The NT manuscripts are full of mistakes

[Jay Ross]

Are you referring to the LXX and as far as I can tell we have no original manuscripts, but copies of copies.

Well, yes that are many contextual errors in the LXX as well. The Promised Land described in Gen 13 and 15 was supposedly a forever covenantal promise, however, when did the possession of the full extent of the described land occur and how many years later was it taken off of Israel such that they were only left with the Land of Canaan?

Let me ask you a clarifying question for my own good. When you suggest that the NT manuscripts are not full of mistakes, how does that relate to the 400,000 to 500,000 variants among all the Greek manuscripts?

It all depends, whether the collective variants vary contextually.

I’m sure you understand the originals are long gone, all that’s left are copies of copies which may or may not be inspired.

Yes, you are right, but it all depends on whether the collective copies convey the same context in their pages.

Sadly, the misconceptions that the Israelites have held have also found their way into our translations today.

Shalom

 

[IndianaRob]

I have found that I need to dig deeper than the KJV, and indeed than any English translation, to see where they found their base. I'll give you an example:

Gen. 2:2a in the Masoretic Text – which was followed by the KJV -- states that God completed His work on the seventh day, while the Peshitta, the Samaritan Pentateuch and the LXX has Him completing work on the sixth day. Whether these earlier sources substituted “sixth” in order to resolve the obvious problem of God completing his work on the day of rest; or whether their sources originally had “seventh” as in the MT and it was the translator who made the obvious change from “seventh” to “sixth,” we cannot tell. But to blindly accept the Masoretic Text (and thus the KJV) on this verse without considering these other sources just strikes me as silly. The MT and the KJV have nothing to commend their translation in the face of these other more ancient sources.

This type of thing is true with literally hundreds of verses. I urge you to read the Bruce Metzger article that I posted earlier today.

I think the masoretic and the LXX are saying the same thing but in different ways.

If I fast for six days when did I end my fast, the sixth day or the seventh day?

I ended it on the sixth day but I fasted on the sixth day too so technically I ended my fast on the seventh day.

 

[Johann]

Well, yes that are many contextual errors in the LXX as well. The Promised Land described in Gen 13 and 15 was supposedly a forever covenantal promise, however, when did the possession of the full extent of the described land occur and how many years later was it taken off of Israel such that they were only left with the Land of Canaan?

Some background as I'm sure you are familiar with.

The Promise of the Land in Genesis 13 and 15:
Genesis 13:14-17 (Lexham Translation):
"Yahweh said to Abram... 'Lift up your eyes and see from the place where you are—northward and southward and eastward and westward, for all the land that you see I will give to you and to your descendants forever... Arise, go through the length and breadth of the land, for I will give it to you.'”

Here, God promises Abraham and his descendants an expansive inheritance of land.

Genesis 15:18-21 (Lexham Translation):
"On that day Yahweh made a covenant with Abram, saying, 'To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates: the land of the Kenites, the Kenizzites, the Kadmonites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.'”

God defines the land boundaries, stretching from the river of Egypt (likely the Wadi el-Arish) to the Euphrates. This vast territory is larger than just Canaan, encompassing parts of modern-day Egypt, Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, and Iraq.

2. Fulfillment of the Promise:
The promise of land to Israel can be examined in stages:

Initial Fulfillment: Under Joshua’s leadership, after the Exodus from Egypt, Israel began to take possession of Canaan (Joshua 21:43-45). This was seen as a fulfillment of the promise in part, but not fully extending to the boundaries described in Genesis 15.

Peak Expansion: During the reign of King David and King Solomon (around 1000 BC), Israel controlled the largest portion of the Promised Land. In 1 Kings 4:21 (Lexham Translation), it says:
"Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the River (Euphrates) to the land of the Philistines and to the border of Egypt."
This suggests that the promise was most fully realized under Solomon, when Israel had influence over many regions within the Promised Land's full boundary.

3. Loss of the Land:
Despite achieving territorial dominance under David and Solomon, Israel’s control over the land did not last. Due to disobedience to God's covenant, Israel experienced judgment and exile.

Northern Kingdom: The Assyrian conquest in 722 BC resulted in the loss of the northern tribes' land (2 Kings 17:6-23). This was a result of their covenantal disobedience, as outlined in Deuteronomy 28—failure to keep the law meant they would lose their land.

Southern Kingdom (Judah): In 586 BC, the Babylonian Exile occurred when the Babylonians captured Judah and destroyed Jerusalem, further reducing Israel’s territory to just a remnant (2 Kings 25:1-21). By this point, Israel had lost not only the full extent of the Promised Land but also much of their ancestral homeland, reduced primarily to Canaan.

4. Why Was the Land Taken Away?
The Abrahamic Covenant (Genesis 15) was unconditional in terms of the land being given to Abraham’s descendants. However, the later Mosaic Covenant (given through Moses) was conditional, and Israel's possession of the land was tied to obedience. Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28 make clear that if Israel obeyed God’s commandments, they would live securely in the land; if not, they would be exiled.

Deuteronomy 28:63-64 (Lexham Translation): "And just as Yahweh delighted over you to make you prosperous and to multiply you, so Yahweh will delight over you to exterminate you and to destroy you, and you will be plucked off the land that you are going to possess. And Yahweh will scatter you among all the peoples from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth."


When did Israel possess the full extent of the land?
Israel’s greatest territorial extent occurred under Solomon’s reign around 1000 BC, when they controlled land from the River of Egypt to the Euphrates River (1 Kings 4:21). This was likely the closest fulfillment of the Genesis 15 promise.

When was the land taken away?
Israel gradually lost control over the Promised Land due to disobedience. The Northern Kingdom lost its territory in 722 BC to the Assyrians, and the Southern Kingdom was exiled to Babylon in 586 BC.

Left with Canaan: Following the Babylonian exile, Israel was primarily left with the region of Canaan upon their return, never fully regaining the boundaries of the original promise. Even under Persian, Greek, and Roman rule, Israel remained largely confined to the land of Canaan.

In sum, the full possession of the Promised Land was fleeting, and disobedience led to Israel's gradual loss of the land. The theological emphasis is that the Abrahamic Covenant assured the land, but the Mosaic Covenant made Israel’s continued residence contingent on obedience, which they failed to uphold.

Shalom.
J.

 

[MA2444]

I think the masoretic and the LXX are saying the same thing but in different ways.

If I fast for six days when did I end my fast, the sixth day or the seventh day?

I ended it on the sixth day but I fasted on the sixth day too so technically I ended my fast on the seventh day.

Mankind made it the day starts at dawn (or midnite) but that was totally a commercial decision I think. In Genesis it was and the evening and the morning were the first day, etc. So when I fast I fast from sundown to sundown as one day. So we really only fast and not fast on the same day is just man's system injected into it. I wait until sundown when I end a fast. (and to start it).

 

[KUWN]

You are really too far "left"

The Large Number of Variants:
Scholars estimate that there are between 400,000 and 500,000 textual variants among the 5,800+ existing Greek New Testament manuscripts. This number might seem alarming at first, but it must be viewed in the context of:

The sheer number of manuscripts we have. The NT is the most widely copied and preserved document from antiquity.
Many variants are insignificant, such as differences in spelling, word order, or grammatical nuances that don't affect meaning.
The Nature of Variants:
The vast majority of these textual variants are inconsequential:

Spelling Differences: Some variants involve changes in spelling that don’t affect the meaning of the text.

Word Order: Greek is a highly inflected language, meaning the word order can change without altering the meaning of a sentence. Many variants involve different word orders that don’t affect interpretation.

Synonyms or Minor Phrasing: Other variants involve synonyms or slight variations in phrasing that don’t change the core meaning of the passage.
Only a small percentage of the variants (less than 1%) have any significant effect on meaning, and even fewer affect theological doctrines. Importantly, no core Christian doctrine is based on a questionable text.


The large number of variants is a result of the huge number of manuscripts we have—far more than any other ancient text. If we only had a few manuscripts, there would be fewer variants, but we'd also have much less confidence in the accuracy of the text. The abundance of manuscripts allows scholars to compare them and get very close to the original wording.

Textual Criticism:
The discipline of textual criticism allows scholars to evaluate the variants by comparing manuscripts and understanding which readings are more likely original. This method has been highly successful in reconstructing the NT text with great confidence. While there are some passages where uncertainty remains (e.g., the ending of Mark 16 or the story of the woman caught in adultery in John 7:53–8:11), these are well-known and usually marked in modern Bible translations.


While the number of variants may seem overwhelming, it doesn’t imply that the NT is full of mistakes or unreliable. The overwhelming majority of these differences are trivial, and the massive number of manuscripts actually enhances our ability to accurately reconstruct the original text. Thus, the integrity of the New Testament remains strong despite the existence of textual variants.

Core doctrines still intact, thank you very much and to all those who would want to object.
J.

Well said J.

 

[IndianaRob]

Some background as I'm sure you are familiar with.

The Promise of the Land in Genesis 13 and 15:
Genesis 13:14-17 (Lexham Translation):
"Yahweh said to Abram... 'Lift up your eyes and see from the place where you are—northward and southward and eastward and westward, for all the land that you see I will give to you and to your descendants forever... Arise, go through the length and breadth of the land, for I will give it to you.'”

Here, God promises Abraham and his descendants an expansive inheritance of land.

Genesis 15:18-21 (Lexham Translation):
"On that day Yahweh made a covenant with Abram, saying, 'To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates: the land of the Kenites, the Kenizzites, the Kadmonites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.'”

God defines the land boundaries, stretching from the river of Egypt (likely the Wadi el-Arish) to the Euphrates. This vast territory is larger than just Canaan, encompassing parts of modern-day Egypt, Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, and Iraq.

2. Fulfillment of the Promise:
The promise of land to Israel can be examined in stages:

Initial Fulfillment: Under Joshua’s leadership, after the Exodus from Egypt, Israel began to take possession of Canaan (Joshua 21:43-45). This was seen as a fulfillment of the promise in part, but not fully extending to the boundaries described in Genesis 15.

Peak Expansion: During the reign of King David and King Solomon (around 1000 BC), Israel controlled the largest portion of the Promised Land. In 1 Kings 4:21 (Lexham Translation), it says:
"Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the River (Euphrates) to the land of the Philistines and to the border of Egypt."
This suggests that the promise was most fully realized under Solomon, when Israel had influence over many regions within the Promised Land's full boundary.

3. Loss of the Land:
Despite achieving territorial dominance under David and Solomon, Israel’s control over the land did not last. Due to disobedience to God's covenant, Israel experienced judgment and exile.

Northern Kingdom: The Assyrian conquest in 722 BC resulted in the loss of the northern tribes' land (2 Kings 17:6-23). This was a result of their covenantal disobedience, as outlined in Deuteronomy 28—failure to keep the law meant they would lose their land.

Southern Kingdom (Judah): In 586 BC, the Babylonian Exile occurred when the Babylonians captured Judah and destroyed Jerusalem, further reducing Israel’s territory to just a remnant (2 Kings 25:1-21). By this point, Israel had lost not only the full extent of the Promised Land but also much of their ancestral homeland, reduced primarily to Canaan.

4. Why Was the Land Taken Away?
The Abrahamic Covenant (Genesis 15) was unconditional in terms of the land being given to Abraham’s descendants. However, the later Mosaic Covenant (given through Moses) was conditional, and Israel's possession of the land was tied to obedience. Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28 make clear that if Israel obeyed God’s commandments, they would live securely in the land; if not, they would be exiled.

Deuteronomy 28:63-64 (Lexham Translation): "And just as Yahweh delighted over you to make you prosperous and to multiply you, so Yahweh will delight over you to exterminate you and to destroy you, and you will be plucked off the land that you are going to possess. And Yahweh will scatter you among all the peoples from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth."


When did Israel possess the full extent of the land?
Israel’s greatest territorial extent occurred under Solomon’s reign around 1000 BC, when they controlled land from the River of Egypt to the Euphrates River (1 Kings 4:21). This was likely the closest fulfillment of the Genesis 15 promise.

When was the land taken away?
Israel gradually lost control over the Promised Land due to disobedience. The Northern Kingdom lost its territory in 722 BC to the Assyrians, and the Southern Kingdom was exiled to Babylon in 586 BC.

Left with Canaan: Following the Babylonian exile, Israel was primarily left with the region of Canaan upon their return, never fully regaining the boundaries of the original promise. Even under Persian, Greek, and Roman rule, Israel remained largely confined to the land of Canaan.

In sum, the full possession of the Promised Land was fleeting, and disobedience led to Israel's gradual loss of the land. The theological emphasis is that the Abrahamic Covenant assured the land, but the Mosaic Covenant made Israel’s continued residence contingent on obedience, which they failed to uphold.

Shalom.
J.

The promised land story provides a perfect example of why I read the KJV rather than trying to figure out what this word means or that word means.

By just reading the text and not getting bogged down in finding deeper meaning a word I’m able to catch nuances in the stories and that’s were the real message of the Bible is.

In the promise land story the children of Israel that believed the account of the TEN (represents the law or works) couldn’t enter the promised land.

Those who believed the account of the TWO (grace) were able to enter the promised land.

Also, none of the FIRST BORN (represents the flesh) in the wilderness were allowed to enter the promised land.

The SECOND generation (born again) were allowed in the promised land.

 

[IndianaRob]

If you guys will notice, none of what I just illustrated is written in the text yet the principles are hidden there in the text.

This is what Jesus was talking about when he said:

Jhn 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

This is where the truths of Gods word are hidden.

 

[Behold]

I have found that I need to dig deeper than the KJV,

Lets find out if that is true.

Simply explain..... why/how Jesus Keeps you saved, no matter what.. after you are born again.

Just explain that... @RedFan

 

[Johann]

Well said J.

Shalom Achi.
J.

 

[IndianaRob]

See if you can find the law leading the believer to Christ in this passage.

Gen 24:1 And Abraham was old, and well stricken in age: and the LORD had blessed Abraham in all things.

Gen 24:2 And Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house, that ruled over all that he had, Put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh:

Gen 24:3 And I will make thee swear by the LORD, the God of heaven, and the God of the earth, that thou shalt not take a wife unto my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I dwell:

Gen 24:4 But thou shalt go unto my country, and to my kindred, and take a wife unto my son Isaac.

Gen 24:5 And the servant said unto him, Peradventure the woman will not be willing to follow me unto this land: must I needs bring thy son again unto the land from whence thou camest?

Gen 24:6 And Abraham said unto him, Beware thou that thou bring not my son thither again.

Gen 24:7 The LORD God of heaven, which took me from my father's house, and from the land of my kindred, and which spake unto me, and that sware unto me, saying, Unto thy seed will I give this land; he shall send his angel before thee, and thou shalt take a wife unto my son from thence.

Gen 24:8 And if the woman will not be willing to follow thee, then thou shalt be clear from this my oath: only bring not my son thither again.

Gen 24:9 And the servant put his hand under the thigh of Abraham his master, and sware to him concerning that matter.

Gen 24:10 And the servant took ten camels of the camels of his master, and departed; for all the goods of his master were in his hand: and he arose, and went to Mesopotamia, unto the city of Nahor.

Gen 24:11 And he made his camels to kneel down without the city by a well of water at the time of the evening, even the time that women go out to draw water.

Gen 24:12 And he said, O LORD God of my master Abraham, I pray thee, send me good speed this day, and shew kindness unto my master Abraham.

Gen 24:13 Behold, I stand here by the well of water; and the daughters of the men of the city come out to draw water:

Gen 24:14 And let it come to pass, that the damsel to whom I shall say, Let down thy pitcher, I pray thee, that I may drink; and she shall say, Drink, and I will give thy camels drink also: let the same be she that thou hast appointed for thy servant Isaac; and thereby shall I know that thou hast shewed kindness unto my master.

 

[Johann]

If you guys will notice, none of what I just illustrated is written in the text yet the principles are hidden there in the text.

This is what Jesus was talking about when he said:

Jhn 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

This is where the truths of Gods word are hidden.

Who were the recipients of this isolated verse?
In John 8:43, where Jesus says, "Why do you not understand my speech? Even because you cannot hear my word," the recipients of this statement are primarily the Jewish religious leaders, including the Pharisees and possibly other members of the audience present during His teaching.

Context and Recipients:
Setting:
This verse is part of a larger dialogue that occurs during the Feast of Tabernacles in Jerusalem (John 7:2). Jesus is addressing a crowd that includes both His followers and skeptics, particularly those who oppose Him.

The Audience:
The primary audience includes:

Pharisees: A prominent Jewish sect known for strict adherence to the law and traditions. They often challenged Jesus and His authority.
Jews: This term broadly refers to the people of Israel present, many of whom were curious about Jesus’ teachings, while others were antagonistic toward Him.

Content of the Dialogue:
In the preceding verses, Jesus discusses themes of truth, freedom, and His relationship to the Father. He challenges the religious leaders about their spiritual blindness and inability to accept His message. He emphasizes that His teachings are rooted in divine truth, which they are rejecting.

Spiritual Blindness:
The phrase "you cannot hear my word" indicates a deeper spiritual condition. Jesus is highlighting their inability to understand not merely because of a lack of intelligence or literacy, but due to their hardened hearts and willful rejection of His message. This aligns with themes found earlier in John, such as in John 10:26, where He tells them, "But you do not believe because you are not among my sheep."

Theological Implication:
This statement reflects the broader theological theme in the Gospel of John regarding the tension between light and darkness, truth and falsehood. The inability to hear His word shows the necessity of spiritual openness to receive and understand the truth of Jesus’ identity and mission.

In summary, John 8:43 is directed towards the Jewish religious leaders and skeptics who are engaged in a contentious dialogue with Jesus. The verse encapsulates their spiritual blindness and resistance to His message, emphasizing the need for a receptive heart to understand and accept divine truth.

Context-right?
J.

 

[IndianaRob]

Who were the recipients of this isolated verse?
In John 8:43, where Jesus says, "Why do you not understand my speech? Even because you cannot hear my word," the recipients of this statement are primarily the Jewish religious leaders, including the Pharisees and possibly other members of the audience present during His teaching.

Context and Recipients:
Setting:
This verse is part of a larger dialogue that occurs during the Feast of Tabernacles in Jerusalem (John 7:2). Jesus is addressing a crowd that includes both His followers and skeptics, particularly those who oppose Him.

The Audience:
The primary audience includes:

Pharisees: A prominent Jewish sect known for strict adherence to the law and traditions. They often challenged Jesus and His authority.
Jews: This term broadly refers to the people of Israel present, many of whom were curious about Jesus’ teachings, while others were antagonistic toward Him.

Content of the Dialogue:
In the preceding verses, Jesus discusses themes of truth, freedom, and His relationship to the Father. He challenges the religious leaders about their spiritual blindness and inability to accept His message. He emphasizes that His teachings are rooted in divine truth, which they are rejecting.

Spiritual Blindness:
The phrase "you cannot hear my word" indicates a deeper spiritual condition. Jesus is highlighting their inability to understand not merely because of a lack of intelligence or literacy, but due to their hardened hearts and willful rejection of His message. This aligns with themes found earlier in John, such as in John 10:26, where He tells them, "But you do not believe because you are not among my sheep."

Theological Implication:
This statement reflects the broader theological theme in the Gospel of John regarding the tension between light and darkness, truth and falsehood. The inability to hear His word shows the necessity of spiritual openness to receive and understand the truth of Jesus’ identity and mission.

In summary, John 8:43 is directed towards the Jewish religious leaders and skeptics who are engaged in a contentious dialogue with Jesus. The verse encapsulates their spiritual blindness and resistance to His message, emphasizing the need for a receptive heart to understand and accept divine truth.

Context-right?
J.

Yes. If a person is not born again they cannot hear “his word”. This also ties into this verse.

Ezk 12:2 Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house.

 

[Behold]

Yes. If a person is not born again they cannot hear “his word”.

The "things of God" include the BIBLE, and the Spirit of God.

1 Corin 2:14 explains the issue ......

 

[RedFan]

Lets find out if that is true.

Simply explain..... why/how Jesus Keeps you saved, no matter what.. after you are born again.

Just explain that... @RedFan

Just because one is "born" again doesn't mean salvation is assured. John 3:3 portrays being born again as a necessary condition to salvation, not a sufficient one. (This is much the same issue one sees in distinguishing being justified from being sanctified.)

 

[Johann]

Yes. If a person is not born again they cannot hear “his word”. This also ties into this verse.

Ezk 12:2 Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house.

Who are the recipients in this verse @IndianaRob?

Good to quote one verse theology-another to rightly divide the Scriptures and context-correct?
J.

 

[Behold]

Just because one is "born" again doesn't mean salvation is assured. John 3:3 portrays being born again as a necessary condition to salvation, not a sufficient one.

Actually you just proved that you dont understand the Blood Atonement, or what it means to have become "in Christ".

I didnt think you were familiar with what transpired on The Cross of Christ.


You stated "assurance of Salvation" yet, you are clueless regarding what it means to have become Joined to God, Spiritually.

See, when you have faith in Christ, then you are in possession of faith in Christ who is The Savior......and His Salvation is not part time, nor does it require your trying to stay saved by whatever means you believe you have to commit to, that prove that you have no actual trust in Christ.

See, unless you believe that Jesus keeps you saved, then your faith in Christ, is broken, or it never existed to begin with @RedFan .

Here is the first thing you have to learn about Salvation.

1.) JESUS is Salvation.

Not you, not your works or self effort., not your repenting, not your law keeping or your commandment keeping, and not your water baptism.


See, once you understand that Jesus is SALVATION< then that eliminates doubt that is caused by not understanding that Jesus is Salvation.

 

[RedFan]

I think the masoretic and the LXX are saying the same thing but in different ways.

If I fast for six days when did I end my fast, the sixth day or the seventh day?

I ended it on the sixth day but I fasted on the sixth day too so technically I ended my fast on the seventh day.

I'd say you ended your fast by midnight on the sixth day. But that's if you fasted for ONLY six days. Did your fast last 145 hours, or 144? Each is consistent with fasting for six days. I cannot tell whether or not you snacked after midnight in the sixth.

I understand your point, but resting on the seventh day does not preclude having done some work on the seventh day. So there is an ambiguity in the MT and the KJV that was eliminated in the MUCH older LXX.

 

[RedFan]

Actually you just proved that you dont understand the Blood Atonement, or what it means to have become "in Christ".

Actually, all I "proved" was that I don't agree with YOUR understanding of what these things mean.

 

[Jay Ross]

Genesis 13:14-17 (Lexham Translation):
"Yahweh said to Abram... 'Lift up your eyes and see from the place where you are—northward and southward and eastward and westward, for all the land that you see I will give to you and to your descendants forever... Arise, go through the length and breadth of the land, for I will give it to you.'”

My understanding of the Hebrew text is very different to how this verse has been translated. Stephen before he was stoned stated, without rebuke from those listening to his speech, that Abraham had not been given any part of the "Promised Land" even to rest the soles of his feet upon.

I was making a point, and it seems that you have not understood the point I was making. The Jewish population believe that the Promised Land was a "forever" promise whereas the Hebrew word translated a forever has the meaning of aa period of time where the vanishing point of when the time period will end was beyond their ability to comprehend.

Yes, I agree with you that the "Promise Land" was started to be acquired around the time that the Jordan river was crossed and 500 or so years later this possession was taken from them.

In Gen 17, there is another land promise that God would give the Israelites the Land of Canaan as a possession for them but in 2 Chronicles 7 God also warned Israel that he would drive Israel out of the land of Canaan as well if they continued their idolatrous worship and would scatter them across the whole face of the earth. He also did not promise Israel that when He will begin gathering them to Himself in around 20 years' time, He would not bring them back to the Land of Canaan but rather that he would plant them in His Fertile field to draw nourishment from Him and that He would teach them on the Theology of the religion of Christ, where they are scattered throughout the whole earth.

Now even while the scriptures that we revere are lacking, they are still the best source we have today of connecting with God and His prophetic utterances.

However, we need to be able to seek out God and know His purposes that will surround us as the end days draw towards their conclusion.

Shalom

 

[Johann]

My understanding of the Hebrew text is very different to how this verse has been translated. Stephen before he was stoned stated, without rebuke from those listening to his speech, that Abraham had not been given any part of the "Promised Land" even to rest the soles of his feet upon.

I was making a point, and it seems that you have not understood the point I was making. The Jewish population believe that the Promised Land was a "forever" promise whereas the Hebrew word translated a forever has the meaning of aa period of time where the vanishing point of when the time period will end was beyond their ability to comprehend.

Yes, I agree with you that the "Promise Land" was started to be acquired around the time that the Jordan river was crossed and 500 or so years later this possession was taken from them.

In Gen 17, there is another land promise that God would give the Israelites the Land of Canaan as a possession for them but in 2 Chronicles 7 God also warned Israel that he would drive Israel out of the land of Canaan as well if they continued their idolatrous worship and would scatter them across the whole face of the earth. He also did not promise Israel that when He will begin gathering them to Himself in around 20 years' time, He would not bring them back to the Land of Canaan but rather that he would plant them in His Fertile field to draw nourishment from Him and that He would teach them on the Theology of the religion of Christ, where they are scattered throughout the whole earth.

Now even while the scriptures that we revere are lacking, they are still the best source we have today of connecting with God and His prophetic utterances.

However, we need to be able to seek out God and know His purposes that will surround us as the end days draw towards their conclusion.

Shalom

Shalom Achi.
J.