The Sabbath Day

[Robert Gwin]

On what authority do you make such a claim?

Also for adultery. In fact, the NT testifies to theOT truth that all sin is deserving of death. Is the 4th commandment the only one you've disobeyed,?

Are you actually telling me that you have never violated the Sabbath Brake? No I have violated adultery, serving other gods, honoring father and mother, graven images, bearing false witness, coveting, wow, until you asked me that I didn't really even know that I had violated so many. How many have you violated sir?

 

[Brakelite]

I really thank you for this post Dan, you made it easy for me to make notes where those laws were carried over to Christians, thanks much sir.

Mmmm. So despite the fact that the Sabbath is a holy day, still, there being no declaration from God otherwise, Christians are now free to profane that which is holy? When pray tell, did this abomination of spiritual rebellion enter the church?

 

[Brakelite]

Are you actually telling me that you have never violated the Sabbath Brake? No I have violated adultery, serving other gods, honoring father and mother, graven images, bearing false witness, coveting, wow, until you asked me that I didn't really even know that I had violated so many. How many have you violated sir?

All of them. Numerous times over. But what has that got to do with the topic at hand? Because we have sinned yesterday, does that excuse us from doing right tomorrow?

 

[Bob Estey]

You only need one day of rest. I need a lot more than that.

That is unusual. You need sleep?

 

[Bob Estey]

No. Just change the focus of what we work on. Work on what has eternal value. We do not hear of any saints in the Bible "retiring".

I do some volunteer work.

 

[Robert Gwin]

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It just doesn't make sense to me to state that Christians are under different law and then to say God doesn't change without explaining what appears to be a distinction without a difference.
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But Galatians 6:2 isn't descriptive of that law at all, Rob.
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'Pleasure's all mine, my friend. Nice jabberin' with you. :)

It just doesn't make sense to me to state that Christians are under different law and then to say God doesn't change without explaining what appears to be a distinction without a difference.
Bob is fine Q, I guess to illustrate it, when was the last time you went to Jerusalem to sacrifice at the temple? You are quite correct God does not change, but keep in mind the reason for the Law covenant, it was a tutor leading to the Christ, a perfect law that drove home the point that man cannot live that law to the full, and needed the ransom. Most likely in the new Kingdom many of those laws will return, who knows. We will be going back to our original purpose, in fact only a few requirements, don't eat of the one tree, name and have dominion over the animals, procreate till the earth was filled. New Scriplls will be opened when the Kingdom comes, right now most of us envision different things of how the Kingdom will play out. Time alone will reveal the truth.

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But Galatians 6:2 isn't descriptive of that law at all, Rob.
That verse shows that there is such a thing called the Law of Christ sir. The teachings of Jesus and the apostles recorded for us in the Greek scriptures are that law. Things like teaching others all the things Jesus commanded Mat 28:20; and attending meetings Heb 10:24,25 are just a couple of the requirements of the law of Christ.
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'Pleasure's all mine, my friend. Nice jabberin' with you. :)[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your kind comment Q

 

[GEN2REV]

The KJV also has bread...lechem, not man (manna)

Well, that's a shame.

 

[BarneyFife]

Since the old covenant has been made obsolete by the new covenant, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God has made obsolete the old covenant to put into place the new covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13) The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2) Love fulfills the law. (Romans 13:8-10) Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7; 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

I sincerely hope that your evidence holds up in court.

 

[BarneyFife]

It just doesn't make sense to me to state that Christians are under different law and then to say God doesn't change without explaining what appears to be a distinction without a difference.
Bob is fine Q, I guess to illustrate it, when was the last time you went to Jerusalem to sacrifice at the temple? You are quite correct God does not change, but keep in mind the reason for the Law covenant, it was a tutor leading to the Christ, a perfect law that drove home the point that man cannot live that law to the full, and needed the ransom. Most likely in the new Kingdom many of those laws will return, who knows. We will be going back to our original purpose, in fact only a few requirements, don't eat of the one tree, name and have dominion over the animals, procreate till the earth was filled. New Scriplls will be opened when the Kingdom comes, right now most of us envision different things of how the Kingdom will play out. Time alone will reveal the truth.

,

,
But Galatians 6:2 isn't descriptive of that law at all, Rob.
That verse shows that there is such a thing called the Law of Christ sir. The teachings of Jesus and the apostles recorded for us in the Greek scriptures are that law. Things like teaching others all the things Jesus commanded Mat 28:20; and attending meetings Heb 10:24,25 are just a couple of the requirements of the law of Christ.
,

,
'Pleasure's all mine, my friend. Nice jabberin' with you. :)

Thanks for your kind comment Q

It sounds good, Bob (Barn's still good, btw), and your kindness in the matter certainly is refreshing and really convicts me about the way I've addressed some people in the past, even yourself.

But it seems to me that the term "law of Christ" is so vague and the evidence for Sabbath abrogation so weak that I don't see how anyone can conclude that God changed His moral code for human beings. I know we don't agree on the substantive relationship between Christ and Jehovah but, after all, Jesus did say "I and my Father are one" and if by that He didn't mean that they were one in purpose and principle, what did He mean?

There had to have been a time in Witness history that the Sabbath was considered compulsory for believers, no? I've actually been thinking of trying to hunt down some old Witness teaching material to see if that is the case.

I have yet to have anyone tell me that this Sabbath abrogation thing was going on in the mid-to-late-20th century.

And I can't see how folks can believe that the Christian church was out of the loop for almost 2000 years on their duty to God as regards the 4th commandment. Aren't the main Kingdom Hall worship services held every Sunday?

Aren't these questions worth asking, Bob? :)

 

[1stCenturyLady]

That is unusual. You need sleep?

I'm a human being, and I need sleep every night, and sometimes a nap too.

 

[Bob Estey]

I'm a human being, and I need sleep every night, and sometimes a nap too.

I checked your profile. You are too young for naps.

 

[farouk]

It's OK, we don't, but if one wishes to observe a Sabbath Day they are free to do so, that is what Romans 14 is all about!

Paul in writing to the Corinthians acknowledged the early church met on Sunday>

1 Corinthians 16:1-3
King James Version

16 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.

Paul strongly implies here that the church met on Sunday. But Sunday is not the Sabbath and the church is not bound to the Sabbath. The Sabbath was given to the jews as a sign between them and God!

Exodus 31:13
Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.



also, when the church was all jewish, the believers would stay after Sabbath service and when sundown came (beginning of Sunday) they would hold a Christian worship service.

@Ronald Nolette Romans 14 takes care of a lot of legal matters which some may practise but others do not....

 

[farouk]

I'm a human being, and I need sleep every night, and sometimes a nap too.

LOL :)

I know the feeling...

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The 613 "Mitzvot" thing is bogus because even the Jewish rabbinical order can't agree on what constitutes it.

I hold fast to that which is good and rely on the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ alone for the ministration of my title to citizenship in the Kingdom of God.

Do "New Covenant" evangelicals adhere to the 1050 commands given in the New Testament (Covenant)?

That is our goal to show we are righteous because of christ!


But what say you about Paul's dictate on the laws written in stone?

2 Corinthians 3:7-11
King James Version

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Or Paul talking about observing a day?

Romans 14
King James Version

14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

And please don't say it is about feast DAYS! I think god is smart enough to make the word day plural when He inspired it to be written.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The church is the Israel of God.

Not even close! Israel is the Israel of God. This is twisting the word of God to redefine it.

...which kinda-sorta proves nothing.

The hate for God's law is raging on.

Well as I do not hate the law of god- this is an inane comment. But once again, in the word of God for the Church, one is free to keep a sabbath or free not to. You are free to observe the Sabbath or not. but to tell others they sin if they do not keep Sabbath, makes you guilty of th esin of judging others falsely.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I checked your profile. You are too young for naps.

Just got up from a nap. I feel better now.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The odd paradigm shift to equating the obsolete ceremonial, Levitical rites of law with the Decalogue is the strangest thing I have ever witnessed in human behavior. It is why we have the rack and ruin we have in society today. The church is the forerunner of morality and it has capitulated to the sensuality and materialism of the world. In doing so the church has rendered itself more guilty than the unknowing world (Matthew 12:43-45). Many are offended by this kind of reproof, but I say, I submit it nonetheless for the consideration of all who will hear the voice of one crying in the wilderness: Prepare ye the way of the LORD; make His ways straight!

All 613 including teh tables of stone were fulfilled and rendered obsolete. It is only modern heretical Covenant theology and Pharisees that say the Ten Commandments are still active for the church. YOu have drank tainted kool-aid.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Oh, now you're Jewish? Your true identity and purpose for being here is coming to the Light. The Truth always comes out.

No, a gentile who is saved!

You're ignoring the verse that was presented. That's your usual M.O.
Deuteronomy 29:14-15

Okay. It was said that way and explained later that the Sabbath is for Israel and all gentile prolytes! Not for teh gentiles who did not convert to Judaism. Unless you can show a verse that shows all that ( AND NOT A MISREADING OF THIS POST) YOU ARE MISTAKEN GRAVELY.

Those aren't part of the 10 Commandments.

Those aren't part of the Ministration of Righteousness.

Those aren't valid since Christ's Crucifixion.

You are right, they are not part of the ten commandments.

You are wrong- for the ten commandments are not a ministration of righteousness, but a ministration of condemnation and as Paul said- was done away with!

Find me a new Testament verse that says all 10 commandments are still valid for the church. I know nine of the ten were carried over, but the Sabbath wasn't. As I showed you it was sign between God and Israel ( I noticed you didn't comment on that- that is your M.O.)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

@Ronald Nolette Romans 14 takes care of a lot of legal matters which some may practise but others do not....

Both legalism and liberalism are virulent cancers that take and destroy the souls of many believers. It causes them to twist teh Scriptures to their own destruction.

 

[farouk]

Both legalism and liberalism are virulent cancers that take and destroy the souls of many believers. It causes them to twist teh Scriptures to their own destruction.

@Ronald Nolette Balance, receiving the meaning of words in Scripture in their context, is so important.....