The NT manuscripts are full of mistakes
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Judah's Captivity Symbolized
Eze 12:1 And there is a word of Jehovah unto me, saying,
Eze 12:2 'Son of man, in the midst of the rebellious house thou art dwelling, that have eyes to see, and they have not seen; ears they have to hear, and they have not heard; for a rebellious house are they.
Eze 12:3 And thou, son of man, make to thee vessels of removal, and remove by day before their eyes, and thou hast removed from thy place unto another place before their eyes, it may be they consider, for a rebellious house they are .
Eze 12:4 And thou hast brought forth thy vessels as vessels of removal by day before their eyes, and thou, thou dost go forth at even before their eyes, as the goings forth of a removal.
Eze 12:5 Before their eyes dig for thee through the wall, and thou hast brought forth by it.
Eze 12:6 Before their eyes on the shoulder thou dost bear, in the darkness thou dost bring forth, thy face thou dost cover, and thou dost not see the earth, for a type I have given thee to the house of Israel.'
Eze 12:7 And I do so, as I have been commanded; my vessels I have brought forth as vessels of removal by day, and at even I have dug for me through the wall with the hand; in the darkness I have brought forth, on the shoulder I have borne away, before their eyes.
Eze 12:8 And there is a word of Jehovah unto me, in the morning, saying,
Eze 12:9 'Son of man, have they not said unto thee—the house of Israel—the rebellious house—What art thou doing?
Eze 12:10 say unto them, Thus said the Lord Jehovah: 'The prince is this burden in Jerusalem, and all the house of Israel who are in their midst.
Eze 12:11 Say: I am your type; as I have done so it is done to them, into a removal, into a captivity, they do go.
Eze 12:12 As to the prince who is in their midst, on the shoulder he beareth in the darkness, and he goeth forth, through the wall they dig to bring forth by it, his face he covereth, that he may not look on the very surface of the land.
Eze 12:13 And I have spread My net for him, and he hath been caught in My snare, and I have brought him in to Babylon, the land of the Chaldeans, and it he doth not see—and there doth he die.
Eze 12:14 'And all who are round about him to help him, and all his bands, I do scatter to every wind, and a sword I draw out after them.
Eze 12:15 And they have known that I am Jehovah, in My scattering them among nations, and I have spread them through lands;
Eze 12:16 and I have left of them, a few in number, from the sword, from the famine, and from the pestilence, so that they recount all their abominations among the nations whither they have come, and they have known that I am Jehovah.'
Eze 12:17 And there is a word of Jehovah unto me, saying,
Eze 12:18 'Son of man, thy bread in haste thou dost eat, and thy water with trembling and with fear thou dost drink;
Eze 12:19 and thou hast said unto the people of the land, Thus said the Lord Jehovah concerning the inhabitants of Jerusalem, concerning the land of Israel: Their bread with fear they do eat, and their water with astonishment drink, because its land is desolate, because of its fulness, because of the violence of all who are dwelling in it.
Eze 12:20 And the cities that are inhabited are laid waste, and the land is a desolation, and ye have known that I am Jehovah.'
Eze 12:21 And there is a word of Jehovah unto me, saying,
Eze 12:22 'Son of man, what is this simile to you, concerning the land of Israel, saying, Prolonged are the days, and perished hath every vision?
Eze 12:23 therefore say unto them: Thus said the Lord Jehovah: I have caused this simile to cease, And they use it not as a simile again in Israel, But speak to them: Drawn near have the days, And spoken hath every vision.
Eze 12:24 For there is no more any vain vision, and flattering divination, In the midst of the house of Israel.
Eze 12:25 For I am Jehovah, I speak, The word that I speak—it is done, It is not prolonged any more, For, in your days, O rebellious house, I speak a word, and I have done it, An affirmation of the Lord Jehovah.'
Eze 12:26 And there is a word of Jehovah unto me, saying:
Eze 12:27 'Son of man, lo, the house of Israel are saying, The vision that he is seeing is for many days, and of times far off he is prophesying,
Eze 12:28 therefore say unto them: Thus said the Lord Jehovah: None of my words are prolonged any more, When I speak a word—it is done, An affirmation of the Lord Jehovah!'
J.
Why quote a verse that clearly is to YisraEl?
What stands written in the New Covenant AND the Pauline epistles re this question?
J.
It’s a universal principal that applies to all peoples.
Rebellious people no matter what flavor they are have eyes but can not see and ears that can not hear.
No they haven’t replaced Israel. Israel never has been nor ever will be Gods chosen people.
The church has always been Gods chosen people from Adam to present.
Chosen People:
In the Hebrew Scriptures, Israel is frequently referred to as God's chosen people. For example, in Deuteronomy 7:6, it states, "For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth."
This theme continues throughout the Old Testament, emphasizing God's covenant relationship with Israel.
Covenantal Promises:
The covenants made with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and later with the nation of Israel are foundational in the biblical narrative. These covenants affirm God's enduring commitment to Israel as His people.
New Testament Perspective:
Expansion of God's People:
In the New Testament, the understanding of "God's chosen people" expands to include Gentiles through faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 11, Galatians 3:28). Paul speaks of a remnant of Israel, indicating that God's promises remain relevant to both Jews and Gentiles.
Ongoing Significance:
Many Christians believe that while the church is now seen as the body of Christ and included in God's promises, Israel still holds a unique role in God’s plan, particularly concerning eschatology and future promises.
Theological Views:
Replacement Theology vs. Dispensationalism:
Some theological perspectives, such as Replacement Theology, argue that the church has replaced Israel as God's chosen people. In contrast, Dispensationalism maintains that God still has a distinct plan for Israel.
YOUR statement can be seen as incorrect from a traditional biblical standpoint, as Israel is consistently depicted as God's chosen people throughout Scripture.
But now you are wasting my time @IndianaRob since you have no clue what you are talking about.
J.
I interpret it considering Exodus 19:5 which tells you exactly who Gods chosen people are.
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
He's ignorant-
Deuteronomy 7:6
Verse: "For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth."
Explanation: This verse clearly establishes Israel’s unique status as God’s chosen people, highlighting both holiness and selection.
2. Exodus 19:5-6
Verse: "Now therefore, if you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine; and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation."
Explanation: Here, Israel is described as a "treasured possession," emphasizing their special role in mediating God's presence to the nations.
3. Psalm 135:4
Verse: "For the LORD has chosen Jacob for himself, Israel as his own possession."
Explanation: This psalm reiterates God's choice of Israel, underscoring their significance in His divine plan.
4. Zechariah 2:8
Verse: "For thus says the LORD of hosts: After his glory sent me to the nations who plundered you, for he who touches you touches the apple of his eye."
Explanation: This verse reflects Israel's preciousness to God, indicating that harm to Israel is viewed as harm to God's own cherished possession.
5. Deuteronomy 14:2
Verse: "For you are a people holy to the LORD your God, and the LORD has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth."
Explanation: Similar to Deuteronomy 7:6, this verse emphasizes holiness and God's choice, reinforcing the idea of Israel as uniquely set apart.
6. Jeremiah 31:1
Verse: "At that time, declares the LORD, I will be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be my people."
Explanation: This reflects God's commitment to Israel and His desire for a covenant relationship, indicating their status as His people.
7. Isaiah 43:1-4
Verse: "But now thus says the LORD, he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: 'Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are mine.'"
Explanation: This passage emphasizes God's personal relationship with Israel, affirming their value in His eyes.
8. 1 Peter 2:9
Verse: "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light."
Explanation: While this is addressed to the church, it draws on the Old Testament language about Israel, suggesting continuity in God's plan for a people set apart for His purposes.
9. Malachi 3:17
Verse: "They shall be mine, says the LORD of hosts, in the day when I make up my treasured possession, and I will spare them as a man spares his son who serves him."
Explanation: This emphasizes the future vindication and protection of Israel as God's treasured possession.
10. Romans 11:1-2
Verse: "I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew."
Explanation: Paul affirms that God has not rejected Israel, highlighting their ongoing significance in God’s plan.
Shalom.
J.
בְּרִית נֹחַ (B'rit Noach) – The Noahic Covenant (Genesis 9): This covenant is made with all of humanity through Noah, but it's foundational for Israel as it guarantees the stability of creation after the Flood. God promises never to destroy the earth by flood again and establishes the rainbow as a sign of this covenant.
בְּרִית אַבְרָהָם (B'rit Avraham) – The Abrahamic Covenant (Genesis 12, 15, 17): This is a foundational covenant with the patriarch Abraham, in which God promises to make him a great nation, bless him, and give his descendants the land of Canaan. This covenant also includes the sign of מִילָה (circumcision, Milah).
בְּרִית סִינַי (B'rit Sinai) – The Sinaitic/Mosaic Covenant (Exodus 19–24): Also known as the Covenant of the Law, this covenant is given to Israel at Mount Sinai through Moses. It involves the giving of the Torah, the Ten Commandments, and the establishment of Israel as a holy nation if they obey God's laws.
בְּרִית כֹּהֲנִים (B'rit Kohanim) – The Priestly Covenant (Numbers 25:10–13): This covenant is made with פִּינְחָס (Phinehas), Aaron’s grandson, establishing an everlasting priesthood for his descendants. It is a reward for Phinehas’ zeal in defending God’s honor.
בְּרִית דָּוִד (B'rit David) – The Davidic Covenant (2 Samuel 7, 1 Chronicles 17): God promises King David that his descendants would reign on the throne of Israel forever. This covenant establishes the expectation of the Messiah, who would come from the line of David.
בְּרִית חֲדָשָׁה (B'rit Chadasha) – The New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31–34): This is the promise of a new covenant, where God will write His law on the hearts of His people and will forgive their sins, in contrast to the previous covenants that were broken by Israel. This covenant is often interpreted in Christian theology as being fulfilled in Christ.
Each of these covenants marks a significant development in God's relationship with Israel, forming the backbone of the biblical narrative of redemption.
Keep up the good work brother.
J.
Yeah but which one? The answer is the same covenant that God’s people have always been under. The covenant God made with Abraham which the old covenant would not disannul.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Stephen’s Speech and Abraham's Land Promise
Stephen, in Acts 7:5, affirms that Abraham did not receive any inheritance in the land, not even a foot of it, while God had promised it to him and his descendants:
"And He gave him no inheritance in it, not even enough to set his foot on. But even when Abraham had no child, He promised to give it to him for a possession, and to his descendants after him." (Acts 7:5 NKJV)
This reflects the tension between the promise and the fulfillment. The Hebrew Scriptures clarify that Abraham lived in the land as a foreigner:
Genesis 17:8 says:
וְנָתַתִּי לְךָ וּלְזַרְעֲךָ אַחֲרֶיךָ אֵת אֶרֶץ מְגֻרֶיךָ אֵת כָּל־אֶרֶץ כְּנָעַן לַאֲחֻזַּת עוֹלָם וְהָיִיתִי לָהֶם לֵאלֹהִים
("And I will give to you and to your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.")
Here, the term used for "everlasting possession" is אֲחֻזַּת עוֹלָם (achuzzat olam). While "עוֹלָם" (olam) is often translated as "forever," its meaning can also refer to an indefinite period that extends beyond the foreseeable future but not necessarily an unending span of time.
The Nature of "Forever" (עוֹלָם)
The Hebrew term עוֹלָם can be more nuanced than simply "forever" in the absolute sense. It often means a long, indefinite period of time, particularly one where the end is not clearly visible or known. We see this understanding in various places:
Exodus 21:6 (in reference to the servant who chooses to stay with his master):
וַעֲבָדוֹ לְעֹלָם (ve-avad-o le-olam) – "He will serve him for ever (עוֹלָם)," but this obviously means for the duration of his lifetime, not literally forever.
Psalm 73:12 speaks of the prosperity of the wicked:
לָבַטַח עוֹלָם (la-vatach olam), "secure forever," but we know this is temporal as well.
Thus, your understanding that the word can refer to a period "beyond their ability to comprehend" is accurate. In the case of the promise of the Land of Canaan, while it is described as an everlasting inheritance, this doesn't preclude conditional aspects, as God’s warnings in Deuteronomy and later Scriptures show.
God’s Warnings About the Land
The covenantal relationship between God and Israel was conditioned on obedience. While God promises the land, there are also warnings if Israel does not remain faithful:
Leviticus 26:33:
וְאֶתְכֶם אֲזָרֶה בַּגּוֹיִם וַהֲרִיקֹתִי אַחֲרֵיכֶם חָרֶב
("And I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you; your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.")
2 Chronicles 7:19-20 repeats this, warning that if Israel turns from God:
וַאֲשַׁלֵּחֲךָ מֵעַל פָּנַי וַאֲתֵּן לָהֶם אֶרֶץ זָבַת חָלָב וּדְבַשׁ
("I will uproot them from My land which I have given them.")
This shows that although the land was an everlasting possession, its enjoyment was contingent upon Israel’s covenant faithfulness.
Regathering and Restoration
Regarding regathering, many passages prophesy that God will bring Israel back from exile, but this too is framed with a theological purpose rather than simply political restoration:
Jeremiah 24:6-7 emphasizes not just return to the land, but a spiritual restoration:
וְנָתַתִּי לָהֶם לֵב לָדַעַת אֹתִי כִּי־אֲנִי ה'
("I will give them a heart to know Me, that I am the Lord... and they shall return to Me with their whole heart.")
Ezekiel 36:24-28 speaks not just of physical return, but also the cleansing and renewal of the people:
וְנָתַתִּי לָכֶם לֵב חָדָשׁ וְרוּחַ חֲדָשָׁה אֶתֵּן בְּקִרְבְּכֶם
("I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you.")
God’s Promised Restoration in Christ
Isaiah 49:6 speaks of God’s servant being a light to the Gentiles:
וּנְתַתִּיךָ לְאוֹר גּוֹיִם לִהְיוֹת יְשׁוּעָתִי עַד־קְצֵה הָאָרֶץ
("I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles, that You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.")
John 4:23 introduces the spiritual aspect of worship in Christ’s kingdom:
וְהָעוֹבְדִים יַעַבְדוּ בְרוּחַ וֶאֱמֶת
("The true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth.")
In conclusion, while the land promises are clear and tied to Israel’s history, they also have a spiritual dimension that transcends mere geography. God’s ultimate goal is not just restoring a nation to a specific land, but drawing people into a covenantal relationship with Himself, fulfilled through the Messiah.
This balance between physical promises and spiritual fulfillment captures the heart of God’s plan, as Israel’s role as His people is fulfilled not only in physical inheritance but through the promise of the New Covenant found in Christ.
My apologies for the late response, but you probably would not agree @Jay Ross.
J.
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