, a confession of Jesus as God and Saviour.
Jesus' said himself that He came to minister to the lost sheep of Israel, Matt 15:24, but He appointed Paul to be the Apostle to the Gentiles AND He showed Peter that Gentiles were also to be a part of His NEW covenant. Acts 9 & 10. The NC is for ALL, and as Paul said, their is neither Jew nor Gentile. 1 Cor 12:13

 

[OzSpen]

Before I get into this I would like to ask you if you support MAD? I like to know where people are coming from.

Is this what you mean by MAD? See HERE.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

OK, thanks. MAD stands for Mid Acts Dispensationalists.

Now to your point, what Peter stated, was the confession of who Jesus was. THAT was what the Church would be founded/predicated on, a confession of Jesus as God and Saviour.
Jesus' said himself that He came to minister to the lost sheep of Israel, Matt 15:24, but He appointed Paul to be the Apostle to the Gentiles AND He showed Peter that Gentiles were also to be a part of His NEW covenant. Acts 9 & 10. The NC is for ALL, and as Paul said, their is neither Jew nor Gentile. 1 Cor 12:13

Seems like you could be referring to MAD theology.

 

[H. Richard]

Before I get into this I would like to ask you if you support MAD? I like to know where people are coming from.

Okay, I belief that Jesus came primarily to the Jews to fulfill the promises made to the Jewish fathers with two exceptions of His dealing with a Gentile. -- Everything written in the 4 gospels and the first 7 or 8 chapters in Acts were directed to the Jews in the nation of Israel to show that Jesus was their Messiah and King..

Up until Jesus sent Paul out with a gospel of God's grace all teachings were for those under the Law of Moses, not grace. The book of Acts is a transitional book from law to grace. It is not a book that blends law with grace because they can't be mixed.

So you can say I and a believer in the above.

 

[FHII]

"-Many say that James rescinded the law in Acts 15. But did he really? He said the Gentiles did not have to keep the law but nowhere in Acts 15 did he say the Jews did not have to keep it. If you go up to Acts 21:18-25 you will see that the 12 are still teaching the Jews that they are under the Law of Moses."

I want to comment on this point. The 12 didn't continue to preach the law. Peter struggled with it, but in his latter writings spike of grace as well. John preached it (grace through faith) too. But James the half brother of Jesus. .. not so much.

What you say is true. James did release the gentiles (though he still bound them with a few rules which Paul spoke about but didn't lay on them). But he never extended it to Jewish Christians. God did and Paul did, but James didn't