The Way/Theosis/entire sanctification.

[marks]

Absolutely the Holy Spirit will reveal the truth of scripture showing us that what has been taught to us directly is from God.

Agreed! What happens when we both think the Holy Spirit is showing us truth, but we have different things we believe? How do we settle the matter? Because I believe we do that according to what is written. And that we either have a correct understanding of the words, and sentences, and paragraphs, or we do not. I believe that the Bible contains objective truth, and we can believe what it says, once we've determined what that is.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I came to Christ 50 years ago, and was born again in the Spirit 17 years later, 45 years before finding the ECF.

What does it mean, "Come to Christ"? If it doesn't mean being born again. Were you justified before being reborn?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Paul is encouraging his readers to go on to perfection not admonishing the already holy

He was admonishing the "born again", of whom you appear to be saying require no admonishment, having already arrived at sanctification.

Something I don't understand . . . if you've now attained rebirth, and entire sanctification, why or how would that end? Why would entire santification revert back to unsanctified?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Sorry wrong way round. Not His essence.

Scripture says partaking of His nature. Is there a reason we aren't using Scriptural terminology?

Much love!

 

[Johann]

1 John 3:18-22 KJV
18) My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19) And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20) For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21) Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

In this way.

If we look at ourselves, we can lose confidence with God. However,

1 Peter 3:21 KJV
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

our conscience is not addressed by personal reformation, instead our good conscience is by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

I'm not saying we don't pay attention to the nagging of our conscience. I am saying that doing this or not doing that, these are not what make us right with God.

Much love!

Cannot argue with the scriptures brother but for me the battlefield is in the mind-always since I'm alone and very reclusive.
. Romans 12:2:

"Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect."
Explanation: This verse emphasizes the importance of renewing the mind to discern and follow God's will, highlighting the transformative power of a Christ-centered mindset.
**2. 2 Corinthians 10:4-5:

"For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ."
Explanation: Paul teaches about spiritual warfare, emphasizing that believers must take every thought captive to align with Christ, thereby overcoming mental strongholds and false arguments.
**3. Philippians 4:8:

"Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things."
Explanation: This verse encourages believers to focus their thoughts on virtuous and praiseworthy things, which helps in maintaining a positive and God-honoring mindset.
**4. Colossians 3:2:

"Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth."
Explanation: Paul instructs believers to focus their thoughts on heavenly realities rather than earthly distractions, fostering a spiritual perspective that aligns with God's purposes.
**5. Ephesians 4:22-24:

"To put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness."
Explanation: This passage underscores the need to renew the spirit of the mind by putting off the old self and embracing the new self, created in God's likeness, leading to true righteousness and holiness.


These scriptures collectively highlight the importance of renewing and guarding the mind in the Christian walk. They emphasize focusing on God's truth, taking thoughts captive to Christ, and setting the mind on heavenly things to overcome the spiritual battlefield of the mind.

Rom 7 comes to mind immediately and I have to admit, going through a thlipsis/ (θλῖψις) and Stenos (στενός) season in my life at the moment.
Shalom

 

[marks]

It is a process which has a fulfillment. Then there is further growth but in holiness not towards it.

What is the difference between growing towards holiness and growing in holiness? Both imply a lack to me. Holiness is, either you are or you are not, at least, how I see it. Holiness speaks of purpose, so we either are or are not living according to God's purpose. Again, as I see it.

Much love!

 

[Johann]

What is the difference between growing towards holiness and growing in holiness? Both imply a lack to me. Holiness is, either you are or you are not, at least, how I see it. Holiness speaks of purpose, so we either are or are not living according to God's purpose. Again, as I see it.

Correct, again and I hope the sister will respond with Scriptures and not quote the early church fathers--this is my last post 12:47 AM and will leave this between you and her.

. 2 Corinthians 7:1:

"Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God."
Explanation: This verse speaks of the process of moving towards the completion of holiness, suggesting an ongoing journey of purification and spiritual growth.
**2. Philippians 3:12-14:

"Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus."
Explanation: Paul acknowledges that he has not yet reached perfection but continues to strive towards the goal, illustrating the journey towards greater holiness.
Growing in Holiness
**1. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4:

"For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor."
Explanation: This passage indicates that sanctification, or growing in holiness, involves practical steps of obedience and self-control, suggesting a process of becoming more holy in one's actions and character.
**2. 2 Peter 3:18:

"But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen."
Explanation: Growing in grace and knowledge implies an ongoing development in holiness, as believers increase in their understanding and application of God's truth.
General Principles of Holiness
**1. Hebrews 12:14:

"Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord."
Explanation: This verse emphasizes the importance of pursuing holiness, which is essential for seeing the Lord, underscoring the necessity of continuous effort in the Christian life.
**2. 1 Peter 1:15-16:

"But as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, since it is written, 'You shall be holy, for I am holy.'"
Explanation: Peter calls believers to be holy in all aspects of their lives, reflecting God's own holiness, indicating that holiness is both a position and a pursuit.
Discussion
Growing Towards Holiness: This phrase emphasizes the directional aspect of sanctification. It suggests a journey where believers are moving closer to the ideal of holiness. This concept acknowledges that believers may not be fully holy in every aspect of their lives but are progressively being transformed and purified to become more like Christ.

Growing in Holiness: This phrase focuses on the progressive increase in holiness within the believer's life. It implies that there is already an element of holiness present, and the believer is becoming more holy through ongoing spiritual growth and obedience to God’s will.

The way I understand it-but maybe the sister will have a different take on this.

Shalom
J.

 

[Johann]

Correct, again and I hope the sister will respond with Scriptures and not quote the early church fathers--this is my last post 12:47 AM and will leave this between you and her.

. 2 Corinthians 7:1:

"Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God."
Explanation: This verse speaks of the process of moving towards the completion of holiness, suggesting an ongoing journey of purification and spiritual growth.
**2. Philippians 3:12-14:

"Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus."
Explanation: Paul acknowledges that he has not yet reached perfection but continues to strive towards the goal, illustrating the journey towards greater holiness.
Growing in Holiness
**1. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4:

"For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor."
Explanation: This passage indicates that sanctification, or growing in holiness, involves practical steps of obedience and self-control, suggesting a process of becoming more holy in one's actions and character.
**2. 2 Peter 3:18:

"But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen."
Explanation: Growing in grace and knowledge implies an ongoing development in holiness, as believers increase in their understanding and application of God's truth.
General Principles of Holiness
**1. Hebrews 12:14:

"Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord."
Explanation: This verse emphasizes the importance of pursuing holiness, which is essential for seeing the Lord, underscoring the necessity of continuous effort in the Christian life.
**2. 1 Peter 1:15-16:

"But as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, since it is written, 'You shall be holy, for I am holy.'"
Explanation: Peter calls believers to be holy in all aspects of their lives, reflecting God's own holiness, indicating that holiness is both a position and a pursuit.
Discussion
Growing Towards Holiness: This phrase emphasizes the directional aspect of sanctification. It suggests a journey where believers are moving closer to the ideal of holiness. This concept acknowledges that believers may not be fully holy in every aspect of their lives but are progressively being transformed and purified to become more like Christ.

Growing in Holiness: This phrase focuses on the progressive increase in holiness within the believer's life. It implies that there is already an element of holiness present, and the believer is becoming more holy through ongoing spiritual growth and obedience to God’s will.

The way I understand it-but maybe the sister will have a different take on this.

Shalom
J.

You may agree to disagree, of course.

 

[Hepzibah]

How many times might one be baptized in the Spirit? More than once? No limit?

Much love!

Once l believe.

 

[Hepzibah]

Agreed! What happens when we both think the Holy Spirit is showing us truth, but we have different things we believe? How do we settle the matter? Because I believe we do that according to what is written. And that we either have a correct understanding of the words, and sentences, and paragraphs, or we do not. I believe that the Bible contains objective truth, and we can believe what it says, once we've determined what that is.

Much love!

Agreed. Nothing is valid if is not in a scripture. But as we often disagree on interpretation, we need another source of authority to check and where better than those who lived nearest the apostles.

Please pray for me brothers l am under attack. Just developed severe vertigo today.

 

[Hepzibah]

What does it mean, "Come to Christ"? If it doesn't mean being born again. Were you justified before being reborn?

Much love!

You would call it saved. I did at the time.

 

[Hepzibah]

Scripture says partaking of His nature. Is there a reason we aren't using Scriptural terminology?

Much love!

I used both.

 

[Hepzibah]

What is the difference between growing towards holiness and growing in holiness? Both imply a lack to me. Holiness is, either you are or you are not, at least, how I see it. Holiness speaks of purpose, so we either are or are not living according to God's purpose. Again, as I see it.

Much love!

Growing within holiness then.

 

[Hepzibah]

Not getting much sleep. I thought l would enlarge on what l have said @marks on losing the blessing. I have read of the phenomenon in Wesley writings where John would go out and investigate cases professing ES.

It is hard for the inexperienced to avoid slipping into what scripture calls leaning on one's own understanding which is the flesh. Not sinful flesh although that is still not in God's will. Good intentions but no good for the spiritual walk. In that state it is possible to fall into sin though it is not likely to be gross sin.

 

[Hepzibah]

I also wish to apologise most sincerely that l was rather short a few times yesterday. Sorry.

 

[Hepzibah]

1 John 3:18-22 KJV
18) My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19) And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20) For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21) Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

In this way.

If we look at ourselves, we can lose confidence with God. However,

1 Peter 3:21 KJV
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

our conscience is not addressed by personal reformation, instead our good conscience is by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

I'm not saying we don't pay attention to the nagging of our conscience. I am saying that doing this or not doing that, these are not what make us right with God.

Much love!

We are made right with God through faith and then it is up to us to co-operative with the pricks to our conscience. If we ignore them which most do, we will end up compromising with sin and lose the first love we had for Him. The whole of scripture pleads with God's people to return and repent. He allows us to get into some very bad spots in order to make us hear Him. The holiness message is behind all of the revivals, the true ones that is, when it is preached with power. Sadly l am lacking that atm.

 

[Hepzibah]

PC in for repair sigh.

 

[marks]

Once l believe.

Is this at the first instance of Theosis? What happens that Theosis ends? How is it one can be in and out then in to Theosis?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Agreed. Nothing is valid if is not in a scripture. But as we often disagree on interpretation, we need another source of authority to check and where better than those who lived nearest the apostles.

Please pray for me brothers l am under attack. Just developed severe vertigo today.

I believe that other source is always the Bible itself.

Paul wrote that after he was gone wolves would come in. I don't think we can look to early - or recent - commentary as though it can settle Scriptural disagreements. I think an open and receptive and prayerful reading of the Bible, and comparing with other passages, settles the matter for us.

I'm very strong on this. The Bible interprets the Bible, and so far I haven't found anything that doesn't work out this way.

Praying for you!!

Much love!

 

[marks]

You would call it saved. I did at the time.

I'm more interesting in knowing what you call it, what you think was happening, where the Bible describes it, like that.

Much love!