The messiah didn't come yet.

[Eliyahu613]

I mean why kill an animal when one can just take the punishment upon self?

Bs"d

So that we can see what should have been done to us, but what is now done to the animal, because of God's mercy.

 

[rockytopva]

Bs"d

Everybody can go directly to God, without any intermediary. This was done by all the Gentiles who lived before the Jews were around.

Noach was a Gentile, but God spoke directly with him, and the first covenant God made, was with a non-Jew.

Thanks. I have peace and a sense of spirituality that goes with the trust in Jesus Christ and will stick to that path.

 

[Eliyahu613]

Welcome to this forum. I believe God created the Jew most intelligent to understand the concept of law and judgement. And one of the smartest was Albert Einstein. I believe if E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2) And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma, the sun is the visible form of E/c2
Mental E/c2 - Our thinking can produce creativeness, light, and good things
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

Bs"d

Einstein wasn't that smart. I think his IQ was in the 160's. Netanyahu is already 180, and Bobby Fischer was pushing 200.

But physics get much more simple once you realize that the material world doesn't exist, and only the spiritual world exists:

Matrix - MountZion

 

[Waiting on him]

Bs"d

So that we can see what should have been done to us, but what is now done to the animal, because of God's mercy.

What are your thoughts as to why all the animal sacrifice ceased in 70AD?

 

[rockytopva]

Bs"d

Einstein wasn't that smart. I think his IQ was in the 160's. Netanyahu is already 180, and Bobby Fischer was pushing 200.

But physics get much more simple once you realize that the material world doesn't exist, and only the spiritual world exists:

Matrix - MountZion

I was once living in the spiritual cold and darkness and came to warmth and light, and here is my story...

Remembering my old pastor

As far as spirituality Daniel once said...

And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. - Daniel 12:3

 

[101G]

Bs"d

The second prophecy there is this: "Messiah would be born in Bethlehem.Micah 5:2"

Here is the messianic prophecy of Mica 5:

Micha 5:2-9; "But thou Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for NOW shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders. And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men. And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver. Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off."

Here we have very clearly physical redemption from earthly enemies: "And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword", "Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off." These are very clear verses that can not be misinterpreted; when the messiah comes the Jewish enemies are going to be slaughtered. And the one coming forth from Bethlehem is to be a ruler in Israel, that is a king, or maybe nowadays a president, but not a wandering preacher and miracle healer.

So the messianic prophecy of Mica 5 is obviously NOT fulfilled by JC.

ERROR, and I again say ERROR, listen up Micah 5:2 "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting". THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN FULFILLED. scripture, Matthew 2:1 "Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
Matthew 2:2 "Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
Matthew 2:3 "When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
Matthew 2:4 "And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born". (Eliyahu, listen real good to the very next verse).
Matthew 2:5 "And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, (where was this written by the prophet, Mica 5:2, Listen),
Matthew 2:6 "And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel".

not only was JESUS identified as the messiah, but "GOD ALMIGHTY" in flesh as Governor. for the term "Ruler" means "Governor". let's see it clearly.
Psalms 22:28 "For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations".

here the term "Governor" is the Hebrew word,
H4910 מָשַׁל mashal (maw-shal') v.
to rule.
[a primitive root]
KJV: (have, make to have) dominion, governor, X indeed, reign, (bear, cause to, have) rule(-ing, -r), have power.

it's the same word use in Micah 5:2 for "Ruler"... BINGO. so not only is Jesus the Christ, But God himself in flesh.

for the lack of Space I'll address the the next part of your question quickly. you said, "Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off." These are very clear verses that can not be misinterpreted; when the messiah comes the Jewish enemies are going to be slaughtered. And the one coming forth from Bethlehem is to be a ruler in Israel, that is a king, or maybe nowadays a president, but not a wandering preacher and miracle healer".
The Jews look for a physical redemption, which they need Spiritual redemption. because their physical bondage was caused by a spiritual condition called "SIN". listen, Zechariah 3:9 "For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day". supportive scripture, Colossians 2:15 "And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it".

see, never, never give you own private interpretation of the scriptures, see 2 Peter 1:20.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

Bs"d

Why do you think that God said that JC was the messiah?

see post #66

PICJAG.

 

[Eliyahu613]

What are your thoughts as to why all the animal sacrifice ceased in 70AD?

Bs"d

They have ceased before, with the destruction of the first Temple. But the prophets tell us they will be reinstated again with the building of the third Temple.

 

[Eliyahu613]

ERROR, and I again say ERROR, listen up Micah 5:2 "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting".

Bs'd

Micah 5:2
New American Standard Bible "But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity."

Holman Christian Standard Bible " Bethlehem Ephrathah, you are small among the clans of Judah; One will come from you to be ruler over Israel for Me. His origin is from antiquity, from eternity.

New Life Version "His coming was planned long ago, from the beginning."

Darby Translation "whose goings forth are from of old, from the days of eternity."

American Standard Version "whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting."

All versions of the King James: "whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

Amplified Bible "Whose goings forth have been from of old, from ancient days (eternity).


All the above translation say the origins of the messiah are from "everlasting" or from "eternity", hereby implying that the messiah is God.
The Hebrew words here translated with "from everlasting" or "days of eternity" are "yamei olaam", which means literally "ancient days".
Many Bible translations translate it like that, only the above hold on to "days of eternity", or something with the same implications, because they want to push the wrong Christian idea that the messiah is God himself.

However, also the above translations know how to correctly translate the words "yamei olaam". We see that for instance in Micah 7:14, were the same expression "yamei olaam" is used. See here how the above translate it there:

Holman Christian Standard Bible " Let them graze in Bashan and Gilead as in ancient times."

New Life Version "Let them eat in Bashan and Gilead as in days long ago."

Darby Translation "let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old. "

American Standard Version "let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old."

King James: "let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old."

New American Standard Bible "Let them feed in Bashan and Gilead As in the days of old."

Amplified Bible "they shall feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old."




Another place where the expression "yamei olaam" is used, is in Isaiah 63:11

Holman Christian Standard Bible " Then He remembered the days of the past, [the days] of Moses [and] his people."

New Life Version "Then His people remembered the days long ago, the days of Moses."

Darby Translation "But he remembered the days of old, Moses [and] his people:"

American Standard Version "Then he remembered the days of old, Moses and his people,"

King James: "Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people,"

New American Standard Bible "Then His people remembered the days of old, of Moses"

Amplified Bible "Then His people [seriously] remembered the days of old, of Moses and his people"




Another place where the expression "yamei olaam" is used is Amos 9:11

Holman Christian Standard Bible "In that day I will restore the fallen booth of David: I will repair its gaps,
restore its ruins, and rebuild it as in the days of old,"

New Life Version "In that day I will build again the tent of David that fell down. Yes, I will build it again from the stones that fell down. I will set it up again as it used to be."

Darby Translation "and I will raise up its ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:"

American Standard Version "and I will raise up its ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old;"

King James: "and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:"

Amplified Bible "and I will raise up its ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old,"

New American Standard Bible "I will also raise up its ruins And rebuild it as in the days of old;"



Another place where the expression "yamei olaam" is used is in Malachi 3:4

Holman Christian Standard Bible "And the offerings of Judah and Jerusalem will please the LORD as in days of old and years gone by"

New Life Version "Then the gifts of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the Lord, as they were in the past."

Darby Translation "Then shall the oblation of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto J-e-h-o-v-a-h, as in the days of old, and as in former years."

American Standard Version "Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto J-e-h-o-v-a-h, as in the days of old, and as in ancient years. "

King James: "Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years."

Amplified Bible "hen will the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasing to the Lord as in the days of old and as in ancient years."

New American Standard Bible ""Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the LORD as in the days of old and as in former years."

It should be clear by now for everybody that the expression "yamei olaam" has no bearing on "days of eternity" whatsoever.
It is always translated correct, except there where Christianity wants to push it's dogma of a divine messiah. There the translations are corrupted in order to squeeze in JC.

 

[Eliyahu613]

not only was JESUS identified as the messiah, but "GOD ALMIGHTY" in flesh as Governor. for the term "Ruler" means "Governor". let's see it clearly.
Psalms 22:28 "For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations".

here the term "Governor" is the Hebrew word,
H4910 מָשַׁל mashal (maw-shal') v.
to rule.
[a primitive root]
KJV: (have, make to have) dominion, governor, X indeed, reign, (bear, cause to, have) rule(-ing, -r), have power.

it's the same word use in Micah 5:2 for "Ruler"... BINGO. so not only is Jesus the Christ, But God himself in flesh.

Bs"d

Let's face the facts: JC was never a governour, never a king, never a ruler, the messianic prophecy of Mica 5 is clearly not fulfilled by JC.

Gen 45:26 "They told him, “Joseph is still alive! In fact, he is ruler of all Egypt.”"

The same word "משל" is used here. Is Josef now also God?

Joshua 12:2 "Sihon king of the Amorites, who reigned in Heshbon. He ruled from Aroer on the rim of the Arnon Gorge"

Same root משל, is Sichon now also God?

 

[101G]

All the above translation say the origins of the messiah are from "everlasting" or from "eternity", hereby implying that the messiah is God.

#1. God, JESUS, Almighty has no Origins. but Jesus the "CHRIST", or the messiah, God shared in Flesh has a "beginning", see John 1:1. #2. Have not I been saying that? JESUS is God manifested in Flesh.... :cool:

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

Bs"d

Let's face the facts: JC was never a governour, never a king, never a ruler, the messianic prophecy of Mica 5 is clearly not fulfilled by JC.

Maybe not for you bet he "RULES" in my heart.

I see your problem, you look for a physical Ruler.... setting on a physical throne here on earth now, LOL, oh don't worry one day ... maybe you will see him, and yes, settinh on a physical throne. but for now you walk by flesh, listen up, Romans 8:1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit".

Romans 8:6 "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. (BINGO, there is that "ENMITY, Genesis 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel"). ......
Romans 8:8 "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

that made my day. see how the bible comes full circle.

PICJAG

 

[Eliyahu613]

Maybe not for you bet he "RULES" in my heart.

Bs"d

So we can agree on the fact that in the real world he never was a ruler.

 

[101G]

@Eliyahu613, one other thing, as KING, 1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; (remember in Matthew 2:2 "Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him". (he's YOUR, OUR "KING". and he's our "GOVERNOR", since you missed it before lets make it plain. Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace". the government shall be upon his shoulder, that's our Governor, he Governs the rules in the church)....

1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen".BINGO, there's that "EVERLASTING" in Micah 5:2..... (smile).

boy oh boy this is too simple. the bible is full circle. complete.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

Bs"d

So we can agree on the fact that in the real world he never was a ruler.

NO, see POST #75 above

PICJAG.

 

[Joseph77]

NO, see POST #75 above.

Rather, yes, and one day, see post #125 below.....

 

[101G]

Rather, yes, and one day, see post #125 below.....

 

[Joseph77]

Bs"d

Everybody can go directly to God, without any intermediary. This was done by all the Gentiles who lived before the Jews were around.

Noach was a Gentile, but God spoke directly with him, and the first covenant God made, was with a non-Jew.

No, the whole world was wicked, beyond belief today, as today is also.

i.e. the gentile nations as written, were without God (Christ) and without hope in the world. (almost like today, but today, they may have hope, if they seek Him)

Few sought Him.

 

[Waiting on him]

Bs"d

They have ceased before, with the destruction of the first Temple. But the prophets tell us they will be reinstated again with the building of the third Temple.

Are your prophets hearing from God

 

[Waiting on him]

I've not seen any new literature lately.