The time, times, and a half does not include the season and time, which is the thousand years.

[Spiritual Israelite]

Do you agree the kingdom of the beast ,under heaven is consumed and then given to the saints as Daniel shows?
Yes or no?

Daniel 7
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Yes, but I'm sure we disagree on what that means. Do you understand that the visions described in Daniel 7:2-14 are explained in verses 17-27? If so, then would you agree that Daniel 7:27 is an explanation of what Daniel 7:13-14 is about? If so, then do you understand that Daniel 7:13-14 refers to the ascension of Jesus Christ?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The land Israel inherits will recover from the war which consumes it long before Gog comes against resurected Israel 1000 years after that war.

Ezekiel 38:8
After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.

You think 1 Thess 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-12 are describing destruction that results from war? Where does it indicate that? I'm certain those are talking about God's wrath, not the result of war.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Daniel 12:2 is about the same resurrection of Israel.
It shows people being resurected to everlasting shame .

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

It's not just a resurrection of Israel, it's a resurrection of all dead people, as Jesus indicated in John 5:28-29. We're so far apart on all this that it's pointless to even continue discussing it.

 

[Marty fox]

You think 1 Thess 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-12 are describing destruction that results from war? Where does it indicate that? I'm certain those are talking about God's wrath, not the result of war.

Yes its God wrath not war

 

[tailgator]

Yes, but I'm sure we disagree on what that means. Do you understand that the visions described in Daniel 7:2-14 are explained in verses 17-27? If so, then would you agree that Daniel 7:27 is an explanation of what Daniel 7:13-14 is about? If so, then do you understand that Daniel 7:13-14 refers to the ascension of Jesus Christ?

Daniel 7:13
“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.i


Coming with the clouds does not describe an ascension or departure.It describes his coming as in Mathew 24


Mathew 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Revelation 1:7
Look, he is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.” So shall it be! Amen.

 

[tailgator]

It's not just a resurrection of Israel, it's a resurrection of all dead people, as Jesus indicated in John 5:28-29. We're so far apart on all this that it's pointless to even continue discussing it.

Not according to Daniel.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes its God wrath not war

That's very obvious to most of us, but I have noticed that obvious things escape his understanding quite often.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Not according to Daniel.

Should we interpret scriptures in isolation or take all of scripture into account? Jesus gave added detail about that event that Daniel did not. You don't want to take that into consideration, but you should. The NT often gives us added detail and clarification of events described in the OT.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Daniel 7:13
“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.i


Coming with the clouds does not describe an ascension or departure.It describes his coming as in Mathew 24


Mathew 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Revelation 1:7
Look, he is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.” So shall it be! Amen.

Yep, you make the same mistake many others do, but there's no question that Daniel 7:13-14 is about His ascension. You see the reference to Him coming with the clouds of heaven and that immediately makes you think of Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 1:7. But, you fail to notice where it shows Him going to with the clouds of heaven. Not towards earth, but rather to heaven. Where else but heaven would He go to come before God the Father's presence, as Daniel 7:13 describes? That passage is referring to the time when Jesus ascended to the right hand of the Father in heaven.

 

[tailgator]

Yes, but I'm sure we disagree on what that means. Do you understand that the visions described in Daniel 7:2-14 are explained in verses 17-27? If so, then would you agree that Daniel 7:27 is an explanation of what Daniel 7:13-14 is about? If so, then do you understand that Daniel 7:13-14 refers to the ascension of Jesus Christ?

Ok ,now we are getting somewhere.
You say you agree with Daniel that the beasts kingdom is consumed and then given to the saints.

Daniel 7
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Seeing you say you agree the beasts kingdom is consumed and then given to the saints ,then do you agree the same beasts kingdom in revelation is consumed and his kingdom given to the saints ?

Revelation 19
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Ok ,now we are getting somewhere.
You say you agree with Daniel that the beasts kingdom is consumed and then given to the saints.

I didn't say that. Why would the saints want the beast's kingdom, which is evil? No, the kingdom of Christ is given to the saints. The beast's kingdom is destroyed.

But, I know from what you said in another post that we're not really getting anywhere because you don't recognize that Daniel 7:13-14, which Daniel 7:27 relates to, is about the ascension of Christ. It shows Him going to the Father, not to earth. You miss that detail because of your doctrinal bias.

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

It shows Jesus coming where? To earth? No. He comes to "the Ancient of days". That's a reference to God the Father. Where is He? In heaven, right? Think about it. Take your premil glasses off so that you can see what scripture actually says.

Notice, it shows Jesus being given dominion and a kingdom here. That is the kingdom given to the saints, not the beast's kingdom. Think about it. An evil kingdom being given to the saints? How does that make any sense? No, it's Christ's kingdom being given to them. The kingdom we are in right now.

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

 

[tailgator]

I didn't say that. Why would the saints want the beast's kingdom, which is evil? No, the kingdom of Christ is given to the saints. The beast's kingdom is destroyed.

But, I know from what you said in another post that we're not really getting anywhere because you don't recognize that Daniel 7:13-14, which Daniel 7:27 relates to, is about the ascension of Christ. It shows Him going to the Father, not to earth. You miss that detail because of your doctrinal bias.

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

It shows Jesus coming where? To earth? No. He comes to "the Ancient of days". That's a reference to God the Father. Where is He? In heaven, right? Think about it. Take your premil glasses off so that you can see what scripture actually says.

Notice, it shows Jesus being given dominion and a kingdom here. That is the kingdom given to the saints, not the beast's kingdom. Think about it. An evil kingdom being given to the saints? How does that make any sense? No, it's Christ's kingdom being given to them. The kingdom we are in right now.

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

The kingdom.is taken from the beast and given to the saints.Its called the promised land because it was promised to the saints thousands of years ago.

And you ask why would they want it.
Go figure.

 

[tailgator]

I didn't say that. Why would the saints want the beast's kingdom, which is evil? No, the kingdom of Christ is given to the saints. The beast's kingdom is destroyed.

But, I know from what you said in another post that we're not really getting anywhere because you don't recognize that Daniel 7:13-14, which Daniel 7:27 relates to, is about the ascension of Christ. It shows Him going to the Father, not to earth. You miss that detail because of your doctrinal bias.

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

It shows Jesus coming where? To earth? No. He comes to "the Ancient of days". That's a reference to God the Father. Where is He? In heaven, right? Think about it. Take your premil glasses off so that you can see what scripture actually says.

Notice, it shows Jesus being given dominion and a kingdom here. That is the kingdom given to the saints, not the beast's kingdom. Think about it. An evil kingdom being given to the saints? How does that make any sense? No, it's Christ's kingdom being given to them. The kingdom we are in right now.

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Revelation 20
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


You actually believe your in a kingdom of priests and fire is going to come down out of heaven and devour everyone who surrounds you?
Your on that kingdom?

 

[tailgator]

I didn't say that. Why would the saints want the beast's kingdom, which is evil? No, the kingdom of Christ is given to the saints. The beast's kingdom is destroyed.

But, I know from what you said in another post that we're not really getting anywhere because you don't recognize that Daniel 7:13-14, which Daniel 7:27 relates to, is about the ascension of Christ. It shows Him going to the Father, not to earth. You miss that detail because of your doctrinal bias.

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

It shows Jesus coming where? To earth? No. He comes to "the Ancient of days". That's a reference to God the Father. Where is He? In heaven, right? Think about it. Take your premil glasses off so that you can see what scripture actually says.

Notice, it shows Jesus being given dominion and a kingdom here. That is the kingdom given to the saints, not the beast's kingdom. Think about it. An evil kingdom being given to the saints? How does that make any sense? No, it's Christ's kingdom being given to them. The kingdom we are in right now.

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Well,to keep verses in context.It sayd the beasts kingdom is consumed and then given to the saints.
Pretty cut and dry there.

Daniel 7
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

It only took two verses to say what happens to that kingdom.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The kingdom.is taken from the beast and given to the saints.Its called the promised land because it was promised to the saints thousands of years ago.

And you ask why would they want it.
Go figure.

You think the saints would accept an evil kingdom? What are you even thinking here? No, it's Christ's kingdom that that they are given. This is hopeless to get you to understand what Daniel 7 is about, so I'm done with this particular discussion.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well,to keep verses in context.It sayd the beasts kingdom is consumed and then given to the saints.
Pretty cut and dry there.

Daniel 7
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

If you remember that Daniel 7:27 is part of the explanation given for Daniel 7:13-14, then you should see that's talking about the kingdom given to Christ that Daniel 7:14 references, which is not the beast's kingdom which is instead destroyed. If you can't understand that then you likely can't understand anything.

 

[tailgator]

You think the saints would accept an evil kingdom? What are you even thinking here? No, it's Christ's kingdom that that they are given. This is hopeless to get you to understand what Daniel 7 is about, so I'm done with this particular discussion.

The only people in it are the people who don't burn.Why do you believe holy people are evil?


Mathew 13:41
The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.
They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.



What makes you think this kingdom which is consumed in fire is evil after the tares have all be burned up?

 

[tailgator]

If you remember that Daniel 7:27 is part of the explanation given for Daniel 7:13-14, then you should see that's talking about the kingdom given to Christ that Daniel 7:14 references, which is not the beast's kingdom which is instead destroyed. If you can't understand that then you likely can't understand anything.

The kingdom isn't given to Christ till the seventh Trump when the beast is consumed.

15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”

 

[Marty fox]

Daniel 7:13
“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.i


Coming with the clouds does not describe an ascension or departure.It describes his coming as in Mathew 24


Mathew 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Revelation 1:7
Look, he is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.” So shall it be! Amen.

Matthew 24 & Revelation 1 is Jesus coming in judgement.

Daniel 7 is Jesus ascension back up to heaven notice that it says Jesus approaches the Father who is up in heaven?

 

[tailgator]

If you remember that Daniel 7:27 is part of the explanation given for Daniel 7:13-14, then you should see that's talking about the kingdom given to Christ that Daniel 7:14 references, which is not the beast's kingdom which is instead destroyed. If you can't understand that then you likely can't understand anything.

The kingdom is taken from.the beast and given to the saints.It doesnt make the kingdom evil.

Mathew 21:43
Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.


Just because the rulers of that kingdom was evil does not make the kingdom itself evil after everyone who does evil in that kingdom is consumed.