The Problem Of Pain

[aspen]

The problem of evil in the world is purely a monotheistic problem. All other religions - especially those with dualistic systems have answers to the problem of pain. The reason Christianity struggles with this problem is because we preach a Good God - He is all powerful, ever-present, and all knowing - yet evil still exists. Since a good God cannot remain good if He creates evil - where does it come from? And why does it happen to good people?

Some Christians believe God creates evil - and quote a scripture in Isaiah to back up their claims

Others, claim that good and evil are equal forces

Still others believe that we all deserve much worse than we are getting and should stop whining and start obeying an angry God.

And many believe all three.

The story of evil starts in the Garden - A&E's disobedience and failure to repent ushered in sin, which is the misuse of creation and God's purpose for our lives - the result of sin is evil. Evil is the lack of Good - it is not a force unto itself. We were created to love God and love each other - this was our primary purpose. A&E decided to add determining good and evil to their list of duties - since they were never created to determine good and evil, they were unprepared to take on the responsibility and never needed to since evil never needed to be experienced or even encountered. So, God not only decided to teach us how to love again, He added to our purpose and experience through an added blessing - forgiveness - the highest form of love. He forgave us and is teaching us to receive forgiveness, forgive ourselves, and others.

Therefore, bad things happen to everyone so that we can learn how to forgive and receive forgiveness. The problem of Pain is Forgiveness.

Peace

 

[Foreigner]

An excellent book on the subject is called 'Wrecked' written by Ryan Dobson and Toby Heim

It covers how your life can be wrecked for several reason including obedience to God.

 

[aspen]

An excellent book on the subject is called 'Wrecked' written by Ryan Dobson and Toby Heim

It covers how your life can be wrecked for several reason including obedience to God.

Interesting, I will check it out.

 

[religusnut]

The problem of evil in the world is purely a monotheistic problem. All other religions - especially those with dualistic systems have answers to the problem of pain. The reason Christianity struggles with this problem is because we preach a Good God - He is all powerful, ever-present, and all knowing - yet evil still exists. Since a good God cannot remain good if He creates evil - where does it come from? And why does it happen to good people?

Some Christians believe God creates evil - and quote a scripture in Isaiah to back up their claims

Others, claim that good and evil are equal forces

Still others believe that we all deserve much worse than we are getting and should stop whining and start obeying an angry God.

And many believe all three.

The story of evil starts in the Garden - A&E's disobedience and failure to repent ushered in sin, which is the misuse of creation and God's purpose for our lives - the result of sin is evil. Evil is the lack of Good - it is not a force unto itself. We were created to love God and love each other - this was our primary purpose. A&E decided to add determining good and evil to their list of duties - since they were never created to determine good and evil, they were unprepared to take on the responsibility and never needed to since evil never needed to be experienced or even encountered. So, God not only decided to teach us how to love again, He added to our purpose and experience through an added blessing - forgiveness - the highest form of love. He forgave us and is teaching us to receive forgiveness, forgive ourselves, and others.

Therefore, bad things happen to everyone so that we can learn how to forgive and receive forgiveness. The problem of Pain is Forgiveness.

Peace

Actually all Christians don't struggle with this problem. Only those that discount the devil. Good and evil are never equal. If it is good and perfect it comes from God it not it comes from the devil. That is not rocket science. I actually taught on that one today. My class was called Discernment.

Bad things happen because of sin. Our sin, the sins of others, Adam's sin which caused a fallen world.........

God did according to the scripture you gave indeed create evil. If there were no evil then there would be no choices. Evil is not sin until it is acted upon.

The pain we have from memories is bitterness. Any memory that has pain in it has bitterness in it. That pain only goes away if there if forgiveness or repentance.

We teach this in a seminar series called Finding Freedom and see people set free from everything from emotional to physical illness and many other situations in life.

 

[aspen]

Actually all Christians don't struggle with this problem.

Well, it has been one of the biggest questions theologians have struggled with throughout the entire history of the Christian Church - CS Lewis wrote two books on the subject: "The Problem of Pain" and "A Grief Observed".

Only those that discount the devil.

Hmm.....so only people who deny the power of the Devil struggle with why pain is allowed to exist in the world? Too bad Augustine never thought of this idea....

Good and evil are never equal.

That is because evil is the absence of Good - a compromised form of the Good - a half-truth or shortcoming.

If it is good and perfect it comes from God it not it comes from the devil.

What if "it" is good, but not perfect? What if a good choice or intention results in pain or evil? How do you decide if a decision is good or bad?

That is not rocket science.

No worries, your thought process has convinced me that you truly believe this idea......

I actually taught on that one today.

You.....teach?

My class was called Discernment.

So, how do you discern the best choice to make?

Bad things happen because of sin.

The word "bad" and "sin" are synonyms. You may as well have said "bad things happen because of bad things" or "sin happens because of sin".

Our sin, the sins of others, Adam's sin which caused a fallen world.........

Sin causes corruption or evil outcomes - ok

God did according to the scripture you gave indeed create evil.

Once again, the point of this verse is to illustrate God's omnipotence and sovereignty. God did not create evil - He did create the capacity for evil because His creation was made with the capacity to be misused. However, He did not will evil or sinful behavior from His creation. Adam and Eve were the one's who actually misused His creation (sin),

If there was no evil then there would be no choices.

Here is an example of a heresy taught by the LDS Church. Mormons teach that humans were told not to sin by God, who secretly wanted them to sin so that they could receive freewill and than punished them for disobeying Him. Not only is this idea totally illogical (how could Adam and Eve make the choice to eat the fruit if they didn't have freewill?), it is unbiblical (Adam and Eve had freewill before the Fall - Adam chose names for the animals), it equates God's character with that of an abusive parent, rather than the Good Father we know Him to be.

In addition, it makes Good dependent on evil. In order to know Good (get freewill) we have to know evil (disobey God). Jesus did not tell us to go out and sin so that we could know the Father. He told us that to know Him (Jesus the Good)) was to know the Father.

Finally, it is a fool's errand - Adam and Eve never had to discern between good and evil if they didn't sin and introduce evil into the world.

Evil is not sin until it is acted upon.

Now this is a great example of how literal interpretation trumps logic. You read in Isaiah that God created evil, but the Bible never says that God created sin, therefore evil must not be sin! And since only humans create sin - it must be true that evil proceeds sin - hey, I know - evil becomes sin when it is acted on!! Oh the mental gymnastics it takes to be a literalist!! Of course, truth is reached so much more easily - according to the dictionary evil and sin are related - they both share the same synonym - bad.

The pain we have from memories is bitterness.

If the pain is unresolved it may result in feelings of bitterness / anger.

Any memory that has pain in it has bitterness in it.

Wrong. Unresolved pain may result in self-pity (why me?) - leading to bitterness / anger (I didn't deserve this!) - which may lead to depression (I deserved it because I am worthless). Sounds like you may have some unresolved pain in your life.

That pain only goes away if there if forgiveness or repentance.

Wrong. Repentance and forgiveness are both part of the work of the Holy Spirit in our sanctification process. An effective way to help resolve pain is to grieve. There is a process that grief usually follows - shock and denial / pain and guilt / anger and bargaining / depression, reflection, loneliness / the upward turn / reconstruction / acceptance and hope.

We teach this in a seminar series called Finding Freedom and see people set free from everything from emotional to physical illness and many other situations in life.

So you are a counselor?

 

[religusnut]

Actually all Christians don't struggle with this problem.

Well, it has been one of the biggest questions theologians have struggled with throughout the entire history of the Christian Church - CS Lewis wrote two books on the subject: "The Problem of Pain" and "A Grief Observed".

Only those that discount the devil.

Hmm.....so only people who deny the power of the Devil struggle with why pain is allowed to exist in the world? Too bad Augustine never thought of this idea....

Good and evil are never equal.

That is because evil is the absence of Good - a compromised form of the Good - a half-truth or shortcoming.

If it is good and perfect it comes from God it not it comes from the devil.

What if "it" is good, but not perfect? What if a good choice or intention results in pain or evil? How do you decide if a decision is good or bad?

That is not rocket science.

No worries, your thought process has convinced me that you truly believe this idea......

I actually taught on that one today.

You.....teach?

My class was called Discernment.

So, how do you discern the best choice to make?

Bad things happen because of sin.

The word "bad" and "sin" are synonyms. You may as well have said "bad things happen because of bad things" or "sin happens because of sin".

Our sin, the sins of others, Adam's sin which caused a fallen world.........

Sin causes corruption or evil outcomes - ok

God did according to the scripture you gave indeed create evil.

Once again, the point of this verse is to illustrate God's omnipotence and sovereignty. God did not create evil - He did create the capacity for evil because His creation was made with the capacity to be misused. However, He did not will evil or sinful behavior from His creation. Adam and Eve were the one's who actually misused His creation (sin),

If there was no evil then there would be no choices.

Here is an example of a heresy taught by the LDS Church. Mormons teach that humans were told not to sin by God, who secretly wanted them to sin so that they could receive freewill and than punished them for disobeying Him. Not only is this idea totally illogical (how could Adam and Eve make the choice to eat the fruit if they didn't have freewill?), it is unbiblical (Adam and Eve had freewill before the Fall - Adam chose names for the animals), it equates God's character with that of an abusive parent, rather than the Good Father we know Him to be.

In addition, it makes Good dependent on evil. In order to know Good (get freewill) we have to know evil (disobey God). Jesus did not tell us to go out and sin so that we could know the Father. He told us that to know Him (Jesus the Good)) was to know the Father.

Finally, it is a fool's errand - Adam and Eve never had to discern between good and evil if they didn't sin and introduce evil into the world.

Evil is not sin until it is acted upon.

Now this is a great example of how literal interpretation trumps logic. You read in Isaiah that God created evil, but the Bible never says that God created sin, therefore evil must not be sin! And since only humans create sin - it must be true that evil proceeds sin - hey, I know - evil becomes sin when it is acted on!! Oh the mental gymnastics it takes to be a literalist!! Of course, truth is reached so much more easily - according to the dictionary evil and sin are related - they both share the same synonym - bad.

The pain we have from memories is bitterness.

If the pain is unresolved it may result in feelings of bitterness / anger.

Any memory that has pain in it has bitterness in it.

Wrong. Unresolved pain may result in self-pity (why me?) - leading to bitterness / anger (I didn't deserve this!) - which may lead to depression (I deserved it because I am worthless). Sounds like you may have some unresolved pain in your life.

That pain only goes away if there if forgiveness or repentance.

Wrong. Repentance and forgiveness are both part of the work of the Holy Spirit in our sanctification process. An effective way to help resolve pain is to grieve. There is a process that grief usually follows - shock and denial / pain and guilt / anger and bargaining / depression, reflection, loneliness / the upward turn / reconstruction / acceptance and hope.

We teach this in a seminar series called Finding Freedom and see people set free from everything from emotional to physical illness and many other situations in life.

So you are a counselor?

Yep and I see some astounding good results. I have always been told that the proof is in the pudding and using the methodologies I have been taught to counsel I have seen a lot of people helped in a lot of situations.

Using the teachings you write off as stupid and useless I see people that have been on things like anti-depressants work with their doctors of course come of them and then as we work with them they do not need them further. We see people with Migraines deal with their issues and not have them any more.

Although I personally did not work with her I have met a lady that was suffering from MS and had been since 1996 that was on disability, living in a handicapped apartment, who had gotten to the point that she had to have an electric scooter and had a catheter in her body that started working with counselors in December and by May could walk as good as anybody normal and had no visible effects of the MS.

So when people like you argue with me and point out everything I teach and believe as wrong I just smile cause what I have been taught works.

 

[aspen]

Yep and I see some astounding good results. I have always been told that the proof is in the pudding and using the methodologies I have been taught to counsel I have seen a lot of people helped in a lot of situations.

Using the teachings you write off as stupid and useless I see people that have been on things like anti-depressants work with their doctors of course come of them and then as we work with them they do not need them further. We see people with Migraines deal with their issues and not have them any more.

Although I personally did not work with her I have met a lady that was suffering from MS and had been since 1996 that was on disability, living in a handicapped apartment, who had gotten to the point that she had to have an electric scooter and had a catheter in her body that started working with counselors in December and by May could walk as good as anybody normal and had no visible effects of the MS.

So when people like you argue with me and point out everything I teach and believe as wrong I just smile cause what I have been taught works.

Of course, I have never said what you believe is stupid or useless or wrong, but I know it makes you feel justified to believe I have. It fits nicely into the persecution complex that some Christians fall into. The world is attacking me - just like Jesus said it would - I must be right!.

Anti-depressants are not designed to be used long-term in most cases and they are always supposed to be accompanied by therapy.

MS can go into remission, especially when stress is minimized.

In addition, you claim to be a teacher - you do realize that teachers are going to be judged more harshly - so I hope you will recognize that teaching Christians that freewill is a result of the Fall is a heresy and that you will stop teaching it.

Finally, I am disappointed that you have decided to interpret me questions regarding your beliefs as disbelief or ridicule. For one, it shows me that you are only here to instruct, rather than share ideas, and that the anti-intellectual mindset of "God said it! I believe it!" is enough to support your literalism and faith.

 

[religusnut]

Of course, I have never said what you believe is stupid or useless or wrong, but I know it makes you feel justified to believe I have. It fits nicely into the persecution complex that some Christians fall into. The world is attacking me - just like Jesus said it would - I must be right!.

Anti-depressants are not designed to be used long-term in most cases and they are always supposed to be accompanied by therapy.

MS can go into remission, especially when stress is minimized.

In addition, you claim to be a teacher - you do realize that teachers are going to be judged more harshly - so I hope you will recognize that teaching Christians that freewill is a result of the Fall is a heresy and that you will stop teaching it.

Finally, I am disappointed that you have decided to interpret me questions regarding your beliefs as disbelief or ridicule. For one, it shows me that you are only here to instruct, rather than share ideas, and that the anti-intellectual mindset of "God said it! I believe it!" is enough to support your literalism and faith.

I don't know what you mean that free will is a result of the fall. Man always had free will. That is the reason that Adam could make a choice to sin or not to sin and he made the wrong choice. If there was no free will then there would be no sin and there wold be no person lost. All would be saved.

Oh my class on discernment is on discerning what is from God and what is from Satan, or discerning good and evil. Most times when tragedy strikes we will blame God for something the devil does and then it destroys our faith.

If one believes that God devastated him then it is hard to believe that God loves him and has his best interest at heart.

 

[aspen]

I don't know what you mean that free will is a result of the fall. Man always had free will. That is the reason that Adam could make a choice to sin or not to sin and he made the wrong choice. If there was no free will then there would be no sin and there wold be no person lost. All would be saved.

I got the idea from you. You stated: "If there was no evil then there would be no choices", which communicates that choices are reliant on the existence of evil.

Oh my class on discernment is on discerning what is from God and what is from Satan, or discerning good and evil. Most times when tragedy strikes we will blame God for something the devil does and then it destroys our faith.

I am wondering why we have to blame anyone? Seems to me that blaming anyone for bad things that happen externalizes the locus of control - if I blame others for bad things that happen to me, I take the place of the victim.

If one believes that God devastated him then it is hard to believe that God loves him and has his best interest at heart.


So, the answer is to blame the devil? Doesn't that simply case other problems? "I must be a victim of the Devil" Why did God allow the Devil to hurt me?" "Why did God create a force like the Devil to hurt me?"

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

I have many thoughts on this and much experience with "bad" things happening to "good" people.

There are many sins I struggle with, and some I don't struggle with at all, and yet some I just give into completely.

Sometimes I'm being disciplined, sometimes I'm being punished. But, the biggest problem that people can't wrap their heads around is this.

Sometimes things just happen. It's that simple. There's sometimes just absolutely no cause for some things.

Here's a good example.

I have arthritis in my toes, fingers, knees, shoulders, and it seems like I have some in my lower back as well. Am I being punished or disciplined? Maybe. Is it something that's common for people? Yes.

There's several other things going wrong in my life. I desperately want answers for why. I desperately look for reasons. I look at myself and know, there's somethings I do wrong, there's still many sins known and unknown in my life. According to everyone of my friends and family, I'm a great man. I know I'm not. I'm just not one of the "bad guys".

My Grandpa also had arthritis, ended his life starting with a heart attack, then alzeimers, prostate cancer, and skin cancer. He also had a son that is a staunch atheist and a horrible drunk and abusive father to me.
My Grandpa was a devout christian and was the best person I've ever known. He was a good man through and through. Did he deserve such a horrible and embarrasing end? Maybe. Maybe not. Certainly not in my eyes. But, he was very old and lived a long full good life and is no doubt going to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Life is full of many challenges, aches, pains, and sadness. We don't always think it's fair and when something bad happens, we demand to know why. We get angry at God, we condemn ourselves, the list of stupid things we do when things don't go right is never ending.

Why do bad things happen to good people? The answer is D: All of the above.

I would love to roll with the punches and maybe even duck some of them. It's something that we all must learn to do, and try to give unwavering faith in God. Despite how bad it get's, God knows what he's doing. And somethings are just a result of many variables in life that God hasn't caused, and that doesn't mean he's failed to prevent either. If we could all see the wisdom in why God allows life to run in many ways automitously we'd be very surprised and feel completely stupid.

All these things build character, and help us appreciate the other good things that happen in our lives. I'm certain if we counted the good things all up they'd far outweigh the bad things. We're all like kids in so many ways always asking, "Why, why, why, why, why, why?" when our lego airplane breaks apart or our hamster dies.

Next time you have a flat tire, or a bad day and things aren't going right,,,, don't automatically assume you're being punished or that you somehow deserve it. Somethings just happen.

 

[religusnut]

I don't know what you mean that free will is a result of the fall. Man always had free will. That is the reason that Adam could make a choice to sin or not to sin and he made the wrong choice. If there was no free will then there would be no sin and there wold be no person lost. All would be saved.


I got the idea from you. You stated: "[font="tahoma][b]If there was no evil then there would be no choices", which communicates that choices are reliant on the existence of evil.

[/b][/font][font="Arial"]Instead of saying we have a free will because of the fall of man I would understand it that the fall of man was because of free will. Adam had free will and he made wrong choices.[/font]

Oh my class on discernment is on discerning what is from God and what is from Satan, or discerning good and evil. Most times when tragedy strikes we will blame God for something the devil does and then it destroys our faith.

I am wondering why we have to blame anyone? Seems to me that blaming anyone for bad things that happen externalizes the locus of control - if I blame others for bad things that happen to me, I take the place of the victim.

Actually when we take responsibility for out actions then and only then can we deal with our issues relating to sin. It always goes back to either repentance or forgiveness.

If one believes that God devastated him then it is hard to believe that God loves him and has his best interest at heart.


So, the answer is to blame the devil? Doesn't that simply case other problems? "I must be a victim of the Devil" Why did God allow the Devil to hurt me?" "Why did God create a force like the Devil to hurt me?"

Let me see if I can explain this.
First off Jesus created Lucifer as a beautiful angel. He had a free will as well and chose to rise up and cause problems. All the "I Wills"...... He was not created to hurt you or me. He and 1/3 of the angels were cast out of heaven because of their rebellion. When he fell to earth he started tempting people. Adam and Eve to start with. When Adam sinned he opened the door for all of mankind to be tempted.
We as people suffer because:
1. The fact of a fallen world. (Adam's sin) Through Him sin entered into the world.
2. The sins of others.
3. Our sins.

We suffer because of sin, many times not necessary our own. I personally would not call it necessarily being of a victim mentality. God does not allow the devil to hurt us... he gains legal right to hurt us through sin. Sin always has consequences. Not only in the age to come but in the age we are living in now. Because we do not immediately see the consequences we do not most times comprehend them. From the moment we sin however things start to happen.

 

[religusnut]

I have many thoughts on this and much experience with "bad" things happening to "good" people.

There are many sins I struggle with, and some I don't struggle with at all, and yet some I just give into completely.

Sometimes I'm being disciplined, sometimes I'm being punished. But, the biggest problem that people can't wrap their heads around is this.

Sometimes things just happen. It's that simple. There's sometimes just absolutely no cause for some things.

Here's a good example.

I have arthritis in my toes, fingers, knees, shoulders, and it seems like I have some in my lower back as well. Am I being punished or disciplined? Maybe. Is it something that's common for people? Yes.

We teach extensively on issues associated with sickness and sin. There was no sickness in this world till sin entered in and there will be no sickness after sin is abolished. I do this in a series called Finding Freedom. 75% of all sickness can be healed through dealing with issues from the past that we need to either forgive or repent for. I find no where from the Bible that you are being disciplined. I find no where that God makes you sick. To the contrary Jesus paid the price for your sickness on the night before he was crucified. By His Stripes you were healed......

I suggest you to to akwellspring.com and order the book Biblical Foundations of Freedom. Read this book and at the end of the chapters that have an exercise that tells you to make a list of something make that list and pray the prayers associated with the list. There is another book on that same website called In His Image. In that book there are something like 200 different diseases listed and the spiritual issues associated with them. It is powerful. I personally have flown to Anchorage and gone through the two weeks of intense teaching on this material and I have seen it work with powerful results.

We teach how anxieties fears and worries which are related to sin issues cause us to be sick and we take quotes from medical case studies and medical text books and substantiate it.

When we were in Alaska in the classes the very first day there was a nurse that taught a class called Anatomy Physiology and Stress. She basically took you back to the cellular level and told you why stress made you sick. Then she showed you how sin caused stressors in your life.

There's several other things going wrong in my life. I desperately want answers for why. I desperately look for reasons. I look at myself and know, there's somethings I do wrong, there's still many sins known and unknown in my life. According to everyone of my friends and family, I'm a great man. I know I'm not. I'm just not one of the "bad guys".

My Grandpa also had arthritis, ended his life starting with a heart attack, then alzeimers, prostate cancer, and skin cancer. He also had a son that is a staunch atheist and a horrible drunk and abusive father to me.

We see many people that are good people that have sin issues like unforgiveness or fear in their lives or possibility even rejection issues in their lives that suffer because of these issues. To day that they are bad people would not be a correct statement to make because they are great people. The Apostle Paul made the statement it is not I that sins but sin that dwells in me.....Many times this mess builds up over junk from a life time. In case of some people it is 70 or 80 years.....

Arthritis is inflammation in the joints. There are doctors although not widely published that will tell you that heart problems come about because of inflammation. The blockage you see like in the Lipitor ad on TV is actually inflammation and it is a pus pocket. I had one doctor tell me that many times this comes about because of periodontal disease and many other times it is an inflammation from something associated with the stomach. Alzheimer's is an inflammation of the brain as well or some teachings say that it is.

Cancers come about because of a weakened immune system. There are things in the Bible that are referred to as being rottenness to the bones. If you study that out you will find that your immune system is in your bones or the cells of your immune system are manufactured in the bones.

Stressors cause us to stay in a constant Fight/Flight situation. This causes our bodies to create excessive amounts of adrenaline and cortisol. This drives our immune system down and over prolonged periods of times opens up to a wide variety of diseases.

My Grandpa was a devout christian and was the best person I've ever known. He was a good man through and through. Did he deserve such a horrible and embarrasing end? Maybe. Maybe not. Certainly not in my eyes. But, he was very old and lived a long full good life and is no doubt going to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Life is full of many challenges, aches, pains, and sadness. We don't always think it's fair and when something bad happens, we demand to know why. We get angry at God, we condemn ourselves, the list of stupid things we do when things don't go right is never ending.

Why do bad things happen to good people? The answer is D: All of the above.

I certainly mean this with no malice but bad things happen to good people because of sin. 1. Adam's sin, 2. Other people's sin, 3. Their sin. The common denominator is SIN.

I would love to roll with the punches and maybe even duck some of them. It's something that we all must learn to do, and try to give unwavering faith in God. Despite how bad it get's, God knows what he's doing. And somethings are just a result of many variables in life that God hasn't caused, and that doesn't mean he's failed to prevent either. If we could all see the wisdom in why God allows life to run in many ways automitously we'd be very surprised and feel completely stupid.

All these things build character, and help us appreciate the other good things that happen in our lives. I'm certain if we counted the good things all up they'd far outweigh the bad things. We're all like kids in so many ways always asking, "Why, why, why, why, why, why?" when our lego airplane breaks apart or our hamster dies.

Next time you have a flat tire, or a bad day and things aren't going right,,,, don't automatically assume you're being punished or that you somehow deserve it. Somethings just happen.

I will be more than glad to teach you or anybody else interested anything I can on these subjects. I am not interesting in debating every topic for weeks and never getting anywhere intellectually. Much of it will rattle most people's chain doctrinally. It does work powerfully. Normally how ever much a person is willing to work at it is how much benefit they will receive. Basically ALL Sickness goes back to these issues which are when we get to the bottom of them Sin.

 

[aspen]

Religusnut - I skimmed your responses and agree with most of what you said - I am about to leave for a Bible Study on Philippians, but I will read them thoroughly when I get back. I really agree that anxiety is at the root of many of our illnesses and aging. I worked with folks with head injury for years, many of the people received their injuries early in life and practically stopped aging because they were in managed care housing and did not have anywhere near the stress an average adult experiences in our society.

 

[religusnut]

Religusnut - I skimmed your responses and agree with most of what you said - I am about to leave for a Bible Study on Philippians, but I will read them thoroughly when I get back. I really agree that anxiety is at the root of many of our illnesses and aging. I worked with folks with head injury for years, many of the people received their injuries early in life and practically stopped aging because they were in managed care housing and did not have anywhere near the stress an average adult experiences in our society.

Another example of this is fear. When we go into fear our body has something like 1400 different chemical reactions that take place. Many sicknesses that we have like allergies and asthma.... come back to issues of fear.

 

[marksman]

Actually, I have no problem with pain until it hurts.

I am recuperating at the moment after three operations in quick succession to remove cancers. praise God I am free of them.

Of course, whilst I was recovering in hospital and now at home, a lot of thoughts go through your head. The first one that came to me was that I haven't had to endure 39 lashes yet. In other words, there is no need to complain about the pain and suffering.

The next one was that I could sympathise in a more meanigful way with others who have had cancer surgery.

The third one was how wonderful the nurses were who looked after me. It gave me a new appreciation of who they are and what they do. The nurses that visit me daily to change the dressings on the wound are a blessing.

Fourth, whilst I was in hospital, I was able to share the gospel with three trainee doctors.

I have come to the conclusion that indeed " All things work together for good to those that love God.....and I can tell you he is the love of my life

Suffering can be a problem, but it can also be a blessing.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

Another example of this is fear. When we go into fear our body has something like 1400 different chemical reactions that take place. Many sicknesses that we have like allergies and asthma.... come back to issues of fear.

I see what you're saying. I agree with alot of it.

Fear is definately something that destroys the body. I can only speak for American society since I haven't lived anywhere else. I've talked with many people. One thing they all have in common is fear and anxiety. I personally have been living in fear and anxiety my whole life.

Most people are stressed because of work, either from their boss being unreasonable, coworkers not pulling their weight, or even the demand on themselves to perform. This causes problems at home as well. Stress from work causes stress in relationships. It ends up creating fear.

We're afraid we'll lose our job, then our house, then our families. After all this anxiety we stop thinking clearly. On top of not thinking clearly, we don't make wise decisions and make mistakes. This creates more fear and more anxiety.

Add on top of it being a believer. Alot of us are very afraid of God. We have a view of "God the destructor" or "God the punisher". So, as believers when we sin, we stress over it, we lament, and have extreme anxiety. We feel we let God down, we let ourselves down. We feel condemned. Which is more stress. I most certainly have a mental view of God waiting to punish me for every mistake and every choice. However, I know that view is not realistic, and I know where it stems from. So I'm able to work around it so to speak.

Adding all these worries and stresses up, we don't make clear decisions and we feel rushed all the time. This "lack of time" forces us to make poor choices for eating habbits as well.

So, to sum it up, we're all fearfull and unhealthy.

 

[religusnut]

I see what you're saying. I agree with alot of it.

Fear is definately something that destroys the body. I can only speak for American society since I haven't lived anywhere else. I've talked with many people. One thing they all have in common is fear and anxiety. I personally have been living in fear and anxiety my whole life.

Most people are stressed because of work, either from their boss being unreasonable, coworkers not pulling their weight, or even the demand on themselves to perform. This causes problems at home as well. Stress from work causes stress in relationships. It ends up creating fear.

We're afraid we'll lose our job, then our house, then our families. After all this anxiety we stop thinking clearly. On top of not thinking clearly, we don't make wise decisions and make mistakes. This creates more fear and more anxiety.

Add on top of it being a believer. Alot of us are very afraid of God. We have a view of "God the destructor" or "God the punisher". So, as believers when we sin, we stress over it, we lament, and have extreme anxiety. We feel we let God down, we let ourselves down. We feel condemned. Which is more stress. I most certainly have a mental view of God waiting to punish me for every mistake and every choice. However, I know that view is not realistic, and I know where it stems from. So I'm able to work around it so to speak.

God is never the destroyer or the punisher. He sent Jesus to destroy these things which are the works of the enemy. When we have that kind of view of God then we are accusing Him for something that He did not do thus we are in SIN.

Adding all these worries and stresses up, we don't make clear decisions and we feel rushed all the time. This "lack of time" forces us to make poor choices for eating habbits as well.

So, to sum it up, we're all fearfull and unhealthy.

 

[Duckybill]

Job 2:7 (NKJV)
[sup]7 [/sup]So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord, and struck Job with painful boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head.

Acts 10:38 (NKJV)
[sup]38 [/sup]how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

 

[speedyj1992]

The problem of evil in the world is purely a monotheistic problem. All other religions - especially those with dualistic systems have answers to the problem of pain. The reason Christianity struggles with this problem is because we preach a Good God - He is all powerful, ever-present, and all knowing - yet evil still exists. Since a good God cannot remain good if He creates evil - where does it come from? And why does it happen to good people?

Some Christians believe God creates evil - and quote a scripture in Isaiah to back up their claims

Others, claim that good and evil are equal forces

Still others believe that we all deserve much worse than we are getting and should stop whining and start obeying an angry God.

And many believe all three.

The story of evil starts in the Garden - A&E's disobedience and failure to repent ushered in sin, which is the misuse of creation and God's purpose for our lives - the result of sin is evil. Evil is the lack of Good - it is not a force unto itself. We were created to love God and love each other - this was our primary purpose. A&E decided to add determining good and evil to their list of duties - since they were never created to determine good and evil, they were unprepared to take on the responsibility and never needed to since evil never needed to be experienced or even encountered. So, God not only decided to teach us how to love again, He added to our purpose and experience through an added blessing - forgiveness - the highest form of love. He forgave us and is teaching us to receive forgiveness, forgive ourselves, and others.

Therefore, bad things happen to everyone so that we can learn how to forgive and receive forgiveness. The problem of Pain is Forgiveness.

Peace

This is a great question, and one that needs to be addressed on an individual basis because it's so personal. Here's my answer form my own YouTube channel:

Hope this helps to encourage you to go on your own journey in this. Best to you, it's hard, but it's worth pursuing.

 

[bbyrd009]

A&E decided to add determining good and evil to their list of duties

hmm. you seem to postulate here that God was surprised when Eve ate of the tree, and that that was not the plan all along?