The One Baptism

[Marymog]

Where did I ever say "by faith alone"?? We are saved by grace THROUGH faith. Water baptism IMHO, is an outward confession and a death and new life. We get baptized after believing, surrendering our lives to Christ. Jesus allowed John to baptize Him as an example to those onlooking...did He need saving??
Lets just leave off here as neither one of us will ever come to agreement and, I don't want to be at odds with anyone.
God bless.

Hey Nancy,

We are saved by grace through faith. But there are many other things that Scripture says we must do to be saved: Repentance (Acts 2:38, 2 Peter 3:9), declaring with our mouths (Luke 12:8, Romans 10:9) etc etc.....I know that you know the other things, so I won't continue.

I get the gist of your opinion when you say that water baptism is an outward confession. But Scripture makes it clear that it is more than just that. It brings the Holy Spirit upon you and washes away your sin. Water baptism....for a lack of better words....kills the old self and gives us a new life in Him. Water baptism is NECESSARY to achieve all those things AND we must do what He and the Apostles told us to do! Therefore, it is a REQUIREMENT to get water baptized.

Mary

 

[Wrangler]

Another way to look at this is that at no point, not ever, not once does Scripture correspond water to mean birth water.

Mary, that is not a POV but a conclusion coming from left field. It stands to reason that being born of water IS natural birth in the context of then being born of Spirit. Also, to deny our original birth was related to water begs the question what then is the reference for us to be born again?

It seems to me that Scripture ONLY refers to birth through water when not talking about coming alive spiritually. Honestly, I do not understand the basis to deny the association with water to normal birth. I guess that is mysticism for you.

 

[Marymog]

Is it actually respectful to deny that Nancy is taught by the Holy Spirit?

Much love!

Where did she say that the Holy Spirit taught her that? I don't see it in her post. She said "it came to me years back" and YOU are inserting Holy Spirit into that. ;)

Riddle me this marks: If Nancy, a (hu)man, was taught by the Holy Spirit that the water in John 3:5 means birth water then does that make every other (hu)man that disagrees with her wrong?

Curious Mary

 

[theefaith]

All who call upon the Name of the LORD shall be saved. It seems the requirement is rather simple.

Much love!

so are you saved the first moment you believe?

 

[Marymog]

Are you saying that Not all who call upon the Name of the LORD shall be saved?

That passage is true, actually, all who call upon the Name of the LORD shall in fact be saved. God simplifies. Man complicates. God rules. Man wants to rule.

Much love!

Nope, not saying that marks. It's not complicated marks. I am only saying what Scripture says. Calling upon the name of the Lord is ONE of the MANY things Scripture says that we must do to be saved:

1. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. – Romans 10:13

2. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. – Ephesians 2:8-10

3. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. – John 3:16

4. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. – John 3:5

5. And Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself. – Acts 2:38-39

6. And they said, Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household. – Acts 16:31

7. Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring you to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which he also went and preached to the spirits in prison, who before were disobedient, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ship was being built. In it, few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

This is a symbol of baptism, which now saves you-not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, angels and authorities and powers being made subject to him. – 1 Peter 3:18-22

8. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. – Romans 6:23

9. Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

10. What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. ...You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

11. He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Mary

 

[marks]

so are you saved the first moment you believe?

What does this Scripture say?

Is it true that all who call upon the Name of the LORD shall be saved?

Much love!

 

[Marymog]

Mary, that is not a POV but a conclusion coming from left field. It stands to reason that being born of water IS natural birth in the context of then being born of Spirit. Also, to deny our original birth was related to water begs the question what then is the reference for us to be born again?

It seems to me that Scripture ONLY refers to birth through water when not talking about coming alive spiritually. Honestly, I do not understand the basis to deny the association with water to normal birth. I guess that is mysticism for you.

Ummmm....OK. Soooooo quote from Scripture where Scripture corresponds water to mean birth water and I will accept your POV.

riddle me this Wrangler: The POV that the water in John 3:5 meant birth water is a POV that is only about 500 years old. That POV was created AFTER the reformation (according to my studies). Why did the Holy Spirt take 1,500 years to reveal to man this new interpreation that water in John 3:5 to mean birth water?

Curious Mary

 

[Wrangler]

What does this Scripture say?

Is it true that all who call upon the Name of the LORD shall be saved?

Much love!

Including JW, right?

 

[Wrangler]

Ummmm....OK. Soooooo quote from Scripture where Scripture corresponds water to mean birth water and I will accept your POV.

I already did. So did Nancy.

riddle me this Wrangler: The POV that the water in John 3:5 meant birth water is a POV that is only about 500 years old. That POV was created AFTER the reformation (according to my studies).

That corresponds to the invention of the printing press, when people were finally able to read God's words for themselves. That's when they realized the load of man-made doctrines the RCC was pushing, like the mystical sacraments. Listen to me well. These are among my favorite verses to dispel the role of mysticsim in the Bible.

Mark 7:13 And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.
2 Cor 1:13 (VOICE) We are not writing to you in anything resembling codes or riddles.​

 

[Marymog]

I already did. So did Nancy.

Ummmm....OK. This is a fun game we are playing. Being coy!!

We have already established that you have been taught that the water in John 3:5 refers to amniotic fluid.

Are there any other passages from Scripture that connect water to amniotic fluid? Or is it the one and only time that the OT and NT connects the two?

Mary

 

[theefaith]

Where did I ever say "by faith alone"?? We are saved by grace THROUGH faith. Water baptism IMHO, is an outward confession and a death and new life. We get baptized after believing, surrendering our lives to Christ. Jesus allowed John to baptize Him as an example to those onlooking...did He need saving??
Lets just leave off here as neither one of us will ever come to agreement and, I don't want to be at odds with anyone.
God bless.

then baptism is meaningless!
Not part of salvation as Mk 16:16 or justification or the initiation into the kingdom Jn 3:5 without baptism you cannot enter the new covenant


A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)


A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!



Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!


Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 2:1&5 brought to life in baptism
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!




“Faith alone”

Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

Faith alone” unbiblical!

WATER AND THE SPIRIT!
Baptismal regeneration is the biblical mandate!!!

 

[Charlie24]

OK, it's time to wrap this up! It may be a long post, but it all needs to be said together. I will explain with the ability the Lord has given me, which is not saying much, for the Lord has little to work with in me.

In explaining what is involved in the faith of our salvation, Paul told us In Eph. 4 there is one body, one spirit, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one Father. Some say this one baptism is water baptism, and some say this is the spiritual baptism taking place in the heart of man at the moment of salvation. So let's go to the Scripture and find out.

At Pentecost in Acts 2 the Holy Spirit came in a new dimension, the Scripture says, in a new and living way. The apostles and those with them were filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues. This is when the Holy Spirit came to dwell in man permanently by the promise of Christ.

John 14:15-20
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Notice the bold. Jesus said, "I will come unto you." He said He would pray and the Father would sent the Comforter (the Holy Spirit) to abide with us forever, and then He said "I will come unto you."

Then He said, "you are in me, and I in you." It's obvious Christ is not speaking of physically coming and being in us, but spiritually. So we see here that not only is the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, but Christ is also dwelling in us.

Paul said in Galatians 2:20, I am crucified with Christ, never the less I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me. So we see that both the Holy Spirit and Christ take residence in the heart and spirit of the believer.

Do you remember Jeremiah saying that the day would come when the Lord would circumcise the heart of man? The circumcision of the foreskin of man would turn to the circumcision of the heart. This is the regeneration of man to salvation. It is Christ coming into the heart of man and living in him, which was hidden from us in the Old Testament, but revealed by Paul in the New Testament.

Look closely at what Paul says in Col. 2:10-13.

10 "And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"

The words of Jeremiah were fulfilled in Christ! We are circumcised "through the faith of the operation of God."

In vs. 12, "buried with Him in baptism" does this sound familiar?

Rom. 6:3-5

3 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"


The "baptism into Christ" is revealed to us through Paul to be what Jeremiah prophesied so long ago as the "circumcision of the heart." It is the spiritual baptism of regeneration that takes place in the heart of man at the moment of salvation.

This is the "One Baptism" that Paul speaks of that is concerning our faith and salvation.

So what is the purpose of water baptism? Peter explained that in 1 Peter 3:21. Water baptism is the "like figure" the symbol of our spiritual baptism. The expression of our inward baptism that took place in the heart at conversion.

@Marymog, do you understand this? Is there anything I can explain for you to better understand?

 

[Charlie24]

@Marymog, do you understand this? Is there anything I can explain for you to better understand?

I know these things are hard for a Catholic to understand, Catholicism is not this type thinking.

But if the truth is important to you, there must be a change in thinking of the literal here and now, and into the spiritual things that we must understand in finding the truth of Scripture.

I will help you to understand these things!

 

[Wrangler]

We have already established that you have been taught that the water in John 3:5 refers to amniotic fluid.

Are you aware that some people can read? This includes non-Catholics.

I love how the Bible is a very figurative book. ‘Born of water’ or ‘not eyes to see’ or ‘as many descendants as grains of sand’ or ‘we are one’ are all non-literal expressions.

Make a Blessed Day!

 

[Marymog]

Are you aware that some people can read? This includes non-Catholics.

I love how the Bible is a very figurative book. ‘Born of water’ or ‘not eyes to see’ or ‘as many descendants as grains of sand’ or ‘we are one’ are all non-literal expressions.

Make a Blessed Day!

You crack me up wrangler.....I am very aware some people can read. Reading Scripture does not equate to understanding Scripture.

Not only are you coy but you like to dodge questions. Let's try again: Are there any other passages from Scripture that connect water to amniotic fluid? Or is it the one and only time that the OT and NT connects the two?

The reason you couldn't and didn't answer the question is because you have ZERO Scriptural evidence to back up what your men have taught you OR you have taught yourself. The entire amniotic fluid teaching is pulled from whole cloth. A complete fabrication that has never been taught by the Jews and never taught by Christianity until around the 16th century.

 

[Marymog]

@Marymog, do you understand this? Is there anything I can explain for you to better understand?

Yes, I do understand your interpretation of Scripture. Thank you for taking the time to spell it all out.

Mary

 

[Charlie24]

Yes, I do understand your interpretation of Scripture. Thank you for taking the time to spell it all out.

Mary

But does it make a difference in the way you formerly viewed water baptism?

 

[Marymog]

I know these things are hard for a Catholic to understand, Catholicism is not this type thinking.

But if the truth is important to you, there must be a change in thinking of the literal here and now, and into the spiritual things that we must understand in finding the truth of Scripture.

I will help you to understand these things!

The first thing you can do to "help" is to stop being so condescending. I just lost a lot of respect for you with this condesending post.

The 2nd thing you can do is explain to me how YOU know the truth, but the men of the Catholic Church don't know the truth? Were you guided by the Holy Spirit into this truth?

Mary

 

[Charlie24]

The first thing you can do to "help" is to stop being so condescending. I just lost a lot of respect for you with this condesending post.

The 2nd thing you can do is explain to me how YOU know the truth, but the men of the Catholic Church don't know the truth? Were you guided by the Holy Spirit into this truth?

Mary

Maybe we can look at it another time. Sorry to have offended you!

 

[Marymog]

But does it make a difference in the way you formerly viewed water baptism?

Yes, it makes a difference. I now see how others view water baptism.

You said that "Some say this one baptism is water baptism, and some say this is the spiritual baptism..".

Just to be clear: MOST Christian churches teach that water baptism IS the One Baptism and then there are SOME that teach it is spiritual baptism. You fall into the camp of "some".

The spiritual baptism teaching is a new teaching not heard of by Christianity until recently. So why did God hide this "truth" from us for so long?

Mary