The Way/Theosis/entire sanctification.

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace

I am not prepared to debate with anyone who has at least done a bit of homework, which you have clearly not done when you say such as the following:

You wrote the above and then posted two verses from the NT,
one from John and one from Jesus.

So I guess you're saying that you don't agree with either John or Jesus....
since it's THEM that made the statements, NOT ME.

Also, as I've also stated to a JW on this forum...
if you think I haven't studied enough for your intelligence,
then you should not be posting to me.

There is no-one that I have heard of that says that once we come to Christ for forgiveness, we will not sin again. That is a gross misrepresentation of the doctrine and shocking to hear it coming from one who has attended a Nazarene church, though I do know that they abandoned the truth a long time ago.

Well H, I guess you haven't heard from enough Christians.
And my having attended a Nazarene church has nothing to do with anything.

Sorry I brought it up.
You shouldn't be so shocked.
Maybe you haven't been around the block enough times....

 

[GodsGrace]

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is DEATH


Me. Well previously. As of late the Lord has decided to remove me from that blessings for His own purposes.

Water baptism was administered at the same time as Spirit baptism. It was deification that saves.

"For the Greek patristic tradition, especially in its mystical forms, the final goal and result of this saving knowledge, this forgiveness and this rescue from death was 'deification'. Yet salvation was not merely vivification, but deification" Jaroslav Pelikan, eminent scholar of historical theology.

Whatever you care to believe is fine with me.
I don't like to post to persons that are insulting.
So our conversation ends right here.

(the insults were in the previous post by you to me).

Heaven is going to be pretty empty.
Just you sinless persons will be there I guess.

John and Jesus must have been as uneducated as I am apparently since they made provision for sin.

 

[uncle silas]

Here's a sample list of what would be needed to live a sinless life, according to the biblical definition of sin, I've included some of Jesus commands in the list:



Do you ever put anything before God in your life?

Do you ever build any graven images in your mind?

Do you always honour your parents without exception.

Do you ever looked at a woman with lust in your eye? (Jesus ratified the commandment)

Have you ever fibbed about anyone, or been untruthful about a person in anyway?

Have you dwelt on any impure thought?

Do you ever desire ANYTHING of your neighbours, whether material goods or a member of their household?

Do you fully obey the law relating to the inner man, the law only you and God need know you break?

If someone asked to lend from you would you gladly lend to them without ever expecting anything back?

If someone stole from you, would you offer them more than what they stole with nothing but love in your heart for them?

Do you not invite friends or family home for a meal, but rather the poor, blind, lame and beggars?

If you have ever fasted, have you even hinted to anyone you are fasting?

Do you truly in your heart love your enemies, those who may malign, harass or persecute you?

Do you leap for joy if you are persecuted?

Do you always truly love all those you come into contact with in thought, word or deed, constantly, including your enemies, those who may be unkind to you, persecute or harass you?



All examples of what it takes to obey the TC, Christ’s teaching and the second greatest commandment.

 

[GodsGrace]

Here's a sample list of what would be needed to live a sinless life, according to the biblical definition of sin, I've included some of Jesus commands in the list:



Do you ever put anything before God in your life?

Do you ever build any graven images in your mind?

Do you always honour your parents without exception.

Do you ever looked at a woman with lust in your eye? (Jesus ratified the commandment)

Have you ever fibbed about anyone, or been untruthful about a person in anyway?

Have you dwelt on any impure thought?

Do you ever desire ANYTHING of your neighbours, whether material goods or a member of their household?

Do you fully obey the law relating to the inner man, the law only you and God need know you break?

If someone asked to lend from you would you gladly lend to them without ever expecting anything back?

If someone stole from you, would you offer them more than what they stole with nothing but love in your heart for them?

Do you not invite friends or family home for a meal, but rather the poor, blind, lame and beggars?

If you have ever fasted, have you even hinted to anyone you are fasting?

Do you truly in your heart love your enemies, those who may malign, harass or persecute you?

Do you leap for joy if you are persecuted?

Do you always truly love all those you come into contact with in thought, word or deed, constantly, including your enemies, those who may be unkind to you, persecute or harass you?



All examples of what it takes to obey the TC, Christ’s teaching and the second greatest commandment.

Great post Uncle!
And there's much more if we wanted to sit here and think of some more sins.

I think part of the problem (maybe all of it - who knows) is that some are not very sensitive to what sin is and so they think that since they don't commit any big sins, then they feel they don't sin at all.

God is so pure, His light is blinding, He is wholly pure and holy.
How anyone could think they don't sin in the presence of such a being is beyond me.

 

[uncle silas]

Great post Uncle!
And there's much more if we wanted to sit here and think of some more sins.

I think part of the problem (maybe all of it - who knows) is that some are not very sensitive to what sin is and so they think that since they don't commit any big sins, then they feel they don't sin at all.

God is so pure, His light is blinding, He is wholly pure and holy.
How anyone could think they don't sin in the presence of such a being is beyond me.

You are right. much of the problem is many are not sensitive to what sin is. I went to a church once for a while to please a friend. It was constantly stated ''you must obey the TC'' I saw more flagrant sinning against those commands in that church than any other church I have ever been to in decades. People were even laughing and joking as they transgressed the TC they insisted everyone must obey. It seemed, they did not even know when they were transgressing them

 

[Hepzibah]

Interesting, because when you are walking in the blessing, you cannot imagine life not doing so. But outside of it, you cannot imagine life doing so.

Having a pure heart can include all of those things yes. And more. The thing is that through the power of God that is within you, you are led moment by moment to do His will. It is that simple. And nothing impure comes into your mind. You can't imagine that if you have not been there. @uncle silas

 

[GodsGrace]

You are right. much of the problem is many are not sensitive to what sin is. I went to a church once for a while to please a friend. It was constantly stated ''you must obey the TC'' I saw more flagrant sinning against those commands in that church than any other church I have ever been to in decades. People were even laughing and joking as they transgressed the TC they insisted everyone must obey. It seemed, they did not even know when they were transgressing them

Seems like we go from one extreme to the other.
I fear for the church.

 

[uncle silas]

Interesting, because when you are walking in the blessing, you cannot imagine life not doing so. But outside of it, you cannot imagine life doing so.

Having a pure heart can include all of those things yes. And more. The thing is that through the power of God that is within you, you are led moment by moment to do His will. It is that simple. And nothing impure comes into your mind. You can't imagine that if you have not been there. @uncle silas

I tend to agree with John, those who claim to be without sin are deceived, and the truth is not in them

 

[Hepzibah]

I tend to agree with John, those who claim to be without sin are deceived, and the truth is not in them

You are taking it out of context. He is rebutting Gnostics who said they can sin but it does not affect their spirits. Just like calvinists.

 

[uncle silas]

You are taking it out of context. He is rebutting Gnostics who said they can sin but it does not affect their spirits. Just like calvinists.

Really? John included himself in the ''WE'' was he a gnostic too? There is no way you perfectly without slip obey each and every one of the commands in the list you responded to. I really don't feel obliged to continue such a ridiculous conversation if you do claim to perfectly obey them 24/7.

 

[Hepzibah]

Using the 'we' is a manner of speech. You know the 'royal we'?

Thank you for your contribution, making me long to be home again.

 

[uncle silas]

Using the 'we' is a manner of speech. You know the 'royal we'?

Thank you for your contribution, making me long to be home again.

Well we can always prove if you don't commit sin. Do you claim to perfectly without slip obey all of the commands in the list I put up without any faliures whatsoever?

 

[Hepzibah]

Well we can always prove if you don't commit sin. Do you claim to perfectly without slip obey all of the commands in the list I put up without any faliures whatsoever?

I already said that is what walking in the Spirit is. I am not there at the moment though. Longing to be back there.. It is entirely in the power of God who can enable me to do all things in His strength.

 

[uncle silas]

I already said that is what walking in the Spirit is. I am not there at the moment though. Longing to be back there.. It is entirely in the power of God who can enable me to do all things in His strength.

OK, thank you for being honest, you are not there at the moment, so regretfully you still commit sin

 

[Hepzibah]

OK, thank you for being honest, you are not there at the moment, so regretfully you still commit sin

Not intentionally. But yes l do have sins like being afraid of the future.

 

[uncle silas]

Not intentionally. But yes l do have sins like being afraid of the future.

Well you said you are not there at the moment in response to my question as to whether you perfectly obeyed that list. As a Baptist minister of fifty years said ''If we all followed after the Holy Spirit every minute of our lives we would never commit sin, the reality of which escapes us all''

 

[Hepzibah]

Well you said you are not there at the moment in response to my question as to whether you perfectly obeyed that list. As a Baptist minister of fifty years said ''If we all followed after the Holy Spirit every minute of our lives we would never commit sin, the rerality of which escapes us all''

Then that minister never knew it that's all.

It is not an all of our life thing. It is a position that we can gain and lose. Like Peter when he had to be confronted by Paul.

 

[uncle silas]

Then that minister never knew it that's all.

It is not an all of our life thing. It is a position that we can gain and lose. Like Peter when he had to be confronted by Paul.

I think the minister knew far more spiritual truth than you do. Anyway, no offence, but chatting to people on the internet who like to infer they live sinless lives is not fruitfull, so thanks for the chat, bye

 

[Hepzibah]

I think the minister knew far more spiritual truth than you do. Anyway, no offence, but chatting to people on the internet who like to infer they live sinless lives is not fruitfull, so thanks for the chat, bye

May the Lord enlighten you one day. Take care.

 

[Lizbeth]

May the Lord enlighten you one day. Take care.

Not sure I'd be expecting a Baptist to have knowledge or faith for spiritual things anyhow since they are cessationists. But Paul wrote, Who shall deliver me from this body of death...thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord...(ie, through His Spirit.).....this I say then walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh....(ie, you won't sin). Paul wasn't lying. But again, I wouldn't expect most Baptists to have understanding or experience of walking in the Spirit.