The time, times, and a half does not include the season and time, which is the thousand years.

[tailgator]

No, the 1/3 who repent (The Woman in Rev. 12) flee to the Petra/Bozrah area where God will protect them Himself (Eagles wings...Eagle represents God the Father).


You are talkin about 175ish BC here, this is about Antiochus and the Maccabean Revolt Saints. I have done an Exegesis on Dan. 11 & 12 that explains every verse and every player. You are conflating two different timelines, Dan. 21-34-35 is about Antiochus (I say 34-35 because actually 35 spans the 2000 year Church Age who turns WHITE until the very end). Dan. 11:36-45 is about the Anti-Christ/Little Horn/Beast.

The Saints are Jews, that's why John via God who wrote the book of Revelation signifies that the Saints are DIFFERENT from the Martyrs of Jesus.

False interpretation.

You believe the false interpretation of Jason of Cyrene.The Hellenistic Jew who made that interpretation.He taught the time of the end was in 164 BC.
Daniel 11:33-35 are the saints who testify of Christ and who do not worship the beast or it's image nor receive it's mark.


Daniel wrote this persecution lasts until the time of the end. The time of the end was not in 164 bc.The resurection at the time of the end in Daniel 12:2 was not in 164 BC.



"the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come."


Daniel 11:32-35
He will flatter and win over those who have violated the covenant. But the people who know their God will be strong and will resist him.
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.
And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.



"the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come."



How many years have you preached the time of the end was in 164 BC till someone showed you what is written in this verse?

 

[tailgator]

The Saints are Jews, that's why John via God who wrote the book of Revelation signifies that the Saints are DIFFERENT from the Martyrs of Jesus.

This is also false.
The apostles were Jews and were martyrs of Christ.Just because someone is a Jew does not mean they can not be killed for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God .


The fact that you say saint Peter and saint Paul are not martyrs shows you have no idea what your talking about.
And to the list let's also add Stephan to that list of Jews who are martyrs.

Acts 22:20
And when the blood of your martyr Stephen was shed, I stood there giving my approval and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him.’

 

[IndianaRob]

Does that Psalms also explain the ones meant in Daniel 12:2 that awake to shame and everlasting contempt? When are you going to produce the Scripture that proves that, that after Christ rose, many also rose from the dead unto shame and everlasting contempt? I won't hold my breath awaiting such Scripture though, since there is no such Scripture, not even in Psalms somewhere.

David Daniel 12:2 is the proof but for some reason you’re not understanding that.

 

[IndianaRob]

This is how I interpret these verses in Daniel...... for what it is worth.

Daniel 7:4-8;

4The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings. I watched till its wings were plucked off; and it was lifted up from the earth and made to stand on two feet like a man, and a man’s heart was given to it. (Babylon)

5“And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear. It was raised up on one side, and had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. And they said thus to it: ‘Arise, devour much flesh!’ (Medes-Persia)

6“After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird. The beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it. (Greece)

7“After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, (pagan Rome) and it had ten horns. (???????) 8I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, (papacy / pope) coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns (?????) were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking [c]pompous words (papacy / pope).

Daniel 7:11-12;

11“I watched then because of the sound of the [f]pompous words which the horn was speaking; (little horn or papacy) I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame (pagan Rome). 12As for the rest of the beasts, (Babylon, Medes- Persia and Greece) they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

I have a theory on this which I won’t mention now because I’m sure it would derail the very thing I’m trying to understand.

I know you’ve done a lot of study in this area and I would like to pick your brain. I can’t remember where you stand on the verse below, but do you believe this the cross or the futurists 2nd coming?

Dan 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

 

[CTK]

I have a theory on this which I won’t mention now because I’m sure it would derail the very thing I’m trying to understand.

I know you’ve done a lot of study in this area and I would like to pick your brain. I can’t remember where you stand on the verse below, but do you believe this the cross or the futurists 2nd coming?

Dan 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

Thank you. I am sure you are aware that everyone believes that 2:34 and 2:35 represent the Messiah striking the image and destroying it completely at the end times.

But it is my belief that 2:34 represents the Messiah’s first coming where He strikes the feet and breaks apart the IRON AND THE CLAY WITHIN THE FEET ONLY. He did not come to destroy but to divide. This will symbolically separate the “pottery clay” from both the iron and the “ceramic” clay WITHIN the feet.

The Stone (Messiah) is also the “Potter” (Jeremiah) who selects the clay pieces that He determines as “pottery” clay (Jews who will accept Him as their Messiah after the cross and preach the Good News to the world), from the “ceramic” clay (those Jews who would continue to reject Him because of their hardened hearts) from the “iron” (pagan Rome) where they were held captive and encased (symbolically).

But 2:35 represents the second coming of the Messiah when He will destroy everything. So, there is a 2000 year separation between 2:34 and 2:35. This is also why there is the “threshing floor” scene in 2:35, not 2:34. This represents the end time harvest.

Verse 2:34 is the cross or the only event in Chapter 2. This event or action is the symbolic event that also causes the very different set of symbols between Chapters 2 and 7. The Stone (cross) breaks apart the clay from the iron and those Jews (pottery clay) go out and preach the Good News). This will start His church within the pagan Roman Empire. This action revealed in Chapter 2, will also cause the 10 toes to now be identified as 10 horns (powers) in Chapter 7 as well as the little horn come out of pagan Rome.

This is one of the most grossly misunderstood and misinterpreted verses in Daniel and MUST be interpreted this way for the prophetic verses in Chapters 7, 8, 9, and 11 to all reveal their true messianic prophecies that are within His plan of salvation.

Verses 2:41 - 43, reveal the results of His first coming (cross). It separates those Jews (pottery v ceramic clay), it establishes His earthly church, it reveals the “divided” kingdom (pagan v papal Rome), it provides a series of comparisons between the two 4th beast kingdoms, etc. Chapter 7 then expands greatly on the 4th beast kingdoms when pagan Rome is slain (7:11), and papal Rome headed by the little horn (papacy) rises to power and sits atop the 4th beast kingdom which will become known as papal Rome around the year 530 AD.

 

[Davidpt]

Thank you. I am sure you are aware that everyone believes that 2:34 and 2:35 represent the Messiah striking the image and destroying it completely at the end times.

But it is my belief that 2:34 represents the Messiah’s first coming where He strikes the feet and breaks apart the IRON AND THE CLAY WITHIN THE FEET ONLY. He did not come to destroy but to divide. This will symbolically separate the “pottery clay” from both the iron and the “ceramic” clay WITHIN the feet.

I don't see the text agreeing with that. This 2000 year separation you mentioned would already be in verse 34. It would be between this---(A)Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands---and this---(B)which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

Because once (B) happens, it results in this at that time---Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them

Which then then leads to this at that time---and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth


Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands(initially this stone was cut without hands 2000 years earlier)

(then 2000 years later the following happens)which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them

(And after that happens it leads to this)and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. Look what the text says in verse 35--- the stone that smote the image(verse 35). That's the same thing it says in verse 34---which smote the image(verse 34). Therefore, no way can there be a 2000 year separation between verse 34 and verse 35.

Your interpretation of verse 34 ignores the 'Then' that verse 35 begins with. Something has to explain that 'Then'. This explains that 'Then'---which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them

How does it make sense that verse 35 can even get fulfilled the way you are interpreting this? Where do you see anyone smiting anyone in verse 35, assuming you are correct that verse 35 is meaning 2000 years after this part---which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces?

Per your interpretation, how does the image tumble entirely when there is not even anyone in that verse smiting it? It just falls? No one causes it to fall?


I know the way some interpreters reason things, which may or may not include you in this case. They reason things in this manner. I have studied this subject for years, for decades even. Therefore, that basically means I'm a Pro, no way can I be wrong about anything then. Anyone that has invested as much time as I have studying these things couldn't possibly be wrong about any of these things.

Then comes along another interpreter that has invested just as much time as this previous interpreter except he or she is coming to different conclusions altogether pertaining to the same texts. And that he or she too is insisting, how could I be wrong about anything? I have invested years, decades even, studying this subject. Therefore, that makes me a Pro.

 

[IndianaRob]

Thank you. I am sure you are aware that everyone believes that 2:34 and 2:35 represent the Messiah striking the image and destroying it completely at the end times.

But it is my belief that 2:34 represents the Messiah’s first coming where He strikes the feet and breaks apart the IRON AND THE CLAY WITHIN THE FEET ONLY. He did not come to destroy but to divide. This will symbolically separate the “pottery clay” from both the iron and the “ceramic” clay WITHIN the feet.

I do believe it was Christ at his first coming.

The Stone (Messiah) is also the “Potter” (Jeremiah) who selects the clay pieces that He determines as “pottery” clay (Jews who will accept Him as their Messiah after the cross and preach the Good News to the world), from the “ceramic” clay (those Jews who would continue to reject Him because of their hardened hearts) from the “iron” (pagan Rome) where they were held captive and encased (symbolically).

I’ve not considered that view but I will look into it.

But 2:35 represents the second coming of the Messiah when He will destroy everything. So, there is a 2000 year separation between 2:34 and 2:35. This is also why there is the “threshing floor” scene in 2:35, not 2:34. This represents the end time harvest.

I don’t agree with this, I believe the second coming was the resurrection of Jesus and Jesus has conquered all.

Verse 2:34 is the cross or the only event in Chapter 2. This event or action is the symbolic event that also causes the very different set of symbols between Chapters 2 and 7. The Stone (cross) breaks apart the clay from the iron and those Jews (pottery clay) go out and preach the Good News). This will start His church within the pagan Roman Empire. This action revealed in Chapter 2, will also cause the 10 toes to now be identified as 10 horns (powers) in Chapter 7 as well as the little horn come out of pagan Rome.

This is one of the most grossly misunderstood and misinterpreted verses in Daniel and MUST be interpreted this way for the prophetic verses in Chapters 7, 8, 9, and 11 to all reveal their true messianic prophecies that are within His plan of salvation.

Verses 2:41 - 43, reveal the results of His first coming (cross). It separates those Jews (pottery v ceramic clay), it establishes His earthly church, it reveals the “divided” kingdom (pagan v papal Rome), it provides a series of comparisons between the two 4th beast kingdoms, etc. Chapter 7 then expands greatly on the 4th beast kingdoms when pagan Rome is slain (7:11), and papal Rome headed by the little horn (papacy) rises to power and sits atop the 4th beast kingdom which will become known as papal Rome around the year 530 AD.

I don’t agree with that part but I would like to get your thoughts on what mingling themselves with he seed of men means.

Dan 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Ronald, if you do not mind, would you be willing to present your interpretations for verses 11:5 - 7? Thanks. Chapter 11 is / was the most difficult chapter by far to interepret.

No problem my friend.

From my Substack Blog where I do every verse in Dan. 11 & 12

Dan. 11:5 And the king of the south shall be strong, and one of his princes; and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion; his dominion shall be a great dominion.

The King of the south as mentioned here is of course Ptolemy I (First) this is still speaking about the Greek Empire. The southern most kingdom became very strong and powerful as did the northern kingdom. Basically these two were the "super powers" of the region, while the other two diminished in power. This is the era of the First Syrian War being described.



6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.

We have moved ahead here to the last part of the Second Syrian War. Ptolemy II, the king of the south, sent his daughter Berenice unto Antiochus II, the king of the north hoping their marriage would bring peace. It however did not work as planned, Antiochus II, Berenice and their son were all murdered by Antiochus II's ex-wife.

7 But out of a branch of her roots (Berenice's brother) shall one stand up in his estate, which shall come with an army, and shall enter into the fortress of the king of the north, and shall deal against them, and shall prevail: 8 And shall also carry captives into Egypt their gods, with their princes, and with their precious vessels of silver and of gold; and he shall continue more years than the king of the north. 9 So the king of the south shall come into his kingdom, and shall return into his own land.

The above describes the Third Syrian War. Ptolemy III, the brother of Berenice invaded the north victoriously. He recovered a number of statues and many valuables and returned them to Egypt. He of course outlived the king of the north by a few years, hence the prophetic uttering in verse 8 comes to pass.

 

[IndianaRob]

I don't see the text agreeing with that. This 2000 year separation you mentioned would already be in verse 34. It would be between this---(A)Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands---and this---(B)which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

Because once (B) happens, it results in this at that time---Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them

Which then then leads to this at that time---and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth


Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands(initially this stone was cut without hands 2000 years earlier)

(then 2000 years later the following happens)which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them

(And after that happens it leads to this)and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. Look what the text says in verse 35--- the stone that smote the image(verse 35). That's the same thing it says in verse 34---which smote the image(verse 34). Therefore, no way can there be a 2000 year separation between verse 34 and verse 35.

Your interpretation of verse 34 ignores the 'Then' that verse 35 begins with. Something has to explain that 'Then'. This explains that 'Then'---which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them

How does it make sense that verse 35 can even get fulfilled the way you are interpreting this? Where do you see anyone smiting anyone in verse 35, assuming you are correct that verse 35 is meaning 2000 years after this part---which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces?

Per your interpretation, how does the image tumble entirely when there is not even anyone in that verse smiting it? It just falls? No one causes it to fall?


I know the way some interpreters reason things, which may or may not include you in this case. They reason things in this manner. I have studied this subject for years, for decades even. Therefore, that basically means I'm a Pro, no way can I be wrong about anything then. Anyone that has invested as much time as I have studying these things couldn't possibly be wrong about any of these things.

Then comes along another interpreter that has invested just as much time as this previous interpreter except he or she is coming to different conclusions altogether pertaining to the same texts. And that he or she too is insisting, how could I be wrong about anything? I have invested years, decades even, studying this subject. Therefore, that makes me a Pro.

We thing we know for sure is the kingdom of God was established in the days of the fourth kingdom.

So interpretation is very simple, when was the kingdom of heaven set up in this world.

Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

False interpretation.

You believe the false interpretation of Jason of Cyrene.The Hellenistic Jew who made that interpretation.He taught the time of the end was in 164 BC.
Daniel 11:33-35 are the saints who testify of Christ and who do not worship the beast or it's image nor receive it's mark.

You are really confused, I KNOW Dan . 11:21-34 was about Antiochus, and that vs. 35 is a "Bridge Verse" about the over 2000 years leading to THE END which is seen in verses 36-45 ONLY.

Jesus was not even born yet in verses 33-34. From my Exegesis I explain in detail below:

Dan. 11:29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. 30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Antiochus Epiphanes soon returned to Egypt with the intention of conquering Alexandria. The Egyptians however sent a message to Rome asking for help. Three Roman senators were sent by ship to inform Antiochus Epiphanes that he was not to invade Egypt and to demand that he retreat immediately. This of course made him angry and Antiochus seems to have taken it out on the Jewish believers. He killed many of them but allowed the Hellenistic Jews to live as long as they forsook the Holy Covenant !! He was indeed a vile man, seemingly a forerunner to the coming Anti-Christ/Beast in many of his mannerisms. Jason also seems to be a forerunner of the False Prophet.

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. 32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

Antiochus Epiphanes defiled the temple of God, stopped the daily sacrifices and even built a pagan alter unto Zeus and sacrificed pigs on it. This was an Abomination unto God, but its not the Abomination that Jesus and Daniel is speaking about of course. This desecrated the temple while it was there, but as we can see, Antiochus Epiphanes served Zeus, thus he can not be the Willful King of verse 36 as many think, because he served no gods. This of course created a schism so to speak amongst the Jewish peoples, which is what Antiochus was good at, divide and conquer tactics. In the end many Jews forsook their God and many refused to do so, but alas, they paid the price with their lives. This of course is a likeness unto the coming end time events in many ways.

33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. 34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

TRANSITION PERIOD

I think this three verse passage covers a 2000 some odd year stretch of time. It reaches from the Maccabean Revolt all the way unto the end times via verse 35 where it states even to the time of the end, which is a yet to be appointed time !! We see in verse 33 that many will understand but fall by the sword, flame, captivity, many days, this sounds like the early church Saints also, they understood, and thus Rome killed them in many violent ways, and when they fall they will be helped with a little help (Holy Spirit), but many will believe Satan's lies (flatteries). Verse 35 keeps up the 2000 year journey unto the end times, many will fall, be purged, made white (Jesus' blood) EVEN TO THE END TIMES !! Which is yet for a future time to be APPOINTED !! Then we see the Anti-Christ starting in verse 36. I think verse 33 is the Maccabean Revolt, and maybe the early Christian Church, then verses 34 and 35 transition via the whole 2000 year Church Age unto the end time !! The transition is a little convoluting and confuses many, some think Antiochus Epiphanes is the character that runs from Daniel 11:21 all the way to verse 45, some think its the Anti-Christ character that runs from verse 21 all the way to verse 45. Both sides seemingly can't see the transition that I see in verses 33-35, but most do see it. Its there, we just have to look a little deeper, it thus is the transition period between the two characters.

 

[tailgator]

You are really confused, I KNOW Dan . 11:21-34 was about Antiochus, and that vs. 35 is a "Bridge Verse" about the over 2000 years leading to THE END which is seen in verses 36-45 ONLY.

Jesus was not even born yet in verses 33-34. From my Exegesis I explain in detail below:

Dan. 11:29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. 30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Antiochus Epiphanes soon returned to Egypt with the intention of conquering Alexandria. The Egyptians however sent a message to Rome asking for help. Three Roman senators were sent by ship to inform Antiochus Epiphanes that he was not to invade Egypt and to demand that he retreat immediately. This of course made him angry and Antiochus seems to have taken it out on the Jewish believers. He killed many of them but allowed the Hellenistic Jews to live as long as they forsook the Holy Covenant !! He was indeed a vile man, seemingly a forerunner to the coming Anti-Christ/Beast in many of his mannerisms. Jason also seems to be a forerunner of the False Prophet.

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. 32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

Antiochus Epiphanes defiled the temple of God, stopped the daily sacrifices and even built a pagan alter unto Zeus and sacrificed pigs on it. This was an Abomination unto God, but its not the Abomination that Jesus and Daniel is speaking about of course. This desecrated the temple while it was there, but as we can see, Antiochus Epiphanes served Zeus, thus he can not be the Willful King of verse 36 as many think, because he served no gods. This of course created a schism so to speak amongst the Jewish peoples, which is what Antiochus was good at, divide and conquer tactics. In the end many Jews forsook their God and many refused to do so, but alas, they paid the price with their lives. This of course is a likeness unto the coming end time events in many ways.

33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. 34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

TRANSITION PERIOD

I think this three verse passage covers a 2000 some odd year stretch of time. It reaches from the Maccabean Revolt all the way unto the end times via verse 35 where it states even to the time of the end, which is a yet to be appointed time !! We see in verse 33 that many will understand but fall by the sword, flame, captivity, many days, this sounds like the early church Saints also, they understood, and thus Rome killed them in many violent ways, and when they fall they will be helped with a little help (Holy Spirit), but many will believe Satan's lies (flatteries). Verse 35 keeps up the 2000 year journey unto the end times, many will fall, be purged, made white (Jesus' blood) EVEN TO THE END TIMES !! Which is yet for a future time to be APPOINTED !! Then we see the Anti-Christ starting in verse 36. I think verse 33 is the Maccabean Revolt, and maybe the early Christian Church, then verses 34 and 35 transition via the whole 2000 year Church Age unto the end time !! The transition is a little convoluting and confuses many, some think Antiochus Epiphanes is the character that runs from Daniel 11:21 all the way to verse 45, some think its the Anti-Christ character that runs from verse 21 all the way to verse 45. Both sides seemingly can't see the transition that I see in verses 33-35, but most do see it. Its there, we just have to look a little deeper, it thus is the transition period between the two characters.

You have been misled by a blind guide.
You don't even know who gave you the interpretation which you believe.

So who is the false prophet that told you antiochus is mentioned in Daniel 11?
Do you even know the false prophets name?

 

[Ronald D Milam]

How many years have you preached the time of the end was in 164 BC till someone showed you what is written in this verse?

You really just do not get it do you? The above proves you ASSUMPTIONS INVALID.

This is also false.
The apostles were Jews and were martyrs of Christ.Just because someone is a Jew does not mean they can not be killed for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God .


The fact that you say saint Peter and saint Paul are not martyrs shows you have no idea what your talking about.
And to the list let's also add Stephan to that list of Jews who are martyrs.

Acts 22:20
And when the blood of your martyr Stephen was shed, I stood there giving my approval and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him.’

Rev. 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

The Rapture is Pre 70th week/Pre Trib. The Church is not on earth, the Saints who are targeted are the 1/3 who repented and fled into the Petra/Bozrah area and the 2/3 who do not have the Testimony of Jesus or refused to repent. The Remnant in Rev. 12:17 CAN NOT be Jewish, it is the Remnant Church (meaning the main body of the Church is in heaven). The 1/3 can not be gotten at, so the Dragon turns from going after her and goes after the Remnant (small part left) of he SEED (Jesus is that ONE SEED, see Gal. 3:16) of the Woman (Israel). And we know the 2/3 do not have the "Testimony of Jesus" so this Remnant Satan goes after via the Anti-Christs Army can not be the 1/3 or the 2/3 so it can not be a Jewish Remnant, but only a Gentile Remnant, those Gentiles who accept Christ Jesus after the Pre 70th week rapture.

Just another reason why the Pre Trib. rapture is not a doubt, and you guys who can not grasp this, always get off tracked elsewhere by being in error on that simple truth.

 

[tailgator]

You are really confused, I KNOW Dan . 11:21-34 was about Antiochus, and that vs. 35 is a "Bridge Verse" about the over 2000 years leading to THE END which is seen in verses 36-45 ONLY.

Jesus was not even born yet in verses 33-34. From my Exegesis I explain in detail below:

Dan. 11:29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. 30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Antiochus Epiphanes soon returned to Egypt with the intention of conquering Alexandria. The Egyptians however sent a message to Rome asking for help. Three Roman senators were sent by ship to inform Antiochus Epiphanes that he was not to invade Egypt and to demand that he retreat immediately. This of course made him angry and Antiochus seems to have taken it out on the Jewish believers. He killed many of them but allowed the Hellenistic Jews to live as long as they forsook the Holy Covenant !! He was indeed a vile man, seemingly a forerunner to the coming Anti-Christ/Beast in many of his mannerisms. Jason also seems to be a forerunner of the False Prophet.

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. 32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

Antiochus Epiphanes defiled the temple of God, stopped the daily sacrifices and even built a pagan alter unto Zeus and sacrificed pigs on it. This was an Abomination unto God, but its not the Abomination that Jesus and Daniel is speaking about of course. This desecrated the temple while it was there, but as we can see, Antiochus Epiphanes served Zeus, thus he can not be the Willful King of verse 36 as many think, because he served no gods. This of course created a schism so to speak amongst the Jewish peoples, which is what Antiochus was good at, divide and conquer tactics. In the end many Jews forsook their God and many refused to do so, but alas, they paid the price with their lives. This of course is a likeness unto the coming end time events in many ways.

33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. 34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

TRANSITION PERIOD

I think this three verse passage covers a 2000 some odd year stretch of time. It reaches from the Maccabean Revolt all the way unto the end times via verse 35 where it states even to the time of the end, which is a yet to be appointed time !! We see in verse 33 that many will understand but fall by the sword, flame, captivity, many days, this sounds like the early church Saints also, they understood, and thus Rome killed them in many violent ways, and when they fall they will be helped with a little help (Holy Spirit), but many will believe Satan's lies (flatteries). Verse 35 keeps up the 2000 year journey unto the end times, many will fall, be purged, made white (Jesus' blood) EVEN TO THE END TIMES !! Which is yet for a future time to be APPOINTED !! Then we see the Anti-Christ starting in verse 36. I think verse 33 is the Maccabean Revolt, and maybe the early Christian Church, then verses 34 and 35 transition via the whole 2000 year Church Age unto the end time !! The transition is a little convoluting and confuses many, some think Antiochus Epiphanes is the character that runs from Daniel 11:21 all the way to verse 45, some think its the Anti-Christ character that runs from verse 21 all the way to verse 45. Both sides seemingly can't see the transition that I see in verses 33-35, but most do see it. Its there, we just have to look a little deeper, it thus is the transition period between the two characters.

And just so you know.
The interpretation which Jesus enemies believe is the same interpretation you believe.
That's right.You believe the same interpretation the Pharisees believe .

Daniel 12
Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

You have been misled by a blind guide.
You don't even know who gave you the interpretation which you believe.

So who is the false prophet that told you antiochus is mentioned in Daniel 11?
Do you even know the false prophets name?

I have been a preacher called to prophesy 40 years son, and you are a message board warrior. I spent more time on Dan. 11 & 12 Exegesis then you have ever spent on a study in your life.

Give it a rest, everyone here knows you are not in the know on anything to do with prophesy.

 

[tailgator]

You really just do not get it do you? The above proves you ASSUMPTIONS INVALID.



Rev. 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

The Rapture is Pre 70th week/Pre Trib. The Church is not on earth, the Saints who are targeted are the 1/3 who repented and fled into the Petra/Bozrah area and the 2/3 who do not have the Testimony of Jesus or refused to repent. The Remnant in Rev. 12:17 CAN NOT be Jewish, it is the Remnant Church (meaning the main body of the Church is in heaven). The 1/3 can not be gotten at, so the Dragon turns from going after her and goes after the Remnant (small part left) of he SEED (Jesus is that ONE SEED, see Gal. 3:16) of the Woman (Israel). And we know the 2/3 do not have the "Testimony of Jesus" so this Remnant Satan goes after via the Anti-Christs Army can not be the 1/3 or the 2/3 so it can not be a Jewish Remnant, but only a Gentile Remnant, those Gentiles who accept Christ Jesus after the Pre 70th week rapture.

Just another reason why the Pre Trib. rapture is not a doubt, and you guys who can not grasp this, always get off tracked elsewhere by being in error on that simple truth.

So you say Jesus lied?
You believe no followers of Jesus will never have tribulation?
None of Jesus followers will be persecuted or hated?No Christian will ever be killed?

You really should try to listen to what Jesus tells his followers.

Mathew 10
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.




You still insist none of Jesus followers will be persecuted before he comes?

 

[tailgator]

I have been a preacher called to prophesy 40 years son, and you are a message board warrior. I spent more time on Dan. 11 & 12 Exegesis then you have ever spent on a study in your life.

Give it a rest, everyone here knows you are not in the know on anything to do with prophesy.

Your a followers of Pharisees
You teach the same oh lies as the Pharisees.


You push the exact same interpretation of Daniels prophecy as the Pharisees.

Daniel 12;10
Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

 

[CTK]

I don't see the text agreeing with that. This 2000 year separation you mentioned would already be in verse 34. It would be between this---(A)Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands---and this---(B)which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

Part 1.


Thanks for your comments!! As I mentioned, ALL interpreters contend these two verses happen at the same time - at the end of time. It took me quite a bit of time for me to discover these are the two separate comings of the Lord. That was because the interpretations within the later chapters of Daniel - 7 and 8 would not make any sense - it would require many of the most important verses in Daniel to be thrown out far into the future where they do not belong.

But I certainly understand your skepticism.... Chapter 2 is quite difficult to interpret despite most finding it relatively easy to understand. But that is due to their approach. That is, they focus on the 4 kingdoms that are easily matched to our history books and do not look for the underlying messianic messages nor look for how these verses reveal very important prophecies about God's plan of salvation that is placed WITHIN these four kingdoms. The kingdoms are not the story... they just house the story.

First, let me assure you that I will not be able to address all your concerns properly. That is because they are just too complicated and demand a lot of "ink" that breaks down these verses. Secondly, once those initial verses are responded to, you will have many, many more addtional questions arising from those responses... it will go on for quite some time.... which is why the Chapter 2 commentary is one of the longest discussions of the 12 chapters. And it one gets Chapter 2 wrong, then the remaining chapters will easily and quickly go left into the future and never return. Chapter 2 is God's blueprint for the rest of the chapters.... that is no small statement but it is true. This is one of the most important verses to interpret in Chapter 2 and without recognizing this new interpretation, the "interpretation sequence" verses found in verses 41 -43 cannot be unpacked (ignoring for now the effect on the later chapters).

Please note once again, it is impossible to address and explain all the reasons / support / tie in's, etc., in my responses here.. But I will try and stay at the top level.

Here are verses 31-35 in Chapter 2. Before I comment on these and others, it is necessary to inform you that I have found Chapter 2 (and as a result of this, many other chapters in Daniel) to be constructed in a certain way. It is more noticeable in this chapter but it will be found in the latter chapters as well as though God wanted to "set" His way of presenting these chapters in a consistent manner. There are two major sections: there is a "dream sequence" section of verses that is given to us that is of a "summary level" or the overall big picture of the events that will be discussed. In Chapter 2, these verses represent that "summary" or "dream sequence" set of verses. They do not offer much details but are being presented so the upcoming "interpretation sequence" verses (detailed verses), will be placed WITHIN THEM. Consequently, Daniel is not written in a chronological manner in so many ways. And this has causes so many misinterpretations.


31“You, O king, were watching; and behold, a great image! This great image, whose splendor was excellent, stood before you; and its form was awesome. 32This image’s head was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and [k]thighs of bronze, 33its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of [l]clay. 34You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. 35Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found. And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

Therefore the "dream sequence" is revealing the following:
1) the four and only four kingdoms that God will bring out of the earth and the sea will be identified here. The only one He identifies is the first because it represents Babylon.
2) the 2nd, 3rd and 4th kingdoms are not identified by name or king - just their order and metal types / parts of a man.
3) This relatively brief "summary" level of verses is what God uses to establish the 4 kingdoms, their borders and boundaries, that they are consecutive, they are separate and distinct from one another, etc.
4) There are no moving parts at this time... the first two verses are to identify the "structure" where the rest of the verses in Daniel will or must be placed. We can not go outside the lines of these 4 kingdoms or bring in any new kingdoms.
5) Verse 34 provides the one of two "action" verses in Chapter 2's dream sequence.

a) Verse 34 represents the "Stone," the Messiah, who arrives at His first coming. He is "cut without hands," meaning Jesus will arrive as a man on earth but is one and the same as the Father - the "mountain." (symbolically of course). Only the Messiah at His first coming is identified as the "Stone," not at the end of time.

b) Verse 35 represents the time of the end when Jesus will return and destroy everything. This is the harvest time. Jesus did not represent or fulfill the time of the harvest in the 7 feast days. He fulfilled the first 4 of the 7. Upon His return, He will arrive on Trumpets and He will fulfill / complete the remaining 3 fall feast days - hence, the harvest time at the end of time. This is why verse 35 speaks of the time of the harvest analogy.. not verse 34.

Because once (B) happens, it results in this at that time---Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them

Which then then leads to this at that time---and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth


Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands(initially this stone was cut without hands 2000 years earlier)

(then 2000 years later the following happens)which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them

(And after that happens it leads to this)and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. Look what the text says in verse 35--- the stone that smote the image(verse 35). That's the same thing it says in verse 34---which smote the image(verse 34). Therefore, no way can there be a 2000 year separation between verse 34 and verse 35.

Your interpretation of verse 34 ignores the 'Then' that verse 35 begins with. Something has to explain that 'Then'. This explains that 'Then'---which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them

How does it make sense that verse 35 can even get fulfilled the way you are interpreting this? Where do you see anyone smiting anyone in verse 35, assuming you are correct that verse 35 is meaning 2000 years after this part---which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces?

Per your interpretation, how does the image tumble entirely when there is not even anyone in that verse smiting it? It just falls? No one causes it to fall?


I know the way some interpreters reason things, which may or may not include you in this case. They reason things in this manner. I have studied this subject for years, for decades even. Therefore, that basically means I'm a Pro, no way can I be wrong about anything then. Anyone that has invested as much time as I have studying these things couldn't possibly be wrong about any of these things.

Then comes along another interpreter that has invested just as much time as this previous interpreter except he or she is coming to different conclusions altogether pertaining to the same texts. And that he or she too is insisting, how could I be wrong about anything? I have invested years, decades even, studying this subject. Therefore, that makes me a Pro.

 

[CTK]

I don't see the text agreeing with that. This 2000 year separation you mentioned would already be in verse 34. It would be between this---(A)Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands---and this---(B)which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

Because once (B) happens, it results in this at that time---Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them

Part 2:

) The Messiah will strike ONLY the feet of the image and break into pieces the clay and the iron components ONLY. The clay represent His people subjugated by the Roman Empire - symbolically encased in iron and sitting at the end of their feet. Totally at their mercy. The Jews expected their Messiah to arrive at the time He actually did arrive but as a conquering king not a suffering servant. They expected Him to wage literal war against the 4th beast of pagan Rome and crush it out of existence. This of course, would mean that the entire image would be struck down and destroyed and their Messiah would rule with Israel over all the nations. But that is not how God would arrive and free His people from being "encased" within the Gentile nations (pagan Rome). He was interested in freeing them from bondage of sin and death not pagan Rome. He would use this symbolism to reveal His plan of salvation for His people and all of humanity.


Prior to the cross, Jesus had thousands of followers but NOT ONE true believer. Only after the cross and His resurrection would we find those who would come to truly believe He was their Messiah - their God. And this wasn't an automatic thing that would take place. But once the Holy Spirit came upon them. then things would truly change and His believers (pottery clay) versus the "Jewish unbelievers" (ceramic clay) would go out into the world preaching the Good News. The "ceramic clay" (Jews who would continue to reject Jesus) would stay within their pre-cross Jewish faith and would still await their coming Messiah for another 2000 years.

6) So, Jesus did not come to destroy but to "divide" and He would certainly divide the pottery from the ceramic clay. This would establish His church who would go out and preach to the Gentiles. This church would indeed be successful despite the persecution of both the Romans and the Jews who did not accept Him.

7) The church would great throughout the world and after the time of the Gentiles, the Messiah will return to fulfill verse 2:35.

8) Clearly, the image was not destroyed at the time of the Messiah. The "Stone", the Messiah only arrive at His first coming to set up His church and fulfill 9:24.

9) The "mechanism" (bad term but it should work) for all the changes in the 4th kingdom from Chapter 2 to 7 demanded some form of "action" that would require a very different set of symbols and events to take place. The other 3 kingdoms were obviously not affected by the "stone" striking the feet of the image. And beginning with Chapter 7, we find that most of the remaining chapters focus only on the 4th kingdom - be it pagan or papal Rome. The other 3 are briefly mentioned but are also quickly put in the rear view mirror (and this is especially true for Chapter 11 where everyone contends it speaks largely of the post-Alexander powers (4 generals and AE). But that is a great mistake. They are not found in the chapter 2 list of kingdoms or kings and have no place in God's plan of salvation.

10) Without this specific interpretation, Chapter 9 would be misinterpreted (grossly, as it has been), and 2 and 7 and 8 would not tie in perfectly with Chapter 9 or 11.

11) Verse 34 shows the iron and the clay within the feet are struck and broken into pieces.

12) Verse 35 shows and records all 4 of the elements being destroyed. The iron and the clay are no longer together but separated elements. They have been separated by the Stone striking the feet by the Messiah... not by the mountain (God).

13) The term "then" HAS INDEED been interpreted to mean right after or right away - at the same time as when the Stone struck the feet, but that is an incorrect interpretation. It was the Messiah who had to "divide" the iron from the clay at His first coming.

14) Too much to try and present - but once you get to the "interpretation sequence" verses in 2:41-45, you will see further difference that He expands on those events that will take place after 2:34 and before 2:35. If you compare 2:35 to 2:45, they are both describing the same event - the end of times harvest. But you will notice there are now in very different order. The clay in 2:45 now represents only those who have rejected the Messiah and are now found on the "threshing floor" at the end of time where now, the threshing floor is no longer constructed of hardened earth or stone, but God will use the two hardest elements (kingdoms) of iron and bronze to place those "pieces of clay" on to destroy forever.

I have got to stop here because this is already getting too long and drifting past Chapter 2. Will try and address the comments you provided below later on.. Thanks.

Which then then leads to this at that time---and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth


Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands(initially this stone was cut without hands 2000 years earlier)

(then 2000 years later the following happens)which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them

(And after that happens it leads to this)and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. Look what the text says in verse 35--- the stone that smote the image(verse 35). That's the same thing it says in verse 34---which smote the image(verse 34). Therefore, no way can there be a 2000 year separation between verse 34 and verse 35.

Your interpretation of verse 34 ignores the 'Then' that verse 35 begins with. Something has to explain that 'Then'. This explains that 'Then'---which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them

How does it make sense that verse 35 can even get fulfilled the way you are interpreting this? Where do you see anyone smiting anyone in verse 35, assuming you are correct that verse 35 is meaning 2000 years after this part---which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces?

Per your interpretation, how does the image tumble entirely when there is not even anyone in that verse smiting it? It just falls? No one causes it to fall?


I know the way some interpreters reason things, which may or may not include you in this case. They reason things in this manner. I have studied this subject for years, for decades even. Therefore, that basically means I'm a Pro, no way can I be wrong about anything then. Anyone that has invested as much time as I have studying these things couldn't possibly be wrong about any of these things.

Then comes along another interpreter that has invested just as much time as this previous interpreter except he or she is coming to different conclusions altogether pertaining to the same texts. And that he or she too is insisting, how could I be wrong about anything? I have invested years, decades even, studying this subject. Therefore, that makes me a Pro.

 

[CTK]

I do believe it was Christ at his first coming.

I’ve not considered that view but I will look into it.

I don’t agree with this, I believe the second coming was the resurrection of Jesus and Jesus has conquered all.

I don’t agree with that part but I would like to get your thoughts on what mingling themselves with he seed of men means.

Dan 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

Thank you for your comments. I will certainly try and explain my interpretations that you might still consider in error... I just know how much discussion is necessary to support these view and are included in the commentary I recently released on Amazon. If you would like an author's copy - free of charge please provide your mailing information in a private message to me. If you would rather keep that confidential and could not provide a PO Box or your church address or another means of keeping your personal information as confidential as possible, I could also give you the necessary information for you to go directly onto Amazon and purchase it.... thanks.

 

[CTK]

No problem my friend.

From my Substack Blog where I do every verse in Dan. 11 & 12

Dan. 11:5 And the king of the south shall be strong, and one of his princes; and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion; his dominion shall be a great dominion.

The King of the south as mentioned here is of course Ptolemy I (First) this is still speaking about the Greek Empire. The southern most kingdom became very strong and powerful as did the northern kingdom. Basically these two were the "super powers" of the region, while the other two diminished in power. This is the era of the First Syrian War being described.

View attachment 50173

6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.

We have moved ahead here to the last part of the Second Syrian War. Ptolemy II, the king of the south, sent his daughter Berenice unto Antiochus II, the king of the north hoping their marriage would bring peace. It however did not work as planned, Antiochus II, Berenice and their son were all murdered by Antiochus II's ex-wife.

7 But out of a branch of her roots (Berenice's brother) shall one stand up in his estate, which shall come with an army, and shall enter into the fortress of the king of the north, and shall deal against them, and shall prevail: 8 And shall also carry captives into Egypt their gods, with their princes, and with their precious vessels of silver and of gold; and he shall continue more years than the king of the north. 9 So the king of the south shall come into his kingdom, and shall return into his own land.

The above describes the Third Syrian War. Ptolemy III, the brother of Berenice invaded the north victoriously. He recovered a number of statues and many valuables and returned them to Egypt. He of course outlived the king of the north by a few years, hence the prophetic uttering in verse 8 comes to pass.

Thank you very much and I have seen this before. It attempts to interpret Chapter 11 as ALL, or almost ALL interpreters have done. They have continued to apply a "historical" approach to Daniel - especially Chapter 11 and has attempted to identify those verses in Daniel to the events that might seem to fit within our history books around the same time as the events in Daniel take place.

The key to understanding Chapter 11, which literally took me between 7-11 months to discover is how these verses relate to the 70 weeks of years prophecy - not post Alexander events or actors. Once this "key" was discovered, it would then take another 6 months to try and interpret the rest of Chapter 11 - it is absolutely a monster. Only when I was a hairs breath from quiting and I reached out to God declaring I cannot do this anymore - I have nothing left to give to unpack Chapter 11, did He point me to a verse that I have read a million times over and did not see His simple message....