The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

[BarneyFife]

To all:

Many people either believe in one wrong extreme or the other. Some believe it is all a belief alone in Jesus and or the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 that saves and that is all we have to do to be saved forever (i.e. Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism). Others wrongfully make it all about works to a point about how we are even saved by works in our Initial Salvation (i.e. Works ALONE Salvationism). This is also false. They think we have to be water baptized to be initially saved (Making it all about works and no grace ever).

We need a healthy balance between being saved by God’s grace without works (Ephesians 2:8-9), and God having chosen us to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

Some misread the words of Paul like in 1 Corinthians 1:18 as if he was teaching Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism. But if they were to keep reading Paul, he teaches that one can deny the faith and be worse than infidel by not providing for one’s own (See: 1 Timothy 5:8). Paul says if we live after the flesh (sin), we will die (die spiritually), but if we put to death the misdeeds of the body (sin) by the Spirit, we will live (live eternally) (Romans 8:13).

Belief Alone Salvationists also fail to understand that believing in Jesus is more than just believing in the person of Jesus Christ for salvation but it is also believing in everything He taught said, and did. We also have to keep His words in order to never die. John 8:51 says, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”. So the Belief Alone Salvationists is not believing the whole counsel of God’s Word (pure and simple). They are only reading and believing verses out of context to the rest of God’s Word.

Also, while gifts are free, gifts can also be lost and or forfeited by the person if they don’t take care of those gifts. If somebody gave you a car, that does not mean you cannot lose your car by irresponsible with it.

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Why not just state your case instead of trying to dictate to others what you have determined they believe?

Why do so many people indulge in this kind of stuff?

This really isn't even personal, BH.

I just came away from being hounded to make some kind of admission or declaration of something I don't endorse in the slightest.

Why do people want so badly to pigeonhole and trap each other like this?

I just don't get it.
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[Bible Highlighter]

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Why not just state your case instead of trying to dictate to others what you have determined they believe?

Why do so many people indulge in this kind of stuff?

This really isn't even personal, BH.

I just came away from being hounded to make some kind of admission or declaration of something I don't endorse in the slightest.

Why do people want so badly to pigeonhole and trap each other like this?

I just don't get it.
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Do you see all religions as valid? Do you see all believers who simply say they believe in Jesus are saved? If so… what about George Sodini?
I also cannot unlearn what I know from what the Bible says. I am merely talking from my own experience and knowledge from God’s Word (Which you are not accepting). 2 Timothy 3:1-9. Who do you think that it is talking to? Then there are those who preach another Jesus according to Paul. Are those who preach another Jesus…. saved?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

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Why not just state your case instead of trying to dictate to others what you have determined they believe?

Why do so many people indulge in this kind of stuff?

This really isn't even personal, BH.

I just came away from being hounded to make some kind of admission or declaration of something I don't endorse in the slightest.

Why do people want so badly to pigeonhole and trap each other like this?

I just don't get it.
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In other words, you make it sound like the gate or entrance is a wide gate and not a narrow gate. Jesus says many will try to enter and not be able to (Luke 13:24). This is why Jesus says not everyone who says unto me Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven but he that does the will of my Father (See: Matthew 7:21).

 

[BarneyFife]

Good grief, BH. Could you be any more uptight?
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I am merely talking from my own experience and knowledge from God’s Word (Which you are not accepting).

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Can you think of any reason why I should blindly accept your "experience and knowledge from God's Word" over someone else's?

How arrogant can you get?
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1 Timothy 3:1-9. Who do you think that it is talking to?

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Did you reference the wrong Scripture or something?

What do the qualifications for pastors and deacons have to do with what we're talking about?
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In other words, you make it sound like the gate or entrance is a wide gate and not a narrow gate.

Do you see all religions as valid? Do you see all believers who simply say they believe in Jesus are saved? If so… what about George Sodini?

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Got any more straw men you want to trot out?
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Then there are those who preach another Jesus according to Paul. Are those who preach another Jesus…. saved?

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I never thought I'd get sick of hearing the word "saved" but you might've put it over the top, BH.

Are you going to save us all?

Because the way you carry on, you'd think it all depended on you.

Did the Holy Ghost join the "Big Quit" or something?
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[Bible Highlighter]

Good grief, BH. Could you be any more uptight?
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Can you think of any reason why I should blindly accept your "experience and knowledge from God's Word" over someone else's?

How arrogant can you get?
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Did you reference the wrong Scripture or something?

What do the qualifications for pastors and deacons have to do with what we're talking about?
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Got any more straw men you want to trot out?
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I never thought I'd get sick of hearing the word "saved" but you might've put it over the top, BH.

Are you going to save us all?

Because the way you carry on, you'd think it all depended on you.

Did the Holy Ghost join the "Big Quit" or something?
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Yes. I meant 2 Timothy 3:1-9. Which individuals do you think that this could be referring to? I see it as fake believers who deceive. See 2 Timothy 3:13.

 

[BarneyFife]

I meant 2 Timothy 3:1-9. Which individuals do you think that this could be referring to?

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I think it is referring to me.


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[farouk]

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I think it is referring to me.


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I don't even understand the premise of the OP.................

 

[farouk]

PS: Ephesians 2.8-9; Hebrews 11: "by faith"; "by faith"....

 

[BarneyFife]

I don't even understand the premise of the OP.................

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It's the same old faith vs. works debate. One side believes the other side believes in legalism, and one side believes the other side believes in lawlessness.
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[farouk]

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It's the same old faith vs. works debate. One side believes the other side believes in legalism, and one side believes the other side believes in lawlessness.
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Well, Philippians 1.6 is very strong: "He that hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ". The very fact that we believe and obey the Lord in the first place is by His grace, not of human merit..............

 

[BarneyFife]

I don't even understand the premise of the OP.................

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Oh, with the exception that in this case the Protestant segment of Christianity, in particular, is being blamed for the lawlessness.
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[BarneyFife]

Well, Philippians 1.6 is very strong: "He that hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ". The very fact that we believe and obey the Lord in the first place is by His grace, not of human merit..............

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Brother F, You just fell headlong right into the trap that is constantly being set. Because even if you don't take sides in the argument, nearly anything you say that appears to favor one view or the other will be construed as whole-hearted support of an extreme position.

It is not inconsistent to say that, while the purchase of one's salvation consists of not one iota of creature merit, the obedience of God's law is required of the Christian as proof that the heart has been/is being renewed (for our works are surely how we are judged) unless you believe in an extreme form of eternal security that requires no Christian growth in grace whatsoever.
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[farouk]

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Brother F, You just fell headlong right into the trap that is constantly being set. Because even if you don't take sides in the argument, nearly anything you say that appears to favor one view or the other will be construed as whole-hearted support of an extreme position.

It is not inconsistent to say that, while the purchase of one's salvation consists of not one iota of creature merit, the obedience of God's law is required of the Christian as proof that the heart has been/is being renewed (for our works are surely how we are judged) unless you believe in an extreme form of eternal security that requires no Christian growth in grace whatsoever.
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Romans 8 is a great chapter.............

 

[BarneyFife]

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And I'm just as sure as shootin' that what I just said will be seized upon as a legalist declaration by someone (that is, if anyone is monitoring this thread anymore).
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[BarneyFife]

Romans 8 is a great chapter.............

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Who could've seen that comin'?
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[BarneyFife]

Romans 8 is a great chapter.............

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So is Romans 7 and Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5. :)
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[farouk]

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Who could've seen that comin'?
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Well, Romans 8 IS a great chapter with a lot of interrelated, encouraging and strengthening doctrine...........

 

[Taken]

The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.
OP^

Salvation IS a PROMISED Gift:
Salvation IS a Promised Gift RECEIVED unto a Believer ON THE DAY that Believer Dies.

Don’t BELIEVE on the day you DIE...you rejected the Promised Gift, therefore Forfeited your Gift.

Belief in the Lord God IS the paramount highlight to whit a person WHO does so Believe in the Lord God ON the day of that persons death;
THAT PERSON SHALL BE SAVED ON THAT DAY he DIES.

The person HAS accomplished the ONE WORKS Gods Requires to RECEIVE Gods Gift of SALVATION.

That which IS satisfactory TO God, makes a mans complaints, accusations, additions, requirements, moot.

John 6:
[28] Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Luke 23:
[42] And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
[43] And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

 

[Behold]

Salvation IS a Promised Gift RECEIVED unto a Believer ON THE DAY that Believer Dies.

IF what you are saying is true, then a person is not born again, and they do not become a Son of God, when God accepts their faith, and they become a "new creation in Christ"........now "seated in Heavenly places".

Listen..

You could not be "The Temple of the Holy Spirit" if you didn't have Salvation.

You could not be "ONE with GOD", if you didnt have Salvation.

You can't be BORN AGAIN, if you don't Salvation.

"the GIFT of Salvation" is what God gives you when you BELIEVE IN JESUS, and become born again.

You could not be a "heir of God", and a "Joint Heir with Jesus", if you didnt have Salvation.

You could not be forgiven of your sin, if you didn't have Salvation.

Jesus said...>"all that believe in me, i give unto them, eternal life"...."and they shall never perish".. = So you could not have eternal life, if you didn't have Salvation.

Paul told you to "work out your Salvation, in awe and reverence",(fear and trembling)....and you could not work it out if you didnt have Salvation.


There IS a "inheritance" that is coming to all that have Salvation......after they die. But you have to have to have Salvation, to get the inheritance after you die.

 

[Taken]

IF what you are saying is true, then a person is not born again, and they do not become a Son of God, when God accepts their faith, and they become a "new creation in Christ"........now "seated in Heavenly places".

Listen..

You could not be "The Temple of the Holy Spirit" if you didn't have Salvation.

You could not be "ONE with GOD", if you didnt have Salvation.

You can't be BORN AGAIN, if you don't Salvation.

"the GIFT of Salvation" is what God gives you when you BELIEVE IN JESUS, and become born again.

You could not be a "heir of God", and a "Joint Heir with Jesus", if you didnt have Salvation.

You could not be forgiven of your sin, if you didn't have Salvation.

Jesus said...>"all that believe in me, i give unto them, eternal life"...."and they shall never perish".. = So you could not have eternal life, if you didn't have Salvation.

Paul told you to "work out your Salvation, in awe and reverence",(fear and trembling)....and you could not work it out if you didnt have Salvation.

No Kidding. Neither have I said otherwise.

There IS a "inheritance" that is coming to all that have Salvation......after they die. But you have to have to have Salvation, to get the inheritance after you die.

Do not agree with your wording.

Men have the Promise of Salvation.....IF, they believe, WHEN, they die, they BECOME SAVED ON THE DAY OF THEIR DEATH....and expressly WHY, “OSAS” is absolute.

Salvation is NOT GIVEN, before a Death takes place.