The One Baptism

[Marymog]

That is according to YOUR interpretation of His word. For you see Charlie, your faith without works is dead. And since you know Scripture so well you also know that He will render to each one according to his works.

Jesus has already told YOU Charlie ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Why will they go away to eternal punishment Charlie? Because you didn't do the works he TOLD you to do Charlie (Matthew 25:35-40). Soooo it IS for your salvation.

So, whomever lied to you and told you that you don't have to do works to be saved....stay away from them and listen to Him and not them.

You've got to get this right, Mary.

Rom. 4:3-5
"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

Do you see this? Our works are not counted toward Grace, it counts as debt, which means if we count our works as necessary for salvation, the Grace no longer exists.

But to the one who that does not work for salvation, then His faith is counted as Grace.

Salvation must be 100% of God! We cannot count our works as salvation at all! Our works come from the fact we have already been saved by faith.

James said, "show me your faith without your works and I will show you my faith by my works." In other words, James is saying that our works are a result of our salvation. James is NOT saying that faith + works = salvation, that is a huge mistake! It is a mistake that will keep you out of the Kingdom of God!

Faith in Christ is our salvation, without any works at all. When that salvation is sealed by faith, and we receive the Holy Spirit, then the works will come for the right reason, as a result of our faith that gave us salvation.

Making works a requirement for salvation is going to be the ruin of many!
[/QUOTE] I have got it right, Charlie. For you see I believe ALL of Scripture and take all of it into context.

James literally said, "faith without works is dead". That literally means it does not matter how much faith you have for it is DEAD without WORKS. But somehow your men have twisted that into "James is NOT saying that faith + works = salvation". Jesus says that faith + works= salvation and called the people that do those works righteous. What did Jesus say are the works the RIGHTEOUS must do Charlie? What will happen if the RIGHTEOUS don't do the works Charlie? According to Jesus they will go away to everlasting punishment Charlie.

Jesus said, for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’ “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ 44 “Then they also will answer [d]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

That is what Jesus said about good works which, according to what you have been taught by your men, contradicts what Paul wrote in Romans 4. That puts you in a bit of a dilemma Charlie. According to your interpretation of Scripture, Paul is contradicting Jesus. However what Jesus said does not contradict what is written in James 2 (faith without works is dead). So how do we get you out of your dilemma Charlie? We take all of Scripture into context and understand the history of what was being said Charlie.

What you are getting confused is that when Paul wrote Romans, he was not writing them to us today. He was writing to the Gentiles and Jews of the first century. Paul was writing to people two thousand years ago. These were having a Jewish–Gentile debate. To read our current situation back into Asia Minor, Palestine, and Europe of the first century is a classic case of anachronism.

Paul preached that uncircumcised gentiles could be saved without circumcision and a slavish obedience to the 613 laws of Moses–along with all the ceremonial rituals. Some Jewish believers on the other hand said, “Jesus is the Jewish Messiah and if you want to become a Christian you must become a Jew first.” This FACT couldn't be any clearer than in Acts 15:1: “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” They want to impose the “works of the Law” in Romans 3:28 upon the gentiles.

God established His covenant with Abraham in Genesis 17. The sign of the covenant was circumcision. Abraham was justified by faith! But what would have happened if he had refused to obey and cut off his foreskin Charlie? What would his status have been before God then? Would his obedience (good works) or disobedience have entered into the equation? What if Abraham had refused to sacrifice his son? James comes into the picture with a reference to Abraham and seemingly another perspective on Abraham’s righteousness. James thinks Abraham was not justified in Genesis 15 or 17, but much later in Genesis 22, when he offered up Isaac. He states, “Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? (James 2:21 KJV). And then James is bold enough to say, “So you see, a man is justified by his works, and not by faith alone.” (James 2:24).

Charlie, you are like Martin Luther. He didn't like the book of James either because it destroyed what he believed, and he wanted to get rid of the book of James. I don't think you want to get rid of the book of James. But you should understand it in context to the rest of Scripture.

Bible Study Mary

Why Did Luther Reject James?

Why did Martin Luther reject the teachings of the book of James? Can only faith and trust in God's love save a person?

www.biblestudy.org

 

[Charlie24]

You've got to get this right, Mary.

Rom. 4:3-5
"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

Do you see this? Our works are not counted toward Grace, it counts as debt, which means if we count our works as necessary for salvation, the Grace no longer exists.

But to the one who that does not work for salvation, then His faith is counted as Grace.

Salvation must be 100% of God! We cannot count our works as salvation at all! Our works come from the fact we have already been saved by faith.

James said, "show me your faith without your works and I will show you my faith by my works." In other words, James is saying that our works are a result of our salvation. James is NOT saying that faith + works = salvation, that is a huge mistake! It is a mistake that will keep you out of the Kingdom of God!

Faith in Christ is our salvation, without any works at all. When that salvation is sealed by faith, and we receive the Holy Spirit, then the works will come for the right reason, as a result of our faith that gave us salvation.

Making works a requirement for salvation is going to be the ruin of many!

I have got it right, Charlie. For you see I believe ALL of Scripture and take all of it into context.

James literally said, "faith without works is dead". That literally means it does not matter how much faith you have for it is DEAD without WORKS. But somehow your men have twisted that into "James is NOT saying that faith + works = salvation". Jesus says that faith + works= salvation and called the people that do those works righteous. What did Jesus say are the works the RIGHTEOUS must do Charlie? What will happen if the RIGHTEOUS don't do the works Charlie? According to Jesus they will go away to everlasting punishment Charlie.

Jesus said, for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’ “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ 44 “Then they also will answer [d]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

That is what Jesus said about good works which, according to what you have been taught by your men, contradicts what Paul wrote in Romans 4. That puts you in a bit of a dilemma Charlie. According to your interpretation of Scripture, Paul is contradicting Jesus. However what Jesus said does not contradict what is written in James 2 (faith without works is dead). So how do we get you out of your dilemma Charlie? We take all of Scripture into context and understand the history of what was being said Charlie.

What you are getting confused is that when Paul wrote Romans, he was not writing them to us today. He was writing to the Gentiles and Jews of the first century. Paul was writing to people two thousand years ago. These were having a Jewish–Gentile debate. To read our current situation back into Asia Minor, Palestine, and Europe of the first century is a classic case of anachronism.

Paul preached that uncircumcised gentiles could be saved without circumcision and a slavish obedience to the 613 laws of Moses–along with all the ceremonial rituals. Some Jewish believers on the other hand said, “Jesus is the Jewish Messiah and if you want to become a Christian you must become a Jew first.” This FACT couldn't be any clearer than in Acts 15:1: “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” They want to impose the “works of the Law” in Romans 3:28 upon the gentiles.

God established His covenant with Abraham in Genesis 17. The sign of the covenant was circumcision. Abraham was justified by faith! But what would have happened if he had refused to obey and cut off his foreskin Charlie? What would his status have been before God then? Would his obedience (good works) or disobedience have entered into the equation? What if Abraham had refused to sacrifice his son? James comes into the picture with a reference to Abraham and seemingly another perspective on Abraham’s righteousness. James thinks Abraham was not justified in Genesis 15 or 17, but much later in Genesis 22, when he offered up Isaac. He states, “Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? (James 2:21 KJV). And then James is bold enough to say, “So you see, a man is justified by his works, and not by faith alone.” (James 2:24).

Charlie, you are like Martin Luther. He didn't like the book of James either because it destroyed what he believed, and he wanted to get rid of the book of James. I don't think you want to get rid of the book of James. But you should understand it in context to the rest of Scripture.

Bible Study Mary

Why Did Luther Reject James?

Why did Martin Luther reject the teachings of the book of James? Can only faith and trust in God's love save a person?

www.biblestudy.org

[/QUOTE]

Ok Mary! I've tried to show you with no results, so I'll drop it.

James has been explained by many here, including myself, but if you can't see it, then you just can't see it.

 

[Marymog]

@Charlie24 has rejected all the passages from Scripture I have given him that shows he is wrong. I suspect he will reject the passages you referenced also. None the less, thank you!

My works were not for my salvation, they were for my love for Him. "If you love Me, keep my Commandments."
[/QUOTE]
Your men have lied to you Charlie. Your works are for your salvation. ONCE AGAIN, here is the truth from the mouth of Jesus about doing good works and how it effects your salvation if you DON"T do them:

‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ 44 “Then they also will answer [d]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these (that did not do the good works) will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

And then there is this contxt: let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father in heaven.

And this context: For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works,

And this context: He will render to each one according to his works:

I don't expect you to respond to any of that. If you are going to respond to this post, can you just answer this one question: Has He ever commanded you to do good works?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

I have got it right, Charlie. For you see I believe ALL of Scripture and take all of it into context.

James literally said, "faith without works is dead". That literally means it does not matter how much faith you have for it is DEAD without WORKS. But somehow your men have twisted that into "James is NOT saying that faith + works = salvation". Jesus says that faith + works= salvation and called the people that do those works righteous. What did Jesus say are the works the RIGHTEOUS must do Charlie? What will happen if the RIGHTEOUS don't do the works Charlie? According to Jesus they will go away to everlasting punishment Charlie.

Jesus said, for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’ “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ 44 “Then they also will answer [d]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

That is what Jesus said about good works which, according to what you have been taught by your men, contradicts what Paul wrote in Romans 4. That puts you in a bit of a dilemma Charlie. According to your interpretation of Scripture, Paul is contradicting Jesus. However what Jesus said does not contradict what is written in James 2 (faith without works is dead). So how do we get you out of your dilemma Charlie? We take all of Scripture into context and understand the history of what was being said Charlie.

What you are getting confused is that when Paul wrote Romans, he was not writing them to us today. He was writing to the Gentiles and Jews of the first century. Paul was writing to people two thousand years ago. These were having a Jewish–Gentile debate. To read our current situation back into Asia Minor, Palestine, and Europe of the first century is a classic case of anachronism.

Paul preached that uncircumcised gentiles could be saved without circumcision and a slavish obedience to the 613 laws of Moses–along with all the ceremonial rituals. Some Jewish believers on the other hand said, “Jesus is the Jewish Messiah and if you want to become a Christian you must become a Jew first.” This FACT couldn't be any clearer than in Acts 15:1: “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” They want to impose the “works of the Law” in Romans 3:28 upon the gentiles.

God established His covenant with Abraham in Genesis 17. The sign of the covenant was circumcision. Abraham was justified by faith! But what would have happened if he had refused to obey and cut off his foreskin Charlie? What would his status have been before God then? Would his obedience (good works) or disobedience have entered into the equation? What if Abraham had refused to sacrifice his son? James comes into the picture with a reference to Abraham and seemingly another perspective on Abraham’s righteousness. James thinks Abraham was not justified in Genesis 15 or 17, but much later in Genesis 22, when he offered up Isaac. He states, “Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? (James 2:21 KJV). And then James is bold enough to say, “So you see, a man is justified by his works, and not by faith alone.” (James 2:24).

Charlie, you are like Martin Luther. He didn't like the book of James either because it destroyed what he believed, and he wanted to get rid of the book of James. I don't think you want to get rid of the book of James. But you should understand it in context to the rest of Scripture.

Bible Study Mary

Why Did Luther Reject James?

Why did Martin Luther reject the teachings of the book of James? Can only faith and trust in God's love save a person?

www.biblestudy.org

Ok Mary! I've tried to show you with no results, so I'll drop it.

James has been explained by many here, including myself, but if you can't see it, then you just can't see it.
[/QUOTE]
Nope, you have not explained it. You have twisted it.

I have given you the facts from Scripture all the way from Genesis to James. I have put what was written into historical context. You have just given me your opinion. But I appreciate your efforts.

 

[BreadOfLife]

To DO the will of God.
Rom, 10:13 says:
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

HOWEVER – Matt. 7:21 explicitly states:
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY the one who DOES THE WILL of my Father who is in heaven.

As I showed you in my last post – Eph. 2:8, 9 condemns your trying to EARN your salvation. It doesn't condemn works as "unnecessary".
Eph. 2:10 gives the credit for your works to GOD, where it belongs.

IF you faith and trust was truly in CHRIST ONLY then why do you follow pope francis and support him .
We cant support both christ and darkness . YOUR TRUST IN IS the christ men preached not JESUS CHRIST .
PEROID .
[/QUOTE]
In other words - you don't have a valid response for my answer that qw MUSYT DO the will of God in order to be saved (Matt. 7:21).

That's what I thought, my Scrip[turally-Bankrupt friend
Stop running from the Truth . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Anyone who says my trust is in CHRIST ALONE and yet follows false teachers , FAITH IS NOT IN CHRIST ALONE
its in their false teachers . PEROID . RUN from ROME , RUN from the CC . And never look back

The more you run from Christ's Church - the further away you run from HIM . . .
Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

Good luck with that . . .

 

[L.A.M.B.]

It is sad to have your favorite pie in front of you and told to eat all you want, and only the crust is consumed.

What about the ooooey, gooooey parts that make your mouth go mmmmmmmmmm?

This is how sooooo many partake of God and his word. Only consuming certain parts leaves out the overall goodness of the whole.

The word is God's and it is ALL TRUTH. He has given freely that we might receive freely. Do not let something or someone hold you back nor limit you to only one part of his promises!

 

[Marymog]

We interrupt this for a quick reminder . Let no man woman or child enter into covenant with the CC
or with any other place that teaches dangerous doctrines .

Lol....yup, we should listen to amigo de christo and the "truths" he spews forth, then we wouldn't be following dangerous doctrines!! Do you think 2 Peter 3:16 applies to you?

How do you practice Hebrews 13:17?