The Mother is the origin of the harlots

[Phoneman777]

And SO the name written on the woman’s forehead does not make her the Mother either.

I see now what you are saying, but it's a False Equivalence. You're equating apples and oranges, namely "apostate leadership" with "faithful followers".

When you compare leadership with leadership, a different picture emerges:

The Leader of the Christian church is inscribed with "KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS".
The whore leader of the papal apostasy is inscribed with "Mystery, Babylon the Great, Mother of harlots".

So your point mute.

You can't mute the trute, friend.

 

[Phoneman777]

name written on the woman’s forehead does not make her the Mother either.

Also, the "seal" aka "mark" of God written on our foreheads identifies us with God.

The "mark" written on the forehead of those who follow the Beast aka Whore of Babylon identifies them, too.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

You can't mute the trute, friend.

The truth is, those who are of the world are of the Mother who produces harlot daughters by the spirit of their father the Devil.

Those who are born from above are of the Spirit of God, these are not of this world.

1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

 

[Phoneman777]

The truth is, those who are of the world are of the Mother who produces harlot daughters by the spirit of their father the Devil.

Not exactly. A "woman" in prophecy symbolizes a "church". The "Whore" is the papacy, the false Christian church.

Those who are of the world are lost...those who are of the Whore are commanded to "come out of her, My people" and that not only includes papists, but "protestants" who follow papal doctrines.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Not exactly. A "woman" in prophecy symbolizes a "church". The "Whore" is the papacy, the false Christian church.

Those who are of the world are lost...those who are of the Whore are commanded to "come out of her, My people" and that not only includes papists, but "protestants" who follow papal doctrines.

Here is an easy way to prove the woman is not the RCC….

Revelation 17:9-10

King James Version

​

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.”

When John received the Revelation 5 of those kings/kingdoms had already fallen on which the woman sat. The RCC came well AFTER the 5 had already fallen, so the woman does not represent the RCC.

The woman’s name is Wickedness, which is why she sits on the heads of all those past Kings, and on present Kings who are of the world.

God’s people are called to come out of the ways of this Wicked world.

1 John 5:19
And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

 

[Phoneman777]

Here is an easy way to prove the woman is not the RCC….

Revelation 17:9-10 King James Version​

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.”

When John received the Revelation 5 of those kings/kingdoms had already fallen on which the woman sat. The RCC came well AFTER the 5 had already fallen, so the woman does not represent the RCC.

The woman’s name is Wickedness, which is why she sits on the heads of all those past Kings, and on present Kings who are of the world.

God’s people are called to come out of the ways of this Wicked world.

1 John 5:19
And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

We can't deny a "woman" refers to a church - a "pure" woman belongs to God.
The Whore, to the streets:

"I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely, delicate woman". ("Zion...thou art My people")
"I have espoused you...as a chaste virgin to Christ."
"And if I go, I will come again and receive (the church) unto Myself." (Hebrew marriage custom lingo)

"And (Israel) hath a whore's forehead."
"(Israel) has played the harlot with many lovers."
"(Israel) hast played the whore."

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

We can't deny a "woman" refers to a church - a "pure" woman belongs to God.
The Whore, to the streets:

"I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely, delicate woman". ("Zion...thou art My people")
"I have espoused you...as a chaste virgin to Christ."
"And if I go, I will come again and receive (the church) unto Myself." (Hebrew marriage custom lingo)

"And (Israel) hath a whore's forehead."
"(Israel) has played the harlot with many lovers."
"(Israel) hast played the whore."

It can refer to a church, but the RCC is not the Mother of, or the origin of the harlots (plural)and abominations of the earth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Not exactly. A "woman" in prophecy symbolizes a "church". The "Whore" is the papacy, the false Christian church.

Those who are of the world are lost...those who are of the Whore are commanded to "come out of her, My people" and that not only includes papists, but "protestants" who follow papal doctrines.

It includes much more than just that. You put a limitation on the scope of Mystery Babylon that the book of Revelation does not. Mystery Babylon is "the hold of EVERY foul spirit, and a cage of EVERY unclean and hateful bird" (Revelation 18:2).

What are people called to come out of or come out from in scripture? Only the papacy and papal doctrines? No. Out of much more than just that. Mystery Babylon is the mother of ALL harlots (Rev 17:5). The papacy is not the mother of ALL harlots.

The great city Mystery Babylon is the direct spiritual opposite of the holy city, New Jerusalem. All believers are spiritual citizens of the New Jerusalem and all unbelievers are spiritual citizens of Mystery Babylon.

Come out out her, My people? Out of what? Paul tells us.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

Come out of the spiritual city whose citizens are all unbelievers. Don't be unequally yoked with them and their spiritual city Babylon. Mystery Babylon represent all false religions, cults, doctrines, philosphies and belief systems of the world. We are not of the world (John 15:19), so we are not of Mystery Babylon. It is the mother of all that Paul mentioned and the mother of all unbelievers whereas the heavenly Jerusalem is the mother of all believers. It is identified with "unbelievers", "unrighteousness", spiritual "darkness", worshiping false gods like Belial, infidels, and idol worshipers. Notice the Lord says in 2 Cor 6:17: "touch not the unclean thing" and Revelation 18:2 identifies Babylon as "a cage of every unclean and hateful bird". Come out from among them, says Paul. Come out of their spiritual city Babylon, says God (Revelation 18:4).

Galatians 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Again, the great city Mystery Babylon is the spiritual antithesis of the holy city, the new heavenly Jerusalem. Mystery Babylon is the mother of all unbelievers and the new heavenly Jerusalem is the mother of all believers.

 

[Phoneman777]

It includes much more than just that. You put a limitation on the scope of Mystery Babylon that the book of Revelation does not.

In Revelation 17, the "Babylon the Great" Whore" riding the Beast is specifically speaking of the papacy - the apostate church "woman" holding the reins of the secular state, as in the days of Jezebel and Ahab and the Dark Ages.

In Revelation 18, what's depicted is the NWO:

"Kings of the Earth" is the coming one world government.
"Merchants of the Earth" is the coming one world economy.
"Babylon" is the coming one world religion which transcends the papacy with Satanism, Luciferianism, occultism, secret societies, Eastern mysticism, etc., with the papacy at the head of the entire thing.

Would you like to see a video where the leaders of every single notable world religion came and bowed themselves before the pope?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The "Babylon the Great" Whore" of Revelation 17 riding the Beast is specifically speaking of the papacy - the apostate church controlling the secular state, as in the days of Jezebel and Ahab.

The "Kings of the Earth" and the "Merchants of the Earth" and "Babylon" in Revelation 18 are generically referring to the coming NWO "global government" and "global economic system" and "global religious system" which includes all apostate religious systems with the papacy at the head.

Would you like to see a video where the leaders of every single notable world religion came and bowed themselves before the pope?

I'll watch that video as soon as you actually respond specifically to what I said in my post. Is it your belief that we shouldn't try to use scripture to interpret scripture? Was I wrong to relate 2 Corinthians 6:14-17 to Revelation 18:2-4 despite both passages talking about what God's people should come out of/from while avoiding what is "unclean"? Should we not see the great city Babylon as being the spiritual opposite of the holy city New Jerusalem? Does heavenly Jerusalem being "the mother of us all" (all believers - Galatians 4:26) not indicate anything about who has Babylon as their mother?

But, hey, I will give you credit for one thing. You didn't accuse me of basing what I said on Jesuit futurism or preterism. So, there's progress! Good job!

 

[Phoneman777]

I'll watch that video as soon as you actually respond specifically to what I said in my post.

Why? You claimed I limited my definition of "Babylon" to only the papacy, then "debunked" my "claim" by pointing out that the papacy is not a "cage" and "hold" of "every".

Textbook strawman argument - though unintentional, I believe - that could have been avoided if you'd have just asked me first.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why? You claimed I limited my definition of "Babylon" to only the papacy, then "debunked" my "claim" by pointing out that the papacy is not a "cage" and "hold" of "every".

Textbook strawman argument - though unintentional, I believe - that could have been avoided if you'd have just asked me first.

Say what now? Are you saying the papacy IS the hold of every foul spirit and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird (Rev 18:2)? If so, please explain how that is the case. Please speak clear English so I don't have to guess as to what you are intending to say here. What was I supposed to ask you first? I can only guess as to what you're talking about.

Do you always have to be so uptight and on the defensive? I'm trying to have a discussion here. Am I asking too much for you to specifically address my points before I address yours or before I watch a video that you want me to watch? Is that not fair in your mind?

 

[Phoneman777]

Say what now? Are you saying the papacy IS the hold of every foul spirit and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird (Rev 18:2)? If so, please explain how that is the case. Please speak clear English so I don't have to guess as to what you are intending to say here. Do you always have to be so uptight and on the defensive? I'm trying to have a discussion here. Am I asking too much for you to specifically address my points before I address yours or before I watch a video that you want me to watch? Is that not fair in your mind?

...sigh...

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

...sigh...

....double sigh....

It says a lot that you aren't willing to specifically address my points and also not willing to clarify whatever it is that you were intending to say. I don't think I was asking too much there, but far be it from you to address any challenges to your view or clarify anything you say. That's just too much for you to handle, apparently. Don't expect to be taken seriously when you clearly are not willing to address any other views and not willing to take any time to clarify your own.

 

[Phoneman777]

Say what now? Are you saying the papacy IS the hold of every foul spirit and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird (Rev 18:2)?

You wrongly claimed that I say "Babylon" and "Mystery Babylon" are the same: the papacy.

I clarified that "Mystery Babylon" is the papacy itself (the apostate church "whore" riding a secular state "beast") --- while "Babylon" refers to the coming "one world occult religious system" (with papacy at the head).

 

[Phoneman777]

....double sigh....

It says a lot that you aren't willing to specifically address my points and also not willing to clarify whatever it is that you were intending to say. I don't think I was asking too much there, but far be it from you to address any challenges to your view or clarify anything you say. That's just too much for you to handle, apparently. Don't expect to be taken seriously when you clearly are not willing to address any other views and not willing to take any time to clarify your own.

You need to go back and start over, now that you know that my position is that "Babylon" and the "Mystery Babylon" whore are not identical.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You wrongly claimed that I say "Babylon" and "Mystery Babylon" are the same: the papacy.

I clarified that "Mystery Babylon" is the papacy itself (the apostate church "whore" riding a secular state "beast") --- while "Babylon" refers to the coming "one world occult religious system" (with papacy at the head).

Don't blame me for you not being clear. I've never seen this strange belief that Mystery Babylon and Babylon aren't the same before, which I think is completely ridiculous. I see no basis for drawing that conclusion.

It's not really called "Mystery Babylon", anyway. It just indicates that Babylon is a mystery.

Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

You're trying to tell me that the mysterious "Babylon the Great" referenced in Rev 17:5 is different than Babylon the Great referenced in the following passage?

Revelation 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You need to go back and start over, now that you know that my position is that "Babylon" and the "Mystery Babylon" whore are not identical.

You somehow believe that this Babylon, which is described in Rev 17:5 as being a mystery and as "Babylon the great":

Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

Is different than this Babylon which is also described as "Babylon the great":

Revelation 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

These descriptions look very similar which I showed by color coding the similarities. And both describe Babylon as "Babylon the great". But, they are somehow different Babylons? No. That's clearly not the case. Babylon the great is Babylon the great. And it's mysterious. There isn't a mysterious Babylon the great and a separate not so mysterious Babylon the great. Every reference to the great city and harlot Babylon in Revelation is referring to the same Babylon. This idea that the Babylon in Revelation 17 is different than the one described in Revelation 18 is ridiculous.

 

[Gottservant]

As "Mother" Babylon has a choice, whether to worship God or the flesh - and SHE chooses to worship the flesh (and encourages her children to worship the flesh).

 

[Phoneman777]

You somehow believe that this Babylon, which is described in Rev 17:5 as being a mystery and as "Babylon the great":

Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

Is different than this Babylon which is also described as "Babylon the great":

Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen

Again, in Rev. 17, the "whore riding the beast" symbolizes an "apostate church controlling the state".

In Rev. 18, "Babylon" is global religious apostasy, by repeated use of "every, every" and it is also laid next to the global government "kings of the Earth" and global economy "Merchants of the Earth".

BTW, your belief that the dead aren't "surely" dead will deceive you into believing the coming Marian and "dearly departed" apparitions are actually Mary and our beloved dead - not demonic lying "spirits".

That's why I show you guys why your "proof" texts are no proof at all. I've shown you when Paul wrote "that mortality is swallowed up of "life" he has "life" contextually specified as "clothed upon" - thereby disqualifying naked and unclothed "disembodied souls" as possessing mortality-swallowing "life".

This is why Paul groaned to be "clothed upon" and "not be found naked" - he wanted to be absent from his mortal body, skip lying naked without a body in the grave awaiting resurrection, and just go on to be present with the Lord "clothed upon" in his immortal body - but he knew that only happens "at the last trump".

• If "disembodied souls" go straight to heaven at death, Paul would have never said:
• "if the dead rise not, let us eat, drink, for tomorrow we die"
• "if we have hope in Christ in this life only, we are most miserable"
• "what profit is it for me (to fight in Ephesus)

...he would have said, "Hey, if the dead rise not - who cares? We go straight to heaven regardless!"