The world has been “made right” in front of God.
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Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Wow, so people can live in heresy being adversaries to the Lord... and still be right with God as long as they are nice to others?
Scripture does not teach that....
Actually, heresy (false doctrine) is listed as one of the works of the flesh that results in not inherit the kingdom of God
Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
And Jesus teaches that following false doctrine makes on a tare, an servant of the evil one
Light and darkness continuously exist. Anyone whom is teaching that we should hate others shouldn’t be listened too. Discernment is the key, while there may be differentiation between people if we aren’t able to love, even then in the state they are, what good are those who say they love God, yet look down or hate another person.
www.christianityboard.com
Doctrine doesn’t matter as much as love
You could think you have everything so down that you are able to correct others. I don’t try to correct others at-least that is not my intention is to “feel” the need to correct others. The topics that I’ve created over time, may have some wrong things, in there, they may have some right things...
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Will you argue that ALL mankind without exception is ordained to eternal life?
th1b.taylor
Active Member
That makes zero sense to me but neither does temporal son, I find no mention of such in the Holy Words.
th1b.taylor
Active Member
I stand with jaw dropped at these teachings.Light and darkness continuously exist. Anyone whom is teaching that we should hate others shouldn’t be listened too. Discernment is the key, while there may be differentiation between people if we aren’t able to love, even then in the state they are, what good are those who say they love God, yet look down or hate another person.
Doctrine doesn’t matter as much as love
You could think you have everything so down that you are able to correct others. I don’t try to correct others at-least that is not my intention is to “feel” the need to correct others. The topics that I’ve created over time, may have some wrong things, in there, they may have some right things...
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Isn't it odd that you never hear one of the limited atonement people say... "yeah, I was on of the ones the Lord created for no other reason but to burn in hell... he hated me when He created me so He did not choose me for salvation"
Would you deny the truthfulness of the following scripture that the calvinist peoples labor hard to claim these are lies???
Romans 8:29,30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Ephesians 5:1
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children
Romans 1:19-21
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Limited Atonement is FALSE
The Father sovereignly decided to make man in His own Image which is why all men have free will. He said in His Word than we are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29), and we are to be followers of God as dear children (Ephesians 5:1)
God's Word says man is without excuse (Romans 1:20), the grace that brings salvation has come upon all men (Titus 2:11-13)
God's Word says it's not God's will that any perish and He wants all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9), and He has commanded men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30), and has given every man faith (Romans 12:3)
Jesus said if He be lifted up He would draw all men until Himself (John 12:32), and Jesus has tasted of death for every man (Hebrews 2:9)
In light of all these scriptures, we can say for sure that limited atonement taught by John Calvin is false doctrine and is in opposition to what God says.
This is yet another way we know John Calvin was in fact a mouth piece for the devil.
<---- John Calvin's daddy
The Father sovereignly decided to make man in His own Image which is why all men have free will. He said in His Word than we are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29), and we are to be followers of God as dear children (Ephesians 5:1)
God's Word says man is without excuse (Romans 1:20), the grace that brings salvation has come upon all men (Titus 2:11-13)
God's Word says it's not God's will that any perish and He wants all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9), and He has commanded men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30), and has given every man faith (Romans 12:3)
Jesus said if He be lifted up He would draw all men until Himself (John 12:32), and Jesus has tasted of death for every man (Hebrews 2:9)
In light of all these scriptures, we can say for sure that limited atonement taught by John Calvin is false doctrine and is in opposition to what God says.
This is yet another way we know John Calvin was in fact a mouth piece for the devil.
<---- John Calvin's daddy
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
The world has been “made right” in front of God.
Could it be that those in the World who hear have had their understanding of God made right?Reflect on what happened after Adam and Eve sinned.
1.. They went into hiding
2.. They thought God (their friend) was the one to be feared ....yet he brings them gifts (kinda strange considering they expected retribution)
3.. They started to project and blame both each other, the serpent and God.
4.. They had lost their central ability to reason accurately.
5.. They no longer trusted God to care for them.
God was never the problem. It was the way/ how they saw that was the problem. It is still the problem today.
It begs the question, what is it that enables us to see God accurately?
Indeed because of Lord Jesus Christ the sins of the world have been nailed on the Cross and taken away completely.
Since towards His final breath, witnessed by Jews and Gentiles, He did proclaim, saying, "It is accomplished."
Therefore what is the lacking of the world since it's all already done and paid in full for them??
Jesus said to His disciples, that when the Holy Ghost descend on them, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement.
And the world is wrong about sin, because their only sin will be for not believing in Him. (John16:8&9)
Jesus, who is the package combined with the Gospel first preached for repentance and water baptism.
They may repent and become born again, be baptized of water and of the Holy Ghost, for salvation and eternal life for a start.
Then they become an addition to the church, hence disciple further in word/saying/teaching of Lord Jesus Christ in the 4 Gospels combined.
Henceforth, together complete discipleship in the New Testament, and the Old Testament as well. (2Timothy3:16&17)
The final spiritual marriage with Christ, individually are perfect and thorough for every good works
Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ.
Since towards His final breath, witnessed by Jews and Gentiles, He did proclaim, saying, "It is accomplished."
Therefore what is the lacking of the world since it's all already done and paid in full for them??
Jesus said to His disciples, that when the Holy Ghost descend on them, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement.
And the world is wrong about sin, because their only sin will be for not believing in Him. (John16:8&9)
Jesus, who is the package combined with the Gospel first preached for repentance and water baptism.
They may repent and become born again, be baptized of water and of the Holy Ghost, for salvation and eternal life for a start.
Then they become an addition to the church, hence disciple further in word/saying/teaching of Lord Jesus Christ in the 4 Gospels combined.
Henceforth, together complete discipleship in the New Testament, and the Old Testament as well. (2Timothy3:16&17)
The final spiritual marriage with Christ, individually are perfect and thorough for every good works
Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ.
Now as a complete believer, perfect and thorough for every good works, where are one's 'moral' guideline lie??
Definitely the word/teaching/saying of Lord Jesus Christ from Matthew chapter 5, and 3 other Gospels combined one's been disciple in.
Also, Acts to Revelation is also of Christ, a 'moral' guideline disciple as an 'assembly', which meet from time to time in 'togetherness' and 'oneness'.
For Holy Ghost does not represent Himself but Christ, will pint point as a reminder and stir up of memory, from 'these' been disciple in.
Again and again, as a 'doer' and 'abider' in them who must bear fruit, which moral guideline one have fallen short, hence in 'lawlessness' or 'iniquity'.
Since 'lawlessness' is 'sin', one is to confess them to GOD, and start over once again making it right and perfect in one's lifetime.
Therefore, one who do not workout their own salvation in fear and trembling by these 'guide lines' and 'ignore', and follow another perhaps.
One merely accumulates trouble for oneself on judgement day, violating King Jesus' given and made decree, result to 'lawless' or 'iniquity'.
As He prophesied beforehand, many on that day He will declare for them to depart from Him, workers of 'lawlessness' or 'iniquity'.
Shalom in the name of Messiah Jesus
Definitely the word/teaching/saying of Lord Jesus Christ from Matthew chapter 5, and 3 other Gospels combined one's been disciple in.
Also, Acts to Revelation is also of Christ, a 'moral' guideline disciple as an 'assembly', which meet from time to time in 'togetherness' and 'oneness'.
For Holy Ghost does not represent Himself but Christ, will pint point as a reminder and stir up of memory, from 'these' been disciple in.
Again and again, as a 'doer' and 'abider' in them who must bear fruit, which moral guideline one have fallen short, hence in 'lawlessness' or 'iniquity'.
Since 'lawlessness' is 'sin', one is to confess them to GOD, and start over once again making it right and perfect in one's lifetime.
Therefore, one who do not workout their own salvation in fear and trembling by these 'guide lines' and 'ignore', and follow another perhaps.
One merely accumulates trouble for oneself on judgement day, violating King Jesus' given and made decree, result to 'lawless' or 'iniquity'.
As He prophesied beforehand, many on that day He will declare for them to depart from Him, workers of 'lawlessness' or 'iniquity'.
Shalom in the name of Messiah Jesus
Thank you for commenting Fred.
From what I have come to understand God talk through the aspect of nature he has created, on the conscious, through the law, through Christ, and through the spirit.
From what I have come to understand God talk through the aspect of nature he has created, on the conscious, through the law, through Christ, and through the spirit.
Didn't you argue that mankind was created with a free will? Scripture tells us that everything God created was "good"! Since man was created good, just as God has said they were, why attribute the fact that some will suffer eternal wrath to God? Did God force Adam & Eve to disobey Him and sin by eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Or did man of their own free will choose to heed the voice of deception and disobey God? Isn't the reason that some of mankind shall suffer eternal damnation because they willfully refuse to turn to God to be saved?
God doesn't choose or better said, ordain some of mankind to damnation! Rather He chooses to eternally save whosoever, that mankind shall not wholly or completely be eternally damned. It is by saving some of mankind that the whole world (creation) is saved.
I inform my understanding of Sovereign God through what is written in His Holy Word, not what is written by John Calvin.
Which does Scripture teach us, (1) That ALL of humanity shall be eternally saved, or (2) that only those who believe in Christ according to grace through faith shall be eternally saved? If only those who believe in Christ, clearly atonement of mankind is limited to believers. When we read the Bible as a whole without allowing our biases to be interjected into the Word of God, we must honestly conclude for ourselves (not Calvin) that some of mankind are utterly lost through their own free will and shall be cast into the eternal flames on Judgment Day!
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We either understand that atonement according to God's grace through faith in Christ is limited to those who believe, or we must embrace universalism! Are you a universalist? Are you of those who deny there shall be a judgment day when whosoever's name is not found written in the Lamb's Book of Life shall be eternally condemned by God?
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
No, I did not argue that. God's Word teaches that so those in opposition can argue with the Lord if they'd like.
You missed it... hang in there bud, maybe you'll get it some day.
You missed it again... you should read John 3:16
Just because most choose to reject the Lord does not mean the Lord has not provided a pathway for ALL to have salvation.
You may claim to not follow John Calvin's fake "gospel" but this shows you have been influenced by his false doctrine.
And, WHERE did I ever say those that reject the Lord are going to be saved?
You missed it yet again!
Why would I argue against that which is biblical? I was merely acknowledging what you believe without arguing I am against it.
Not sure what it is you think I missed, but I see you did NOT answer the query! Did you not understand the question?
Once again, I'm not sure what you think I might have missed???
Let's quote John 3 with a little greater context to make sure we both not only understand but also both believe it.
John 3:15-19 (KJV) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Clearly only those from among humankind that believe in Christ shall not perish but have eternal life. That doesn't mean that God has provided a way of salvation only for SOME of mankind. Because John has written though the world has been condemned, the world through Christ MIGHT be saved IF one believes. For the one who does believe on Him is not condemned with the world, only those who do NOT believe in the Son of God. What is this condemnation? That the Son of God, the Light and Life of the world (whole creation) has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than Light. Is that only SOME men or ALL men? Not only SOME, but ALL, because the deeds of all of mankind is evil.
The Scripture shows us "Romans 3:10-11 (KJV) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
If no man seeks for God, turning to Christ according to grace through faith for eternal life, then how shall any man overcome the condemnation of God that has come upon the whole world? Who, of their own free will while still in unbelief will turn to the Light of Christ to be eternally saved? Only those given to Christ by the Father. Through those whom God chose to save IN Christ from before the foundation of the world. It is according to the grace of God through faith that they shall believe in Christ for everlasting life and the world has been saved through them. If God had not by grace through faith saved some of mankind, then all of mankind along with the whole world would be condemned forever!
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