The Way/Theosis/entire sanctification.

[marks]

the core foundation upon which the NC stands:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV
1) Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3) For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4) And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Much love!

 

[uncle silas]

To whom is this addressed?

And what is the remainder of the prophecy? That they will keep all the statutes and precepts. When the House of Israel and the House of Judah are brought fully into the new covenant they will by nature do all the things commanded in the Law (law and prophets - which detail the requirements of the covenant).

The letter to the Hebrews is exactly that, a letter to the Hebrews, to show the supremecy of Christ to the Law, to Moses, to the priesthood, to answer every objection a faithful Hebrew may have to turning to Jesus.

Ezekiel 36:24-28 KJV
24) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25) Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28) And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Jeremiah 31:31-37 KJV
31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Much love!

You really should understand the core foundation upon which the christian faith stands:
“This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[b]
17 Then he adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”[c]
18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary. heb 10:15-18

The covenant begins when sacrifices for sin are no longer neccessary. When was that?
As the covenant began at the resurrection of Christ, how many covenants do you believe exist?
Gentile Christians today have the law in their hearts, Paul stated that(Rom2:14&15) They would not even need to know of biblical law to show the requirements(not some of the requirements) of the law are written in their hearts.
Gentiles sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more, for Jesus died for them, no more righteousness of obeying the law.
You need to discern what is written. I agree with you, a time is coming when Jew's eyes will be opened to Christ en masse. They will be drawn into the new covenant, not a seperate covenant. The covenant that exists now.
Of course Jeremiah wrote specifically of t Israel and Judah, they were the ones then in covenant, but there would only be one covenant, for Jew and gentile alike. I will address your other point in a seperate post, don't like writing too long posts

 

[uncle silas]

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV
1) Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3) For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4) And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Much love!

Yes, every Jew, whenever they come to Christ will accept those verse

 

[uncle silas]

Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them

@uncle silas

Does this apply to the Christian today?

Much love!

A Jewish believer once said: ‘’The Quran can be understood simply by reading the letter of it, the bible was not meant to be understood that way’’

The bible is not always written to be understood literalistically. I’m sure your eye has caused you to sin since you got saved, how many eyes do you now have? If two, are you in rebellion against what Christ literally stated?

It is certainly true that in a time yet to come, Jews eyes will be opened to Christ en masse, scripture is clear on that. And, they will all know Christ from the least to the greatest.

Now specifically in relation to verse 27. Does that mean in their hearts they will want to see reflected all possible Torah reflected in their lives? Possibly, there are scriptures that lend support to that, or, all applicable law to gentiles that God wants to see reflected in their lives today? It is a minor point in the grand scheme of things.

The part of the covenant mentioned in Heb 10, is, as I told you fully reflected in Gentiles lives today

The law is in their hearts, as Paul plainly stated, and their sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more, for Jesus died for them. The extra that was quoted from Jeremiah, does refer to Israel specifically, the main body, to all of us, Jews and gentiles alike.

 

[uncle silas]

Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them

@uncle silas

Does this apply to the Christian today?

Much love!

The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2 Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3 But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. 4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:

“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7 Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, my God.’”[a]

8 First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. 9 Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy. Heb10:1-14

It all relates to the covenant we are under now doesn’t it.

The law was only a shadow of the good things that were coming

The sacrifices couldn’t make perfect those in covenant.

Therefore Christ came into the world, he had come to do God’s will. Sacrifices and burnt offerings God was not pleased with, though they were offered in accordance with the law. And by that will, we HAVE BEEN(NOT WILL BE) made holy through the sacrifice of Christ.

Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

The above applies today to Christians. It concerns when Christ had offered a one time sacrifice for sin, and by that sacrifice made us perfect in God’s sight, though we are imperfect in the flesh, for God sees Christ’s sacrifice for us, not our imperfections, we are covered by his blood.

Now read carefully verse15:

The Holy Spirit also testifies to us ABOUT THIS(what has previously been written)

Then the covenant is mentioned. Verses 1-14 relate to the covenant gentiles are now uder, verses 15-18, relates to that covenant, what had been written about in the preceding 14 verses.

Im sorry if you have an external law engraved in stone, I don’t. That could be why you believe you may have been sinless for five weeks. The greater conviction of sin comes from within, not a written external law
I must say, I have only come accross a few people who do not believe the covenant mentioned in heb 10:15-18 is for gentile believers today. Dispensationalists being among them

 

[Hepzibah]

I don't mean to offend, but this looks to me like someone applying their intellect to the scriptures rather than just allowing those scriptures to teach them. The natural man (carnal mind/intellect) cannot perceive the things of God because they are spiritually discerned. People either don't have the Spirit and therefore can't rely on the Spirit and are left with nothing but their own natural mind to rely on, or they have the Spirit but are not relying on Him but on their own mind.

Thank you for taking the time to watch. As we heard, Paul uses energeia a lot in his letters, but in our bibles, it does not translate. Does the Holy Spirit show us the things that get missed in translation? Yes if we are walking in the Spirit but not in the same areas for all. God does not give each man everything, we all have parts to include in revelation, like the flowers in a garden.

This is the problem, Orthodoxy, despite its many errors that have come in increasingly, at least have a firm foundation, that is, the faith that was handed down with the apostolic tradition which was lost in Augustine which the west follows. This is on the important things like the order of salvation and how to interpret the Bible, and more than anything, the teaching of Theosis. Augustine departed from the apostolic faith on these and the cults which followed, use him and say they follow the early church.

The foundation for the early church was in following the teachings of those who had reached the goal of God for man and who were entirely led by the Spirit especially on those two issues and which are found in scripture by those who read it in depth.

Of course one can come to a 'saving' faith without this knowledge, but we will remain there and we have churches full of babies.

Scholars in EO are very useful for this even if they are not walking in the Spirit, as they have access to manuscripts and knowledge of ancient languages, and the history of theology. But of course we must add in further knowledge from our individual spiritual understanding so long as it does not contradict the rest of scripture, for which scholars are very useful for this.

Lizbeth: That gentleman is arguing that it's important to translate the words for operation/working of God as energy in order to link it with the concept of synergy as applied to our relationship with God. So I looked up the definition for synergy: "the interaction or cooperation of two or more organizations, substances, or other agents to produce a combined effect greater than the sum of their separate effects." This is not biblical....it's not how it works between God and man.

Well of course it is a secular interpretation of the word. In Orthodoxy the word means co-operation, as opposed to the deterministic pagan influences coming into the church as you say in the following-

Lizbeth: Bible says, "We have this treasure in our jars of clay, that the excellency may be of God", not of us at all. "His strength is made perfect in our weakness." "Be still (at rest) and know that I am God." We are just the vessel, not adding anything to the working of God, but simply being available for His use. And the Lord can and does often work sovereignly without the agency of a human vessel without any lessening or diminishment of effects.

Also the speaker is wanting to use the word energy with respect to "essence" of God, when by his own admission the word essence is not even used in the NT at all (not in Greek or English). So I just can't agree with all of this. I consider God's nature is His essence if we still want to use that term, which the bible says we are partakers of. However it is HIS in His own right, which is what makes Him God, whereas we are only the happy partakers of it, or sharers in it....like the moon only reflects the glory of the Sun (which has its own glory) but doesn't have any glory of its own. That's how I think of it and it's the best I can do with this, hope it makes sense.

Exactly. God choses what He wants to reveal of Himself as it is impossible for man to know otherwise and that is mainly through His energies and He remains unknowable. Many of us come up against this aspect when we suffer greatly when all we want to do is to be obedient and we cry out for Him to show us where we are so disobedient that we bring upon ourselves this hell we are going though, but, no answer.

He says 'My ways are not your ways' and we learn to stop asking questions.

I would just like to add that I am still a student and only came into this part of the church a couple of years ago and am grieved at the separation of east and west and how both sides can learn from each other and be empowered by it. The east in that it lacks the zeal of the average believer in studying scripture themselves (with guidance) and the west thinking that they are qualified to do so themselves with reference to a certain man, when any man only knows in part.

I know that there are many who think likewise (ex Protestants in particular) and that efforts at communication will benefit all if the things that divide can be worked though, as there is a huge gap in mindset.

 

[Lizbeth]

Philippians 2:12-13 KJV
12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work (katergadzomai - performance of) out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13) For it is God which worketh (ergon - works) in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

My understanding is that God works into us the desire and the ability to please Him, and we are responsible to take that and use it. Not choose against what we know God has given us the power to do. And we have to wait for His transforming work in us so that we will be capable. I think this is something we can know.

It says it is GOD working in us. We are at rest and just go along for the ride, when God is working through us by His Spirit. Is that not your experience? That is how I experience those rare (for me) but blessed times when the Lord is working...it is His Spirit in my vessel and "I" am just out of the way. He fills our vessel when it is empty.

Synergy, by the definition I saw, is just wrong and leads astray from the very important, vital concept of rest. How can any net result be greater than what God can do by Himself? What can we possibly add to Him? Not possible. It is, "Be STILL (at rest) and know that I am God." Revelation (illumination of the word) comes that way too, it is something simply received.....when our carnal mind is at rest in that moment and just looking to the Lord (like a little child), not busy-busy, self-reliantly trying to figure things out intellectually. "What do we have that we didn't RECEIVE?" from God. That is why we will justly lay our crowns at HIS feet. That is what it means to reckon our old man dead....at rest.....dormant, inactive. The Promised Land is a land of REST from our own labour (slavery)...it is the promise of His Spirit. This is the reason Jesus said His yoke is easy and His burden is light....because He is doing all the work (by His Spirit).

 

[Hepzibah]

just go along for the ride,

Satan will not go along with that. If we are used to the extent that God desires, then we must be killed ie crucified with Christ which is not something that we can speak lightly of 'I no longer live' said Paul. So many have an uncrucified life as believers. No cross no crown as an early Quaker said.

 

[marks]

It says it is GOD working in us. We are at rest and just go along for the ride, when God is working through us by His Spirit. Is that not your experience?

Yes. Accepting fully God's love and care for me releases me to live in this moment alone, and being liberated from the call of flesh, what remains is the leading of Holy Spirit. Being united together, His heart is my heart, and I do that thing that gives God's love to others. That will include self care, but as a means to an end, not as an end in itself.

Believing that God can and does empower holy living, that is, living for His purposes alone, IF we put off the old man (the behavioral and mental influence of the nature of our sinful flesh), and make the choice to believe, for me it's more a matter of focusing on our relationship, God's love and acceptance and after that, when I completely embrace this, fully rest.

I don't really have to think much about what I'm doing, or really about myself much at all, the Spirit leads.

That is how I experience those rare (for me) but blessed times when the Lord is working...it is His Spirit in my vessel and "I" am just out of the way. He fills our vessel when it is empty.

Amen!!

Synergy, by the definition I saw, is just wrong and leads astray from the very important, vital concept of rest. How can any net result be greater than what God can do by Himself? What can we possibly add to Him? Not possible.

I agree. Our afflictions are to bring out the death we died with Christ allowing His life to be seen in us, not some mixture. Mixture is the problem, not the solution. I must decrease, He must increase.

It is, "Be STILL (at rest) and know that I am God."

The heart of the matter.

Revelation (illumination of the word) comes that way too, it is something simply received.....when our carnal mind is at rest in that moment and just looking to the Lord (like a little child), not busy-busy, self-reliantly trying to figure things out intellectually. "What do we have that we didn't RECEIVE?" from God. That is why we will justly lay our crowns at HIS feet. That is what it means to reckon our old man dead....at rest.....dormant, inactive. The Promised Land is a land of REST from our own labour (slavery)...it is the promise of His Spirit. This is the reason Jesus said His yoke is easy and His burden is light....because He is doing all the work (by His Spirit).

Again, Amen!!!

Much love!

 

[Lizbeth]

Yes. Accepting fully God's love and care for me releases me to live in this moment alone, and being liberated from the call of flesh, what remains is the leading of Holy Spirit. Being united together, His heart is my heart, and I do that thing that gives God's love to others. That will include self care, but as a means to an end, not as an end in itself.

Believing that God can and does empower holy living, that is, living for His purposes alone, IF we put off the old man (the behavioral and mental influence of the nature of our sinful flesh), and make the choice to believe, for me it's more a matter of focusing on our relationship, God's love and acceptance and after that, when I completely embrace this, fully rest.

I don't really have to think much about what I'm doing, or really about myself much at all, the Spirit leads.


Amen!!

I agree. Our afflictions are to bring out the death we died with Christ allowing His life to be seen in us, not some mixture. Mixture is the problem, not the solution. I must decrease, He must increase.


The heart of the matter.

Again, Amen!!!

Much love!

Amen. "It's not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit says the Lord." Looking to the Lord and asking Him to work....when we are at rest and not straining in our own might, so to speak. And Hebrews 4:10 "for the one who as entered His rest has himself also rested from his works."

 

[marks]

Satan will not go along with that. If we are used to the extent that God desires, then we must be killed ie crucified with Christ which is not something that we can speak lightly of 'I no longer live' said Paul. So many have an uncrucified life as believers. No cross no crown as an early Quaker said.

Could you show me the Scriptures which tell us about our beginning step in Christ? You know that I think this is rebirth, and point to passages such as Romans 6, baptized into Him, Ephesians 4, recreated in God's pattern, Ephesians 2, raised up with Christ.

What passages would you show me that describe the beginning of our walk with Christ, leading up to that rebirth?

Thank you!
Much love!

 

[Lizbeth]

Satan will not go along with that. If we are used to the extent that God desires, then we must be killed ie crucified with Christ which is not something that we can speak lightly of 'I no longer live' said Paul. So many have an uncrucified life as believers. No cross no crown as an early Quaker said.

Death = sleep, rest. Death is an allegory for being at rest...our flesh subdued, ruled over, under Christ's feet, when He takes possession of our vessel. It's not literal.

I'm not taking it lightly, just describing how it feels to me when the Lord has taken me over to work His work. At such times it is no longer "I", but God, His Spirit, doing His work. Thought some might relate to that.

 

[uncle silas]

Isn't it showing the difference? In the one, sacrifices offered day be day and year by year would not remove sins, but only remind the worshipers that the sins are still there. In the other, by one sacrifice, we are made perfect. Sound an astounding and fundamental difference.

God is not in this passage trying to show the new covenant to be according to the same terms as the law covenant, He is showing the defining difference between the two, that being the offering of Christ of His body, "Behold, the Lamb of God Who carries away the sin of the world."

In Christ we are freed from flesh and freed from Law, needing only the Law of Love. James calls it the Law of Liberty. I understand that to mean that we need no code of Laws because we've been freed from flesh, and therefore none need tell us what to do, the Spirit leads us. That is, if we are walking in the Spirit, we need no code of laws. Only to trust Jesus and love others. Which is our heart to do, only, the flesh gets in our way.


I can't imagine what I've said to give this idea. Generally if someone complains about my stance regarding the Law and the Prophets it's to label me antinomian. I'm firmly convinced from the Bible that the Law and Prophets are not to govern our lives, not in Christ. Not the Sermon on the Mount, or any other list of "laws" one may assemble from the New Testament. And people do make those lists!

The Law was given for the ungodly, those who are only flesh, not regenerate. The Law will tell you everything you are doing wrong, but cannot give you the power to do right.

So we depart from the Law, and serve Jesus Christ Himself, personally, not through the intermediary of a Law that cannot save. No Law can save us. Only a new life in Christ, a life that has nothing to do with serving the Law, but Jesus Himself.


Hebrews 10:15-18 KJV
15) Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16) This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17) And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Quoted from:

Jeremiah 31:31-37 KJV
31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Parallel Passage:

Ezekiel 36:24-28 KJV
24) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25) Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28) And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Passage of note:

Acts 21:20 KJV
And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

The writer of Hebrews is quoting God's promise that the time is coming that concerning the House of Israel and the House of Judah, that is, the northern and southern kingdoms, that every single last one of them is going to come to know God, all of them. That God will give them a new spirit, all of them. And that in this new spirit, they would all keep every last bit of the Law and Prophets.

And at this time, God will deliver them back to their land, to remain unafraid, living with God.

The writer of Hebrews is here showing them in their own Law and Prophets that God had promised something different, better.

Paul refers to this in,

Romans 11:26-27 KJV
26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27) For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Are you aware of any parallel passages to Hebrews 10:15-18? That show "the law written on the believers heart as they've come to believe in Christ and be regenerated"?

Again, Hebrews was written to the Hebrews to show Jesus Christ's supremecy to everything about their covenant made at Mt. Horeb. If we maintain that context, and keep the OT quotes in their contexts, this all harmonizes together.

Much love!

Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20
All christians are conscious of sin in their hearts, therefore law is in their hearts
All christians know their sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more for Jesus died for them
All christians know there is no more sacrifices for sin
That covenant is now fully reflercted in the lives of gentile believers-even you!

And btw, if you only had a law of love, no other commandments you could only be conscious of sin in regard to not loving
If a person committed adultery, would they be specifically conscious of sin because they committed adultery, or would they only be conscious of sin in regard to not loving as they should?

 

[uncle silas]

Again, this was stated of all gentiles, not gentile Christians. Paul also wrote that none could understand the things of God but those who have His Spirit.

Everyone could know God's reality, and His power, from creation. The more thoughtful could conclude that He likewise has a Way in mind that we should live, that we stray from that Way, and that He continues to supply our need, showing us grace.

But that knowledge is imcomplete at best, only the barest beginning.

Much love!

No it is not stated of all gentiles.

 

[uncle silas]

Not law . . . but Himself. That's what is being reflected.

2 Corinthians 3:18 LITV
18) But we all with our face having been unveiled, having beheld the glory of the Lord in a mirror, are being changed into the same image from glory to glory, as from the Lord Spirit.

What do you see when you look in a mirror?

Much love!

Do we then nullify the law by this faith? God forbid! Yea, we establish the law Rom3:31

If all you had were Christ guiding you, would that be sufficient?

Much love!

Stop deflecting from what you are being shown
Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20
If you were correct, a christian could only be conscious of sin in regard to not loving as tyhey should, that is no believers reality.

 

[marks]

@uncle silas

I think we are getting off the topic of entire sanctification, or as I'd say, consistently walking in the Spirit. I'd like to refocus on that.

Much love!

 

[uncle silas]

When the gentiles, who have not the Law, do the things in the law . . . This is a general statement concerning the gentiles, as contrasted to the Jews, who have the Law.

@uncle silas

I think we are getting off the topic of entire sanctification, or as I'd say, consistently walking in the Spirit. I'd like to refocus on that.

Much love!

Im sure you would. Your idea that only a law of love itself is in believers cannot be true, as it has been proved to you. I have also shown you, the covenant you reject for believers is now fully reflected in believers lives.

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Rom3:31
Read the preceding 11 verses, it refers to law you could never be justified by obeying!!
Christ is the end of the law UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS(not full stop) for everyone who believeth Rom10:4

I will not continue conversation with you. I have proved your error, but you simply ignore it and want to deflect elsewhere.

 

[marks]

This path of conversation began in the claim that if someone thinks they are walking in the Spirit without sin, that must mean they don't know the Law that shows their sin, or that they are living according to some code of law that has gaps, and allows their sin. Or that they simply aren't sensitive to their own actions, failing to see their sin.

I think those are "straw man" arguments, and that they all share the same presupposition, that no one can walk without sinning.

Galatians 5:16 LITV
But I say, Walk in the Spirit, and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

A simple rule is given, walking in the Spirit means not doing what the flesh wants. Plain and simple.

Galatians 5:25 LITV
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Again, a simple admonition, that I believe we are given the power by God to be able to obey. Therefore let us also walk in the Spirit, and in doing so, we won't do those fleshy things that we know as sin.

Much love!

 

[uncle silas]

Faith established the Law because you have to have faith. The Law is solid, unyielding, and condemns everyone to death. The only escape from the Law is faith. Faith establishes the Law.

Much love!

You do not understand the subject.
Law as we all understand law to mean got abolished, for that law comes in two parts, what is written in the law and the attached penalty for transgression. That kind of law has gone, because Jesus died to pay the penalty of mans transgression, no more condemnation. Without the penalty for transgression there is no more condemnation.
However, what is written in that law is holy, just and good(Rom7:12)
Jesus did not die at Calvary to abolish what is holy, just and good. He died to end mans condemnation under what is holy, just and good. He died for believers sins/their transgressions of the law.
If only love itself as a law was in believers lives, they could only be conscious of sin in regard to not loving as they should. It doesnt work that way, as every believer can testify to.
And so:
Christ is the end of the law UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS(NOT FULL STOP) for everyone who believeth Rom10:4

 

[uncle silas]

Jesus gave us 2 commandments, trust Him, and love others. Do you suppose that if you are not trusting God, and not loving others, that you, a man in whom the Spirit dwells, would not know this?

But of course, people can be used to ignoring sin, and used to ignoring the Spirit just the same, I suppose.

What is it exactly you don't like about what I think?

The Law shows us sin, and condemns us, everyone. Those without the Law and the Prophets still have enough law in them to know they are in the wrong. But the Law cannot save us, it can only condemn us, because we've all already sinned, fallen short of His glory, so we are dead. The Law wins every time, we are all dead.

In Christ, we come alive, and are not under any Law, but are in the Spirit, to be led by the Spirit, to walk in the Spirit, and Law will not accomplish that. The Spirit of the Living God does that.

I've become con.fused, are you advocating that we be continually comparing ourselves to the Law and the Prophets to make sure we are in conformance? If someone is con.fused over whether they should kill someone else, or sleep with their wife, or some such, yes, the Law and the Prophets can certainly show us God's perspective of those acts.

And if a Christian would otherwise choose to kill someone else, simply obeying that commandment does save a life. However, I believe God's way is to train us up into Christ, so that in our heart we don't want to kill them, or take something from them, we want to help them.

Paul said we have died to the Law, being loosed from it as a wife is from her dead husband, and we are now married to another, to Christ Himself. We've lost our first husband, now we are wed to Christ. Shall we go back and live with our first husband? Of course not!

Much love!

Here’s Paul’s core gospel message in a nutshell:

The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56 The legally binding law with the power to condemn.

But as Paul states, the law, what is written in it is holy, just and good (Rom7:12)

So what was God to do? He obviously would want to remove the power of sin, but he would not want to remove what is holy just and good.
The law comes in two parts, what is written in the law and the attached penalty for transgression. Nothing wrong at all with the first part, it is holy, just and good, its the second part that's the problem

So God did an incredible thing. He transferred the law/what is written in it, from an external law engraved in stone, and made it an internal law in the hearts and minds of believers(2Cor3:3&Heb10:15-17)) An external law does not mean you in your heart would want to obey it does it. But a law placed in your heart, does mean in your heart you want to follow it. So, what is holy, just and good remains intact, it is now in your heart and mind. It simply means in your mind you know how God wants you to live and in your heart you want to live that way. In your heart you do not want to murder, steal, commit adultery, covet, take the Lords name in vain etc. Hardly legalism! The law/what is written in the law that is now in your heart and mind cannot condemn you, you have no righteousness of obeying it, for Jesus died for your sins/your transgressions of the law: your sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more

Because, and only because you in your heart want to live as God desires you to live, he removed the penalty attached to the law for transgression from your life. He sent Jesus to die for your sins/your transgressions of the law. Therefore, the legally binding law with the power to condemn is removed from you. And therefore, the power of sin is also now removed from your life.

With the power of sin removed from your life, you can now live a far holier life, a life you in your heart want to live for that is where the law now is. And you can do that because you are not under law/righteousness of obeying the law, but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ. Christ died to pay the penalty of your sin, and he died to break the power of sin. And so Paul states:

Do we then make void the law by faith/righteousness of faith in Christ not obeying the law? God forbid: Yea, we establish the law Rom3:31

And:

For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law/ righteousness of obeying the law, but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ. Rom 6:14