The One Baptism

[Marymog]

Ok, to show you that Paul is speaking of any works we may credit toward salvation, look at what he says of Abraham who lived his life before the Law was given to Moses.

Rom. 4:1-4
"What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt."


Do you see here that Paul once again is telling us that works will cancel out Grace? Works can have nothing to do with our salvation, if it does, then that faith is made void.

Paul is saying that if we claim any works for our salvation, it is no longer Grace, but our salvation is by debt, meaning God owes us salvation. I think you know that God owes us nothing, so salvation has to be by Grace, and Grace alone.

source

OK, if it is the good works of the Catholics that they enter into heaven, then let the Catholic stand on that foundation when they meet Christ.

I will stand on my faith alone in Christ for my salvation, with my works a gift to Christ.[/QUOTE]
First off, Scripture NOR The Catholic Church teaches that we are saved by ONLY good works. So you can delete that lie from your brain.

Second off, in a previous post you said we are saved by Grace alone. Now you say faith alone. Which one is it?

Third off, our works are not a gift to Christ. Our works (good deeds) are a gift to those that receive them no matter if they be atheist, Christian, Jew or agnostic. Our works are ONE of the things that saves us. Like Scripture says our faith, without works, is dead!

Fourth off, our works are what Jesus said they are, not what YOU think they are: for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ ....... ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.’

And what did Jesus tell you will happen to you if you don't do those works Charlie?

Charlie will go away into eternal punishment.

What did Jesus say happens to those that do those good works Charlie? They will go into eternal life.

So you can continue to misinterpret Paul's words, or you can listen to the clear words of Jesus. Your choice. Your soul.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

@RLT63 What the Bible believing Christians has is 'the faith once delivered to the saints' (Jude), which is revealed in Scripture, rather than a hierarchical line of men.

Ummmm....There was a "hierarchical line of men". The Apostles were over everyone else....everyone under them were not their equeals. The Apostles appointed "elders" to lead various churches. The members of those churches were not of the same heirachy as the appointed elders or Apostles. Scripture mentions bishops, priests etc and we are to obey those that are our elders of which who are in charge of our souls.

None the less....thank you for your opinion. ;)

 

[Illuminator]

OK, if it is the good works of the Catholics that they enter into heaven, then let the Catholic stand on that foundation when they meet Christ.

Straw man fallacy. Jesus Christ is the foundation, not good works.

I will stand on my faith alone in Christ for my salvation,

So do we.

with my works a gift to Christ.

No, the "gift" is the grace of Christ that He gave you to do good works in the first place. "Grace alone", remember?

Isaiah says our works are as filthy rags. Isaiah 64:6

Isaiah 64:6 doesn't say that. It means our self-righteousness mixed with iniquities that are as filthy rags.

 

[BreadOfLife]

It's more than just saying the right words and mentally believing.

Define "Faith" as YOU understand it, Biblically.

Does it include -
- Obedience? (Matt. 7:21)
- Surrender? (Matt. 16:24-25)
- Love? (1 Cor. 13:1-13, Gal. 5:6)

Okay well we have a difference of opinion.

Yes, we do.
But, the reason I came down on you was the falsehoods you were peddling – OT the difference of opinion . . .

 

[RLT63]

Define "Faith" as YOU understand it, Biblically.

Does it include -
- Obedience? (Matt. 7:21)
- Surrender? (Matt. 16:24-25)
- Love? (1 Cor. 13:1-13, Gal. 5:6)

Yes, we do.
But, the reason I came down on you was the falsehoods you were peddling – OT the difference of opinion . . .

Go back and look at your own posts.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Go back and look at your own posts.

Why? I’m asking YOU what YOUR definition of “Faith” is.
I’ve CLEARLY defined it in my posts.

AAs usual – you’re copping out because you have NO idea what “Faith” is.

 

[RLT63]

Why? I’m asking YOU what YOUR definition of “Faith” is.
I’ve CLEARLY defined it in my posts.

AAs usual – you’re copping out because you have NO idea what “Faith” is.

No, I just don't care to engage anymore with someone who makes everything personal.
Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[BreadOfLife]

OK, if it is the good works of the Catholics that they enter into heaven, then let the Catholic stand on that foundation when they meet Christ.

I will stand on my faith alone in Christ for my salvation, with my works a gift to Christ.

WRONG.

Your works are NOT a gift TO Christ. They are a gift FROM God:
Eph. 2:10
For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

YOU don’t create your good works – GOD does. We complete them as an essential element of faith – NOT as a result of it.

Faith is NOT just “believing”. Even the DEMONS believe (James 2:19) – but they aren’t saved. Faith requires our cooperation and our obedience.

It’s not Faith PLUS Works.
Belief, surrender, love and works are ALL part of Faith.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, I just don't care to engage anymore with someone who makes everything personal.
Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I asked for YOUR explanation of “Faith” based on Scripture.
You gave me a direct quote from Heb. 11:1.

Cop-out noted.

 

[Charlie24]

OK, if it is the good works of the Catholics that they enter into heaven, then let the Catholic stand on that foundation when they meet Christ.

I will stand on my faith alone in Christ for my salvation, with my works a gift to Christ.

First off, Scripture NOR The Catholic Church teaches that we are saved by ONLY good works. So you can delete that lie from your brain.

Second off, in a previous post you said we are saved by Grace alone. Now you say faith alone. Which one is it?

Third off, our works are not a gift to Christ. Our works (good deeds) are a gift to those that receive them no matter if they be atheist, Christian, Jew or agnostic. Our works are ONE of the things that saves us. Like Scripture says our faith, without works, is dead!

Fourth off, our works are what Jesus said they are, not what YOU think they are: for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ ....... ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.’

And what did Jesus tell you will happen to you if you don't do those works Charlie?

Charlie will go away into eternal punishment.

What did Jesus say happens to those that do those good works Charlie? They will go into eternal life.

So you can continue to misinterpret Paul's words, or you can listen to the clear words of Jesus. Your choice. Your soul.

Mary[/QUOTE]

1500 years and counting. I'll leave you Catholic folk alone now.

 

[Charlie24]

WRONG.

Your works are NOT a gift TO Christ. They are a gift FROM God:
Eph. 2:10
For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

YOU don’t create your good works – GOD does. We complete them as an essential element of faith – NOT as a result of it.

Faith is NOT just “believing”. Even the DEMONS believe (James 2:19) – but they aren’t saved. Faith requires our cooperation and our obedience.

It’s not Faith PLUS Works.
Belief, surrender, love and works are ALL part of Faith.

OK! Said all I wanted to say. I can let it go now.

 

[RLT63]

I asked for YOUR explanation of “Faith” based on Scripture.
You gave me a direct quote from Heb. 11:1.

Cop-out noted.

You don't take the scripture's definition of Faith?

 

[BreadOfLife]

You don't take the scripture's definition of Faith?

It’s a rudimentary definition – not a comprehensive one.

YOU want to declare that Faith is simply “believing” by quoting verses out of context that indicate “belief” in Christ means salvation. Verses like Matt. 5:31-42, Luke 9:23, 1 Cor. 13:1-13 and Gal. 5:6 prove that true faith REQUIRES our cooperation through love, obedience and surrender.
Yet, when I expose your misunderstanding by quoting James 2:19, which shows that even the demons “believe” – YOU say that I am “judging” you and that I don’t understand what you believe.

You’ve been beating around the bush for DAYS on this topic and are afraid to make a commitment because I’ve exposed you on every point. So, ONE more time:

Does faith require ANY of the following:
- Obedience? (Matt. 7:21)
- Surrender? (Matt. 16:24-25)
- Love? (1 Cor. 13:1-13, Gal. 5:6)

OR –
NONE of the above?

 

[BreadOfLife]

OK! Said all I wanted to say. I can let it go now.

As long as you know that what you said is heresy . . .

 

[RLT63]

It’s a rudimentary definition – not a comprehensive one.

YOU want to declare that Faith is simply “believing” by quoting verses out of context that indicate “belief” in Christ means salvation. Verses like Matt. 5:31-42, Luke 9:23, 1 Cor. 13:1-13 and Gal. 5:6 prove that true faith REQUIRES our cooperation through love, obedience and surrender.
Yet, when I expose your misunderstanding by quoting James 2:19, which shows that even the demons “believe” – YOU say that I am “judging” you and that I don’t understand what you believe.

You’ve been beating around the bush for DAYS on this topic and are afraid to make a commitment because I’ve exposed you on every point. So, ONE more time:

Does faith require ANY of the following:
- Obedience? (Matt. 7:21)
- Surrender? (Matt. 16:24-25)
- Love? (1 Cor. 13:1-13, Gal. 5:6)

OR –
NONE of the above?

This is not the inquisition and I'm not on trial.

 

[Illuminator]

This is not the inquisition and I'm not on trial.

It's not the Protestant Inquisition either.

 

[Illuminator]

What distinguished the Catholic reformers of the 16th century from the Protestants was their method. The Protestants thought that they had a way of knowing the doctrines and practices of the Apostolic Church without recourse to the Church's magisterium, which they believed was discredited.

Their recourse was to literary analysis. It is part of the Protestant tradition to suspend judgment on doctrine until the individual is satisfied that he can find it in the Scriptures, for "the whole counsel of God, concerning all things necessary for his own glory, man's salvation, faith and life is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture" (WCF 1:6).

No religious teacher, not even the Church, deserves credence unless he teaches what the reader, enlightened by the Spirit, finds in the Scriptures. The believer therefore must set for himself that this or that doctrine is true. Before he accepts it, he weighs the doctrine in the balance of his own understanding of the Scriptures.
This is just the reverse of the Catholic's approach to belief. As the Catholic sees it, he must accept God on God's terms and not his own, which means to accept it from the hands of God's authorized teacher. It is not for him to "judge" the divine message but only to receive it. The basic difference between Catholic and non-Catholic approach to religious truth is that the non-Catholic constructs it, while the Catholic receives it so that no construction is called for or even in place of.

The popes propose their message not only in the light of the totality of revelation, but also with arguments intelligible to a non-religious man. The Catholic Church not only believes that its doctrine is revealed, but it also believes that such doctrine is reasonable.

Hence it is that the Church teaching always present reasons for it positions. These reasons are not given for the ultimate motive of assent but there is a firm conviction that reasons illuminate the revelation and that reason confirms and bolsters the tenets of faith. Hence reasons are not given to prove individual teachings as they are for Evangelical Protestants, but only to elucidate individual teachings accepted by Catholic faith.

 

[RLT63]

It's not the Protestant Inquisition either.

Have I demanded your definition of any term?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Before we explain the One Baptism, let's familiarize with the word "Baptism" as found throughout the Scripture.

First, one must realize that the word "Baptism" is not always referring to water! A clear example of this is found in Matt. 3:11 from John the Baptist.

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"

John makes a clear distinction of water baptism, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Second, there are two words used for "Baptism" in the Greek. they are, "baptizo" and "baptizma," the first is used as a verb, the second is used as a noun. A clear example of this is found in Matt. 3:5-7,

"5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,

6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?"

In vs. 6, in the bold is "baptizo" the verb, the act of being baptized.

In vs. 7, in the bold is "baptisma" is the noun, the baptism as a thing.

The word "Baptism" is used in Scripture as including the "spiritual baptism" and the "water baptism." There is no reference to separate these baptisms. The only distinction is the use of a verb or a noun. Do you understand this?

It is imperative that you understand the only way to discern between the spiritual and water baptisms found in Scripture is by the context of the Scripture!

Here lies the entire problem of the word "Baptism" as we read it in Scripture! Simply put, some are not making that distinction between the spiritual and water baptisms.

This is what I intend to explore, but I can't in one post, as you can see! So what I will do is give you time to let this sink in, (for the sake of the dreaded long posts) and then come back tomorrow and resume this long road with many intersections!

The one baptism in Ephesians 4:5 is water baptism and not Spirit baptism. Why?

Well, it cannot be Spirit baptism because there are several different spiritual baptisms done by God that are salvific.

Baptisms God does upon us after we have received God’s grace through faith:
(According to His Word):

#1. The Holy Spirit baptizes us into Jesus Christ and the church at salvation “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body...” (1 Corinthians 12:13). The head of the body is Jesus Christ (Colossians 1:18).

#2. Jesus baptizes us into the Holy Ghost, “he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost..” (Matthew 3:11). This is the downpayment of our inheritance (Ephesians 1:14).

#3. Jesus baptizes us with fire over the whole course of our life (i.e. Jesus tests our faith, and refines us to live a holy life) (Matthew 3:11). I see this as a part of the Sanctification Process over the course of our lives as believers to live a holy life and or as different testings of our faith by the Lord to refine us and to purge the branch to bring forth more fruit. As the silversmith uses fire to purge the dross from the precious metal, so the Lord seeks to remove sin from a believer’s life (Psalms 66:10; Proverbs 17:3). His fire cleanses and refines. 1 Peter 1:7 says, “That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:”

To check out more fully my study on the different baptisms, see here:

The Doctrine of Baptisms

The Doctrine of Baptisms: (Hebrews 6:2) Baptisms God does upon us after we have received God’s grace through faith: (According to His Word): #1. The Holy Spirit baptizes us into Jesus Christ and the church at salvation “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body...” (1 Corinthians...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Charlie24]

The one baptism in Ephesians 4:5 is water baptism and not Spirit baptism. Why?

Well, it cannot be Spirit baptism because there are several different spiritual baptisms done by God that are salvific.

Baptisms God does upon us after we have received God’s grace through faith:
(According to His Word):

#1. The Holy Spirit baptizes us into Jesus Christ and the church at salvation “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body...” (1 Corinthians 12:13). The head of the body is Jesus Christ (Colossians 1:18).

#2. Jesus baptizes us into the Holy Ghost, “he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost..” (Matthew 3:11). This is the downpayment of our inheritance (Ephesians 1:14).

#3. Jesus baptizes us with fire over the whole course of our life (i.e. Jesus tests our faith, and refines us to live a holy life) (Matthew 3:11). I see this as a part of the Sanctification Process over the course of our lives as believers to live a holy life and or as different testings of our faith by the Lord to refine us and to purge the branch to bring forth more fruit. As the silversmith uses fire to purge the dross from the precious metal, so the Lord seeks to remove sin from a believer’s life (Psalms 66:10; Proverbs 17:3). His fire cleanses and refines. 1 Peter 1:7 says, “That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:”

To check out more fully my study on the different baptisms, see here:

The Doctrine of Baptisms

The Doctrine of Baptisms: (Hebrews 6:2) Baptisms God does upon us after we have received God’s grace through faith: (According to His Word): #1. The Holy Spirit baptizes us into Jesus Christ and the church at salvation “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body...” (1 Corinthians...

www.christianityboard.com

No, I have to disagree!

Col. 2:10-12
"And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."


Right here Paul tells us that "buried with Him in baptism" is the circumcision without hands/the operation of Christ.

This is the circumcision that Jeremiah spoke of, that Paul spoke of in Rom. 6:3-5.

It is our spiritual salvation, what takes place inside the moment we believe, in which water baptism symbolizes.