The Way/Theosis/entire sanctification.

[Runningman]

Which one is right then?

Much love!

After much change he must have reached a point where he isn't changing anymore.

 

[marks]

After much change he must have reached a point where he isn't changing anymore.

I guess if that works for you . . .

Much love!

 

[Christian Soldier]

My argument has never been nor ever will be that God is confused and contradicting himself. I believe you have wrongly come to that conclusion, like so many others have, because you will never change, as you have already confessed, therefore you can't be wrong. Essentially, you have made me a scape goat who is calling God wrong. Shameful. In any case, the Scripture is there when/if anyone feels like believing what the Bible says.

Before you can believe what the bible says, you need to discern what it is saying. You can't believe something until you understand what it is saying.
It's very easy to say, "I believe what the bible says". The problem with that is there are 47,300 Christian denominations, each with their own different interpritation of what the bible is saying.
They all say exactly what you say, while they all contradict each other. So according to your logic they are all right, even though they all believe they have it right and everyone else is wrong. This is the height of arrogance and foolishness.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Brother, I have explained what I believe John to be saying.

I also explained about God’s seed?

There is no point discussing any further..unless of course you can explain the meaning of..Being Born Of God’s seed?

What does his seed abides in him mean? I’ve posted that part in bold and underlined it for you.

Here is said scripture.

​

◄ 1 John 3 ►

​

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Children of God 1Behold what manner of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God. And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know Him. 2Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears,a we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is. 3And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as Christ is pure.b 4Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness as well. Indeed, sin is lawlessness.c 5But you know that Christ appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him. 7Little children,d let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous.e 8The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil. 9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

No, you never explained why you don't believe what Gods Word says in John, about a born again Christian still being a sinner.

I don't know who the elect of God (born again Christians) are, so I will only speak for myself. I was born of the seed of the Serpent (Satan) and I lived to serve sin and Satan, until God slew me and I died to self, then He put His seed in me and I was quickened to life and regenerated as a new creature.

So, yes the seed of God is in me but it hasn't bloomed yet, because I still retain the body of death. When this body of death, and all the works I sowed to it are finally burned up, then I will be sinless like Christ. Until then, I will have to deal with sin every single day for the rest of this life.

If you don't believe this, then please show me a single scripture which supports your vie and I will join you in your denomination.

 

[Runningman]

Before you can believe what the bible says, you need to discern what it is saying. You can't believe something until you understand what it is saying.
It's very easy to say, "I believe what the bible says". The problem with that is there are 47,300 Christian denominations, each with their own different interpritation of what the bible is saying.
They all say exactly what you say, while they all contradict each other. So according to your logic they are all right, even though they all believe they have it right and everyone else is wrong. This is the height of arrogance and foolishness.

People don't have the benefit of asking the writers questions about what they meant. So that is why there are over 47K denominations, sub-denominations, sects, and cults who all attach their beliefs to the Bible. Everyone is simply interpreting what they think it's saying. Some can be correct about some things, wrong about other things, but probably very few, if any, have it completely right. Since we can't just ask them what they meant then, outside of some kind of divine revelation, most people are just going to stay in the dark about what it's all about. I do firmly believe the Bible from cover to cover should never contradict itself. If one can manage to rightly divide the entire book without contradictions then they may be possibly closer to what the message was intended to be. I believe it's best to begin with the explicit things first and build on those, but even those things may very well have meant to only be applied in a specific context rather than in the most general sense. Better for people to be true to their convictions. I think that's about as good as it can get right now.

 

[Christian Soldier]

No to what?

Yes I did, I will find my post to you and post it again.

I did explain about John..further up.

You have just voiced your opinion how you believe you were Born Again..

None of your opinion is Biblical...

Could you please answer my question that I asked, I’m trying to understand you...the seed remains in us, what seed and where does it permanently remain?

I’m not looking for an argument ..I’m trying to discuss...you keep saying NO, without any reasoning as of to why you say NO....the discussion is a two way discussion...not a one way discussion.

We are Born Of God’s seed..a Born Again does not sin because they have been of Gods seed.you have repeatedly denied this word of God.

I don't remember where you corrected God, when He said that those who say they have no sin are liars and I don't remember where you corrected God, when He said He is faithful to forgive your sins if you confess them to Him.

I do remember you rejecting Gods Word and telling me that I took what He said out of context and that he really didn't mean what He said.

Which part of my opinion is unbiblical????????, see you can't reject sound doctrine without a reason. That's something you do consistently and every time I ask you for a reason, you fail to give me one.

There is no actual seed to speak of, that verse was spoken in a parabolic language, so you need to have the gift of discernment to understand it, otherwise it's just foolishness. Same goes for where the seed permanently remains, there is no actual seed so there is no actual physical place for it to remain. These are spiritual things, so they must be understood as such.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Not true, those are your words...the seed of God abideth in us?

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

How can I discuss with you, if you keep denying Gods word?

Please address what I post..instead of this NO business you keep doing all over this thread..otherwise there is no point..as imo you aren’t listening to a single word anyone is saying.



A Born Again does not sin because they have been Born of Gods seed.

Please address this scripture, where God says a Born Again does not sin because they have been Born Of God’s seed....to which you said this....CS saidNo, God says you were not born of His seed....RJ..says....then I will gladly discuss what I believe Paul to be saying here below....everything that is said in this scripture is up for interpretation...which I look forward to discussing both scriptures with you.

[8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1 John 3​

​

King James Version​

​

​

3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

How do you expect to learn anything while you blatantly reject what God said about you; Eph 2:1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins. God said you were dead but you say no God????????????

I sin but I don't "commit sin" and I "cannot sin", because all of my past present and future sins have already been paid for. That's why I don't sin, even when I sin. This is a bit deep for you but if you study the scriptures diligently you will find this truth for yourself.

So, with all due respect, I must reject your doctrine as false because you're trying to convince me that God contradicts Himself and tells lies.

 

[Ritajanice]

How do you expect to learn anything while you blatantly reject what God said about you; Eph 2:1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins. God said you were dead but you say no God????????????

I sin but I don't "commit sin" and I "cannot sin", because all of my past present and future sins have already been paid for. That's why I don't sin, even when I sin. This is a bit deep for you but if you study the scriptures diligently you will find this truth for yourself.

So, with all due respect, I must reject your doctrine as false because you're trying to convince me that God contradicts Himself and tells lies.

I have posted scripture.

You have evaded all of my questions.,,you don’t know when you were Born Again...and yet here you are preaching about sin..

How can anyone converse with you, when all you do is not listen.

A Born Again doesn’t sin because they have been Born of Gods seed?

Please explain what that means as it’s biblical?

If you don’t understand that scripture..then you aren’t in a position to keep telling me that I sin.

 

[Christian Soldier]

So please show me that in the word?

I knew exactly when my journey began in the Spirit Of God.

The evening I became Born Again.

I never became born again. I'm being born again everyday. Being born again is not a one time deal, it's a life long process.

John 3:8 "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit"

God aid you don't know where the wind comes from and where it goes, but you say "No God, I know where it comes from and where it goes". You contradict everything God says.

 

[Christian Soldier]

People don't have the benefit of asking the writers questions about what they meant. So that is why there are over 47K denominations, sub-denominations, sects, and cults who all attach their beliefs to the Bible. Everyone is simply interpreting what they think it's saying. Some can be correct about some things, wrong about other things, but probably very few, if any, have it completely right. Since we can't just ask them what they meant then, outside of some kind of divine revelation, most people are just going to stay in the dark about what it's all about. I do firmly believe the Bible from cover to cover should never contradict itself. If one can manage to rightly divide the entire book without contradictions then they may be possibly closer to what the message was intended to be. I believe it's best to begin with the explicit things first and build on those, but even those things may very well have meant to only be applied in a specific context rather than in the most general sense. Better for people to be true to their convictions. I think that's about as good as it can get right now.

I appreciate your honesty here, and I don't think it's all that important to poses the correct interpretation of the scriptures. God is not impressed with our intelligence or wisdom, He's all wise so He doesn't need us to add ours to His, in order to save us.
God saves His Elect, regardless of if they have ever read the bible or not. He's not limited by how much we sin or anything we have done or not done. He operates outside of our realm and He is a mystery and it's utterly foolish to limit Him to our expectations of who He is and what He does or doesn't do.

The vast majority of His people have never read a single verse of scripture, most of them never even owned or saw a bible. So, lets not pretend that God is playing our trivial game, where denominations tell their sheep that there is no salvation outside of their denomination.

 

[Christian Soldier]

I have posted scripture.

You have evaded all of my questions.,,you don’t know when you were Born Again...and yet here you are preaching about sin..

How can anyone converse with you, when all you do is not listen.

A Born Again doesn’t sin because they have been Born of Gods seed?

Please explain what that means as it’s biblical?

If you don’t understand that scripture..then you aren’t in a position to keep telling me that I sin.

I have asked you to show me where the bible says that we all know when we were born again. I was born again over many years, so it was a long labor, some births are quick and some slow. IO don't understand why you're having trouble understanding this simple truth.

You have posted scripture and twisted it's interpretation to support a false doctrines. And you don't like being corrected, God said a wise person loves you for correcting them but a fool hates you for it.

A born again sins everyday for the rest of his life, God said it and I believe it but you reject Gods Word.

I know that you sin everyday 100% without any doubt at all and God is on my side because He said you're a liar if you deny it.

 

[Ritajanice]

I have asked you to show me where the bible says that we all know when we were born again. I was born again over many years, so it was a long labor, some births are quick and some slow. IO don't understand why you're having trouble understanding this simple truth.

We are Born Of God’s seed in an instant..Born Of The Spirit, just as Jesus explained to Nicodemus, flesh gives birth to flesh Spirit gives birth to spirit, in an instance..,now you show me @Christian Soldier that we are Born Again over many years, using scripture please?

You have posted scripture and twisted it's interpretation to support a false doctrines. And you don't like being corrected, God said a wise person loves you for correcting them but a fool hates you for it.

Show me where I twisted scripture?

A born again sins everyday for the rest of his life, God said it and I believe it but you reject Gods Word.

A Born Again does not sin because they have been Born of Gods seed?..you are the one denying the word of God.

I know that you sin everyday 100% without any doubt at all and God is on my side because He said you're a liar if you deny it.

I have already shown you, Jesus explains to Nicodemus how we are Born Again of the Spirit.
Now you show me where you are being Born Again day by day?

 

[Ritajanice]

I know that you sin everyday 100% without any doubt at all and God is on my side because He said you're a liar if you deny it.

Like I said, you don’t know when you became Born Again, you don’t know what it means.

Therefore you are in no position to preach that I sin.

I have been Born Of God’s seed.

A Born Again does not sin because they have been Born of Gods seed.

Now please explain what that means, that we have been Born Of God’s seed?

 

[Christian Soldier]

Show me where I twisted scripture?


A Born Again does not sin because they have been Born of Gods seed?..you are the one denying the word of God.

I have already shown you, Jesus explains to Nicodemus how we are Born Again of the Spirit.
Now you show me where you are being Born Again day by day?

You are being willfully ignorant, and I don't believe that you are interested in what God said about the matter. I believe, you only pushing your own agenda while ignoring everything God said about it

 

[Christian Soldier]

Like I said, you don’t know when you became Born Again, you don’t know what it means.

Therefore you are in no position to preach that I sin.

I have been Born Of God’s seed.

A Born Again does not sin because they have been Born of Gods seed.

Now please explain what that means, that we have been Born Of God’s seed?

You can claim to be born again till you turn blue in the face, but Gods Word says you're a liar. I showed you where Gods Word calls people like you liars, but you just ignore it.

 

[Ritajanice]

You are being willfully ignorant, and I don't believe that you are interested in what God said about the matter. I believe, you only pushing your own agenda while ignoring everything God said about it

I have asked you a question.
you are preaching that I sin.

I posted scripture that a Born Again doesnt sin because they have been Born of Gods seed.

You are denying Gods word?

Show me also where you are being Born again day by day?

 

[Ritajanice]

You can claim to be born again till you turn blue in the face, but Gods Word says you're a liar. I showed you where Gods Word calls people like you liars, but you just ignore it.

You have denied that a Born Again does not sin because they have been Born of Gods seed.

What does being Born Of God’s seed mean?

If you can’t explain what it means to be Born Of God’s seed, then you are most definitely in no position to preach to me that I sin.

I am Born Of God and his seed remains in me!

1 John 3

King James Version

​

3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

 

[Christian Soldier]

I have asked you a question.
you are preaching that I sin.

I posted scripture that a Born Again doesnt sin because they have been Born of Gods seed.

You are denying Gods word?

Show me also where you are being Born again day by day?

This is embarrassing, I'm teaching an adult elementary bible basics, but here goes. Make sure you apologize please

Philippians 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. 6 And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns.

Now what on earth is this work, that God is doing in His people????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[Christian Soldier]

You have denied that a Born Again does not sin because they have been Born of Gods seed.

What does being Born Of God’s seed mean?

If you can’t explain what it means to be Born Of God’s seed, then you are most definitely in no position to preach to me that I sin.

I have explained this many times but it just goes straight over the top of your head

 

[Ritajanice]

This is embarrassing, I'm teaching an adult elementary bible basics, but here goes. Make sure you apologize please

Philippians 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. 6 And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns.

You said that you are being Born Again day by day..that is not biblical.

This is Biblicall.

​

◄ Hebrews 10 ►

​

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Christ’s Perfect Sacrifice (Psalm 40:1–17) 1For the law is only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves. It can never, by the same sacrifices offered year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2If it could, would not the offerings have ceased? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt the guilt of their sins. 3Instead, those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, 4because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, He said: “Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but a body You prepared for Me. 6In burnt offerings and sin offerings You took no delight. 7Then I said, ‘Here I am, it is written about Me in the scroll: I have come to do Your will, O God.’ ”a 8In the passage above He says, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings You did not desire, nor did You delight in them” (although they are offered according to the law). 9Then He adds, “Here I am, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first to establish the second. 10And by that will, we have been sanctified through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11Day after day every priest stands to minister and to offer again and again the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when this Priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, He sat down at the right hand of God.13Since that time, He waits for His enemies to be made a footstool for His feet,14because by a single offering He has made perfect for all time those who are being sanctified. 15The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First He says: 16“This is the covenant I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord. I will put My laws in their hearts and inscribe them on their minds.”b

Now what on earth is this work, that God is doing in His people????????????????????????????????????????????????

You have denied that a Born Again does not sin because they have been Born of Gods seed.

What does being Born Of God’s seed mean?

If you can’t explain what it means to be Born Of God’s seed, then you are most definitely in no position to preach to me that I sin.

I am Born Of God and his seed remains in me!

1 John 3​

​

King James Version​

​

3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.