“Sophisticated”? What on earth does that mean?
We still maintain the belief that Michael is the pre-human and post-human Jesus. Before his birth as a human, Jesus the man did not exist. The man Jesus died and his resurrection in spirit form allowed him re-entry into heaven. He resumed his former position at God’s right hand. But interestingly the Holy Spirit is never once said to be at God’s left hand. In fact, when Jehovah and his son are mentioned together, the Holy Spirit is invariably missing. (John 17:3)
Part 2
Your last sentence is because you don't understand the Trinity.
Jesus being at God's right hand is a metaphor for being with God as His annointed one, or assistant, or Savior, etc.
Have you ever heard of a CEO speaking about someone as his LEFT HAND MAN?
No. It is always: "He's my right hand man".
Also, Jesus' resurrection was not in spirit form.
He resurrected bodily.
He ate with the Apostles.
Thomas put has finger in
Jesus' wound.
Don't you believe what the bible says?
Or is the New World Translation (the JW version of the bible) so different?
But understanding the difference between a belief and a doctrine is important. You see, we will not make a doctrine out of a belief that is not clearly stated unequivocally in scripture. It is indicated by inference that Michael is Jesus, since only two beings in heaven are said to command the Angels....Micheal and Jesus. It is also said that Jesus has many names, depending on the role that he is engaged in...whereas Jehovah has one role and though he has many titles, he only has one name. (Psalm 83:18)
IF you don't make a doctrine out of a belief, why do you believe Jesus is Michael?
You state above that this is only by inference.
And every Christian believes Psalm 83:18.
The LORD is God Father.
He is the most high over all the earth.
There is only ONE GOD.
Again, this shows no understanding of the Trinity.
The resurrected Jesus still calls the Father “my God” even in heaven. (Revelation 3:12) and he goes on to say that he is the “beginning of God’s creation”. (Revelation 3:14; Colossians 1:15)
Jesus also said
I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE. John 10:30
IF YOU'VE SEEN ME, YOU'VE SEEN THE FATHER. John 14:9
I AM IN THE FATHER AND THE FATHER IS IN ME. John 14:10
The BEGINNING OF GOD'S creation in Rev 3:12 is a reference to Jesus creating everything...as John says in chapter 1.
Nothing was created without Jesus (the 2nd Person).
John 1:2-3
2He was in the beginning with God.
3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
Again, this refers to Jesus being the Word of God.
Everything was created by God speaking the Words:
Genesis 1:3, 6, 9, 11, 14, 20, 24, 26
God's WORD is JESUS - who existed as the 2nd Person of the Trinity.
The trinity is based on conjecture and inference but is stated as a doctrine by Christendom. That is the difference. There is no trinity expressly stated in any scripture...only words that might suggest it.
Yet when you understand the flimsy nature of that belief and then see that all of Christendom’s beliefs rest on this one shaky unproven foundation, it wouldn’t take much to topple the whole structure.
Well AJ, it hasn't toppled in 2,000 years and Jesus said that the gates of Hades - hell - would not prevail on the church that was built by Jesus since He was rejected by the Jews.
A doctrine is a teaching. If your theologians believe something and it is taught, that is a doctrine.
Ditto for the Christian denominations. If the denomination BELIEVES something to be true, then that is what it will teach and this is a doctrine.j
If words suggest there is a trinity -- perhaps there is?
When Jesus was baptized all 3 of the Trinity were present:
Jesus was being baptized
Father made a statement about Him
The Holy Spirit came down from heaven
Matthew 3:16-17
16After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,
17and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”
This is the Trinity before it was named that.
We can see this again in
John 16:7-10
7“But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
8“And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
9concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;
10and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me;
The helper is the Holy Spirit
The Father
and Jesus speaking is the 2nd Person
To insist that Jesus is Almighty God is actually a breach of the first Commandment. Another two gods are placed in the same position as Jehovah, who alone is “the Most High” and has no equal.
Correct.
And this is why the Sanhedrin wanted Jesus dead.
Because He claimed to be God.
Why do you think Caiaphas tore his tunic?
Because he believed Jesus had uttered pure blasphemy by saying He was God.
Matthew 26:63-66
63But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest said to Him, “I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God.”
64Jesus said to him, “You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.”
65Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has blasphemed! What further need do we have of witnesses? Behold, you have now heard the blasphemy;
66what do you think?” They answered, “He deserves death!”
Understanding what the word “theos” means in Greek allows a whole different view of this situation.
To the Greeks, who had a multitude of gods, “theos” is simply a “divine mighty one”. All of their flawed gods had names but there was no word for the singular God of Israel, so at the time when the Greek scriptures were penned...Jehovah was nameless. The Jews had long ceased using the divine name in their speech, although it was still written in their scripture. They were just forbidden from uttering it. Jesus said he had come to make his Father’s name known to his disciples. (John 17:26)
If the Jews had continued to use the divine name to identify Jehovah, then the trinity could never have been invented.
The prime scripture used to promote the trinity (John 1:1) would therefore say.....
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Jehovah and the Word was divine.”
Where is the problem?
Jehovah is God.
The Word was with God.
The Jews did not spell God's name in full...this is still practiced today.
they spell God: G_D. Yahweh is YHWY which cannot be pronounced.
I don't understand your point.
A divine mighty one would be God Father.
There is no disputing that Jesus was of divine origin, but being divine, did not make him Almighty God.
If he was the Almighty, he surely would have said so....but he never did...not once.
Almighty God is God Father - the bearer of the Trinity.
Jesus is not Almighty God, but the 2nd Person of the Trinity -
I am sure that they are not, since they are not guilty of breaking God’s law. (Exodus 20:3)
He did not say you shall have “no other Gods but us”....he said you shall have “no other gods but ME”.
The Jewish Shema stated..... “Yahweh our God is one Yahweh” (Deuteronomy 6:4) If God is one, then there cannot be three. The trinity teaches “God the Father”, “God the Son” and “God the Holy Spirit” that is three gods. Nowhere in scripture will I find the second two titles ever mentioned.
It is NOT 3 gods.
It is ONE GOD, the Trinity speaks of God's natures and how we could understand them.
Are you a mother, aunt, daughter, sister, cousin - and who knows what else.
Yet you are only one person - but with different roles or natures -
Did you ever see this? I would have to assume you have...
