The One Baptism

[theefaith]

Are you familiar with the Golden Legend?

the golden rule?

 

[theefaith]

@theefaith I read this years ago but couldn’t recall where. As I was thinking about your denial that Jesus is a Jew, the phrase “Jesus is more Jewish than you think he is” came to mind. Googling the phrase, I pulled up the linked newspaper article published by The Times of Israel on November 22, 2017.

Jesus was more Jewish than you think, says Bible prof

cos he was of the tribe of Judah and the house of David the king!

that make Mary queen right?

 

[marks]

Are you familiar with the Golden Legend?

I am now. I wasn't before. Thank you!

Much love!

 

[Matthias]

the golden rule?

I could be mistaken, but I think he was referring to the collection of writings by Jacobus de Voraigne (and later added to by others) on the lives of the saints, Readings of the Saints - better known as Golden Legend.

It would be right up your alley.

 

[Matthias]

cos he was of the tribe of Judah and the house of David the king!

So now you are saying that Jesus is a Jew. Add to that that his religion is Judaism.

that make Mary queen right?

No. His mother is a also a Jew.

 

[theefaith]

I could be mistaken, but I think he was referring to the collection of writings by Jacobus de Voraigne (and later added to by others) on the lives of the saints, Readings of the Saints - better known as Golden Legend.

It would be right up your alley.

its all good

 

[RLT63]

Paul makes the important point that Abraham was a Gentile when he believed God and entered into a covenant with him.

Some do say Abraham was the first Jew, others that Judaism began at Mount Sinai. I’m in the latter group, but I wouldn’t quibble over it.

To say that Moses isn’t a Jew is historically untenable. The same with Jesus.

“Moses the Roman Catholic” and “Jesus the Roman Catholic” are wholly theologically driven assertions. It’s an easily seen bias.

I think I should probably clarify here that a person can be trinitarian without denying history. Trinitarianism is easily located in history. It’s well preserved in the writings of the early Church Fathers.

I tend to believe Jacob (Israel) and his 12 sons were Jewish.

 

[theefaith]

So now you are saying that Jesus is a Jew. Add to that that his religion is Judaism.



No. His mother is a also a Jew.

but the mother of the king in the line of David the king is the queen!

Jesus is of the tribe of Judah yes!
The mosaics covenant yes!

 

[farouk]

I tend to believe Jacob (Israel) and his 12 sons were Jewish.

@RLT63 Wasn't Jacob's name "Israel" ? :)

 

[theefaith]

@RLT63 Wasn't Jacob's name "Israel" ? :)

no they were all Israelites and hebrews but only the tribe of Judah are Jews!

All twelve sons were brothers so that must have the same mother! Correct?

 

[Matthias]

I tend to believe Jacob (Israel) and his 12 sons were Jewish.

Then there were Jews before the giving of the law at Mount Sinai. If that be the case, it’s another stake in the heart of those who say the Jews came only from the tribe of Judah.

 

[Matthias]

but the mother of the king in the line of David the king is the queen!

It’s not a prerequisite of kings that their mothers be queens.

Jesus is of the tribe of Judah yes!

So even by your standard, Jesus is a Jew.

The mosaics covenant yes!

So even by your standard, the tribe of Judah - present at the giving of the law at Mount Sinai - were Jews.

 

[Matthias]

no they were all Israelites and hebrews but only the tribe of Judah are Jews!

See above.

All twelve sons were brothers so that must have the same mother! Correct?

They all had the same father. They didn’t all have the same mother.

P.S.

I’m sorry @farouk. I mistakenly thought theefaith’s post was addressed to me. I wouldn’t have responded to it until after you had if I hadn’t erred.

 

[RLT63]

I could be mistaken, but I think he was referring to the collection of writings by Jacobus de Voraigne (and later added to by others) on the lives of the saints, Readings of the Saints - better known as Golden Legend.

It would be right up your alley.

However, if we study the life of the emperor properly, we will soon get rid of the legends, both the golden legend, and the legend that we may call the Napoleonic black legend. This is the truth: Napoleon was not a God, nor was he a monster

— Arthur Lévy, Napoleon Intime

Thought to be the first use of the black legend.

 

[RLT63]

Then there were Jews before the giving of the law at Mount Sinai. If that be the case, it’s another stake in the heart of those who say the Jews came only from the tribe of Judah.

Joseph had a close relationship with God, as did Jacob.

 

[Matthias]

Joseph had a close relationship with God, as did Jacob.

Yes. So did Noah, to single out someone (a non-Jew) who lived before Abraham.

 

[farouk]

However, if we study the life of the emperor properly, we will soon get rid of the legends, both the golden legend, and the legend that we may call the Napoleonic black legend. This is the truth: Napoleon was not a God, nor was he a monster

— Arthur Lévy, Napoleon Intime

Thought to be the first use of the black legend.

@RLT63

He really responded to the times and circumstances - like the foreign minister Talleyrand who served in that office in successive, rather different regimes - but it would be hard to say that Napoleon's or Talleyrand's focus was really Godward..... (and the Godward perspective is what baptism must be all about).

 

[RLT63]

@RLT63

He really responded to the times and circumstances - like the foreign minister Talleyrand who served in that office in successive, rather different regimes - but it would be hard to say that Napoleon's or Talleyrand's focus was really Godward..... (and the Godward perspective is what baptism must be all about).

I was just showing the first known use of the black legend

 

[RLT63]

Yes. So did Noah, to single out someone (a non-Jew) who lived before Abraham.

True. Enoch too

 

[Matthias]

It's my understanding that Abraham was the first Jew (by covenant) and Stephen gives a pretty good history of his people in Acts 7, just before they stone him.

You might find the linked article interesting - “Was Abraham Jewish? - from a Jewish source.

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2013020/jewish/Was-Abraham-Jewish.htm

I had a polka tune (Lawrence Welk?) running through my mind as I read it. :)

 

[farouk]

I was just showing the first known use of the black legend

That's interesting, @RLT63 ...