The One Baptism

[Nancy]

Thanks Nancy.

Another way to look at this is that at no point, not ever, not once does Scripture correspond water to mean birth water. To insert that interpretation into that vs is creating an entirely new interpretation never heard of BEFORE or SINCE and, as stated previously. i

In summary: There is no historical/scriptural Jewish correlation, the Christian correlation began AFTER the Reformation and .t is completely out of context for the book of John.

I get the gist of what you are saying when you say "no man taught you this". You studied Scripture and you came up with that interpretation. I get it. However, since you are (hu)man then that means that you, a (hu)man, taught yourself this which means a (hu)man did teach you this.

Respectfully, Mary

It's not set in cement with me Mary, I am teachable. It is just where I'm at right now. I have been known to change my beliefs... :)

 

[marks]

Baptism is like the ring in the wedding ceremony. It is a symbol. All believers should be baptized as we are instructed in the Bible and Jesus set the example for us.

When I believed, I counted it my first formal act to demonstrate my belief. It was after my baptism that I counted myself Christian. Yes, I feel just the same about my wedding ring.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

Let's try again

Already provided. This is what you do in many threads; ask for evidence that was JUST provided.

Although I was baptized as an infant in the RCC, I consider it a kind of joke as there is no Biblical support for infant baptism.

 

[RLT63]

Yes, John said He "will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire"! In Scripture fire is equated to the Holy Spirit. They are one in the same. When we are baptized we receive the Holy Spirit.

What I meant by "new" is that this teaching that there is a Holy Spirit baptism ONLY, without water, is not true. It is a new teaching from after the Reformation....best I can tell. There is not one instance in Scripture of baptism of the Holy Spirit only.

In Scripture you never see one without the other. When one is water baptized you receive the Holy Spirit. The story of Cornelus and his companions in Acts 10 is the one time in the New Testament that anyone is described as receiving the Holy Spirit prior to water baptism. This is considered simply an exceptional case. But, as you can see, even in that one exception water and Holy Spirit go hand in hand. Not only in the NT but even in the OT: Water and Spirit Gen 1. Water and Spirit (pillar of fire) when the Israelites go thru the Red Sea in Exodus 14.

John said he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Show me one passage that fulfills that statement.

Pentecostal and Charismatic Churches teach there is a baptism of the Holy Spirit you receive by the laying on of hands of Spirit filled believers. Some teach that the evidence that you have been baptized in the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues. A few even teach you are not saved until you speak in tongues. You are right in scripture the baptism of the Holy Spirit accompanies water baptism except in Acts 2 at Pentecost

 

[theefaith]

Oh, man--I have got to quote you on this!

religion is basically what man owes to God for creating

Oh, man--I have got to quote you on this!

Now religion is evil!

religion is what man owes to God for creating him, to Christ for redemption in his blood, and to the Holy Spirit for sanctifying him in the sacraments of holy church!

James 1:26-27

 

[theefaith]

Catholics are deficient of the Pauline Letters. They honor him at face value only, not knowing anything he taught.

The New Covenant is a mystery to them. The Church keeps this knowledge from them as they have done for centuries.

The Lord can break that barrier, I've seen it done! We have to be patient and helpful. But I admit my patience runs short at times.

Just proof I have not apprehended, as Paul would say.

Paul like all the apostles was catholic

 

[RLT63]

Paul like all the apostles was catholic

LOL

 

[Matthias]

Paul like all the apostles was catholic

Historical context : Paul, like Jesus and all 12 of the original apostles, was Jewish.

 

[ScottA]

religion is basically what man owes to God for creating


Now religion is evil!

religion is what man owes to God for creating him, to Christ for redemption in his blood, and to the Holy Spirit for sanctifying him in the sacraments of holy church!

James 1:26-27

James 1:25-27
If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one’s religion is useless. 27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.
​

Yeah, you should rather do what James said.

​

 

[theefaith]

LOL

Major covenants!

God initiated each covenant and the mediator always remains on earth mediating the covenant except for Christ who made Peter His personal representative and vicar! (Matt 16:18)

Adam
(Marriage covenant)

Noah
(Family covenant)

Abraham
(Tribal covenant)

Moses:
(National covenant)

Jesus Christ:
(Universal covenant)

New and eternal covenant founded by Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18

Universal (Catholic)
World universal

Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal) All men!

Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people. All men!

Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes way the sins of the world. All men!

Jn 3:16 for God so loved the world

1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. All men!

Lk 2: 10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. All men!

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. (All people universal) All men!

1 Tim 2:5 one mediator

Jn 10:16 One new covenant church

Only Jesus Christ has authority to found the church on Peter and the apostles! Matt 16:18-19 Matt 18:18
Jn 20:21 eph 2:20

All others are heretical sects the tradition of men!

Christ is king and established a kingdom!

Obedience to the apostles who have the jurisdictional authority to govern the church and administer the kingdom is obedience to Christ!

Kingdom

Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

the holy Catholic Church

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.


Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Jesus Christ is king!

We must submit and obey the king of kings!

And His authorized ministers that He Himself appointed!

Matt 16:18-19 & 28:28 eph 2:20 Jn 20:21-23

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

 

[theefaith]

Historical context : Paul, like Jesus and all 12 of the original apostles, was Jewish.

Born a Jew but that don’t save you! As JTB said

 

[theefaith]

James 1:25-27
If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one’s religion is useless. 27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.
​

Yeah, you should rather do what James said.

​

I do what Jude and scripture says Jude 1:3 contend for the faith

 

[Matthias]

Born a Jew but that don’t save you! As JTB said

That’s right. Now we have the historical context, which means that we’re now back to the Bible.

 

[ScottA]

I do what Jude and scripture says Jude 1:3 contend for the faith

If you actually did, I wouldn't have to keep quoting and correcting you. Here again:

Jude 1:3
Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
​

If you actually did "contend earnestly for the faith" you would not be passing off, here on this thread, the idea that "our common salvation" includes or requires a bath.

 

[theefaith]

That’s right. Now we have the historical context, which means that we’re now back to the Bible.

but the new covenant is and must be catholic

God initiated each covenant and the mediator always remains on earth mediating the covenant except for Christ who made Peter His personal representative and vicar! (Matt 16:18)

Adam
(Marriage covenant)

Noah
(Family covenant)

Abraham
(Tribal covenant)

Moses:
(National covenant)

Jesus Christ:
(Universal covenant)

New and eternal covenant founded by Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18

Universal (Catholic)
World universal

Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal) All men!

Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people. All men!

Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes way the sins of the world. All men!

Jn 3:16 for God so loved the world

1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. All men!

Lk 2: 10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. All men!

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. (All people universal) All men!

1 Tim 2:5 one mediator

Jn 10:16 One new covenant church

And Roman Catholic cos the church founded by Christ on Peter conquered the Roman Empire to the victor go the spoils

Prophecy of the new covenant and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Daniel 7:18
But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Rev 21: 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

 

[theefaith]

If you actually did, I wouldn't have to keep quoting and correcting you. Here again:

Jude 1:3
Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
​

If you actually did "contend earnestly for the faith" you would not be passing off, here on this thread, the idea that "our common salvation" includes or requires a bath.

no only Christ and scripture say it: Mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved
Jn 3:5 by water and the spirit
Jn 3:22 baptism
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Bath of baptism
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Ez 36:25-27
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

 

[Matthias]

but the new covenant is and must be catholic

God initiated each covenant and the mediator always remains on earth mediating the covenant except for Christ who made Peter His personal representative and vicar! (Matt 16:18)

Adam
(Marriage covenant)

Noah
(Family covenant)

Abraham
(Tribal covenant)

Moses:
(National covenant)

Jesus Christ:
(Universal covenant)

New and eternal covenant founded by Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18

Universal (Catholic)
World universal

Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal) All men!

Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people. All men!

Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes way the sins of the world. All men!

Jn 3:16 for God so loved the world

1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. All men!

Lk 2: 10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. All men!

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. (All people universal) All men!

1 Tim 2:5 one mediator

Jn 10:16 One new covenant church

And Roman Catholic cos the church founded by Christ on Peter conquered the Roman Empire to the victor go the spoils

Prophecy of the new covenant and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Daniel 7:18
But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Rev 21: 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

First, see the constraints of history. Then, see what happens when the constraints of history are ignored.

 

[ScottA]

no only Christ and scripture say it: Mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved
Jn 3:5 by water and the spirit
Jn 3:22 baptism
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Bath of baptism
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Ez 36:25-27
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

You believe these things to be literal or of worldly nature, but do not regard any of them as signs or as only pointing to that which is actually real with God.

Do you also (likewise) believe that the Temple of scripture is only stone, rather than only pointing to that Temple of His body?

 

[theefaith]

First, see the constraints of history. Then, see what happens when the constraints of history are ignored.

Do you disagree with the other covenants too?

 

[Matthias]

Do you disagree with the other covenants too?

The premise of your question is flawed.

Constraint of history: Paul is a Jew.

Constraint of history ignored: Paul is a Roman Catholic. (Or a Muslim. Or a Hindu. Or a …).

Constraint of history: Jesus is a Jew.

Constraint of history ignored: Jesus is a Roman Catholic. (Or a Muslim. Or an Animist. Or a …).

Constraint of history: Moses is a Jew.

Constraint of History ignored: Moses is a Roman Catholic. (Or a Buddhist. Or a Taoist. Or a …).