The Godly Heresy of Sinless Perfectionism

[Bible Highlighter]

That's not what it says. I keep finding this in your assertions, that's why I keep asking that you post the verses themselves, and underline or bold or something where in the verse you are seeing what you assert.

Romans 6:17-18 KJV
17) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

This verse does not say you can become slaves to righteousness, it says, in the KJV, thgat ye became the servants (slaves) of righteousness. This is something that happens when you are immersed into Jesus Christ's death and burial.

My apologies. I did read that wrong. You are correct on this one particular point.
It does say ye became (past tense) the servants (slaves) of righteousness.
They obeyed that doctrine (the gospel of grace) and just like Abraham believed the promise and it was accounted to him as righteousness (Genesis 15:6), so we also have to believe in Jesus or in the faith of Christ that says: “but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:” (Philippians 3:9). This includes us believing the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 that says, “I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” (1 Corinthians 15:3-4).

But we also have to realize that grace is teaching us to live righteously and godly, too. For… “the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;” (Titus 2:11-12).

The gospel calls us (”Whereunto he called you by our gospel“ 2 Thess. 2:14). This call is mentioned in verse 13 (2 Thess. 2:13). It says: “God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

So salvation is not absent of the Sanctification of the Spirit to live a holy life. If one is not being sanctified by the Spirit, they are not answering the call of the gospel in that God has chosen them to salvation through the sanctification of the Spirit (along with a belief of the truth). Sanctification of the Spirit is a part of salvation. It’s salvific in regards to entering the Kingdom.

You see that you cannot become unborn if you sin. Meaning, you believe you can sin and still be saved on some level. But again, Jesus warned us about how certain sins can destroy our souls (See: Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46). I can just quote the verses, but I am hoping you will read them and or re-quote them if you feel you disagree with what they say. I should not always have to quote the actual whole words of a verse or passage in order for you to discuss it.

I say this because there are… “ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness,” (Jude 1:4) (KJB).
The NIV says: “ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality” (Jude 1:4) (NIV).
Is not the idea of denying the words of Jesus like in Matthew 5:28-30 speaking of these types of people in Jude 1:4?

Matthew 5:28-30

28 “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.​

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.​

30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.”​

So here is the rub. So although you are called a servant (slave) to righteousness in the past tense by obeying the doctrine (Which is most likely the gospel message) and or believing in Jesus for salvation (Whereby He imputes righteousness to us), that does not mean that a believer will remain a slave to righteousness if they sin or they justify sin in some way by a false interpretation to make an excuse to sin based on a faulty interpretation on 1 John 1:8, and Romans 7:14-24.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Romans 6:11 KJV
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

He's just told us to reckon ourselves dead to sin, and alive to God, and not because we are to believe a lie.

Romans 6:5-6 KJV
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

It's not a lie, because we've been crucified with Him, for the purpose of destroying the body of sin - removing it's power, so we don't continue to serve sin.

Then why did you give a “like” to the OP (the original post of this thread) in that he was against Sinless Perfection? If you believe we don’t continue to serve sin then why did you approve of Johann’s stand against Sinless Perfection? This means you are for continuing to serve sin if you are against Sinless Perfection (as the Bible teaches - 1 Peter 4:1-2, Hebrews 13:20-21, Colossians 4:12).

You also believe you don’t lose salvation when you sin. So this means you are telling others that they are saved even if they sin. How do you not see this as turning God’s grace into a license for immorality is beyond me (See again Jude 1:4). For even this thread and another one you made it sound like keeping the 1st greatest commandment is not possible by asking posters if they are keeping this command (as if to suggest they are not keeping it). Yet, our faith is not built on any one person (with us looking by sight), but it is built upon the Word of God (Which is by faith or sight unseen).

Romans 6:7 KJV
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

And in fact, we've been freed from sin. That's why we are to think of ourselves as being dead to sin.

Romans 6:12-14 KJV
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13) Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

So then don't yield yourself to sin, but to God. You are alive from among the dead ones, you are now alive unto God, so live that way.

We are crucified with Christ, we are dead to sin and alive unto God, we were slaves of sin, but now we are slaves of righteousness.

We are a new creation, created according to God (patterned after Him) in righteousness and true holiness.

Romans 7:20 KJV
20) Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

This is what changed. We have become dead to sin, and alive to God. We are a new creation, the spirit child of God. The outer man serves sin, the inner man serves God. The flesh is corrupt by sin, the spirit is alive in Christ. We've been reborn.

Much love!

You say we were slaves to sin, and then you contradict yourself and say that Paul is still a slave to sin as a Christian in Romans 7:14-24.
Sin is what controlled Paul in Romans 7:14-24 when he was under the Old Law as a Pharisee. It is a sin to go back and try to be under all 613 laws of Moses because it would be a denial of Christ’s sacrifice among other problems. Galatians 5:4 says if you seek to be justified by the Law (Laws of Moses) you have fallen from grace. Paul is not talking about the Laws of Christ under the New Covenant. The Law has changed (Hebrews 7:12).

You fail to understand that Romans 6:13 in “yielding your members (body parts) to righteousness to God” is not possible for you if you believe you can also be a slave to sin like Paul once was in Romans 7:14-24 (When he was a Pharisee under the Old Law when he was Saul). How do you not see this as turning God’s goodness of His grace as an excuse to do evil is beyond me. If sin is controlling you, it’s because you have not been set free by Jesus Christ.

We are changed spiritually in the new birth.

Colossians 2:11-12 says:

11 “In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:​

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”​

Romans 6:4-5 says:

4 ”….even so we also should walk in newness of life.​

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:”​

Being in the likeness of his resurrection is walking in newness of life.
But you are against Sinless Perfection, and so it shoots down walking in newness of life (Instead of holding on to the old man with your excuse to sin interpretation involving Romans 7:14-24).

We are changed in the new birth whereby we are to keep God’s laws.

Ezekiel 36:26-27

26 ”A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.​

27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”​

 

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This is a very interesting question. Will you only stop sinning upon pain of death?

We are recreated for holiness and righteousness, will you be satisfied with less than that?

The Law was the negative motivation, grace is the positive motivation. The Law demanded righteousness upon pain of death, grace offers righteousness in the path of life.

Much love!

Even Christians face the pain of death in being persecuted for Christ.
One of my favorite scenes in a Christian film that I love is when Polycarp is martyred for his faith.
I also hope to share in the sufferings of Christ in the Lord's timing (When I have finished my race and have fought the good fight of faith).
Now… to be clear: I hope for this if it is God’s will and if God knows I can do so by His power.

Trailer:

Full Movie at Christian Movies Channel:

The Law threatened your physical existence.
If we break God's laws now, in most cases, our physical existence is not threatened, but we will reap what we sow (even if we confess of our sins to be forgiven of our sins). But that does not mean a Christian can sin and still be saved on any level. If a Christian sins, and they don't repent, they abide in spiritual death just like the prodigal son did. Also see James 5:19-20.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

We are under the "law of love", the highest and most demanding law of all.

And this is not the old way of love, but the new way, A new commandment I give you, to love each other as I have loved you". No more just loving in the human way, we are to love each other the way Jesus loved us. And I say, "loved", not "loves", because I'm referring to the love Jesus gave to man in giving living and then giving His life entirely for us. Entirely! Do you realize what that means?

At all times . . . living out your commitment towards others, towards their life and well being and nurture and growth and in every other way there can be.

And this love will encompass all the law and the prophets, we don't even have to know the lists of commandments if we live in perfect love.

We know that to steal is not love. Thinking evil of others is not love. But loving has nothing to do with maintaining observance of any of these. These tell us what is and isn't love, but we can't love by doing them. We only do them if we already love.

What's with your insistence that I say sin is OK? What's with your insistence that I don't believe passages in the Bible? Where is that coming from? If anything, aren't I simply mistaken? If in fact I am? I don't think I am, but even so it's a lot different from your claims of faithlessness?

Why do you come down on that side? Why do you impugn my faith, and my Bible reading, when you could think of me as mistaken? Do you see what I'm saying here?

Love believes all things, hopes all things, why do you not hope the best for me, instead of thinking the worst of me?

Does this help to show how I think of righteousness? Fulfilling love. If that is done, all else will be done.

Much love!

Because you say you don’t become unborn (Lose salvation or endanger your salvation) when you sin. You also gave a “like” to the OP in that it is against Sinless Perfection (Which is going against the Bible’s teaching on overcoming sin in this life - 1 Peter 4:1-2).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It was part of a description that included several elements, and was not intended to be a commentary on you. I'm sorry if it came across that way. Just to say that there is a lot involved in those simple words, "loving God".

I didn't assume you did or didn't know or agree or anything with any of the parts of my description, just writing out my description.

Much love!

Again, loving others will not help you if you believe and teach that sinning does not make a believer to face spiritual death. Jesus taught this in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

We should discuss this passage.

Much love!

I already laid forth my case of what Romans 7:14-24 and I know you reject it because you prefer the idea that you can sin and still be saved on some level (i.e. you say that you don’t become unborn by sin - implying you can sin and still be saved or that you don’t lose salvation by sin). The only way you can change your understanding on Romans 7:14-24 is to become born again spiritually whereby you will not justify sin. God sets our hearts to become brand new whereby they will not set out to do any wrong and they will not refuse to see those verses in the Bible that warns about how certain sins can destroy our souls (Which is a denial of basic morality). My discussing Romans 7:14-24 will not help you if you are bent on seeing it the wrong way (based on your own carnal selfish thinking to justify the idea that you can sin and still be saved on some level).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

1 Peter 4:1-2 KJV
1) Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2) That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

"hath ceased from sin", hath ceased is written in the Greek "Passive Voice". This distinction doesn't carry through into English without including extra words.

Greek Verbs (Shorter Definitions)

Passive Voice
Grammatical voice indicates whether the subject is the performer of the action of the verb (active voice), or the subject is the recipient of the action (passive voice). If the subject of the sentence is being acted upon, then the verb is referred to as being in the passive voice.

For example: "Jesus ... was baptized by John in the Jordan" (Mark 1:9). "Jesus" is the subject of the sentence, but in this case He is being acted upon (i.e. He is the recipient of the action), therefore the verb is said to be in the "Passive Voice".

1) Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

The one who has suffered has received the affect of being acted upon in such a way as to cause that one to cease from sin.

This is paralleled in Hebrews 12,

Hebrews 12:5-11 KJV
5) And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

God's true children will be chastised (train as one trains a child). God's chastisement is that we might be partakers of His holiness, and it does yield the fruit of righteousness to those who are put through it's routines of rigorous training.

Much love!

So if you believe you can cease from sin then why did you give a ”like” rep to the OP on their denial of Sinless Perfection?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't know you even know what I believe, so far I'm seeing you address me for arguments that I don't offer. But to answer you best I can, yes, ceasing from sin is possible, but you won't know whether you truly have or not, because you don't know yourself well enough. The Bible shows that while we remain in this flesh, this flesh remains against us, so the conflict isn't over until our physical transformation.

If we walk in the Spirit, we do not sin. If we do sin, we have an advocate. We we continue is sin, we will be chastised, which will result in the the peaceable fruits of righteousness.

I think most of us have a long way to go towards recognizing the fleshiness in our lives that is in fact sin. I think there are many ways we fail to trust in God, and fail to act as we should, that we are unaware of their significance because we are so used to it. Our minds need to be renewed.

I find the longer I'm with Jesus, the more I come to understand how things I didn't see as sinful in years past are truly sinful and fleshy. Keep that part in mind, fleshy. Unspiritual. Many things people do that they don't recognize that this is flesh, and not "eternal life", life that is outside this world. We are reborn the spirit children of God, while living in our original fleshy body.

Did you see my post on Romans? It is no more I that do it? This is a key part of Scripture, and knowing what God has done for us.

Much love!

You criticized me and another poster in another thread about whether or not we keep the 1st greatest commandment. I have heard these types of questions before by those who believe they can sin and still be saved. You also gave a “like” rep to the OP that is against Sinless Perfection (with an article explaining it). So if you truly are for the belief in ceasing from sin, then you would not have given a like rep to the OP and you would not question your fellow servant if they are keeping God’s command (as if to suggest they cannot keep God’s commands). You also believe you don’t become unborn if you sin (Suggesting you can sin and still be saved or you don’t lose salvation by sin - which is contrary to Scripture - Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46). Remember, it only took one sin and not many sins for Adam to cause the fall to happen. It only took one sin each for Ananias and Sapphira to be condemned. In fact, your very interpretation on Romans 7:14-24 is a belief that you are still saved even if you struggle with sin (i.e. you are a slave to sin). Romans 7:14-24 does not paint the picture of a person of one who is a slave to righteousness. It paints the picture of a person who is a slave to their sin. Jesus says if you sin, you are a slave to sin (John 8:34).

 

[bbyrd009]

"its like this and like that and like this" and uh

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, I believe that if we sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, He Who justifies us, and does not condemn us.

This is turning God’s grace into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4).
God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).
Jesus warned about how sin can destroy our souls (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Matthew 25:31-46).
So sinning is only in view of our past life and or if we repent (Seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus over our sin) and we forsake such sins. Proverbs 28:13 basically says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. Check the verse for yourself.

And apparently you believe you move in and out of salvation as frequently as you disbelieve God's providence for a moment, or you become irritated with the one you are to be loving, or you become impatient (really, same as #1), when your behavior or your thoughts become fleshy, you cease being born again. Is that correct? If not, how would you restate this?

Much love!

We can move in and out of salvation because that is what the Bible teaches plainly (of which you deny because you don’t like that teaching in God’s Word). This teaching is made clear in the Parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15), and in James 5:19-20. You have to twist these words in Scripture to say otherwise (Because you prefer a more comforting message). You have to become born again spiritually to be able to see it. This is if you truly seek forgiveness of your sins with the LORD and not in attempt to justify sin.

 

[bbyrd009]

if these pukes give you a quesy feeling, reader, it is bc they are Esau, whom God hated...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Believers must test everything with the Word of God.
Going off our feelings or our heart alone is not a good indication of whether or not we are of the truth.
We need to be born again spiritually whereby we will not have a mindset to justify sin.
We justified sin as a part of our old life. So if a person is continuing to do so… they have not crucified the old man.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@marks

You believe you don’t lose salvation if you sin.
But Paul says, “Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid.” (Romans 6:1-2) (KJB).
So you are saying grace still abounds even if you continue in sin (on some level) because you don’t believe sin separates you from God.

 

[RLT63]

I already laid forth my case of what Romans 7:14-24 and I know you reject it because you prefer the idea that you can sin and still be saved on some level (i.e. you say that you don’t become unborn by sin - implying you can sin and still be saved or that you don’t lose salvation by sin). The only way you can change your understanding on Romans 7:14-24 is to become born again spiritually whereby you will not justify sin. God sets our hearts to become brand new whereby they will not set out to do any wrong and they will not refuse to see those verses in the Bible that warns about how certain sins can destroy our souls (Which is a denial of basic morality). My discussing Romans 7:14-24 will not help you if you are bent on seeing it the wrong way (based on your own carnal selfish thinking to justify the idea that you can sin and still be saved on some level).

If you think you can live a sinless life when you just posted the scripture that says even thinking about having sex is the same as doing it you are self deceived. There is only one man that lived a sinless life and that was Jesus. Even Paul said he failed to do the good that he wanted and that he did what he didn’t want to do. So you equate yourself with Jesus? You never even think about sinning? You have no sins to confess to God?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If you think you can live a sinless life when you just posted the scripture that says even thinking about having sex is the same as doing it you are self deceived. There is only one man that lived a sinless life and that was Jesus. Even Paul said he failed to do the good that he wanted and that he did what he didn’t want to do. So you equate yourself with Jesus? You never even think about sinning? You have no sins to confess to God?

Every Christian has sinned as a part of their old life. Grace is what can wipe out their past sins. Believers can even stumble on occasion on their road to recovery in overcoming sin in this life.

A drunk can overcome his demon in the bottle by a drug program even. Can he stumble on his road to recovery? Sure, but that stumbling does not define his ultimate final success in overcoming his sin of alcoholism at a future point in his life.

Also, it has nothing to do with me but it has to do with what the Scriptures say. Try reading several times in prayer 2 Corinthians 7:1, 2 Peter 4:1-2, and Galatians 5:24. Don’t speak against these parts of Scripture. Just read them and believe them.

 

[RLT63]

Every Christian has sinned as a part of their old life. Grace is what can wipe out their past sins. Believers can even stumble on occasion on their road to recovery in overcoming sin in this life.

A drunk can overcome his demon in the bottle by a drug program even. Can he stumble on his road to recovery? Sure, but that stumbling does not define his ultimate final success in overcoming his sin of alcoholism at a future point in his life.

Also, it has nothing to do with me but it has to do with what the Scriptures say. Try reading several times in prayer 2 Corinthians 7:1, 2 Peter 4:1-2, and Galatians 5:24. Don’t speak against these parts of Scripture. Just read them and believe them.

Read 1John 1:8-10. Don’t speak against it just read it and believe

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Read 1John 1:8-10. Don’t speak against it just read it and believe

Then you have a contradiction in the Bible. This is not possible.

Think.

Can God agree with your sin?
If you take the “we must sin” interpretation, then you contradicted toms of verses in the Bible and you have buried your moral compass. But there is hope.

Isaiah 55:7
“Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.”

 

[RLT63]

Then you have a contradiction in the Bible. This is not possible.

Think.

Can God agree with your sin?
If you take the “we must sin” interpretation, then you contradicted toms of verses in the Bible and you have buried your moral compass. But there is hope.

Isaiah 55:7
“Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.”

I didn’t write 1 John. Are you just going to dismiss what it says because it contradicts you? Chapter one doesn’t contradict scripture it contradicts you

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I didn’t write 1 John. Are you just going to dismiss what it says because it contradicts you? Chapter one doesn’t contradict scripture it contradicts you

Proverbs 30:20 says:
“Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness.”

Isaiah 5:20
“Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!”

Malachi 2:17 AMP
“You have wearied the LORD with your words. But you say, “In what way have we wearied Him?” In that you say, “Everyone who does evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and He delights in them,” or [by asking], “Where is the God of justice?”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I didn’t write 1 John. Are you just going to dismiss what it says because it contradicts you? Chapter one doesn’t contradict scripture it contradicts you

What is helpful in understanding 1 John 1:8 is looking at its immediate context. 1 John 1:10 says if we say we have not sinned. 1 John 1:10 switches gears from 1 John 1:8 in regards to time; John talks about the declaration on committing sin in verse 8 (which is present tense) to a declaration on committing sin being a past declaration (with verse 10). Verse 10 is saying there are people who said they have not sinned (past tense). This is clearly a gnostic belief. Why? Well, most believers today hold to the idea that they have sinned as a part of their old life before coming to Christ (Regardless of whether they are “OSAS,” a “Sin and still be saved” type believer, or a “Conditional Salvationist”). So this clearly is a “gnostic belief” that John was warning the brethren about (See 1 John 2:26). 1 John 1:8 is a present declaration of sin. It is saying if we say we have no sin when we do sin (present tense). This has to be the interpretative understanding of this verse because 1 John 2:4 says if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are a liar and the truth is not in us. The OSAS's interpretation on 1 John 1:8 does not work because it conflicts with a normal reading on 1 John 2:3-4. You cannot always be in sin (breaking God's commands) as a part of 1 John 1:8 and yet also fulfill 1 John 2:3 that says we can have an assurance of knowing Him if we keep His commandments. Especially when 1 John 2:4 says we are a liar and the truth is not in us if we break his commandments. In other words, if the OSAS interpretation on 1 John 1:8 was true, then I would be damned if I do by obeying God's commands (1 John 1:8) and yet I would be damned if I don't by not obeying God's commands (1 John 2:4).

In fact, the New English Translation says this for 1 John 1:8,

"If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8 NET).​

In other words, this verse is saying that if a person sins and says they do not bear the guilt of sin (in the sense that they will not have to face any wrath or Judgment from God over their sin) then they would be deceiving themselves and the truth would not be in them. This is exactly what the Eternal Security proposes. They are saying that they do not bear the guilt of any sin (destruction of their soul and body in hell fire) if they do sin because they believe their future sins are paid for by Jesus. They are saying, they do not bear the guilt or the punishment of sin at the final Judgment because of their belief on Jesus. In short, 1 John 1:8 is a denial of the existence of sin on some level. “If we say we have no sin (in the sense that it does not exist) we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8). Christian Scientists think sin is an illusion and does not exist at all. So this verse would apply to them. Eternal Security Proponents and those who deny that “Sin Can Separate a Believer from God” deny the existence of sin partially. They believe sin exists physically but they do not believe sin exists for them on a spiritual level because Jesus has forgiven them of all their sin by their belief on Jesus. In fact, to see just how silly your argument actually is for 1 John 1:8, you would have to believe that you are sinning right now at this very moment in order for such a verse to be true because 1 John 1:8 is speaking in the present tense.

John prescribes that we do not think that sin is an illusion, and we are automatically saved, but John is telling us to "sin not" and go to our advocate Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1), and confess our sins so as to be forgiven of sin and to be cleansed of all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). How can you confess and be forgiven of sin if all your future sin is paid for? It makes no sense.

You can say that John is talking about a break of fellowship by one's sins and not a loss of salvation, but that would not be consistent with Scripture. 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life.