The history of how Sunday worship came about.
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
But Christ did say what you bind on earth is bound in Heaven.
God did not say to stop slavery or polygamy or selling your daughter as a sex slave either…..By the way how much will your daughter cost me?
What reformers held that Sunday observance was not juris divini (of divine law), but only quasi juris divini (of semidivine law)?
Observing the day that Yeshua resurrected as the Lord’s Day was in progress before the end of the first century. Early Christian writers from then on agreed with Sunday as the Christian day of worship and condemned Christians for observing the Jewish Saturday Sabbath. So the Sunday worship had been practiced and endorsed for over 200 years before the Roman Catholic Church, all the Catholics did was agree with it.
And also Paul indicated that it does not matter what day you worship.
One of the problems with not being an educated historian is keeping time periods straight with what happened in those time periods. Yes at one point God allowed fathers to sell their daughters as sex slaves. And now a days people that call themselves Christians follow Jewish Law....I wonder do they sell their daughters at yard sales.
Time period…..the New Testament….Yes Christ’s ministry is written in the New Testament but technically most of his ministry was still in the Old Covenant. And the Saturday Jewish Sabbath was the only weekly holy day ….so in the bible that is all you are going to hear about. Then the Jews and Jewish-Christians would not allow Gentile-Christians in the Temple, so was that one reasons that they switched to the Lord’s Day. I think that it was primarily because of Christ's resurrection….Maybe they considered themselves Christ’s Witnesses.
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In Stanley's History, page 40: "The popes filled the place of the vacant emperors at Rome, inheriting
their power, their prestige, and their titles from PAGANISM."
"In short, sun worship, symbolically speaking, lies at the very heart of the great festivals which the Christian Church celebrates today, and these relics of heathen religion have, through the medium of their sacred rites, curiously enough blended with practices and beliefs utterly antagonistic to the spirit which prompted them." -Sun Lore of All Ages, Olcott, p. 248
"Yet the cross itself is the oldest of phallic emblems, and the lozenge-shaped windows of cathedrals are proof that the yonic symbols have survived the destructions of the pagan Mysteries. The very structure of the church itself is permeated with (sexual symbolism) phallicism. Remove from the Christian Church all emblems of Priapic origin and nothing is left..." -The secret teaching of all ages by Manley P. Hall
"When the zealots of the primitave Christian Church sought to Christianize paganism, the pagan initiates retorted with a powerful effort to paganize Christianity. The Christians failed but the pagans succeeded. With the decline of paganism the initiated pagan hierophants transferred their base of operations to the new vehicle of primitive Christianity, adopting the symbols of the new cult to conceal those eternal verities which are ever the priceless possession of the wise." -The secret teachings of all ages, Manley P. Hall p. CLXXXV
"...The world, cloaked with a form of righteousness, walked into the church. Now the work of corruption rapidly progressed. Paganism, while appearing to be vanquished, became the conqueror. Her spirit controlled the church. Her doctrines, ceremonies, and superstitions were incorporated into the faith and worship of the professed followers of Christ." -The Great Controversy, p. 50
"The belief in miracle-working objects, talismans, amulets, and formulas was dear to Christianity, and they were received from pagan antiquity . . . The vestments of the clergy and the papal title of 'pontifex maximus' were legacies from pagan Rome. The [Catholic] Church found that rural converts still revered certain springs, wells, trees, and stones; she thought it wiser to bless these to Christian use then to break too sharply the customs of sentiment . . . Pagan festivals dear to the people, reappeared as Christian feasts, and pagan rites were transformed into Christian liturgy . . . The Christian calendar of saints replaced the Roman 'fasti' [gods]; ancient divinities dear to the people were allowed to revive under the names of 'Christian saints' . . . Gradually the tenderest features of Astarte, Cybele, Artemis, Diana, and Isis were gathered together in the worship of Mary"--Wil Durant, The Age of Faith, 1950, pp. 745-746.
Langdon tells us that Mary worship came from ancient Babylon where the virgin mother-goddess was worshiped under the name "Ishtar." Elsewhere in the Near East, the mother-goddess was called "Astarte, Ashtoreth, Persephone, Artemis, [Diana] of Ephesus, Venus, and Isis." This goddess, considered to be greater than any god, was called by these heathen the "virgin mother, merciful mother, Queen of Heaven, and my lady" [which is what "Madonna" means in Italian]. Langdon says she was often sculptured in mother-and-infant images, or as a "mater dolorom" [sorrowful mother] interceding for men with a wrathful god. And thus ancient paganism was brought into the churches and lives of Christians.--see S.H. Langdon, Semitic Mythology, 1931 edition, pp. 12-34, 108-111, 341-344. Laing mentions several other corruptions by which the mother-goddess was worshiped by heathens, that Rome adopted into Christianity: holy water, votive offerings, elevation of sacred objects [lifting of the host], the priest's bells, the decking of images, processions, festivals, prayers for the dead, the worship of relics and the statues of saints.--see Gordon J. Laing, Survivals of Roman Religion, 1931 edition, pp. 92-95, 123-131,238-241.
Two dominant elements brought into Christianity from paganism by Rome were Sun worship symbols and the religious practices of ancient Babylon] "The solar theology of the Chaldaeans [Babylonians], had decisive effect . . . [upon the] final form reached by the religion of the pagan Semites, and following them, by that of the Romans when [the Roman emperor] Aurelian, the conqueror of Palmyra, had raised 'Sol Invictus' [the invincible sun-god] to the rank of supreme divinity in the Empire"--The Cambridge Ancient History, vol. 11, pp. 643, 646-647. From Palmyra he transferred to the new sanctuary the images of Helios [the sun-god] and Bel, the malaise patron god of Babylon--see Cumont, The Oriental Religions In Roman Paganism, 1911 edition, pp. 114-115, 124.
"The [Catholic] Church took the pagan philosophy and made it the buckler of faith against the heathen. She took the pagan Roman Pantheon, temple of all the gods, and made it sacred to all the martyrs; so it stands to this day. She took the pagan Sunday and made it the Christian Sunday. She took the pagan Easter and made it the feast we celebrate during this season . . . The Sun was a foremost god with heathendom . . . The sun has worshipers at this hour in Persia and other lands . . . Hence the Church would seem to say, 'Keep that old pagan name [Sunday]. It shall remain consecrated, sanctified.' And thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder, became the Christian Sunday, sacred to Jesus"--William L. Gildea, "Paschale Gaudium," in The Catholic World, 58, March, 1894, p. 809 [A Roman Catholic weekly].
Its clear that the Papacy took all the rites and sacraments and false doctrines from Pagan Rome and put them into Papal Rome as we can plainly see..
their power, their prestige, and their titles from PAGANISM."
"In short, sun worship, symbolically speaking, lies at the very heart of the great festivals which the Christian Church celebrates today, and these relics of heathen religion have, through the medium of their sacred rites, curiously enough blended with practices and beliefs utterly antagonistic to the spirit which prompted them." -Sun Lore of All Ages, Olcott, p. 248
"Yet the cross itself is the oldest of phallic emblems, and the lozenge-shaped windows of cathedrals are proof that the yonic symbols have survived the destructions of the pagan Mysteries. The very structure of the church itself is permeated with (sexual symbolism) phallicism. Remove from the Christian Church all emblems of Priapic origin and nothing is left..." -The secret teaching of all ages by Manley P. Hall
"When the zealots of the primitave Christian Church sought to Christianize paganism, the pagan initiates retorted with a powerful effort to paganize Christianity. The Christians failed but the pagans succeeded. With the decline of paganism the initiated pagan hierophants transferred their base of operations to the new vehicle of primitive Christianity, adopting the symbols of the new cult to conceal those eternal verities which are ever the priceless possession of the wise." -The secret teachings of all ages, Manley P. Hall p. CLXXXV
"...The world, cloaked with a form of righteousness, walked into the church. Now the work of corruption rapidly progressed. Paganism, while appearing to be vanquished, became the conqueror. Her spirit controlled the church. Her doctrines, ceremonies, and superstitions were incorporated into the faith and worship of the professed followers of Christ." -The Great Controversy, p. 50
"The belief in miracle-working objects, talismans, amulets, and formulas was dear to Christianity, and they were received from pagan antiquity . . . The vestments of the clergy and the papal title of 'pontifex maximus' were legacies from pagan Rome. The [Catholic] Church found that rural converts still revered certain springs, wells, trees, and stones; she thought it wiser to bless these to Christian use then to break too sharply the customs of sentiment . . . Pagan festivals dear to the people, reappeared as Christian feasts, and pagan rites were transformed into Christian liturgy . . . The Christian calendar of saints replaced the Roman 'fasti' [gods]; ancient divinities dear to the people were allowed to revive under the names of 'Christian saints' . . . Gradually the tenderest features of Astarte, Cybele, Artemis, Diana, and Isis were gathered together in the worship of Mary"--Wil Durant, The Age of Faith, 1950, pp. 745-746.
Langdon tells us that Mary worship came from ancient Babylon where the virgin mother-goddess was worshiped under the name "Ishtar." Elsewhere in the Near East, the mother-goddess was called "Astarte, Ashtoreth, Persephone, Artemis, [Diana] of Ephesus, Venus, and Isis." This goddess, considered to be greater than any god, was called by these heathen the "virgin mother, merciful mother, Queen of Heaven, and my lady" [which is what "Madonna" means in Italian]. Langdon says she was often sculptured in mother-and-infant images, or as a "mater dolorom" [sorrowful mother] interceding for men with a wrathful god. And thus ancient paganism was brought into the churches and lives of Christians.--see S.H. Langdon, Semitic Mythology, 1931 edition, pp. 12-34, 108-111, 341-344. Laing mentions several other corruptions by which the mother-goddess was worshiped by heathens, that Rome adopted into Christianity: holy water, votive offerings, elevation of sacred objects [lifting of the host], the priest's bells, the decking of images, processions, festivals, prayers for the dead, the worship of relics and the statues of saints.--see Gordon J. Laing, Survivals of Roman Religion, 1931 edition, pp. 92-95, 123-131,238-241.
Two dominant elements brought into Christianity from paganism by Rome were Sun worship symbols and the religious practices of ancient Babylon] "The solar theology of the Chaldaeans [Babylonians], had decisive effect . . . [upon the] final form reached by the religion of the pagan Semites, and following them, by that of the Romans when [the Roman emperor] Aurelian, the conqueror of Palmyra, had raised 'Sol Invictus' [the invincible sun-god] to the rank of supreme divinity in the Empire"--The Cambridge Ancient History, vol. 11, pp. 643, 646-647. From Palmyra he transferred to the new sanctuary the images of Helios [the sun-god] and Bel, the malaise patron god of Babylon--see Cumont, The Oriental Religions In Roman Paganism, 1911 edition, pp. 114-115, 124.
"The [Catholic] Church took the pagan philosophy and made it the buckler of faith against the heathen. She took the pagan Roman Pantheon, temple of all the gods, and made it sacred to all the martyrs; so it stands to this day. She took the pagan Sunday and made it the Christian Sunday. She took the pagan Easter and made it the feast we celebrate during this season . . . The Sun was a foremost god with heathendom . . . The sun has worshipers at this hour in Persia and other lands . . . Hence the Church would seem to say, 'Keep that old pagan name [Sunday]. It shall remain consecrated, sanctified.' And thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder, became the Christian Sunday, sacred to Jesus"--William L. Gildea, "Paschale Gaudium," in The Catholic World, 58, March, 1894, p. 809 [A Roman Catholic weekly].
Its clear that the Papacy took all the rites and sacraments and false doctrines from Pagan Rome and put them into Papal Rome as we can plainly see..
I think it clearly does...
Exodus 16:23
And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
Exodus 20:8
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 31:14
Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exodus 31:15
Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 35:2
Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the Lord: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.
Leviticus 23:3
Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.
Leviticus 23:24
Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.
Nehemiah 9:14
And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:
Isaiah 58:13
If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holyof the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Ezekiel 22:8
Thou hast despised mine holy things, and hast profaned my sabbaths.
Ezekiel 22:26
Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.
You mean, "Please find it in one of those writings which were collected into the canon in the fourth century"? I can't.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
The Hebrew calendar has 30 days in each month, we are now going by the Gregorian calendar. Which day is the real Sabath?
It was not changed and Christ continued to uphold throughout His ministry by His words and actions...
Matthew 12:8
For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Matthew 12:12
How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
Matthew 24:20
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mark 1:21
And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught.
Mark 2:28
Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Mark 6:2
And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
Luke 4:16
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
Luke 6:5
And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Check your history as historians can trace the days and dates with certainty, so there is a constant tracking which allows it. We find that Astronomers tell us that there has never been any change in the weekly cycle. The reference books and encyclopedias in the world show us and agree with this. The week has never changed no matter the peoples or clan or tribe. The unchangable nature of the Sabbath is even proven by the languages of mankind. Dr. William Mead Jones of London, England, analyzed 160 ancient and modern languagesand found that 108 of them call the seventh day of the week the "Sabbath." This is three out of five of the known languages of mankind, so the weekly cycle has been known and so has the Sabbath.
It is a day to cease from work and be still and listen to God in prayer and give Him worship and praise which only He deserves...
Now some people claim that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday to honor the resurrection, but there never was a change and the Bible has nothing on it. Let’s look at the some of the passages that people try to say shows the change..
John 20:19
Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Some claim the disciples met for Sunday worship, but if you examine the verse carefully, you’ll notice the words “for fear of the Jews”, that is the key part in fully understanding this passage that this was no Sunday worship or new day for the Sabbath. The disciples were afraid and were hiding from the Jews and nothing in the verse hints at the first day being holy.
1 Corinthians 16:1-2
Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
Here, Paul is suggesting that believers set aside a gift for the needy brethren. There’s no meeting inferred here. He’s simply asking them to store up a donation at home to be turned in at a later date.
Acts 20:7
And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
Biblically, days begin at sundown, so this turns out to be after sundown, what we would call Saturday night. At daybreak, when it is still Sunday, Paul sets off on a long hike to catch a ride on a ship. If Sunday were the Lord’s Day, he wouldn’t have been starting on a journey. So there is no change anywhere in the Bible from Sabbath to Sunday worship, it does not exist, it comes from another origin not of God....
John 20:19
Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Some claim the disciples met for Sunday worship, but if you examine the verse carefully, you’ll notice the words “for fear of the Jews”, that is the key part in fully understanding this passage that this was no Sunday worship or new day for the Sabbath. The disciples were afraid and were hiding from the Jews and nothing in the verse hints at the first day being holy.
1 Corinthians 16:1-2
Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
Here, Paul is suggesting that believers set aside a gift for the needy brethren. There’s no meeting inferred here. He’s simply asking them to store up a donation at home to be turned in at a later date.
Acts 20:7
And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
Biblically, days begin at sundown, so this turns out to be after sundown, what we would call Saturday night. At daybreak, when it is still Sunday, Paul sets off on a long hike to catch a ride on a ship. If Sunday were the Lord’s Day, he wouldn’t have been starting on a journey. So there is no change anywhere in the Bible from Sabbath to Sunday worship, it does not exist, it comes from another origin not of God....
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry Hobie, you are beating a dead horse. You will never, ever change Sunday worship or convince anyone to change from Sunday worship.
Jude Thaddeus
Active Member
Sorry, Hobie. Your private war against the Catholic Church is as stupid as it disgusting. Maybe that's why you don't get many replies to your walls of text. Sunday observance is based on the Resurrection (that you can't find in the Bible???) Sabbath observance is valid for the Jews. They don't accept the Resurrection. Your "pagan influence fallacy" is just that, a fallacy you seem to be obsessed with.
Opponents of the Church often attempt to discredit Catholicism by attempting to show similarities between it and the beliefs or practices of ancient paganism. This fallacy is frequently committed by Fundamentalists against Catholics; by Seventh-day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, and others against both Protestants and Catholics; and by atheists and skeptics against both Christians and Jews. (And Hobie who drank the Kool-Aid of the professional LIAR of Alexander Hislop)
The nineteenth century witnessed a flowering of this “pagan influence fallacy.” Publications such as The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop (the classic English text charging the Catholic Church with paganism) paved the way for generations of antagonism toward the Church. During this time, entire new sects were created (Seventh-day Adventists, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses)—all considering traditional Catholicism and Protestantism as polluted by paganism. This era also saw atheistic “freethinkers” such as Robert Ingersoll writing books attacking Christianity and Judaism as pagan.
The pagan influence fallacy has not gone away in the twentieth century, but newer archaeology and more mature scholarship have diminished its influence. Yet there are still many committing it. In Protestant circles, numerous works have continued to popularize the claims of Alexander Hislop, most notably the comic books of Jackkk Chickkk and the book Babylon Mystery Religion by the young Ralph Woodrow (later Woodrow realized its flaws and wrote The Babylon Connection? repudiating it and refuting Hislop). Other Christian and quasi-Christian sects have continued to charge mainstream Christianity with paganism, and many atheists have continued to repeat—unquestioned—the charges of paganism leveled by their forebears.
www.catholic.com
I've posted this before, and Hobie keeps running from the facts.
Hobie is a professed Hislopite.
For those who avoid Catholic sources like a virus, here's an evangelical source you may find interesting:
Opponents of the Church often attempt to discredit Catholicism by attempting to show similarities between it and the beliefs or practices of ancient paganism. This fallacy is frequently committed by Fundamentalists against Catholics; by Seventh-day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, and others against both Protestants and Catholics; and by atheists and skeptics against both Christians and Jews. (And Hobie who drank the Kool-Aid of the professional LIAR of Alexander Hislop)
The nineteenth century witnessed a flowering of this “pagan influence fallacy.” Publications such as The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop (the classic English text charging the Catholic Church with paganism) paved the way for generations of antagonism toward the Church. During this time, entire new sects were created (Seventh-day Adventists, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses)—all considering traditional Catholicism and Protestantism as polluted by paganism. This era also saw atheistic “freethinkers” such as Robert Ingersoll writing books attacking Christianity and Judaism as pagan.
The pagan influence fallacy has not gone away in the twentieth century, but newer archaeology and more mature scholarship have diminished its influence. Yet there are still many committing it. In Protestant circles, numerous works have continued to popularize the claims of Alexander Hislop, most notably the comic books of Jackkk Chickkk and the book Babylon Mystery Religion by the young Ralph Woodrow (later Woodrow realized its flaws and wrote The Babylon Connection? repudiating it and refuting Hislop). Other Christian and quasi-Christian sects have continued to charge mainstream Christianity with paganism, and many atheists have continued to repeat—unquestioned—the charges of paganism leveled by their forebears.
Is Catholicism Pagan?
Catholic beliefs are not "borrowed" from earlier pagan cults. We clear away the confusion and give you some helpful hints on how to respond to this charge.
I've posted this before, and Hobie keeps running from the facts.
Hobie is a professed Hislopite.For those who avoid Catholic sources like a virus, here's an evangelical source you may find interesting:
BEWARE OF ALEXANDER HISLOP AND HISLOPITES ON THE FORUM
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That is how people have come to see it, but that is only tradition. I see listening to God, prayers, and worship as a daily thing. The day of rest is just that, but man has made it a day of churching where people have to work to hold services. Do you think it is possible for Christians to meet in homes any day of the week and worship, praise, and discuss scripture - or do we have to go to some building and formally present ourselves to "official" speakers for God? It is hard to see past our tradition, isn't it?
Jude Thaddeus
Active Member
Tradition isn't a dirty word.
Why can't it be both? "some building" is not a bad thing. Can you fit 120 people in your living room? Ephesians 4 says we need the church for sound teaching, sola scriptura says you don't. They both can't be true at the same time.
If we want to ponder the words of God, doing it in a small group is effective. Being preached at in a large group limits our ability to ponder and share thoughts. Sadly, we have come to think that "going to church" is a mandate. Meeting with fellow Christians and discussing God's words IS "church."
When it goes against God's Word, it's origin is not just of man, but the original rebel against God, Satan himself...
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