THE LAST SUPPER

[marksman]

Jesus said, "Whenever..." He didn't specify how often, so there's a lot of scope for different practices.

Passover isn't the only OT prototype of Communion. There's also the Bread of the Presence in the Tabernacle, which the priests ate at the end of every week - precedent for weekly "feeding on Christ", I would think.

The first point. Jesus did not need to specify how often. As Jews, they would have understood the reference in terms of the annual Passover feast as in "Whenever you do this [Passover feast] do it in remembrance of me (not your deliverance from Egypt or coming Messiah) for the simple reason the usual purpose for the Passover feast would become irrelevant so what he was doing was replacing one with the other.

The second point, the OT prototype, you are reading into it what is not there. Remember, Jesus was replacing the Old Covenant with the New Covenant in his blood, not the blood of animals.

The rituals of the Old Covenant were written for the Jews, not for the church.

 

[marksman]

Not sure, years ago I believe the farmers were actually grateful for the harvest, and did thank God. They appreciated what they had and knew a bad harvest would impact. Now we have so much that I am not sure we truly ' thank God ' in quite the same way- we often presume that the food will be there all year round.

In the Old Testament, the farmers gave one-tenth of their produce to the Lord as a means of thanksgiving and so the priests could eat. What they gave was always produce, not money.

This is one of the things the church has got wrong in demanding a tenth of your income to be given to the church. If you are going to use the OT as the yardstick and most people do, if you have 100 acres of wheat growing, you give 10 acres to the priests.

There is no mention of tithing in the New Testament. We are told to give as the Lord has blessed us.

 

[Taken]

Not sure, years ago I believe the farmers were actually grateful for the harvest, and did thank God. They appreciated what they had and knew a bad harvest would impact. Now we have so much that I am not sure we truly ' thank God ' in quite the same way- we often presume that the food will be there all year round.

I think farmers or otherwise individual gardeners are thankful for a bountiful harvest, regardless of what they are growing.

I tend to believe a believer will Pray for a good harvest and be Thankful to God for a good harvest...and an unbeliever will believe he had a stroke of good luck.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[marksman]

So that must be the same as our harvest festival perhaps , but even that has just become a practice without any real depth x

Such a pity.

 

[Deborah_]

The second point, the OT prototype, you are reading into it what is not there. Remember, Jesus was replacing the Old Covenant with the New Covenant in his blood, not the blood of animals.

The rituals of the Old Covenant were written for the Jews, not for the church.

But what did the Bread of the Presence represent, if not the Bread of life?

 

[marksman]

But what did the Bread of the Presence represent, if not the Bread of life?

Whatever it represents, it has no relevance to the subject matter of this thread.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Jesus last supper was a once a year event, held to commemorate the Jews deliverance from Egypt and to focus on the hope of the coming Messiah. Nothing more and nothing less.

Not provocative; boring!

Far more serious, it's a bunch of lies you're trying to sell to gullible ignorant. Jesus' last supper was a once in his lifetime event, "in the Night He was betrayed". Which He 'held' eating and drinking SUFFERING AND ANXIETY UNTO DEATH, BEING the Lamb of God Our Passover.

Which Supper we eat, to commemorate our deliverance from hell and the Land of the Darkness of our sins, "eating and drinking OF CHRIST the Substance and Focus of the Christian Hope of the Coming of Christ. And MUCH more but nothing less.

 

[Nancy]

Yes, I know. You don't have to tell me. I am being provocative but I have to have fun now and then.

Just to put you in the picture I have made a very extensive study of this topic and have read many, many books and articles dealing with it. Soooooo, I am not just shooting from the mouth just to annoy you.

Now, to the Last Supper or the Lord's Supper or communion or mass or whatever you want to call it.

Talking from an evangelical perspective, the communion as we usually know it or perform it is NOT in scripture.

The last supper of Jesus has no bearing on what we claim it does.

Frank Viola in one of his books "Pagan Christianity" gives a potted history of communion which I agree he got right.

Prior to the Reformation, the last/Lord's supper was a Roman Catholic invention that they called mass. The idea of the reformation was to break away from the RC church which some considered apostic, and to form a new expression of Christianity, which they did...almost.

The reformation kept the RC mass and called it the Lord's Table and they kept the local priest and called him the pastor.

Read scripture with an open mind and you will get a different story. I will not go into a detailed thesis on the subject but raise a couple of points.

Jesus last supper was a once a year event, held to commemorate the Jews deliverance from Egypt and to focus on the hope of the coming Messiah. Nothing more and nothing less.

They did not meet weekly, monthly or any other time. When Jesus said "Do this in remembrance of me" he said, "Do this in remembrance of me." He did not say, "Do this in remembrance of me every week with a bit of bread and a sip of wine."

The Passover meal was a meal and to serve up a bit of bread and a sip of wine would have been an insult.

So if you are going to use the last supper as authority for your communion, then you do so once a year and it is a full meal. If you don't forget it.

Point two is we have turned it into some mystical supernatural event that is supposed to confer some magical quality to it.

The fact is the last supper was a meal where all the family from grandfather down to grandchildren gathered together in the home to eat a symbolic MEAL and the senior member of the family (grandfather) recited the history of the Jews to ensure that everyone down to the grandchildren never forgot who they were and where they came from.

This was done every year without fail so it is no wonder that Jews are steeped in Jewish history. When the grandfather died, his eldest son would take over the recital and having heard the story year after year after year, he was already trained in the history so he could recite it without hesitation.

Over to you.

Agreed. It WAS a meal and Jesus said to remember Him as "oft you do this". So do we not remember Him and give him thanks and praise for what He has set before us to eat? Would this ("communion") not co-inside with the Jewish Seder? When most say the word "communion" I immediately think of the "host" of the CC as, that was where I was brought up in. I now see the communion gathering of the saints....for meals!

 

[marksman]

Not provocative; boring!

Far more serious, it's a bunch of lies you're trying to sell to gullible ignorant. Jesus' last supper was a once in his lifetime event, "in the Night He was betrayed". Which He 'held' eating and drinking SUFFERING AND ANXIETY UNTO DEATH, BEING the Lamb of God Our Passover.

Which Supper we eat, to commemorate our deliverance from hell and the Land of the Darkness of our sins, "eating and drinking OF CHRIST the Substance and Focus of the Christian Hope of the Coming of Christ. And MUCH more but nothing less.

Thank you for your gracious response.

 

[marksman]

I have started reading a book where the main characters are a Jewish family and a Palestinian family. In it, the Jewish grandfather says "I love you dearly David, almost as much as my own daughter. Enough even to break bread with Amos Ben-Aron."

 

[marksman]

Agreed. It WAS a meal and Jesus said to remember Him as "oft you do this". So do we not remember Him and give him thanks and praise for what He has set before us to eat? Would this ("communion") not co-inside with the Jewish Seder? When most say the word "communion" I immediately think of the "host" of the CC as, that was where I was brought up in. I now see the communion gathering of the saints.

An interesting comment. As I understand it the Seder was the meal that began the celebration of the Passover week with the last Supper being the culmination of it.

The Seder is a feast that includes reading, drinking wine, telling stories, eating special foods, singing, and other Passover traditions. Not your average everyday meal.

If we really delve into the Jewish meaning of the feasts, we will find that our bland interpretations of them are robbing us of the richness of their original meaning.

 

[marksman]

Not provocative; boring!

Far more serious, it's a bunch of lies you're trying to sell to gullible ignorant. Jesus' last supper was a once in his lifetime event, "in the Night He was betrayed". Which He 'held' eating and drinking SUFFERING AND ANXIETY UNTO DEATH, BEING the Lamb of God Our Passover.

Which Supper we eat, to commemorate our deliverance from hell and the Land of the Darkness of our sins, "eating and drinking OF CHRIST the Substance and Focus of the Christian Hope of the Coming of Christ. And MUCH more but nothing less.

You will find that the Passover meal was celebrated once a year and Jesus who was a perfect Jew, would have celebrated it every year with his family.

 

[Nancy]

An interesting comment. As I understand it the Seder was the meal that began the celebration of the Passover week with the last Supper being the culmination of it.

The Seder is a feast that includes reading, drinking wine, telling stories, eating special foods, singing, and other Passover traditions. Not your average everyday meal.

If we really delve into the Jewish meaning of the feasts, we will find that our bland interpretations of them are robbing us of the richness of their original meaning.

I have been to a seder once and boy do they drink allot of wine! Lol...I cannot remember much on the food except eggs, matzo (?) horseradish and dipping the bitter herb. It was in like in 1993, shortly after that, I was invited to a Bar Mitzvah! That was fun.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

An interesting comment. As I understand it the Seder was the meal that began the celebration of the Passover week with the last Supper being the culmination of it.

The Seder is a feast that includes reading, drinking wine, telling stories, eating special foods, singing, and other Passover traditions. Not your average everyday meal.

If we really delve into the Jewish meaning of the feasts, we will find that our bland interpretations of them are robbing us of the richness of their original meaning.

If we really delve into the Christian meaning of the OT feasts, we will find that our bland traditional interpretations of them are robbing them of the richness of their original meaning, which was to lead Israel of God to their Saviour. But because they did not search the Scriptures to find Him, they failed to recognise Him when He arrived, their True Meaning the Christ of God Saviour.

Therefore, yes, Seder was the meal that began the celebration of the Passover week of ULB, but with Jesus' Last Passover of Yahweh Suffering, BECAUSE OF HIS SUFFERING OF IT HAVING BEEN THE PASSOVER LAMB OF GOD, the Jews did not eat it-- Christ ate it BEING the Passover of Yahweh SUFFERING BEING the Culmination of Law and Prophesy and BEING the very End of all the OT feasts.

So the Seder ever since Jesus' Last Passover Suffering of Yahweh "AT THE TABLE" of "the Lord's Supper in the Night He was betrayed" "according to the Scriptures" "on the first day they KILLED the passover the very first day they REMOVED leaven", is become a purely Jewish feast that includes reading, drinking wine, telling stories, eating special foods, singing, and other Jewish passover traditions. Not the Christian and NEW, "Lord's Supper".

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

You will find that the Passover meal was celebrated once a year and Jesus who was a perfect Jew, would have celebrated it every year with his family.

Jesus attended feasts, but we do not read that He ever ate of any feast, except his Last Passover of Yahweh which He ate of, through his Suffering the Death of The First-Born of the Almighty "IN THIS THAT SELFSAME BONE-ESSENTIAL NIGHT" of God's Eternal Covenant of Grace, "on the fourteenth day of the First Month of Passover to you the children of Israel".

 

[CoreIssue]

Biblically, The Lord's table is simple.

They sat down to have a last meal together. Christ picked up the bread and broke it into pieces to share. One loaf, not many, not wafers and not crackers.

It represented his body broken on the cross.

He picked up the cup of wine. Nothing fancy, a regular cup of the day and drank wine from it.

It represented the blood he would shed on the cross. Which clearly meant in the day his life. Life is in the blood.

In the ancient Jewish practice the bread was broken during the blessing given at the start of a meal. The one giving the blessing broke the bread.

The blessing Jesus gave was the announcement of the new covenant of blood. His blood. Not the still future new covenant to the houses of Judah and Israel as talked about Jeremiah and Hebrews.

There was no frequency stated. Simply whenever you set down for such a meal.

Everyone at that table knew what it meant. But today the denominations do not do not know.

The only ones who do it correctly I am aware of are the very small Non-denominational churches and groups.

There is no requirement for it to take place in the church under the leadership of the pastor. No fancy liturgy attached.

As with many other things denominations have taken the simplicity of Christianity established by Jesus and the apostles and tried to copy the Old Testament priest and meetings.

 

[Enoch111]

I have been thinking about this as well, with the arrive of the 13th Nisan.

If you will recall, the Last Supper was held in the late evening, and according to Jewish reckoning, the 13th of Nisan was already over by sunset, so the Last Supper was actually on the 14th of Nisan, as required for the Passover Meal. It is impossible that the Lord would not observe the Passover strictly in accordance with the Law of Moses:

These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. In the fourteenth day of the first month [Nisan] at even is the LORD'S Passover. (Lev 23:4,5)

And since Christ died later on that same day BEFORE SUNSET, He died on the 14th of Nisan as "Christ our Passover".

Today the Last Supper is the Lord's Supper, and so this OP has a lot of nonsense in it (meant to be provocative).

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The first point. Jesus did not need to specify how often. As Jews, they would have understood the reference in terms of the annual Passover feast as in "Whenever you do this [Passover feast] do it in remembrance of me (not your deliverance from Egypt or coming Messiah) for the simple reason the usual purpose for the Passover feast would become irrelevant so what he was doing was replacing one with the other.

Good point, Jesus did not need to specify how often.
Even so, as Jews, they would have understood the reference to "Do this in remembrance..." in terms of the Law which commanded them to "remember the Sabbath, to keep it". But of course that would have been to them the last thing they'd given a thought, because, what can the Holy Sabbath Day have to do with This Man clothed like a slave kneeling down before us washing our feet all aspiring to be the greatest in the Kingdom of God?... can This Man call on us to eat this humble meal of bread and wine "as often" as the "Sabbath, OF THE LORD GOD" is "remembered"? Nooooo.... we don't think so.

Yet, as it turned out not long after, Christ's apostle Paul recorded for posterity, "Do not let yourselves be judged or condemned with regard to your EATING AND DRINKING OF CHRIST THE SUBSTANCE THE NOURISHMENT OF FEAST MINISTERED, whether of month's or of SABBATHS'" of however "often" occurrence. Colossians 2:16. "Whenever you do this [the Lord's Supper], do it in remembrance of Me" "concerning (whom) Moses and all the Prophets in all the Scriptures and in the Law and in the Psalms, wrote", which "of old (that is, from the beginning of the Good News of Jesus Christ being proclaimed) IS BEING read (by) THEM THAT PREACH HIM -Jesus Christ- in the churches EVERY SABBATH".

So that was "how often" Jesus meant his "EATING AND DRINKING" OF "SUFFERING" the Passover of Yahweh Suffering, soon after, would be "remembered", "for God .. in these last days BY THE SON .. thus spake concerning the Seventh Day."

 

[FHII]

In the Old Testament, the farmers gave one-tenth of their produce to the Lord as a means of thanksgiving and so the priests could eat. What they gave was always produce, not money.

Not everyone in the OT was a farmer and there were plenty of times people gave money.

This is one of the things the church has got wrong in demanding a tenth of your income to be given to the church. If you are going to use the OT as the yardstick and most people do, if you have 100 acres of wheat growing, you give 10 acres to the priests.

I imagine the are crooked preachers who "demand" a tenth of your income, but probably most who talk about tithes simply ask for it and preach about it.

So if we aren't farmers are we not supposed to give?

There is no mention of tithing in the New Testament. We are told to give as the Lord has blessed us.

Actually there is.

Matthew 23:23 KJV
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Jesus said they ought to pay tithes, but they left some things undone. Jesus had no problem with tithing.

The NT concept of giving is to give as your heart says. The widow and most of the folks in Acts 4 gave all they had.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

If you will recall, the Last Supper was held in the late evening, and according to Jewish reckoning, the 13th of Nisan was already over by sunset, so the Last Supper was actually on the 14th of Nisan, as required for the Passover Meal. It is impossible that the Lord would not observe the Passover strictly in accordance with the Law of Moses:

These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. In the fourteenth day of the first month [Nisan] at even is the LORD'S Passover. (Lev 23:4,5)

And since Christ died later on that same day BEFORE SUNSET, He died on the 14th of Nisan as "Christ our Passover".

Today the Last Supper is the Lord's Supper, and so this OP has a lot of nonsense in it (meant to be provocative).

Ah Enoch111 it is really wonderful we at last agree on something! Praise the Lord

In the fear of the Lord allow me to bring your attention to page 51... http://www.biblestudents.co.za/books/Book 1, 1 Passover to Crucifixion.pdf