The Godly Heresy of Sinless Perfectionism
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Behold
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'""""Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because whoever suffers in the body is done with sin. As a result, they do not live the rest of their earthly lives for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God."""""
Notice the verse tells you to "arm yourself".
So that is a Pauline reference to "put on the whole armor of God".
Then, notice that the verse suggests that there are those believers who DO live for "evil human desires" and they are not counted as lost.
They are counted as carnal = who are saved but carnal., as they are not walking according to the faith.
They have dead faith, yet, are still "in Christ".
The term for this type of believer is : Backslider, or Backslidden.
And you can only be a Backslider, if you are a CHRISTIAN.
You can't be an unbeliever and be a backslider.....
So, once again we see that Carnal Christians are still Christians.
Why?
Because they are BORN AGAIN., as that is WHY a person becomes and remains a : CHRISTian.
You can never stop being BORN.
And you can never stop being born again.
That's what I thought, that's how it sounded, that you were addressing other people's views.
If you want to move forward let me know.
Much love!
"I only hate your belief...."
Yeah? Who is committing sin now?
Thanks for highlighting this
J.
I don't think @marks is in agreement with me since the very verses you've quoted was quoted to me.
Whoever has suffered in the flesh, that is, in the body, has ceased from sin.
The believer is faced with two possibilities—sin or suffering.
On the one hand, he can choose to live like the unsaved people around him, sharing their sinful pleasures, and thus avoid persecution. Or he can live in purity and godliness, bearing the reproach of Christ, and suffer at the hands of the wicked.
James Guthrie, a martyr, said just before he was hanged, “Dear friends, pledge this cup of suffering as I have done, before you sin, for sin and suffering have been presented to me, and I have chosen the suffering part.”
When a believer deliberately chooses to suffer persecution as a Christian rather than to continue in a life of sin, he has ceased from sin.
This does not mean that he no longer commits acts of sin, but that the power of sin in his life has been broken. When a man suffers because he refuses to sin, he is no longer controlled by the will of the flesh.
He that hath suffered - a thing now past [ pathoon (G3958)]: Christ first, and in His person the believer: a general proposition.
Hath ceased , [ pepautai (G3973)] - ’has been made to cease;’ i:e., has obtained by His past and completed suffering a cessation from sin, which heretofore lay on him (Rom_6:6-11, especially 7). The Christian is by faith one with Christ: as Christ by death is judicially freed from sin, so the Christian who has in the person of Christ died has no more to do with it judicially, and ought have no more to do with it actually. "The flesh" is the sphere in which sin has place.
JFB
for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin: meaning either Christ, who having suffered in human nature for the sins of his people, whereby he has made satisfaction for them, is now clear of them; the sins that were imputed to him being took and bore away, finished and made an end of, and he justified from them, and freed from all the effects of them, and punishment for them, as from all the infirmities of human nature, from mortality and death: or the person that has suffered in and with Christ, his head and representative, which is all one as if he had suffered himself, in person; by virtue of which his sin ceases, and he ceases from being chargeable with it, as if he had never sinned; which is the case of every criminal, when he has suffered the penalty of the law for his crime: or else the person that is dead to sin, by virtue of the death of Christ, and, in imitation of it, who has been baptized into Christ's death, and planted in the likeness of it; whose old man is crucified with Christ, and he is dead with him; who has crucified the affections with the lusts, and through the Spirit has mortified the deeds of the body; which way the generality of interpreters go: such a man has ceased from sin; not from the being and indwelling of it in him; nor from the burden of it on him; nor from a continual war with it in him; nor from slips and falls by it, and into it; no, nor from it in the most solemn and religious services; but as from the guilt of it, and obligation to punishment by it, through the death of Christ; so from the servitude and dominion of it, through the power of divine grace, in consequence of Christ's death: or rather, the believer that suffers death in his body, for the sake of Christ, such an one immediately ceases from the very being of sin, and all commission of it; he becomes at once perfectly pure and holy, without spot or wrinkle, or any such thing; and a noble argument this is to meet death without fear, and to suffer it cheerfully and willingly, since the consequence of this will be an entire freedom from sin, than which nothing can be more desirable by a believer: to this agrees the Syriac version, which renders the words thus: "for whoever is dead in his body hath ceased from all sins"; but the Arabic version more fully confirms this sense, and is the best version of the text, and is this; "be ye armed with this (same) thought, that (not for) he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin"; that is, fortify your minds against all the fears of sufferings, and of death, for the sake of Christ, with this single thought; that he that has suffered martyrdom for Christ, in his body, or has suffered death for his sake, or dies in the Lord, is free from sin, and so from sorrow, and is the most happy person imaginable; so that this last clause is not a reason of the former, but points out, and is explanative of what that same mind or thought is Christians should arm themselves with, against the fears of death; and it is the best piece of armour for this service, a saint can make use of.
Gill.
Now, how do you explain the 2nd Aorist and the Perfect/Passive Tense in pauo?
πεπαυται
G3973
V-RPI-3S
παύω
to stop
παύω
paúō; fut. paúsō. To stop, pause, make an end. Used chiefly in the mid. paúomai, meaning to come to an end, take one's rest, a willing cessation (Luk_5:4). Contrast the pass. voice which denotes a forced cessation. Used in the act. voice in 1Pe_3:10, to cause to cease, in allusion to Psa_34:13-14. Intrans., to refrain, pause, leave off, followed by the gen. of the thing (1Pe_4:1, "hath ceased from sin"; Sept.: Exo_32:12; Jos_7:26). With the neg. particle ou (G3756), not (Act_5:42, "they ceased not to teach"; Act_6:13; Act_13:10; Act_20:31; Eph_1:16; Col_1:9; Heb_10:2). Followed by a part. (Act_21:32; Eph_1:16); with part. implied (Luk_11:1; Sept.: Gen_11:8; Gen_18:33; Gen_24:19, Gen_24:22); used in an absolute sense, to cease, come to an end (Luk_8:24; Act_20:1; 1Co_13:8; Sept.: Exo_9:33-34).
Deriv.: anapaúō (G373), to relax, rest inwardly but not necessarily as a result of the cessation of work; katapaúō (G2664), to rest.
Syn.: dialeípō (G1257), to leave an interval whether of space or time, to intermit, desist, cease; kopázō (G2869), to stop as a result of being tired, relax, subside, calm down; hēsucházō (G2270), to become quiet, still, at rest; katargéō (G2673), to render inactive, abolish.
Ant.: exakolouthéō (G1811), to follow out, continue; epiménō (G1961), to persist, continue on; epakolouthéō (G1872), to follow after; diateléō (G1300), to continue.
1 Peter 4:1d
by Grant Richison
Read Introduction to 1 Peter
“Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin.”
for he who has suffered in the flesh
By arming ourselves with the mind of Christ we will no doubt suffer the same suffering Jesus suffered. Jesus suffered in the body and so will the Christian. If we suffer as Jesus suffered, we cease from sin. When we identify with Christ’s suffering, we free ourselves from sin. God expects us to make a clean cut break with habitual sinning.
has ceased from sin
“Ceased” means to stop, to make an end. When we think like Jesus thought, our sinful thinking comes to an end. This verse does not say that the Christian has ceased completely from sinning for that would be sinless perfection. No Christian can reach a stage of sinless perfection but can come to a place of victory over sin.
This verse says that the Christian has ceased at a point in the past with the results going on (perfect tense). God gave us release from sin when we received Christ as Savior. God broke the power of sin at Christ’s death. We can translate “cease” as “has been made to cease.” We have been made to cease from sin in the death of Christ.
We do not fight for victory over sin because Christ has already won the victory. We fight a victory already won (Ro 6:6-11, esp. v7). God gave us release from sin by Christ’s final suffering for sin. We react to undeserved suffering as a saint, not a sinner. It is God who released us from sin. God broke the power of sin by Christ’s death.
Also, God did not free from sins (plural) but from “sin” (singular). Sin in the singular is the depraved capacity for sin that we received when born into this world. The potential for sin is always present in that nature because it never improves, never alters, or changes. It cannot improve by education or refinement.
PRINCIPLE:
Dead men do not sin.
APPLICATION:
We lose our tenderness toward Christ if we do not deal decisively with sin. He died to deal with sin and he dealt with it decisively on the cross. If we do not deal with it ourselves, sin will invade our daily relationship with him.
We deal with sin first in our mind, not by outward rite of religion. Our natural mind is dark and alienated from the life of God (Eph. 4:18). That makes us disingenuous with God. We are blind to our own wicked motivations until we deal with sin.
Some of us are so dull spiritually that we do not even recognize what springs from our sin capacity. Spiritual callousness sets in our soul, and we become immune to deal with deadly sin in our lives.
We cannot know the will of God while in this shape. We remain under the jurisdiction of the old taskmaster of the sin capacity. A Christian who gets out from under this taskmaster makes a clean cut break with the momentum of sin. To take orders from the old slave master is to act out of character like wearing a Halloween mask.
Do you think I take hamartia loosely or lightly, sinning with impunity?
What is the 2nd Aorist Billy?
And are you leaving, or "cutting out" the suffering/pascho altogether?
J.
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Well here's what the scripture does say on this matter:
1Co 5:1-6
It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, THAT the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
The bible says that the things which were written in the old testament concerning the ancient Israelites happened to them and were written down for OUR admonition as examples (allegories)…….so how did the Lord instruct the Israelites to act when there was sin in the camp? They were told to purge the sin out from the camp by stoning or otherwise “killing” (allegorically for the church) those who were sinning. And how much sin did there have to be before God judged the whole camp? I’ve met believers who were proud of themselves with a kind of spiritual pride for being “tolerant” of known sin in the church instead of trying to do something about it…exactly as that scripture above mentions being puffed up. How much sin is there in the camp today…the church at large is looking way too much like the world these days. Has the glory departed yet? Remember the glory departed from Israel and that was written for our example and admonition too. We need to reverence and fear the Lord and take Him seriously.
1Co 5:7-13
Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
We don’t’ get to make this up as we go along and bend things to fit our pet doctrines (if we do it’s at our peril)…but we need to bend and bring our own thoughts captive to the word of God…..we are the ones who need conforming to His word…..and these scriptures are clear.
Scripture also says elsewhere that if we KEEP ON WILFULLY SINNING there is no more sacrifice for sins. That means we would be putting ourselves in grave danger. And nobody can say how long the longsuffering of the Lord will put up with someone who continues to wilfully live in sin before the Spirit is grieved enough to depart that vessel.…fortunately the brother in question in the above scriptures, after being put out of fellowship (as a form of discipline for his good), repented, otherwise at some point he could have been a goner.
Having a righteous fear of the Lord is not our enemy, it’s like a spiritual weapon for our good.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
@Lizbeth
Sinless Perfection to many Christians is a heresy. But show that to me in Scripture. Where does God’s Word say that it is wrong to overcome sin?1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Galatians 5:24, John 5:14, John 8:11 all make it clear that God wants us to overcome sin in this life. Some try to play the Greek word game (Thinking they know better than the 47 translators on the King James Bible) to undo God’s Word because they don’t like what the Bible says. Others appear to ignore the verses (When twisting them to favor their sin and still be saved viewpoint is beyond their capability).
Anyways, to say we will always sin again is to willfully sin. It’s a declaration of future evil. To say we cannot stop sinning is a declaration that we are to willfully sin (so when the sin happens you will just be fulfilling your own words). Hebrews 10:26 says, “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,”.
If you are not on the path to putting away sin, and being holy and righteous, then you are on the path to justifying sin. It really is that simple. But God cannot agree with your sin. To justify a little bit of sin is no different than justifying larger amounts of sin.
Sinless Perfection to many Christians is a heresy. But show that to me in Scripture. Where does God’s Word say that it is wrong to overcome sin?1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Galatians 5:24, John 5:14, John 8:11 all make it clear that God wants us to overcome sin in this life. Some try to play the Greek word game (Thinking they know better than the 47 translators on the King James Bible) to undo God’s Word because they don’t like what the Bible says. Others appear to ignore the verses (When twisting them to favor their sin and still be saved viewpoint is beyond their capability).
Anyways, to say we will always sin again is to willfully sin. It’s a declaration of future evil. To say we cannot stop sinning is a declaration that we are to willfully sin (so when the sin happens you will just be fulfilling your own words). Hebrews 10:26 says, “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,”.
If you are not on the path to putting away sin, and being holy and righteous, then you are on the path to justifying sin. It really is that simple. But God cannot agree with your sin. To justify a little bit of sin is no different than justifying larger amounts of sin.
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Exactly! We don't do it, it is done to us.
I've pointed that out a couple of times but I don't think that @Bible Highlighter ever responded.
Much love!
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
If you know anything about Textual Criticism, you will know it is not good and it is tied to Modernism. You should not attempt to use the original languages to understand God’s Word when you don’t really know Biblical Greek. Nobody today knows Biblical Greek. You are only guessing and recent scholars are guessing. I am not saying that one cannot be right on some things involving the original languages at certain times, but the original languages should be a last resort, and the original languages should match up with what it says in English. If not, then you are claiming that all people who are trusting their Bible in English are deceived and cannot have the true knowledge of God’s Word without looking to the original languages. Even if you spoke, and wrote modern Greek, it is still different than Biblical Greek (Koine Greek). You don’t have an apostle Paul around to correct you on your Koine Greek. Nowhere does the Bible teach you that you must go back to some ancient language to understand God’s Word. God preserved His Word and spoke His Word to the people in their current language when it came to a New Covenant that He wanted them to know. God is not going to hold people accountable for not knowing Greek. But you play the Greek word game because you simply don‘t like what the Bible says in 1 Peter 4:1-2. Oh, but do you do that with 1 John 1:8, and Romans 7:14-24? Surely not because you like the idea of holding on to some kind of sin in this life. That is your belief and thus… you must enforce that belief upon the Scriptures to make it true. You need to pray and ask for God’s Spirit to understand the Scriptures. But that’s not possible for God to hear you if you have a mindset to justify some kind of wrong doing in saying that you must sin again (Based on your own thoughts and not the Bible). Basically you want me to believe God can agree with your sin and that He approves of those who use 1 John 1:8 and Romans 7:14-24 in that they are slaves to their sin (on occasion and not habitually). But again… justifying a little bit of sin is no different than doing lots of sin all the time. God cannot agree with your sin or your mindset that says you must sin again (Because you cannot help it). With God… all things are possible. So God can help you to crucify the affections and lusts. But do you want that? Remember what happened to the lukewarm church in Revelation.
If you want to take the gamble with your soul on justifying a little bit of sin, then that is your choice. Just know that I warned you this day to heed the Scriptures (1 Peter 4:1-2, Galatians 5:24, 2 Corinthians 7:1, John 5:14, John 8:11). Your rejection of them will not sit well with the Lord God almighty. Any believer who has a pure heart and who seeks to do well with God will not justify sin on any level. They will not want to hold on to any sin in this life and or say it is inevitable that they must sin again.
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Hebrews 12:10-11 KJV
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
It was to the saving of his soul, not a hoop he had to jump through to "remain saved".
If our salvation is contingent on our performance/behavior, that we can thank ourselves for behaving well enough to "remain saved".
God promises to chasten (train as you train a child) His children, and He tells us His chastening works.
Trust Him.
Much love!
It was scholars who translated the KJV, remember.
Don't disparage knowledge, and particularly when it impacts what you think. Refusing to receive knowledge because it impacts your conclusions isn't healthy.
Much love!
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
The Scriptures will be fulfilled (See: Luke 21:22).
God preserved His words in a book for us today. It’s a part of the fulfillment in Psalms 12:6-7, and Isaiah 34:16.
One either has found the book of the LORD or they are trying to piece one together based on their own limited and amateur understanding. Also, recent scholars are tied to Modernism and Catholicism. The King James Bible was almost destroyed by Catholics when one of their men (Guy Fawkes) tried to take out a giant portion of the city with a super bomb (Thereby killing King James and his translation). The King James Bible was the first bible to truly reach the common man because of the success of the printing process. Granted, I think it is a must to use Modern Translations because the King James is written in archaic language or 1600’s English, but one cannot completely trust Modern bibles because there are many changes for the worse and not for the better. But a person needs to have a final word of authority. The original languages cannot be your authority. What manuscripts are you going by? Not all Alexandrian manuscripts are the same. God’s Word should be perfect and we should be able to find that perfect Word. If His words are not perfectly preserved for us, then we become the arbiters of truth determining what God said and did not say in His Word.
Point in case example: When we have a personal belief we hold to (that is self motivated)…. we can then make the Scriptures say whatever we want them to say based on our personal selfish belief. Sin is always selfish. Doing what God says is selfless. Justifying sin by going to the original languages in an attempt to undo what 1 Peter 4:1-2 is a clear attempt at cheating to bend the Scriptures to one own’s selfish belief to justify sin (When one does not like what the Bible says in English).
God preserved His words in a book for us today. It’s a part of the fulfillment in Psalms 12:6-7, and Isaiah 34:16.
One either has found the book of the LORD or they are trying to piece one together based on their own limited and amateur understanding. Also, recent scholars are tied to Modernism and Catholicism. The King James Bible was almost destroyed by Catholics when one of their men (Guy Fawkes) tried to take out a giant portion of the city with a super bomb (Thereby killing King James and his translation). The King James Bible was the first bible to truly reach the common man because of the success of the printing process. Granted, I think it is a must to use Modern Translations because the King James is written in archaic language or 1600’s English, but one cannot completely trust Modern bibles because there are many changes for the worse and not for the better. But a person needs to have a final word of authority. The original languages cannot be your authority. What manuscripts are you going by? Not all Alexandrian manuscripts are the same. God’s Word should be perfect and we should be able to find that perfect Word. If His words are not perfectly preserved for us, then we become the arbiters of truth determining what God said and did not say in His Word.
Point in case example: When we have a personal belief we hold to (that is self motivated)…. we can then make the Scriptures say whatever we want them to say based on our personal selfish belief. Sin is always selfish. Doing what God says is selfless. Justifying sin by going to the original languages in an attempt to undo what 1 Peter 4:1-2 is a clear attempt at cheating to bend the Scriptures to one own’s selfish belief to justify sin (When one does not like what the Bible says in English).
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You keep bringing up this passage, and I've gone through it a few times now for you, and you've never responded to my reply other than to generically disparage my conclusions without any kind of exegesis.
Would you exegete the passage so we can see how it teaches that rebirth is lost when someone commits a sin?
Thank you!
Much love!
I recommend the Majority Manuscript, which is essentially identical to the Textus Receptus, but has several thousands more witnesses. Of course, choosing to go with the TR over the Critical text is itself a matter of Textual Criticism.
Much love!
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Serious Sin Can Separate Us From GOD Verses:
[God said to Adam,]
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Genesis 2:17).
[Eve said to the serpent,]
"But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. (Genesis 3:3).
And the serpent said unto the woman,
"Ye shall not surely die." (Genesis 3:4).
"...she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked..." (Genesis 3:6-7).
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." (Romans 5:12).
"For the wages of sin is death..." (Romans 6:23).
"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear." (Isaiah 59:2).
“...whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.” (Matthew 5:22).
28 “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” (Matthew 5:28-30).
"But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul." (Proverbs 6:32).
“But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matthew 6:15).
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21)
Important Note: If you were to look at 1 Thessalonians 4:3 you would learn that the will of God (i.e. the Father) is to be holy or it is our sanctification; And Hebrews 12:14 says, without holiness no man shall see the Lord.
“22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’” (Matthew 7:22-23 ESV).
“26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”
(Matthew 7:26-27).
“15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:15-20).
"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." (Hebrews 10:26).
"he that commits sin is of the devil." (1 John 3:8).
"everyone who does evil hates the light." (John 3:20).
"Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee." (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).
6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:6-7).
"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4).
"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).
"He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now." (1 John 2:9).
"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10).
41 "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers,
42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear." (Matthew 13:41-43 ESV).
“For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.” (Matthew 12:37).
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).
3 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing,..." (1 Timothy 6:3-4).
"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble."
(James 4:6).
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." (Romans 11:21-22).
16 "There is a sin unto death..."
17 "...and there is a sin not unto death." (1 John 5:16-17).
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8).
19 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21).
5 "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affe
ction, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them." (Colossians 3:5-7).
5 “...God;
6 ...will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law” (Romans 2:5-12).
“But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.” (Ezekiel 18:24).
9 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. “ (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).
“Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2:17).
"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).
“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).
[God said to Adam,]
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Genesis 2:17).
[Eve said to the serpent,]
"But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. (Genesis 3:3).
And the serpent said unto the woman,
"Ye shall not surely die." (Genesis 3:4).
"...she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked..." (Genesis 3:6-7).
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." (Romans 5:12).
"For the wages of sin is death..." (Romans 6:23).
"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear." (Isaiah 59:2).
“...whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.” (Matthew 5:22).
28 “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” (Matthew 5:28-30).
"But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul." (Proverbs 6:32).
“But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matthew 6:15).
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21)
Important Note: If you were to look at 1 Thessalonians 4:3 you would learn that the will of God (i.e. the Father) is to be holy or it is our sanctification; And Hebrews 12:14 says, without holiness no man shall see the Lord.
“22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’” (Matthew 7:22-23 ESV).
“26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”
(Matthew 7:26-27).
“15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:15-20).
"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." (Hebrews 10:26).
"he that commits sin is of the devil." (1 John 3:8).
"everyone who does evil hates the light." (John 3:20).
"Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee." (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).
6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:6-7).
"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4).
"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).
"He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now." (1 John 2:9).
"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10).
41 "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers,
42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear." (Matthew 13:41-43 ESV).
“For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.” (Matthew 12:37).
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).
3 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing,..." (1 Timothy 6:3-4).
"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble."
(James 4:6).
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." (Romans 11:21-22).
16 "There is a sin unto death..."
17 "...and there is a sin not unto death." (1 John 5:16-17).
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8).
19 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21).
5 "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affe
ction, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them." (Colossians 3:5-7).
5 “...God;
6 ...will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law” (Romans 2:5-12).
“But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.” (Ezekiel 18:24).
9 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. “ (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).
“Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2:17).
"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).
“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
To say that one does not endanger or lose salvation by sin is to deny Scripture itself. Jesus warned about how looking upon a woman in lust can cause our bodies to be cast into hell bodily. Some falsely believe you have to live in habitual sin in order to be condemned by that particular sin. However….
So if one is saying they can abide in sin and not lose salvation is going against Scripture and they are justifying sin or leading others to do so by their teaching. This is to remain as a sinner (defending sin on some level).
John 9:31 says:
“Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.”
#1. Numbers 35:16-18 says it only takes one act of murder to be a murderer; And Leviticus 20:10 says it only takes one act of adultery to be an adulterer.
#2. Jesus Himself regarded just looking at a woman once as an act of adultery (Matthew 5:28).
#3. John says, "No murderer has eternal life abiding in them." (1 John 3:15).
#4. Proverbs 6:32 says "Whosoever commits adultery with a woman lacks understanding: he that does it destroys his own soul."
#5. David needed to confess of his sin in order to be forgiven (See Psalms 51).
#6. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
#7. Revelation 21:8 says, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Murderers and whoremongers will be cast into the lake of fire. All liars will be cast into the lake of fire. ALL liars, and not just some. NO murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15).
So if one is saying they can abide in sin and not lose salvation is going against Scripture and they are justifying sin or leading others to do so by their teaching. This is to remain as a sinner (defending sin on some level).
John 9:31 says:
“Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.”
- Jan 27, 2021
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People who speak against sin are accused of being arrogant or self-righteous.
Is the Bible arrogant when it says He who sins is of the devil?
Hyper grace is making bank today because people are saying with their money, "Tell me I can still lust sometimes and hold bitterness and unforgiveness in my heart and still make it to heaven. Ill quote you, buy your commentaries, listen to your sermons, follow you on social media. But don't you dare tell me I have to be holy and obey Jesus' commands. That's arrogant and self righteous and Im not tryin to hear it "
Hyper grace theologians are making bank off our unwillingness to take the Bible seriously when it comes to sin.
We are in the last days when grace is being turned to lasciviousness and people no longer want to hear the truth.
We will gladly line up to accept any theology, song, commentary, or scholar that tells us God loves us so much that He overlooks our sin.
But if grace is not teaching us to deny ungodliness as the Word says, its not true grace.
We do zero percent of what we believe is impossible. When I believed that sin was an immovable mountain, then it was and I couldnt stop looking at porn. But when I actually read the Word for myself, I knew every sin must go and Jesus gave me victory over that thing.
God is not limited by our tendency to sin. We limit ourselves when we believe that we sin every day every way and that's something we just have to accept till we die.
Is the Bible arrogant when it says He who sins is of the devil?
Hyper grace is making bank today because people are saying with their money, "Tell me I can still lust sometimes and hold bitterness and unforgiveness in my heart and still make it to heaven. Ill quote you, buy your commentaries, listen to your sermons, follow you on social media. But don't you dare tell me I have to be holy and obey Jesus' commands. That's arrogant and self righteous and Im not tryin to hear it "
Hyper grace theologians are making bank off our unwillingness to take the Bible seriously when it comes to sin.
We are in the last days when grace is being turned to lasciviousness and people no longer want to hear the truth.
We will gladly line up to accept any theology, song, commentary, or scholar that tells us God loves us so much that He overlooks our sin.
But if grace is not teaching us to deny ungodliness as the Word says, its not true grace.
We do zero percent of what we believe is impossible. When I believed that sin was an immovable mountain, then it was and I couldnt stop looking at porn. But when I actually read the Word for myself, I knew every sin must go and Jesus gave me victory over that thing.
God is not limited by our tendency to sin. We limit ourselves when we believe that we sin every day every way and that's something we just have to accept till we die.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Well said, Wynona.
May God bless you for taking a stand for God and His Word (Which is good and right).
BTW ~ I am glad God gave you the victory. Praise be unto the Lord Jesus Christ and His good ways.
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