The unforgiveable sin ?

[BreadOfLife]

You're grasping at straws. It's better to give your life to Jesus. He died for your sins, salvation is a gift.

No - you're twisting Scripture.
Peter spoke wisely about you . . .

2 Pet 3:16
as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Overcoming is believing. What are we believing in BOL?


Perseverance in scripture is about winning or losing rewards and crowns in heaven. It has nothing to do with Rom 10:9.

Overcoming is NOT believing.
It's enduring to the end.

Rom. 10 9 is about initial belief and salvation.
There are MANY more passages that speak about LOSING this if we do not endure in faith and obedience [SIZE=10pt](Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet.r 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)[/SIZE]

 

[BreadOfLife]

If your memory was fine, then why did you make your false statement that I didn't know how to interpret (Matt. 7:21-23)? Because your lying? lazy? manipulative? I will give you the benefit of the doubt for moderation sake and say it is due to your bad memory. Hard to remember one post from another. I understand.

Stranger

No - it's because you don't know how to interpret that passage.
You pervert Scripture to suit your agenda.

 

[Heb 13:8]

No - you're twisting Scripture.
Peter spoke wisely about you . . .

lol, no not realy. I'm using the Greek. The Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek. Do you know what agape love is in Rev 8:35, 38-39?

Overcoming is NOT believing.
It's enduring to the end.

Rom. 10 9 is about initial belief and salvation.
There are MANY more passages that speak about LOSING this if we do not endure in faith and obedience [SIZE=10pt](Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet.r 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)[/SIZE]

Overcoming is believing. We are believing on the finished work of the cross.

John 16:33 "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

Jesus died for all sins BOL. He's not going to die again. If Christ wasn't raised even those who are dead are lost..

1 Cor 15:12-20 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied. 20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

 

[Stranger]

No - it's because you don't know how to interpret that passage.
You pervert Scripture to suit your agenda.

Oh, because I disagree with you, then I don't know how to interpret? Easy statement. Yet you offered nothing when I gave you the list of my defense in the thread of "Rome and Melchizedek". Your are the king of easy statements without substance.

No, I let Scripture interpret itself. You let others, such as the pope, traditon, the church, interpret Scripture for you. Which is why you are the 'king of easy'.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Oh, because I disagree with you, then I don't know how to interpret? Easy statement. Yet you offered nothing when I gave you the list of my defense in the thread of "Rome and Melchizedek". Your are the king of easy statements without substance.

No, I let Scripture interpret itself. You let others, such as the pope, traditon, the church, interpret Scripture for you. Which is why you are the 'king of easy'.

Stranger

Scripture was never meant to interpret "itself."
This is the false Calvinist doctrine or Perspecuity.

As for Sacred Tradition - YOU may reject it, but the Word of God doesn't:

2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the TRADITIONS you were taught, either by an ORAL STATEMENT - OR by a letter from us."

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

2 Thess. 3:6
"Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the TRADITION that you received from us"

1 Cor. 11:2
"I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the TRADITIONS even as I have delivered them to you".

 

[BreadOfLife]

lol, no not realy. I'm using the Greek. The Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek. Do you know what agape love is in Rev 8:35, 38-39?


Overcoming is believing. We are believing on the finished work of the cross.

John 16:33 "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

Jesus died for all sins BOL. He's not going to die again. If Christ wasn't raised even those who are dead are lost..

1 Cor 15:12-20 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied. 20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

No - "overcoming" is enduring to the end.
Faith is faith and believing is believing and they are never spoken of as "overcoming".

Do you feel that ALL of your sis are forgiven - past, present and future without having to repent.
If so - SHOW me that passage in Scripture. Chapter and verse, please.

 

[Heb 13:8]

No - "overcoming" is enduring to the end.
Faith is faith and believing is believing and they are never spoken of as "overcoming".

No, overcoming, believing and having faith are all synonyms of each other. Why do you think it's called "the finished work of the cross"?

1 John 5:4-5 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Do you feel that ALL of your sis are forgiven - past, present and future without having to repent.
If so - SHOW me that passage in Scripture. Chapter and verse, please.

Of course we repent, but whether we repent daily or not doesn't change the fact that Jesus died for the sins of the world.

 

[Stranger]

Scripture was never meant to interpret "itself."
This is the false Calvinist doctrine or Perspecuity.

As for Sacred Tradition - YOU may reject it, but the Word of God doesn't:

2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the TRADITIONS you were taught, either by an ORAL STATEMENT - OR by a letter from us."

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

2 Thess. 3:6
"Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the TRADITION that you received from us"

1 Cor. 11:2
"I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the TRADITIONS even as I have delivered them to you".

Scripture does interpret itself. Unless you're a Romanist. Then you have to have the pope and others dictate to you what you believe. Makes it easy. You don't have to study the Bible. You just study what you're told. Say what your'e told. Easy. Remember?

There is nothing wrong with tradition if it is right. If it is in accordance with Scripture. But the problem with the Roman church is that much of their tradition is contrary to Scripture and is viewed as being above Scripture. Else you would reject much of what Rome says. But you don't. Cause it's easy.

The Word of God does reject the traditions of men. And that is what the tradition of Rome is. (Matt. 15:3-6) "But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?....Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition." See, the Word of God trumps tradition. Tradition opposed to the Word of God, is heresy.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, overcoming, believing and having faith are all synonyms of each other. Why do you think it's called "the finished work of the cross"?

1 John 5:4-5 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.


Of course we repent, but whether we repent daily or not doesn't change the fact that Jesus died for the sins of the world.

And repenting is part of enduring/overcoming.
Believing is NOT overcoming.

James 2:19 tells us in no uncertain terms that even the DEMONS believe and tremble.
Have THEY overcome??
Are THEY saved??

You're very confused . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Scripture does interpret itself. Unless you're a Romanist. Then you have to have the pope and others dictate to you what you believe. Makes it easy. You don't have to study the Bible. You just study what you're told. Say what your'e told. Easy. Remember?

There is nothing wrong with tradition if it is right. If it is in accordance with Scripture. But the problem with the Roman church is that much of their tradition is contrary to Scripture and is viewed as being above Scripture. Else you would reject much of what Rome says. But you don't. Cause it's easy.

The Word of God does reject the traditions of men. And that is what the tradition of Rome is. (Matt. 15:3-6) "But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?....Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition." See, the Word of God trumps tradition. Tradition opposed to the Word of God, is heresy.

Stranger

More Scriptural ignorance.
Don't you ever tire of being proven wrong??

First of all - Jesus never condemned Tradition. In fact - He employed it.
ALL Traditions are "of men". - and Jesus and the NT writers relied on it:

Matt. 2:23 - the prophecy "He shall be a Nazarene" is ORAL TRADITION. It is not found in the Old Testament. This demonstrates that the apostles relied upon oral tradition and taught by oral tradition.

Matt 23:2 - Jesus relies on the ORAL TRADITION of acknowledging Moses' seat of authority (which passed from Moses to Joshua to the Sanhedrin). This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

John 19:26; 20:2; 21:20,24 - knowing that the "beloved disciple" is John is inferred from Scripture, but is also largely ORAL TRADITION.

Acts 20:35 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the apostles for this statement ("it is better to give than to receive") of Jesus. It is not recorded in the Gospels.

1 Cor. 7:10 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the apostles to give the charge of Jesus that a wife should not separate from her husband.

1 Cor. 10:4 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the rock following Moses. It is not recorded in the Old Testament. See Exodus 17:1-17 and Num. 20:2-13.

Eph 5:14 - Paul relies on ORAL TRADITION to quote an early Christian hymn - "awake O sleeper rise from the dead and Christ shall give you light."

Heb. 11:37 - the author of Hebrews relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the martyrs being sawed in two. This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

Jude 9 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the Archangel Michael's dispute with satan over Moses' body. This is not found in the Old Testament.

Jude 14-15 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of Enoch's prophecy which is not recorded in the Old Testament.

Finally - IF Scripture interprets itself - then tell me why there are almost 50,000 bickering, perpetually-splintering sects of Protestantism - ALL teaching different doctrines based on their individual interpretations of Scripture.

 

[FHII]

The entire Law of Moses is oral tradition. God first spoke it to Moses, then God wrote down the ten commandments then Moses wrote the rest (or had them written down).

But all those verses BOL quoted are no longer oral tradition, just as the Law no longer is.

By the way, some of the verses BOL quoted are reported to be based on other OT verses. I won't comment because while I know the connection, I don't understand it.

Others were actually from written material. Jude quoted the book of Enoch. That book isn't in the Bible, but it was a "book".

What does the Bible say about "traditions"? Well, in the NT I found 13 verses which come down to 5 instances. Remember that the gospels are different testaments of the same event. So some 8 verses are there in 3 gospels, but they are all accounts of one event.

Theres a verse in Gal 1 but its neither pro or con. Simply that Paul profitted from the traditions of his fathers (if anything that would be a negative).

Col 2 and 1 pete 1 give us warnings against traditions of men, while 2 Thes says receive the traditions we (the Apostles) have taught.

Jesus said that the Pharasees make void the commandments of God by their traditions. All this was about the Pharisees getting uppity about the disciples not washing their hands. But there is an important point in what Jesus said.

The bottom line is that the Pharisees made a tradion that contradicted the law (it was about honoring paremts). This is what we shouldn't do.

Having a tradition is fine until it contradicts the Bible's teaching. That doesn't mean it has to be in the Bible. It means it cannot contradict the Bible.

 

[Heb 13:8]

And repenting is part of enduring/overcoming.
Believing is NOT overcoming.

Believing is overcoming, 1 John 5:4-5. Changing your mind about a sin you committed yesterday vs changing your mind about whether Jesus rose from the dead is incomparable.

James 2:19 tells us in no uncertain terms that even the DEMONS believe and tremble.
Have THEY overcome??
Are THEY saved??

It's one thing to believe that Jesus is God, it's another to accept Him as your savior. I believe you answered your own question, lol.

You're very confused . . .

 

[Stranger]

More Scriptural ignorance.
Don't you ever tire of being proven wrong??

First of all - Jesus never condemned Tradition. In fact - He employed it.
ALL Traditions are "of men". - and Jesus and the NT writers relied on it:

Matt. 2:23 - the prophecy "He shall be a Nazarene" is ORAL TRADITION. It is not found in the Old Testament. This demonstrates that the apostles relied upon oral tradition and taught by oral tradition.

Matt 23:2 - Jesus relies on the ORAL TRADITION of acknowledging Moses' seat of authority (which passed from Moses to Joshua to the Sanhedrin). This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

John 19:26; 20:2; 21:20,24 - knowing that the "beloved disciple" is John is inferred from Scripture, but is also largely ORAL TRADITION.

Acts 20:35 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the apostles for this statement ("it is better to give than to receive") of Jesus. It is not recorded in the Gospels.

1 Cor. 7:10 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the apostles to give the charge of Jesus that a wife should not separate from her husband.

1 Cor. 10:4 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the rock following Moses. It is not recorded in the Old Testament. See Exodus 17:1-17 and Num. 20:2-13.

Eph 5:14 - Paul relies on ORAL TRADITION to quote an early Christian hymn - "awake O sleeper rise from the dead and Christ shall give you light."

Heb. 11:37 - the author of Hebrews relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the martyrs being sawed in two. This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

Jude 9 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the Archangel Michael's dispute with satan over Moses' body. This is not found in the Old Testament.

Jude 14-15 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of Enoch's prophecy which is not recorded in the Old Testament.

Finally - IF Scripture interprets itself - then tell me why there are almost 50,000 bickering, perpetually-splintering sects of Protestantism - ALL teaching different doctrines based on their individual interpretations of Scripture.

I just showed you in (Matt.15"3-6) that Jesus condemned tradition when it contradicted the Scripture. As I said, the Word of God trumps tradition.

You continue with your 'google bs', or rather, 'Roman bs'. You are giving Scripture references. These are inspired by God. Thus, they are not 'oral tradition'.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

I just showed you in (Matt.15"3-6) that Jesus condemned tradition when it contradicted the Scripture. As I said, the Word of God trumps tradition.

You continue with your 'google bs', or rather, 'Roman bs'. You are giving Scripture references. These are inspired by God. Thus, they are not 'oral tradition'.

Stranger

It's not "Google" - it's just sound Scriptural research. I've written hundreds of articles for different publications.
If all of this evidence intimidates you - that's YOUR problem.

As for Sacred Tradition - NONE of it contradicts Scripture.
Which one did you have in mind??

 

[BreadOfLife]

Believing is overcoming, 1 John 5:4-5. Changing your mind about a sin you committed yesterday vs changing your mind about whether Jesus rose from the dead is incomparable.


It's one thing to believe that Jesus is God, it's another to accept Him as your savior. I believe you answered your own question, lol.

And that's why I said that mere "believing" is NOT mean that you have "overcome" as you said.
What I have said all along is that overcoming had to do with enduring in faith and obedience - and you are now agreeing with.

PS - "lol" . . .

 

[Heb 13:8]

And that's why I said that mere "believing" is NOT mean that you have "overcome" as you said.
What I have said all along is that overcoming had to do with enduring in faith and obedience - and you are now agreeing with.

PS - "lol" . . .

Mere believing is overcoming. Jesus is not going to come back and die again, lol.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Mere believing is overcoming. Jesus is not going to come back and die again, lol.

Uhhhh, no.
As I already educated you - even the DEMONS believe and tremble but they have NOT overcome (James 2:19).

What part of this verse are you having difficulty with?

 

[Heb 13:8]

Uhhhh, no.
As I already educated you - even the DEMONS believe and tremble but they have NOT overcome (James 2:19).

What part of this verse are you having difficulty with?

the part where the demons don't accept Jesus as savior. lol

 

[Stranger]

It's not "Google" - it's just sound Scriptural research. I've written hundreds of articles for different publications.
If all of this evidence intimidates you - that's YOUR problem.

As for Sacred Tradition - NONE of it contradicts Scripture.
Which one did you have in mind??

Your list of Scripture is Scripture. Not oral tradition. Scripture is inspired by God. You can write hundreds more articles...just means that is hundreds of more heresies being propagated.

Placing tradition above Scripture contradicts Scripture. I showed you in (Matt. 15:3) "But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?" As I said, Scripture trumps tradition.

Do you believe (Matt. 15:3)?

Stranger