The Way/Theosis/entire sanctification.

[marks]

You say that man must serve the law of sin in his body

What I'm saying is that the flesh body serves the law of sin, but we aren't ruled by our flesh, we are now in the Spirit, and our spirit is ruled by God. And the "normal Christian life" is a matter of learning, practicing, being trained, to overcome our flesh through faith in Chirst Jesus. That we become more and more in control of ourselves,

Proverbs 4:18 KJV
But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

What I'm saying is that the flesh body serves the law of sin, but we aren't ruled by our flesh, we are now in the Spirit, and our spirit is ruled by God. And the "normal Christian life" is a matter of learning, practicing, being trained, to overcome our flesh through faith in Chirst Jesus. That we become more and more in control of ourselves,

Proverbs 4:18 KJV
But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

Much love!

Sure. Overcoming our outward sins...very OT, but necessary if one is not in the Spirit. As long as you realize that this is not the gospel. The gospel is about an instant freedom from sin through holiness...as a gift of grace through faith...a change of location (kingdom walk) into being no longer of this world...even as we remain in the world.

The Old Testament is about a gradual coming into a more righteous walk. And this continues into the NT. It's about what we can do. Carrying our own cross...taking responsibility for our own actions. Learning righteousness.

Then comes true holiness with Christ ...and we being crucified with Him to walk in His resurrection life. Entering into the easy yoke...entering into the victory of Christ.

 

[marks]

Sure. Overcoming our outward sins...

This isn't what I said.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Well well, here we have the three interpretations of Romans 7 before us.

1) @Episkopos says the Pharisee Paul
2) @marks says the normal Christian life
3 me says it is the ABnormal Christian life where a work of God is required ie Spirit baptism as a second work of grace.

LOL. False. You are justifying yourself by spreading falsehood. You are seeing the Pharisee in Paul. I see the weak uncrucified believer. Be very careful how you see with those Pharisee eyes.

Paul was a Christian in Romans 7 in need of going to the cross. Romans 7 is the realization that one needs the cross of Christ to be liberated from the power of sin in the flesh.

Paul goes from...Not I but sin in me...to...No longer I but Christ in me. How? Paul says "I am crucified with Christ".

The old sin nature can only be put down by the power of the cross.

 

[Hepzibah]

Outward sins can be stopped by human means.....through devotion, discipline, consecration....love of the truth, etc.

But inward sins can ONLY be overcome by a change of nature where there is love, joy, and peace, that pushes aside...opinions, human evaluations, unbelief, self-interest, false judgments, railings, lusts, etc.

Only by the power of the Spirit are the works of the flesh overcome.

Paul was already blameless in his walk according to the law...he was fulfilling the law outwardly. But the law is spiritual, and reveals our true spiritual state, even as that is hidden from others...and ourselves.

You say here that Paul was blameless so l assumed you were saying it was the Pharisee. I made a mistake and apologise but you were unclear, and there you go again being insulting. You just can't help it can you. What a witness to what you claim.

If you do not clean up your act on my thread l will have you removed.

 

[Episkopos]

You say here that Paul was blameless so l assumed you were saying it was the Pharisee.

Paul said he was blameless according to the law. The law could only be administered by breaking it OUTWARDLY. No one can judge the thoughts of a person if no action ensued. Jesus came to clarify the spiritual nature of the law ...which is about what a person is in thought as as well as action. It was on this level that Paul realized he was sold under sin.

I made a mistake and apologise but you were unclear, and there you go again being insulting. You just can't help it can you. What a witness to what you claim.

I have made SO MANY posts here that to take me that wrong I find is by far usually intentional. There is so little honesty here. But I also apologize if your intent had no malice in it...as is the case with many here.

If you do not clean up your act on my thread l will have you removed.

Again with the high horse. I find that you can know of a "second blessing" and be twice as puffed up as a person with only the initial sample of grace. We will all be judged by what we have done with what we have been given. Paul emphasizes the cross....not a second blessing. What is the point of being lifted up to one's own future abasement?

 

[Hepzibah]

Paul said he was blameless according to the law. The law could only be administered by breaking it OUTWARDLY. No one can judge the thoughts of a person if no action ensued. Jesus came to clarify the spiritual nature of the law ...which is about what a person is in thought as as well as action. It was on this level that Paul realized he was sold under sin.



I have made SO MANY posts here that to take me that wrong I find is by far usually intentional. There is so little honesty here. But I also apologize if your intent had no malice in it...as is the case with many here.

Again with the high horse. I find that you can know of a "second blessing" and be twice as puffed up as a person with only the initial sample of grace. We will all be judged by what we have done with what we have been given. Paul emphasizes the cross....not a second blessing. What is the point of being lifted up to one's own future abasement?

I can see why you would be touchy about the second blessing theology as it is unanimous amongst Wesleyans, the Holiness .Movement, the early church (three blessings) and you are out on a limb with those who say that a period of suffering is required. But you are out on a limb with other things aren't you. Coming to the cross a second time denotes a deep humility which can be seen regarding how one interacts with others.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Certainly NOT can a SAV-ED man FALL AWAY from his SALVATION.

Once again, you don't know the Word of God very well.

The OSAS peoples must be cherry pickers that avoid certain portions of scripture in order to believe in OSAS

Some folk just have to learn the hard way I guess.

EVEN a little child can distinguish what applies to him and what doesn’t.

But, little children whgo follow doctrines of devils... like the OSAS peeps.... cannot.

They are the blind leading the blind and they all in the ditch.

Irrelevant deflective blather.

That's how the devil gets OSAS people to continue in their blindness and ignorance of God's Word. Sad for them.

You are getting to know some of the members here I see.. ;)

Yep, every board out there has these OSAS cherry pickers that tippy toe thru the TULIP

 

[Taken]

Once again, you don't know the Word of God very well.

The OSAS peoples must be cherry pickers that avoid certain portions of scripture in order to believe in OSAS

Some folk just have to learn the hard way I guess.

But, little children whgo follow doctrines of devils... like the OSAS peeps.... cannot.

They are the blind leading the blind and they all in the ditch.

That's how the devil gets OSAS people to continue in their blindness and ignorance of God's Word. Sad for them.

Yep, every board out there has these OSAS cherry pickers that tippy toe thru the TULIP

Good to know… all scripture applies to you, such as:

Eph 4:
[18] Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Good to know… all scripture applies to you, such as:

Eph 4:
[18] Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Here's one that talks about you:

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Hope you get some discernment from the Holy Spirit soon since time is running out for you.

 

[face2face]

“IT” as you say…is “about inherited mortality”… was NOT the topic of discussion, regarding receiving salvation and THEN having the received salvation TERMINATED.

Try to stay ON POINT.

You offered Rom 11:22 to support your view…
BUT
Rom 11:22 does NOT support your view, that received Salvation can be terminated.

Try Again.


t

11:22 Notice therefore the kindness and harshness of God—harshness toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness toward you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off Ro 11:22.

He has done precisely that and can and will do it again.

However, be careful Taken!

Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? Romans 2:4

Can you see the lesson? If you can't it's possible the OSAS infection is causing you blindness.

F2F

 

[Dan Clarkston]

11:22 Notice therefore the kindness and harshness of God—harshness toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness toward you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off Ro 11:22.

The OSAS people reject this passage and claim if one believes this passage they are trying to earn their salvation thru good works.

 

[face2face]

The OSAS people reject this passage and claim if one believes this passage they are trying to earn their salvation thru good works.

Because they are confusing the works of the law and don't under works from faith. They are confused about many things.

F2F

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I'm wondering if all the OSAS people are liberals seeing they use the same tactics as the liberals.

 

[Taken]

Here's one that talks about you:

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Hope you get some discernment from the Holy Spirit soon since time is running out for you.

Keep your hope for yourself. I have my assuredness IN Christ.

Like you, neither did the Pharisees understand when Jesus called them hypocrites.

 

[Taken]

11:22 Notice therefore the kindness and harshness of God—harshness toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness toward you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off Ro 11:22.

He has done precisely that and can and will do it again.

However, be careful Taken!

Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? Romans 2:4

Can you see the lesson? If you can't it's possible the OSAS infection is causing you blindness.

F2F

Still you do not comprehend:
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN…
WITH the Lord God
And
WITH-IN the Lord God.

Those “WITH” the Lord God…
ARE “TASTING” blessings from God…
Numerous times Scripture APPEALS to THEM, WARNS THEM…
Powerful wicked men, Powerful Evil spirits abound on this Earth, looking for men to prey upon, convince them, God is not the way.

I have said many times…for individuals to PAY close attention to …
Who, What, When, Why, Where…

You DO NOT Comprehend the “WHY”…
“WHY” is Scripture “WARNING” men “WITH” the Lord God?

The Answer IS;…
Because those men ARE “WITH” the Lord God, BY THEIR OWN POWER.

Didn’t you learn…??
The general public is WEAK…?
They UNDER the power of siting authorities…
Kings, Governors, WHO themselves wield Power, and WHO themselves may be Wickedly ungodly…
AND the Evil anti-godly spirits, roaming the earth, themselves wielding more Power than a man and looking for men to target at their most vulnerable moments, dealing with a hardship, a disease, a whatever, to convince them God has abandoned them?

YOU Pretend YOU can thumb through Scriptures and TELL ME what … WARNINGS I SHOULD consider and pay attention to…

WHY?

Were YOU included IN the Meeting I had WITH the Lord?

Were YOU there the day I called ON the Lords Name and surrendered MY LIFE, SOUL, SPIRIT unto His Care, His AUTHORITY, His POWER to be..
WITH-IN me?

Do YOU think, I Required A WARNING to beware of … powerful Wicked men…powerful Evil spirits…WHEN…
My MASTER, WHO IS “ALL POWERFUL”…HAS Entered WITH-IN me…HIS POWER?

NOPE!
That Warning, DOES NOT APPLY to me.

And your pretense, the “cherry-picking” is a derogatory inference…is laughable…AS YOU think YOURSELF QUALIFIED to “cherry-pick” scripture and “apply them to me”.

Same goes for; some others who do the same such as @ Dan Clarkston

Scriptures what which APPLY TO ME, are the precise “cherry-picked” Scriptures that APPLY TO ANY man WHO IS ALREADY SANCTIFI-ED and KEPT “FOR EVER” by, through, of the “POWER” of God, that IS “WITH-IN” such man.
(Which “IS” the POWER of God “WITH-IN” a man, that IS the Premise FOR the acronym..
OSAS)…

God can BE “WITH” a man and LEAVE him.
God “WITH-IN” a man WILL NEVER LEAVE him.

Heb 10:
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Those “WITH” the Lord God, are NOT sanctified…
Those “WITH-IN” the Lord God, ARE Sanctified “FOR EVER”… OSAS!

The Lord IS “WITH-IN” them.
and THEY are “WITH-IN” the Lord…in short called “IN-Christ”.

Doesn’t matter IF you Believe IT or not…
I do, and aside from what you think, believe, do…. Only I am subject to the Consequences of WHAT, I think, believe, do….same as Only You, shall receive the Consequences for what you think, believe, do.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Hepzibah]

Romans 7:22-25 KJV
22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Two state simultaneously existing. With the mind I serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. Two states, both present.

Much love!

Paul is saying at this point, that illumination has come to him that his flesh does not serve God and is the body of the death he has presented and asks who will deliver him. The answer comes and he thanks God. The flesh, the body of sin has to be on the cross with Christ, not just Christ there - Paul as well. So he reckons - consents to it and hence forth is delivered and free to walk in holiness as in Romans 6 and 8, which both contradict that a man can sin in the flesh while walking in the Spirit.

Romans 7 is about the crisis he came to and how to proceed to life in Romans 8.

That idea of the flesh functioning as well as the spirit is not the gospel. It originates from Gnosticism, the modern day version. There is no gradual sanctification.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I have my assuredness IN Christ.

Teaching false doctrine is heresy and heresy is on the list of things that cause people to not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Keep your hope for yourself.

No.

Still you do not comprehend:
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN…
WITH the Lord God
And
WITH-IN the Lord God.

If one is not walking WITH the Lord as in being in agreement with Him being led by the Holy Spirit based on the written Word of God... then they are not abiding IN Christ.

John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

John 15:5
IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:4,5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:8-10
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

HOW are we to abide in Christ, thru our own strength and ability???
NO... thru the Lord Who strengthens us!

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.


Those that Turned Away from the Lord
(*They were born again... turned away from the Lord, and became UN-saved)

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when THEY will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And THEY shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

James 5:19,20
Brethren, if any of YOU do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

*By addressing this to “BRETHREN” we know this is speaking to believers who turned from the truth and if they are converted back to the truth, the soul of the person that had fallen away is being saved from spiritual death which is separation from God.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)

(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These are those who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

 

[Taken]

Teaching false doctrine is heresy and heresy is on the list of things that cause people to not inherit the Kingdom of God.

So…not news…are you timidly trying to make an implication against me?
OR…
Are you making a charge of heresy against me?

If so…don’t willy nilly…be bold and clear…
Name my Name.
Name your Charge.
Identify your Charge Precisely.

 

[marks]

So…not news…are you timidly trying to make an implication against me?
OR…
Are you making a charge of heresy against me?

If so…don’t willy nilly…be bold and clear…
Name my Name.
Name your Charge.
Identify your Charge Precisely.

For myself, I've learned to disregard those who speak that way, it shows they are not up to the task.

Much love!