THE TRANSGENDERISM OF CHRISTIANITY

[Stewardofthemystery]

I will ask again, as a child of God. Are you under law. Or are you under grace.

Under grace of course, but that in no way suggests that we are lawless. The New Covenant Jesus brought into effect is God writing His law and testimony upon on hearts and minds by the Holy Spirit.

Isaiah 8:16
Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Under grace of course, but that in no way suggests that we are lawless.

will you please do me a favor and do not add anything to what I am saying, I never suggested or even hinted at a fact we can be lawless.

The New Covenant Jesus brought into effect is God writing His law and testimony upon on hearts and minds by the Holy Spirit.

Isaiah 8:16
Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

So you would agree then that we are not under law but under grace.

do you understand the requirement of the law. In other words. How many times could a person break a command and still not be cursed by the law.

remember, Moses spoke of a curse which would come to anyone who did not keep a certain standard. Do you know what that standard was?

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

the law of sin and death is the law given moses.

No, that is a BIG misunderstanding.

Here is a post I made on the topic…

I have come across a grave error in my internet travels, and that error is in thinking that the law of God is a curse, and is sin.


The law of God is also the words of God; and so I would ask, is God's words also sin and death? Of course not! And for one to equate God's words of Life as sin and death is nothing short of blasphemy in my opinion.

It would be the same as equating the works of the Holy Spirit to the works of the Devil. Many believe the Law of God is "the law of sin and death" that Paul spoke of in his letters. But Paul makes clear in Romans 7:7 that the law of God is not sin.

So what is the law of sin and death? I compare the law of sin and death to be much like the law of gravity; we are all firstborn “under it”naturally by reason of Adams original sin.

Romans 5:12 “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”

As it is also written in Romans 5:19 “For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,” So as it is also written, “by nature”we were the children of wrath Ephesians 2:3; and as by the judgement of one for sin was unto condemnationRomans 5:16 as the wages of sin is death= being “under the law of sin and death.”

It is an absolute principle “in nature,”much like the law of gravity.

We know this condemnation of sin was already in the world before the Law of Moses because sin and death already reigned in the world.

Romans 5:13 Notice we are told death reigned Romans 5:14“Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.”

That is an important clue in understanding what it means to be “under the law of sin and death.”

When you are under the law of sin you are a “servant of sin,” like sin being the Devils desire “ruling over”you as it is written in Romans 5:21 “That as sin hath reigned unto death…”

People try to use Romans 7 as an excuse for ongoing sin, even saying Paul was still struggling with sin. But one needs to keep in mind what Paul said to his audience in Romans 6:19

19 I speak after “the manner of men”because of the infirmity of your flesh:”

Paul was trying to relate to a “carnal”audience who was still “struggling with sin” because they were still in “the flesh"(as is the “mannerism”of mankind) like a natural brute beast.

What Paul was showing in Romans 7 was the struggle and “enmity between” the law of the flesh and the law of the Spirit, as these 2 spirits and 2 natures are contrary to one another.


Notice in Romans 7 we are shown 2 laws, one is “the law of sin and death,” and the other is the law of God. We already saw in Romans 7:7 that the law of God is not sin, now notice Paul confirms in verse 13 the law of God is not death either.

Romans 7:12-25 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then “a law,”that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see “another law”in my members, warringagainst the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to “the law of sin”which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with “the flesh” the law of sin.

In the above we see the 2 laws at work (flesh vs. Spirit) warring against one another. But are we to remain in this state of captivity and bondage being under the law of sin and death?

Scripture gives us the answer to this as well in Romans 8:1-4 “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus “hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak “through the flesh,”God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

What we see in the above is walking after the fleshis serving sin and =being “under the law of sin and death.”

Thus when we are born again of the Spirit we are no longer walking in the lusts of the flesh.

Notice what Paul says in Romans 8:9 “But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”


So it is the Spirit of Christ (the law of the Spirit of Life) that makes us free from the first nature and law that desires to walk in the flesh and serve sin.

Now some might say this does not mean we are set free from sin and death, just that we are set free from the law of God.


But that is not what is being said above by Paul. To what benefit would it serve to be only set free from a holy law, and not be made free from sin and death?

All that would amount to is a bunch of lawless sinners. Besides that, the Gentiles were never even under the Law of Moses to begin with, so how can you be set free from a law that you were never even under? Makes no sense.

But the law that both Jews and Gentiles are firstborn “under,”is the “law of sin and death.”

Romans 3:9 “What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are “all under sin;”

So hopefully you will see in this that it is sin you truly need to be made free from, because a servant of sin abides not in the house forever.

Peace and God bless

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Moses spoke of a curse which would come to anyone who did not keep a certain standard. Do you know what that standard was?

First you need to understand what brought on the curse. Here is another post I wrote….

Many believe the law itself is “the curse” mentioned, but scripture tells us Gods law is holy, just, and good in Romans 7:12“Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.”

So what was the curse? The curse of the law came in by 2 ways, the first is shown here in Deuteronomy 27:26 “Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.”

The first part of this curse has to do with sin as it is written in Romans 7:10-11“And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.”

Again we see the law was ordained unto life, but the curse came when man being yet flesh could not keep “all the words of the law to do them”, because of the weakness of his flesh and sin.

So who’s the bad guy here, the law of Moses, or sin? If you answered sin then you would be correct.

Now for the second part of the curse, which is swearing to the oath. It is written Galatians 3:10“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”

After Moses had read the law, all the blessings and the curses, the people then bound themselves to the oath by agreeing to keep everything that was written in the law. The word oath in Hebrew can also be defined and shown as the word curse in scripture.
And swearing to an oath can also be shown as binding ones soul to a curse as in Nehemiah 10:29 “They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the Lord our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes;”

And in Daniel 9:11 “Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.”

And here is where the curse came in by swearing themselves to the oath in Numbers 30:2 “If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.”

And so being unable to perform the vow to God to keep the whole law, because of the weakness of the flesh and of sin, then the curses mentioned in the law were put into effect. Even in the law of Moses God warned the people of forswearing an oath to God.

Which is why Jesus said Matthew 5:33-37 “Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.”

And here again also in James 5:12 “But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.”

And a word to the wise, if you ever have to go to court and are asked to forswear yourself to an oath, or any other vow or oath for that matter…don’t do it!

Let me add these thoughts. The curse of the law is sin, Christ was made to be sin for us (made a curse for us). The law was weak because of our fleshy sin nature, which is the enmity that had to be removed from our hearts and minds by the Spirit of God. But the law itself was not sin ( Romans 7:7) sin is sin.

But even still the outward letter of the law is not of faith being written outwardly and not written inwardly in our hearts and minds by the Spirit.
But so too sin is not of faith either, is it? Think about it, is a sinner abiding in the faith of Jesus Christ? Hardly. But now think about this, if we remove the law from the world do you also remove sin from the world? No, because sin was even in the world before the law.

So the best way to remove sin in the world is for people to stop sinning right? This is also why Jesus Christ came into the world to condemn sin in the flesh, to destroy the body of sin in us, and to make us free from the bondage of sin.

And guess what happens when you remove sin? You also remove the need for a law which condemns sin. For it is written the law was made for sinners and for the unrighteous; not for those who are righteous.
So we conclude, to remove the law is not to remove sin; but to remove sin is to also to remove the curse of the law, which condemns sin.

But make no mistake; there is still condemnation for sin even without the law. For Christ condemned sin in the flesh; and if you are still in the flesh, then you are also still under the condemnation of sin.
That is why it is written, there is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

And the only way to pass from flesh to Spirit, and from death to life, is by being born again of the Holy Spirit of Christ.

Peace and God bless

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, that is a BIG misunderstanding.

sorry but, but it is not

Paul proved this by his words in Gal 3. He spoke over and over about this law vs grace. And in every case. The context was the law given to moses.

Here is a post I made on the topic…

I have come across a grave error in my internet travels, and that error is in thinking that the law of God is a curse, and is sin.

It is. God made it a curse when he gave it. Can you go back to Deuteronomy and see this this is true?

The law of God is also the words of God; and so I would ask, is God's words also sin and death? Of course not! And for one to equate God's words of Life as sin and death is nothing short of blasphemy in my opinion.

Why did God give the law? Paul answered this in Gal 3. Did he not say that he would not have known sin, unless the command said do not do this.

and did he also not say that when sin came the command revived and he found it to cause death?

It would be the same as equating the works of the Holy Spirit to the works of the Devil. Many believe the Law of God is "the law of sin and death" that Paul spoke of in his letters. But Paul makes clear in Romans 7:7 that the law of God is not sin.

Um no it would not

So what is the law of sin and death? I compare the law of sin and death to be much like the law of gravity; we are all firstborn “under it”naturally by reason of Adams original sin.

Romans 5:12 “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”

As it is also written in Romans 5:19 “For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,” So as it is also written, “by nature”we were the children of wrath Ephesians 2:3; and as by the judgement of one for sin was unto condemnationRomans 5:16 as the wages of sin is death= being “under the law of sin and death.”

It is an absolute principle “in nature,”much like the law of gravity.

We know this condemnation of sin was already in the world before the Law of Moses because sin and death already reigned in the world.

Romans 5:13 Notice we are told death reigned Romans 5:14“Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.”

That is an important clue in understanding what it means to be “under the law of sin and death.”

When you are under the law of sin you are a “servant of sin,” like sin being the Devils desire “ruling over”you as it is written in Romans 5:21 “That as sin hath reigned unto death…”

Yes, i agree here, But it goes deeper than this.

You can not convict a person of a crime, unless there is a law that states there is a crime commited..

People try to use Romans 7 as an excuse for ongoing sin, even saying Paul was still struggling with sin. But one needs to keep in mind what Paul said to his audience in Romans 6:19

19 I speak after “the manner of men”because of the infirmity of your flesh:”

Paul was trying to relate to a “carnal”audience who was still “struggling with sin” because they were still in “the flesh"(as is the “mannerism”of mankind) like a natural brute beast.

What Paul was showing in Romans 7 was the struggle and “enmity between” the law of the flesh and the law of the Spirit, as these 2 spirits and 2 natures are contrary to one another.


Notice in Romans 7 we are shown 2 laws, one is “the law of sin and death,” and the other is the law of God. We already saw in Romans 7:7 that the law of God is not sin, now notice Paul confirms in verse 13 the law of God is not death either.

Romans 7:12-25 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then “a law,”that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see “another law”in my members, warringagainst the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to “the law of sin”which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with “the flesh” the law of sin.

In the above we see the 2 laws at work (flesh vs. Spirit) warring against one another. But are we to remain in this state of captivity and bondage being under the law of sin and death?

Scripture gives us the answer to this as well in Romans 8:1-4 “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus “hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak “through the flesh,”God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

What we see in the above is walking after the fleshis serving sin and =being “under the law of sin and death.”

Thus when we are born again of the Spirit we are no longer walking in the lusts of the flesh.

Notice what Paul says in Romans 8:9 “But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”


So it is the Spirit of Christ (the law of the Spirit of Life) that makes us free from the first nature and law that desires to walk in the flesh and serve sin.

Now some might say this does not mean we are set free from sin and death, just that we are set free from the law of God.


But that is not what is being said above by Paul. To what benefit would it serve to be only set free from a holy law, and not be made free from sin and death?

All that would amount to is a bunch of lawless sinners. Besides that, the Gentiles were never even under the Law of Moses to begin with, so how can you be set free from a law that you were never even under? Makes no sense.

But the law that both Jews and Gentiles are firstborn “under,”is the “law of sin and death.”

Romans 3:9 “What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are “all under sin;”

So hopefully you will see in this that it is sin you truly need to be made free from, because a servant of sin abides not in the house forever.

Peace and God bless

I am not here to talk about romans 7

I am here to discuss the difference between the law and grace.

Can we do this first. Can you answer my question or are you unable to?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

First you need to understand what brought on the curse. Here is another post I wrote….

Many believe the law itself is “the curse” mentioned, but scripture tells us Gods law is holy, just, and good in Romans 7:12“Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.”

So what was the curse? The curse of the law came in by 2 ways, the first is shown here in Deuteronomy 27:26 “Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.”

The first part of this curse has to do with sin as it is written in Romans 7:10-11“And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.”

Again we see the law was ordained unto life, but the curse came when man being yet flesh could not keep “all the words of the law to do them”, because of the weakness of his flesh and sin.

So who’s the bad guy here, the law of Moses, or sin? If you answered sin then you would be correct.

Now for the second part of the curse, which is swearing to the oath. It is written Galatians 3:10“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”

After Moses had read the law, all the blessings and the curses, the people then bound themselves to the oath by agreeing to keep everything that was written in the law. The word oath in Hebrew can also be defined and shown as the word curse in scripture.
And swearing to an oath can also be shown as binding ones soul to a curse as in Nehemiah 10:29 “They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the Lord our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes;”

And in Daniel 9:11 “Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.”

And here is where the curse came in by swearing themselves to the oath in Numbers 30:2 “If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.”

And so being unable to perform the vow to God to keep the whole law, because of the weakness of the flesh and of sin, then the curses mentioned in the law were put into effect. Even in the law of Moses God warned the people of forswearing an oath to God.

Which is why Jesus said Matthew 5:33-37 “Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.”

And here again also in James 5:12 “But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.”

And a word to the wise, if you ever have to go to court and are asked to forswear yourself to an oath, or any other vow or oath for that matter…don’t do it!

Let me add these thoughts. The curse of the law is sin, Christ was made to be sin for us (made a curse for us). The law was weak because of our fleshy sin nature, which is the enmity that had to be removed from our hearts and minds by the Spirit of God. But the law itself was not sin ( Romans 7:7) sin is sin.

But even still the outward letter of the law is not of faith being written outwardly and not written inwardly in our hearts and minds by the Spirit.
But so too sin is not of faith either, is it? Think about it, is a sinner abiding in the faith of Jesus Christ? Hardly. But now think about this, if we remove the law from the world do you also remove sin from the world? No, because sin was even in the world before the law.

So the best way to remove sin in the world is for people to stop sinning right? This is also why Jesus Christ came into the world to condemn sin in the flesh, to destroy the body of sin in us, and to make us free from the bondage of sin.

And guess what happens when you remove sin? You also remove the need for a law which condemns sin. For it is written the law was made for sinners and for the unrighteous; not for those who are righteous.
So we conclude, to remove the law is not to remove sin; but to remove sin is to also to remove the curse of the law, which condemns sin.

But make no mistake; there is still condemnation for sin even without the law. For Christ condemned sin in the flesh; and if you are still in the flesh, then you are also still under the condemnation of sin.
That is why it is written, there is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

And the only way to pass from flesh to Spirit, and from death to life, is by being born again of the Holy Spirit of Christ.

Peace and God bless

lol. Do you always read this way when people ask you a question>

Here you are excusing your own sin, while you are attacking people for saying they can sin all the want

James made it clear. If we keep the whole law. Yet we stumble in one point, we are guilty of the whole law

paul also made it clear. The law brings wrath, the law brings death.

why are you so against this?

You posting a bunch of scripture will not help you. Can you talk like a man, or do you just want to push your view down my throat?

Why are you so afraid?

The wage of sin is death, the gift of God is life.

it does not matter how many sins you commit. If you just stumble in one point. As james said, you are guilty of the law..

Jesus suffered that curse for us, he DIED ON THE CROSS. He suffered your curse so you, who wad dead in tresspasses and sins could be made alive in Christ.

was paul wrong?

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

sorry but, but it is not

These verses below show the difference between the law of God vs. the law of sin…

Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then “a law,”that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see “another law”in my members, warringagainst the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to “the law of sin”which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with “the flesh” the law of sin.”

The above verses prove without a doubt that the law of sin is opposed to the law of God, and they are not speaking of the same law.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Why did God give the law? Paul answered this in Gal 3. Did he not say that he would not have known sin, unless the command said do not do this.

Jesus did the same as the law…

John 15:22
If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

The law brings wrath, the law brings death.

You have got the wrong idea about what brings forth wrath and death. The wages of sin brings death and wrath….

Again notice the law was ordained unto life, and is holy, just, and good…But it is sin that brings forth death.

Romans 7:7-13

King James Version

​

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

These verses below show the difference between the law of God vs. the law of sin…

Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then “a law,”that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see “another law”in my members, warringagainst the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to “the law of sin”which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with “the flesh” the law of sin.”

The above verses prove without a doubt that the law of sin is opposed to the law of God, and they are not speaking of the same law.

The law of God is the law that says cursed is the one who does not obey every word.

The law of sin appose that word. it says I can sin, and the law of God will not punish me.

The law of God is also different in that it can only be fulfilled in two ways

1. Love the lord your God and your neighbor as yourself. In those to commands are all the law and prophets fulfilled

the problem is, Only christ perfectly obeyed these two commands, the rest of us have not. Do not. And will not do this perfectly, as required by the law

2. Seek after the things of the spirit, and you will not fulfill the lists of the flesh

the lusts of the flesh are as follow

Gal 5: 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Now if you look at these. You will see the ten commands as well as other commands here. When we do the lusts of the flesh, the law of moses them comes and condemned us, Because we are guilty of breaking the command. And the wage of sin is death.

the second thing you see is those who PRACTICE these things (ie, they do these things every day of their life. It is their nature. It is how they live) they will not inherit the kingdom of God.

it does not say that if we do them we will not inherit them, it says if we practice them

if doing just one of these things keep us from inheriting eternal life. Then no one will make it to heaven, we are all lost.. there is no hope

WHich is why Paul said when we seek after the things of the spirit

the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 [g]gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law

we see there is no law. Why? because we have ot broken a command, and as such, we have fulfilled the law when we are in this state of mind

But paul also warns us not to provoke one another. Even we who are saved can fall into this flesh trap.

this is what Paul spoke of in Romans 7, the eternal stuggle we all suffer (if we are honest with ourselves) as children of God. The daily struggle to not serve self. To lack faith in God in some things. To come on a situation, and shoes to serve self. Not God.

Thats why we are not under law but under grace. Because the law can nto touch us, we have overcome. Why? because we are such great people? Because we have arrived?

no because of our faith. (I pray you knw this passage that says this)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You have got the wrong idea about what brings forth wrath and death. The wages of sin brings death and wrath….

BECAUE OF THE LAW

Again notice the law was ordained unto life, and is holy, just, and good…But it is sin that brings forth death.

Romans 7:7-13​

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King James Version​

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7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Why are you stiuck on romans 7, is this the only section of the word that talks about salvation?

The wage of sin is death, the gift of God is life, through Jesus our lord.

Are you given life because you no longer sin? Because you do not do certain sins? because you do less sins than you did before?

or are you given life because you trusted in Jesus and he saved you?

Romans 3:
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

How do we know we sinned unless we have the law? We don;t

What is the standard God gave us, how do we know we have fallen short of that standard. The word sin in the greek, means to miss the mark. What is that mark set up by God and how do we know we missed it? Did Not paul tell us what it was in Gal 3?

why are we justified> Because we have faith (grace) grace through faith) or because we cleaned up our life and do not sin anymore?

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

this is what Paul spoke of in Romans 7, the eternal stuggle we all suffer (if we are honest with ourselves) as children of God.

Paul was showing the enmity between the mind of the flesh and the mind of the Spirit. When you are born again of the Holy Spirit that enmity that is opposed to the law of God will be put to death, and you will no longer be in the flesh and will no longer be carnally minded.
Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

the law can nto touch us, we have overcome.

When we are born again of the Spirit the wicked one cannot touch us, neither shall sin and death reign over us.

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

What is the standard God gave us, how do we know we have fallen short of that standard. The word sin in the greek, means to miss the mark. What is that mark set up by God and how do we know we missed it?

There are 2 marks mentioned in scripture, you either have one or the other.

God’s mark or seal is the Holy Spirit, which the seal of Righteousness having Christ’s righteousness imputed in us, so that we may also DO righteous works.

The other mark is the mark of the man/beast which is sin. Sin is missing the mark of God’s Righteousness, as all unrighteousness is sin.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Paul was showing the enmity between the mind of the flesh and the mind of the Spirit. When you are born again of the Holy Spirit that enmity that is opposed to the law of God will be put to death, and you will no longer be in the flesh and will no longer be carnally minded.
Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

One issue with this thinking

Paul spoke of himself in present tense.

Paul had this struggle not only as a child of God. But as an apostle of God.

If paul struggles with this, who are we to say we will nto struggle with it?

When we are born again of the Spirit the wicked one cannot touch us, neither shall sin and death reign over us.

Your right, it can not touch us, Unless we allow it to. Thats the point paul was making

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Ok, so I am going to take it you think you have no sin is this correct?

Because John also spoke in present tense and included himself in this saying, if we (yes, including me) say we have no sin, we are decieved and the truth is not in us.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There are 2 marks mentioned in scripture, you either have one or the other.

God’s mark or seal is the Holy Spirit, which the seal of Righteousness having Christ’s righteousness imputed in us, so that we may also DO righteous works.

The other mark is the mark of the man/beast which is sin. Sin is missing the mark of God’s Righteousness, as all unrighteousness is sin.

WHAT IS ThE MARK

You can nt say you have sinned and fall short if you do not know the mark.

in other words. How good is good enough. What sins or how many sins do you have to commit before you fall below that mark. And how do you knw what that mark is?

Hpw can I come to God and repent, if I do not know what the mark is?

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Paul spoke of himself in present tense.

Paul had this struggle not only as a child of God. But as an apostle of God.

If paul struggles with this, who are we to say we will nto struggle with it?

Paul told them why he was speaking to them this way in
Romans 6:19
I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Ok, so I am going to take it you think you have no sin is this correct?

What I am, and what you are does not change the Truth shown in that verse.

Because John also spoke in present tense and included himself in this saying, if we (yes, including me) say we have no sin, we are decieved and the truth is not in us.

John is not contradicting himself. John is saying the same thing as Paul “for all have sinned”.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

WHAT IS ThE MARK

God’s mark is Righteousness. The mark of the man/beast is sin.

You can nt say you have sinned and fall short if you do not know the mark.

Sin is missing God’s mark of Righteousness.

in other words. How good is good enough.

Your own righteousness is not good enough. That is why we need the Righteousness of Christ imputed in us.

What sins or how many sins do you have to commit before you fall below that mark.

How many times does a virgin have to commit fornication before she is no longer a virgin?

And how do you knw what that mark is?

It was revealed to me by Jesus Christ.

Hpw can I come to God and repent, if I do not know what the mark is?

The mark of the man/beast is sin. So repent of your sins and seek the Lord and His Righteousness.

Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and hisrighteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Isaiah 54:17
No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.

Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine ownrighteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Paul told them why he was speaking to them this way in
Romans 6:19
I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

What I am, and what you are does not change the Truth shown in that verse.

John is not contradicting himself. John is saying the same thing as Paul “for all have sinned”.

But paul spoke present tense.

He said he at the moment of writing struggled between the flesh and spirit

John did the same thing, If we say if we say we (right here and right now) have no sin, we are decieved

Are you decieved?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God’s mark is Righteousness.

Ok. What do you consider righteousness to be? What is that mark. How good is good enough. Why will you not answer?

The mark of the man/beast is sin.

I could care less about that. I did not ask about this. I asked about the mark of God which states we all have sinned. What is that mark?

Sin is missing God’s mark of Righteousness.

Which is what?

can you say it. And how does a person know what this is?

Your own righteousness is not good enough. That is why we need the Righteousness of Christ imputed in us.

There is a reason for this, why is my righteousness not good enough? Why has my righteousness fallen short.

I agree. We must have Gods righteousness imputed. But why?

How many times does a virgin have to commit fornication before she is no longer a virgin?

1. So one sin would make us unrighteous correct?

It was revealed to me by Jesus Christ.

The mark of the man/beast is sin. So repent of your sins and seek the Lord and His Righteousness.

Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and hisrighteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Isaiah 54:17
No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.

Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine ownrighteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

So where does the cross come in?

And you just proved my point

My righteousness does not come from the law. It comes by faith.

what about God do I need to trust? And why can I not be righteous according to the law?

Why did paul say the law was a schoolmaster to lead us to christ? But after that we are no longer in need of a schoolmaster?

the context of this law is mosaic law. In galations 3.. it even quotes deuteronomy, cursed is the one who does not obey every word..

 

[ScottA]

Several years ago I was in another Christian forum and I ran into a cult type following of believers who held to a strange doctrine.

They called the doctrine “hyper grace”. As I debated their beliefs I found that basically what they believed in was a sin all you want and still be saved type doctrine.

Basically they believed the grace of God was like a license to sin. But I also noticed how many of them tried to justify an ongoing sinful lifestyle.

Here is how many of them described it. They believed that when they sinned it was only their body that was sinning, but not their spirit. So in their minds they believed no matter how much they sinned in the body, their spirit remained squeaky clean.

So I gave this doctrine a name. I called it a doctrine of a disassociated identity. Because they do not identify with the sins they commit in the body.

And as I thought about this, I thought, this is kind of like a transgenderism of Christianity. They “identify” as Christians, but in reality they are truly of the Devil.

This is the same type of mentality that is in the transgender movement. They “identify” as something they are not.

This is a strong delusion that has even infiltrated Christianity.

Let me first make it perfectly clear, that I am not advocating for the group you engaged with or for a life of sin. But your line of reasoning or logic is completely backwards, and wrong.

Actually, biblically, the body is indeed of the devil (born of sin and the father of sin), and the spirit is of God. But don't misunderstand-- No believer of God and Christ believes in "a license to sin." Not one. And that is the misunderstanding.

To the contrary, Paul spoke of the ongoing sin problem and his own personal struggles, and even Jesus carried the marks of sin in His flesh body forty days after being raised from the dead, until his ascension. It is His forty day walk between being crucified and ascending that was to clarify this issue...although many have not understood.

"Forty days" in the scriptures is a pattern or theme that shows a spiritual meaning that most have not fully considered. It is a huge study if one wants to get into it, but the end result is a spiritual meaning of forty years being equal to a lifetime. For example, this was the time of Israel in the desert before entering into the promised land, literally after the death of all of Israel except two. Which is a parable and foreshadowing of all who are born of the flesh walking through this world for a lifetime, then ascending or crossing over to the heavenly promise.

All of which, yes, means everyone remaining in the flesh continues to walk according to the curse that only ends in the death of the flesh. Anyone who says they do not sin even after coming into Christ and being filled with the Holy Spirit, is thus, either a liar, or is specifically referring to their spirit body born of God who does not sin.