The Word

[pia]

When one casts doubt on the Jesus Christ, that He is not the Lord and Saviour of the world, should I believe them?

I sure didn't believe it before, and I doubt anyone could have made me...I had a lovely girlfriend, who was converted half way through the years we knew each other, and even that didn't do a thing for me.......I did doubt, but thanks to what He was wonderful enough to do for me, I was 100% convinced of Him, and by that obviously also God, because if Jesus was real, as real now as He had been two thousand years ago, then He was indeed that Resurrected man and therefore God had to be the absolute truth also....that is, the God of the Hebrews........
I think it is marvelous that some can get to know Him as well as they do through the Bible, I also learned so much to ask Him about from it, things I had never even heard of.... I have just come across many, however, who just think they do, because they can quote all the scriptures....
I am fully aware Stranger, that I cannot make my experiences real for you or for anyone else, all I am trying to pass on, are a few things He has shown or taught me AND that He is THAT real, and anyone of us, can reach out to Him and have a living relationship with Him a truly Loving relationship, which then makes it much easier to Love others...

 

[pia]

Again, your claim for rejecting the Bible as the written Word of God is inconsistent with your claim of what the Word of God is.

The Word of God is Christ....His Word is alive and powerful, not dead and long ago written ( although Truth is always Truth)...To call a physical object, formed by mans hands The Word of God, is astonishing to me ? How that ever became so is a mystery to me...Are you aware there were originally 22 or 24 gospels, so did they throw out The word of God along the way too ? do you believe God would have allowed that, if it had been His Living Word ?
Jn 1:1....In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God....2) All things were made through Him and without Him nothing was made"...........Can you substitute the word Bible in place of His Word here ?
There are a great many benefit in reading the Bible, as we come from not knowing anything, so it helps us to know what to Ask Him, what to Seek Him for and how to receive the precious gifts He has for us.
If the Bible had been the 'be all and end all' of Christianity, and about God, most assuredly Jesus would have told us to wait until God had put His Words into writing, so we could follow after that in stead of His Holy Spirit, who He was kind enough to send to us, once He was with The Father....There would have no doubt been many references to it, even the Apostles writing about how they are getting there, with putting the book together....but this is not what we find, anywhere....Revelation seems to be the exception.....Here we are informed that John WAS instructed to write this down, and to pass on the letters to THE Church ( the believers) in which ever city, but that is the only one. Also I do not see it as beneficial that we constantly try to mix the old covenant with the new, somehow trying to mesh the two into one....I seem to recall Jesus having something to say about that in the Bible, but still religion insist upon this....

 

[Stranger]

I sure didn't believe it before, and I doubt anyone could have made me...I had a lovely girlfriend, who was converted half way through the years we knew each other, and even that didn't do a thing for me.......I did doubt, but thanks to what He was wonderful enough to do for me, I was 100% convinced of Him, and by that obviously also God, because if Jesus was real, as real now as He had been two thousand years ago, then He was indeed that Resurrected man and therefore God had to be the absolute truth also....that is, the God of the Hebrews........
I think it is marvelous that some can get to know Him as well as they do through the Bible, I also learned so much to ask Him about from it, things I had never even heard of.... I have just come across many, however, who just think they do, because they can quote all the scriptures....
I am fully aware Stranger, that I cannot make my experiences real for you or for anyone else, all I am trying to pass on, are a few things He has shown or taught me AND that He is THAT real, and anyone of us, can reach out to Him and have a living relationship with Him a truly Loving relationship, which then makes it much easier to Love others...

Your conversion, like your friends, like all who are believers in Christ is the result of a miraculous work of God and Christ. Such a work by God does not require the Bible to not be the written Word of God. That one can have a relationship with Christ and God through the Holy Spirit in them, does not require that the Bible is not the written Word of God.

I don't discount your 'experiences'. I question your experience being from God when your experience or spirit is telling you the Bible is not the written Word of God.

Jesus said 'it is written'. (Matt. 4:4,7,10) And, when He was resurrected He said, (Luke 24:44-46) "And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the Psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the Scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:"

See? Jesus opened their understanding in the 'Scriptures'. Why? Because the Scriptures are the written Word of God. But pia says they are not. Pia's experiences are to be believed more than the Scriptures.

If the spirit you are listening to is telling you the Scriptures are not the written Word of God, then that is not the Spirit of Christ. That is the spirit of him who says, 'yea hath God said'. No ones experiences trump the written Word of God.

Stranger

 

[mjrhealth]

I'm not going to correct you or convince you. I just share that it is actually the other way around. The written words do not need to be quickened as they are already with the Holy Spirit and are alive.

So you say

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Joh 5:41 I receive not honour from men.

There is no life in the bible , these forums are testament to that, Life is in Christ alone, and God certainly does not need the bible to reach any one, Even a mute deaf and blind man can learn from God , never seeing, or hearing one, yet mens study it for years and still dont have the truth. That is the sadness of it all. Why would a man go to teh one who is the truth when he carries god in his pocket.

 

[Stranger]

The Word of God is Christ....His Word is alive and powerful, not dead and long ago written ( although Truth is always Truth)...To call a physical object, formed by mans hands The Word of God, is astonishing to me ? How that ever became so is a mystery to me...Are you aware there were originally 22 or 24 gospels, so did they throw out The word of God along the way too ? do you believe God would have allowed that, if it had been His Living Word ?
Jn 1:1....In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God....2) All things were made through Him and without Him nothing was made"...........Can you substitute the word Bible in place of His Word here ?
There are a great many benefit in reading the Bible, as we come from not knowing anything, so it helps us to know what to Ask Him, what to Seek Him for and how to receive the precious gifts He has for us.
If the Bible had been the 'be all and end all' of Christianity, and about God, most assuredly Jesus would have told us to wait until God had put His Words into writing, so we could follow after that in stead of His Holy Spirit, who He was kind enough to send to us, once He was with The Father....There would have no doubt been many references to it, even the Apostles writing about how they are getting there, with putting the book together....but this is not what we find, anywhere....Revelation seems to be the exception.....Here we are informed that John WAS instructed to write this down, and to pass on the letters to THE Church ( the believers) in which ever city, but that is the only one. Also I do not see it as beneficial that we constantly try to mix the old covenant with the new, somehow trying to mesh the two into one....I seem to recall Jesus having something to say about that in the Bible, but still religion insist upon this....

I have never said Christ is not the living Word. Of course He is. Scripture is clear. That doesn't require that the Bible be not the written Word of God. The Bible is the work of God. It is miraculous in it's origin being God breathed. That God used man to write it doesn't take away from it being from Him. The only Gospels that are of God are the four we have in the Bible.

(John 1:1) is speaking about the Personification of the Word of God, Who is Jesus Christ. Why would I need to substitute the word Bible in it. I believe what it says.

If the Bible is not from God, is not the written Word of God, how can you trust it to teach you anything about God? So, what are you now saying?

Who said the Bible is the 'all and end all' of Christianity? I didn't. See my above post and read once again (Luke 24:44-46) for what Jesus would have us do.

So, since you say Revelation was commanded by Christ to be written down, is it the written Word of God?

Concerning all of the Old Testament, (Luke 24:44-46) should be sufficient to prove to you that Old Testament is the written Word of God.

Concerning Paul's epistles, Peter declares them to be the written Word of God. (2 Peter 3:16) "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

Paul declares the work of Luke to be the Word of God as he quotes from the Old Testament and Luke, declaring both as Scripture. (1 Tim. 5:18) "For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward."

Etc. etc. etc. But, that is enough for you to deny.

How is declaring the Bible the written Word of God mixing the Old and New Covenant?

What benefit do you get in denying the Bible as the written Word of God? Does it upset the spirit you listen to? Is that the benefit?

Stranger

 

[mjrhealth]

What benefit do you get in denying the Bible as the written Word of God?

And what benefit do you get from declaring it is, except that you get to have people sit around your feet,

Mat 19:13 Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
Mat 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.


but the teachers, the lawyers , the religious, the pharisees all want them for themselves and so keep His children from Him.

Mat_23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

and this bit

Exo_8:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, Go unto Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Let my people go, that they may serve me.

but teh religious want Gods people to serve after man

Exo_8:32 And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go.

there is nothing new under the sun.

 

[bbyrd009]

You deny every Scripture that declares the Bible to be the Word of God. So, don't say you don't.

ah, what Scripture is that? You never Quoted these when i asked, and you can't do it now, Stranger.
And the first Quote of "and the Word of the Lord came to ________" blows your theory out of the water.
The Bible is not the Word, and the Bible will even tell you It is not the Word.

Again, what benefit is it to you to believe the Bible is not the written Word of God?

one gets to not be a hypocrite, first off, and also they might then actually find Word, which of course you cannot do this if you believe you have already found Word right, when you have not.

 

[bbyrd009]

When the benefits of believing that Bible is Word are obvious, to anyone with ears.
You now get to set yourself up as arbitrator, due to your belief in your own supremacy and interpreting skills.
Sure, you'll never hear the Word that way, but then you weren't seeking that anyway right

oh and also all give-and-take conversations about the Bible are now over, too, right; you become the only one capable to interpret "Word" in the process

 

[bbyrd009]

better to let the deceived think Bible is Word i guess, and just see what you will see
he literally cannot hear you anyway

 

[bbyrd009]

You are repeating yourself and, no, you have not heard what I said. It did not fit your pattern so it was water off a duck's back. It is not the general logic of man but it is the logic of Stranger and without it apparently no one can do a thing. Even God is bound by your rules as you put it. I guess we are finished here as you cannot hear me and you have nothing new to say.

ya...you were never having a convo anyway, i guess

 

[amadeus]

ya...you were never having a convo anyway, i guess

Sometimes we keep on wanting to try. Is it my flesh pushing me or is it God saying he needs to be given another opportunity. Hmmm?

 

[bbyrd009]

Sometimes we keep on wanting to try. Is it my flesh pushing me or is it God saying he needs to be given another opportunity. Hmmm?

well i guess someone else might always benefit too :)

 

[amadeus]

well i guess someone else might always benefit too :)

Truly. Others sometimes read.

 

[pia]

But pia says they are not.

I merely passed on His reply to me, after asking and seeking Him about, why different churches and teachers taught passages from the Bible in different manners.
The words in the Bible referred to as 'scripture' is no doubt the words heard by prophets and then written....But there are many other things within the pages of the Bible, which are clearly not written by prophets and some are most certainly mans heart crying out to our Father at times to get answers.
Anyhow Jesus also said to the ones with Him :" You search the scriptures daily, because in them you think you will find life...But you refuse to come to Me......."
If you really want to scoff at His reply, I suggest you yourself seek Him, with an open heart and mind, realizing that we don't know nearly as much as we all think we do, and await a reply for yourself...
I think often it is forgotten, that we are supposed to be seeking to KNOW God as we are KNOWN by Him....None of which I could have told anyone apart from what happened to me...You don't have to believe me, you don't even know me....but at least take what He said, and check with Him....Shouldn't Truth revealed be our goal ? That also goes for getting to know Him, not by what someone else thought of Him or experienced with Him, but the Truth of Him revealed to each believer , as they are willing and able to bear it....Not everyone likes the idea of Him being with them at all times :)

 

[pia]

If the Bible is not from God, is not the written Word of God, how can you trust it to teach you anything about God? So, what are you now saying

I take what it says before Him, and then I await the word from Him about it, no matter how quick or how long it takes the answer to come.....That's all.....I did mention to you before that I have been astonished many times, by finding things in the Bible, that He had told me before I got a Bible...So of course I do believe it to be about our God, why else would I even bother reading it.....But because I saw that He is not limited to the Bible, I don't want Him to be limited in my life..

 

[kit]

Man, sometimes I read these threads and start to wonder if I should actually be in the newbies section even though I wouldnt consider myself a new Christian, lol. Lots of thoughts and stances I havent considered before!

I was raised on the "spiritual disciplines" including Scripture study and meditation, including meditation on Scripture. To my understanding the disciplines are based on what we observe Jesus doing in the Gospel.

The New Testament has been central and vital to my faith. I, largely, take it to be written by human inclination as inspired by the spirit and the mysteries of Christ. I believe the New Testament is incredibly important and that in concert with the other spiritual disciplines, the Scripture finds a place within a larger experience of seeking Christ.

I dont even know if my post even contributes anything or is even part of this conversation, sorry if this was out of place. Just trying to get in the fray with all you very interesting thinkers!

 

[mjrhealth]

Man, sometimes I read these threads and start to wonder if I should actually be in the newbies section even though I wouldnt consider myself a new Christian, lol. Lots of thoughts and stances I havent considered before!

I was raised on the "spiritual disciplines" including Scripture study and meditation, including meditation on Scripture. To my understanding the disciplines are based on what we observe Jesus doing in the Gospel.

The New Testament has been central and vital to my faith. I, largely, take it to be written by human inclination as inspired by the spirit and the mysteries of Christ. I believe the New Testament is incredibly important and that in concert with the other spiritual disciplines, the Scripture finds a place within a larger experience of seeking Christ.

I dont even know if my post even contributes anything or is even part of this conversation, sorry if this was out of place. Just trying to get in the fray with all you very interesting thinkers!

your picture says it all,

Mar 10:13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.
Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

Its where you should be in frono of your teacher learning from Him, religion and studying will keep you from Him. Would you rather "TRY" to show God how clever you are or learn how amazing He is????

 

[Stranger]

I merely passed on His reply to me, after asking and seeking Him about, why different churches and teachers taught passages from the Bible in different manners.
The words in the Bible referred to as 'scripture' is no doubt the words heard by prophets and then written....But there are many other things within the pages of the Bible, which are clearly not written by prophets and some are most certainly mans heart crying out to our Father at times to get answers.
Anyhow Jesus also said to the ones with Him :" You search the scriptures daily, because in them you think you will find life...But you refuse to come to Me......."
If you really want to scoff at His reply, I suggest you yourself seek Him, with an open heart and mind, realizing that we don't know nearly as much as we all think we do, and await a reply for yourself...
I think often it is forgotten, that we are supposed to be seeking to KNOW God as we are KNOWN by Him....None of which I could have told anyone apart from what happened to me...You don't have to believe me, you don't even know me....but at least take what He said, and check with Him....Shouldn't Truth revealed be our goal ? That also goes for getting to know Him, not by what someone else thought of Him or experienced with Him, but the Truth of Him revealed to each believer , as they are willing and able to bear it....Not everyone likes the idea of Him being with them at all times :)

(John 5:39) "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life"

This quote from Christ is to those who had the Scripture but rejected Christ. Herein lies your and others problem. You look at those who believe the Bible is the written Word of God as rejecting Jesus Christ. Ridiculous. Jesus was not saying that at all. He is saying if you believed the Bible then you would come to Me. For the Bible testifies of Me. Which meant they didn't really believe the Scripture.

The believer sees the Bible as the written Word of God and Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour as the Bible testifies.

All you speak of in searching to know more about God is great. No problem. Denial of the Bible as the Word of God as a pre-requisite to find God is not required.

Which brings me back to my question. What benefit is it to you to deny the Bible as the written Word of God? I seek God, and believe the Bible as the Word of God. I have the Holy Ghost also. I have a Spiritual life also. What do you get out of denying the Bible as the Word of God that I don't.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

I take what it says before Him, and then I await the word from Him about it, no matter how quick or how long it takes the answer to come.....That's all.....I did mention to you before that I have been astonished many times, by finding things in the Bible, that He had told me before I got a Bible...So of course I do believe it to be about our God, why else would I even bother reading it.....But because I saw that He is not limited to the Bible, I don't want Him to be limited in my life..

I showed you in post #103 that Jesus said the written Scripture is the Word of God. Why should you even have to ask. When Scripture says Jesus Christ is the Son of God and faith in Him brings salvation, do you need to take it to Him and ask if that is true? It is enough for Christ to say, 'It is written'. But it is not enough for you and others.

If the Scripture is about God but not written by God it is useless. Why? Because you have no standard by which to test everything. You have only people like you who must trust whatever voice they are hearing and guess how many voices that is going to turn out to be? And that sets you up as sole determiner as to what is of God and what is not.

One can have questions about what is being said in the Bible, can not understand all that is in the Bible, can take these things before God to seek understanding, and still recognize the Bible as the written Word of God. Why reject the Bible as the Word of God? What benefit do you get out of it?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Man, sometimes I read these threads and start to wonder if I should actually be in the newbies section even though I wouldnt consider myself a new Christian, lol. Lots of thoughts and stances I havent considered before!

I was raised on the "spiritual disciplines" including Scripture study and meditation, including meditation on Scripture. To my understanding the disciplines are based on what we observe Jesus doing in the Gospel.

The New Testament has been central and vital to my faith. I, largely, take it to be written by human inclination as inspired by the spirit and the mysteries of Christ. I believe the New Testament is incredibly important and that in concert with the other spiritual disciplines, the Scripture finds a place within a larger experience of seeking Christ.

I dont even know if my post even contributes anything or is even part of this conversation, sorry if this was out of place. Just trying to get in the fray with all you very interesting thinkers!

The Bible, both Old and New Testament is the written Word of God. If it is only the word of men, of what value is it? None. (2 Tim. 3:16)

Stranger