The Trinity

[Cooper]

One God in heaven and on earth, not three Gods.

1 Corinthians 12:4-6 “There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord [Jesus]. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God [Father] who works all in all.”

Matthew 28:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit”

Luke 3:22 “And the Holy Spirit descended upon Him [Jesus] in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, “You are My [the Father’s] beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.”

John 14:26 “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My [Jesus’] name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.”

John 15:26 “When the Helper comes, whom I [Jesus] will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me . . .”

Acts 1:4,5 “And being assembled together with them, He [Jesus] commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

Acts 2:33 “Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He [Jesus] has poured forth this which you both see and hear.”

1 Corinthians 6:11 “Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.”

2 Corinthians 13:14 “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God the Father, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.”

Ephesians 2:18 “For through Him [Jesus] we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.”

Ephesians 2:22 “In whom [Jesus] you also are being built together into a dwelling of God [Father] in the Spirit.”

Titus 3:6 “Whom [the Holy Spirit] He [the Father] poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior.”

Hebrews 9:14 “How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God [Father], cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?”

1 Peter 1:2 “According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: may grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.”

Ephesians 4:4-6 “There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord [Jesus], one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”

Please do not let anyone say there is no trinity in the Bible.
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[amadeus]

Jesus is the one God made visible.
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Jesus said that he was the Light of the world [from John 9:5] so that people could see, but then when he was no longer in the world, how were people to see?

"Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid." Matt 5:14

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." John 14:12

Are we visible gods?

 

[marks]

Do you know why? Because Aussies are straight talkers, and we don't tip-toe around people's sensibilities as if they are a legitimate reason not to speak the truth.

That's not why.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I will leave you to ponder these questions....

OK.

One day, you too, shall bow . . . and confess, that Jesus Christ is LORD.

Much love!

 

[Cooper]

Jesus said that he was the Light of the world [from John 9:5] so that people could see, but then when he was no longer in the world, how were people to see?

"Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid." Matt 5:14

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." John 14:12

Are we visible gods?

As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. (Joh 9:5 KJV)
When Jesus was in the world as a Man, He was the light of the world in a very direct and special way. As He went about performing miracles and teaching the people, they saw the light of the world before their very eyes. The Lord Jesus is still the Light of the world, and all who come to Him are promised that they will not walk in darkness. However, in this verse, the Lord was speaking particularly of His public ministry on earth.

Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hid. (Mat 5:14 KJV)
Jesus also calls Christians the light of the world. He spoke of Himself as “the light of the world” (Joh_8:12; Joh_12:35-36, Joh_12:46). The relationship between these two statements is that Jesus is the source of light; Christians are the reflection of His light. Their function is to shine for Him, just as the moon reflects the glory of the sun. The Christian is like a city that is set on a hill: it is elevated above its surroundings, and it shines in the midst of darkness. Those whose lives exhibit the traits of Christ's teaching cannot be hidden.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. (Joh 14:12 KJV)
Jesus said, "I say unto YOU. He was speaking to the disciples,
“What Jesus means we may see in the narratives of the Acts. There are a few miracles of healing, but the emphasis is on the mighty works of conversion. On the day of Pentecost alone, more believers were added to the little band of believers than throughout Christ’s entire earthly life. There we see a literal fulfillment of ‘greater works than these shall he do.’” (Morris)

I am no god. The scriptures you quoted were said to the apostles. I think Paul had it right when he spoke about Running the Race
Press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in anything ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. (Php 3:13-15 KJV)

Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. (1Co 9:24 KJV)

Lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. (Heb 12:1-2 KJV)

Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we, an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. (1Co 9:24-27 KJV)

Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain. (Php 2:16 KJV)

Source: Various commentaries.

 

[Wrangler]

Please do not let anyone say there is no trinity in the Bible.

There is no trinity in the Bible. The verses you cite are not precisely an explicit statement of the trinity but you want to think they do.

 

[Cooper]

There is no trinity in the Bible. The verses you cite are not precisely an explicit statement of the trinity but you want to think they do.

One omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, infinite, God, as opposed to the god of one nation.

Col_2:9 For in him (Jesus) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
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[amigo de christo]

A lot of persons say scary things.
Nowhere does it say A LOVE GOD.
Also some have created a God with No Love...
The reformed. Maybe that is Even More scary.
It would be a God that created us, but does not care a hoot about us.
How lonely that sounds.

And we must follow neither side . One side , WHICH is FAR FAR LARGER promotes a false love
the other side promotes as you said .
WE must follow neither .
God is love , the SOLUTION IS JESUS , loving every single word or thing he ever said or taught as well as what the appostels taught .

 

[amigo de christo]

Jesus is the one God made visible.
.

Dig deeper cooper . GOD didnt make JESUS . JESUS IS HIS WORD . God speaks and His own essence is in what he speaks .
JESUS IS the very Express image of GOD . HE IS HOW GOD CREATED ALL that WAS . GOD SPOKE
, GODS WORD IS HIS OWN ESSENCE . The Word is GOD HE is His word . A mystery ...........i know .
But JESUS was not created .

 

[amadeus]

I am no god. The scriptures you quoted were said to the apostles. I think Paul had it right when he spoke about Running the Race
...
Source: Various commentaries.

Even if they were said initially to the apostles, why is it that we are reading them? Has God never spoke to anyone but those first apostles? Has He never spoken to you or to me? Do those cited scriptures have no message from God to us today?

I am not disagreeing with the scriptures posted; nor your words; nor the commentaries, which are the words of other men, be they led by the Spirit, or speaking from their own heads. God knows all of the answers. Do we?

As to being a god, neither would I, I guess, be a god, as you apparently mean it, but what do you suppose the psalmist was saying here?

"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes." Psalm 82:6-7

Now look at some of the types or shadows in the OT:

What was Joseph to Pharaoh?

"Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou.
And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, See, I have set thee over all the land of Egypt." Gen 41:40-41

Does that sound a bit like the Father and Jesus?

What was Aaron to Moses, and Moses to Pharaoh?

"And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land." Exodus 7:1-2

Then look at Jesus and his Father:

"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." John 14:28

Has Jesus changed to become less than his Father... or was he always less? If he is God, how could that be?

"For I am the LORD, I change not..." Malachi 3:6
And so then what is happening here according to Paul?

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." I Cor 15:26-28

Has God changed? Is God changing? Will God change?

 

[Cooper]

Dig deeper cooper . GOD didnt make JESUS . JESUS IS HIS WORD . God speaks and His own essence is in what he speaks .
JESUS IS the very Express image of GOD . HE IS HOW GOD CREATED ALL that WAS . GOD SPOKE
, GODS WORD IS HIS OWN ESSENCE . The Word is GOD HE is His word . A mystery ...........i know .
But JESUS was not created .

I did not say Jesus was created. He was the creator. Now listen to this. When Jesus humbled himself and came down from heaven's glory, he left his miracle wonder, working power behind in his humility. So when He spoke of his Father, he was speaking of his glory that he had temporarily left behind, substituting it for the flesh. Jesus and the Father which is Christ's glory are One God in every degree, and it is Jesus who when he took up his glory again, is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. One day He, Jesus will be returning in all his glory.
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[amigo de christo]

I did not say Jesus was created. He was the creator. Now listen to this. When Jesus humbled himself and came down from heaven's glory, he left his miracle wonder, working power behind in his humility. So when He spoke of his Father, he was speaking of his glory that he had temporarily left behind, substituting it for the flesh. Jesus and the Father which is Christ's glory are One God in every degree, and it is Jesus who is King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
.

So long as we both know JESUS was not created but rather the WORD is GOD and GOD is His Word , that is good enough for me my friend .

 

[Cooper]

So long as we both know JESUS was not created but rather the WORD is GOD and GOD is His Word , that is good enough for me my friend .

You think there are three thrones for one God don't you.
.

 

[amigo de christo]

You think there are three thrones for one God don't you.
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THERE IS ONLY ONE THRONE FOR ONE GOD . Just as i am sat DOWN in MY FATHERS THRONE .
There is not three gods , ONLY ONE GOD . The sooner folks realize that the better .
JESUS himself said the very words that GOD did , I am ALPHA and OMEGA , the first and the last , the beginning and the end .

 

[Cooper]

THERE IS ONLY ONE THRONE FOR ONE GOD . Just as i am sat DOWN in MY FATHERS THRONE .
There is not three gods , ONLY ONE GOD . The sooner folks realize that the better .
JESUS himself said the very words that GOD did , I am ALPHA and OMEGA , the first and the last , the beginning and the end .

Lovely. God bless.
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[Cooper]

Even if they were said initially to the apostles, why is it that we are reading them? Has God never spoke to anyone but those first apostles? Has He never spoken to you or to me? Do those cited scriptures have no message from God to us today?

I am not disagreeing with the scriptures posted; nor your words; nor the commentaries, which are the words of other men, be they led by the Spirit, or speaking from their own heads. God knows all of the answers. Do we?

As to being a god, neither would I, I guess, be a god, as you apparently mean it, but what do you suppose the psalmist was saying here?

"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes." Psalm 82:6-7

Now look at some of the types or shadows in the OT:

What was Joseph to Pharaoh?

"Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou.
And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, See, I have set thee over all the land of Egypt." Gen 41:40-41

Does that sound a bit like the Father and Jesus?

What was Aaron to Moses, and Moses to Pharaoh?

"And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land." Exodus 7:1-2

Then look at Jesus and his Father:

"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." John 14:28

Has Jesus changed to become less than his Father... or was he always less? If he is God, how could that be?

"For I am the LORD, I change not..." Malachi 3:6
And so then what is happening here according to Paul?

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." I Cor 15:26-28

Has God changed? Is God changing? Will God change?

The gods in psalm 82 were human judges and they were wicked self-seeking men.
I shall be turning in for the night shortly, so we can discuss this tomorrow. There is a lot to think about. God bless till then.
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[GodsGrace]

The problem with modalism is that the three persons do not co-exist, whereas the three attributes of the triathlete co-exist together in one person.

Not to worry, try this for size. You will have seen the TV program "Under Cover Boss" whereby the creator of a big company, perhaps Henry Ford, leaves his office, changes his appearance, calls himself John Doe, puts on overalls and goes to work on the shop floor. Point being, John Doe and Henry Ford are One, in the same way I believe Father and Son are one. After all before his incarnation Jesus was the creator of heaven and earth. He was the WORD in the beginning.

Although people had never seen John Doe before, he had the same beginning as Henry Ford, they are One.

God is One, Henry Ford and John Doe are one. John Doe while talking to the people could truthfully have said, "What Henry Ford does, I do and what I do Henry Ford does."

When people spoke to John Doe, they were talking to Henry Ford.

When Jesus taught us to say "Our Father" in the Lord's prayer (Jesus is Lord) guess who we are praying to...

God is One. We only need to believe in one God, anything else would be wrong, but the Bible clearly tells us that Jesus is God with us.
.

Your examples are good.
I wish everyone would accept them that calls themselves a Christian.

 

[GodsGrace]

It is his post 235 and I read it for it was made in response to my post 202. Jesus' prayer is for unity in the Body of Christ.

Reading my post 202 carefully you might understand why it does not change my position at all on my understanding of the nature of God.

I cannot believe in a Multiplicity so for me that throws out the Trinity as well. I cannot embrace a Trinity. I can embrace the Consuming fire that is the One God.

I do not insist that anyone agree with me. Each person must move as he is led by the Spirit.

Why the division here? God knows that too.

I have already covered all of these things and more many times on this forum and on others. I could reargue every point, but I know it is not in me to change anyone else. They keep on insisting that I must change and want to argue. I do not. I simply want to serve God. If God presses me change then that is certainly my desire.

Back to the lowest room one more time where I have gone so many times before... From there? God does know!

You know Amadeus...
The most important question in the N.T. is WHO DO YOU SAY THAT I AM?
Matthew 6:15

I don't know what you believe...I've known you to be a very Christian person.
But from the beginning of the church, Jesus was believed to be God.
If we're to trust the N.T. then we can believe that He was perfect,,,
and no human can be.

 

[GodsGrace]

Dig deeper cooper . GOD didnt make JESUS . JESUS IS HIS WORD . God speaks and His own essence is in what he speaks .
JESUS IS the very Express image of GOD . HE IS HOW GOD CREATED ALL that WAS . GOD SPOKE
, GODS WORD IS HIS OWN ESSENCE . The Word is GOD HE is His word . A mystery ...........i know .
But JESUS was not created .

I think @Cooper means that God is visible to us through Jesus.
I do believe this is correct....
IF YOU'VE SEEN ME
YOU'VE SEEN THE FATHER....

 

[amadeus]

You know Amadeus...
The most important question in the N.T. is WHO DO YOU SAY THAT I AM?
Matthew 6:15

Here is Peter's answer and I agree with it:

"And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Matt 16:16

That does not confirm a Trinity...not to me!

I don't know what you believe...I've known you to be a very Christian person.
But from the beginning of the church, Jesus was believed to be God.
If we're to trust the N.T. then we can believe that He was perfect,,,
and no human can be.

What is impossible for God? [see Mark 10:27]

Very simply I believe God and His Word. I have explained many times here and elsewhere where I am on this issue and why. Many people disagree with me, and some of them allow me some slack. Others do not. I have to stand with what I understand from God until and if He shows me something different. From Him alone comes any increase [read: change if you will].