The Flawed Reasoning Of Total Depravity

[Nancy]

That's what I was saying. Thanks.

Sry...wasn't sure ♥

 

[Phoneman777]

I agree. Thanks.

So, are you a Quaker? LOL

 

[SkyWriting]

So, are you a Quaker? LOL

Yes, they are part of my home Church's history.
A couple of splits back with them on the conservative side
and me on the "looney left."

 

[Phoneman777]

Yes, they are part of my home Church's history.
A couple of splits back with them on the conservative side
and me on the "looney left."

Wait, did you change you name? Whathappended to Masterson?

 

[Nancy]

Wait, did you change you name? Whathappended to Masterson?

Hm, I thought we could not change our name once we choose it??!

 

[Phoneman777]

Hm, I thought we could not change our name once we choose it??!

Unless he's got TWO accounts with the same pic.

 

[Nancy]

Unless he's got TWO accounts with the same pic.

 

[Laish]

Hm, I thought we could not change our name once we choose it??!

Perhaps the mod staff allowed him to change it. Maybe his first screen name was his real name .
If you click the blank spot to the right of word “said” in the quote bar it will take you to the post you quoted it has his new name so it’s the same guy different name .
Blessings
Bill

 

[Preacher4Truth]

When a group of people complicate the simplest of verses, look out...

Nope. When we give the plain and true sense you cannot see it and call it complicated. That's a fact.

 

[marks]

One is to show His Glory to all . It’s not a thing of luck or about us it’s all about Him .
He is our Lord , our King .

1 Corinthians 1:26 For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; 27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, 28 and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, 29 so that no man may boast before God.30 but by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

It has nothing to do with us or any quality that we may possess.
God chose the least of this word to demonstrate it’s not about man or our wisdom.
He also called us to worship Him, to pray to Him ,spread the Gospel, feed the hungry, cloth the poor, visit and tend to the sick , and visit those in jail . I could go on but ya get the idea. This is also something out of desire if we are in Him this will be in us .
Hope that answers your question.
If not tell me .
Blessings
Bill

Hi Bill,

So if I'm understanding you correctly, then, God's criteria for whom He chose for redemption was that He picked least esteemed, the weakest, the most foolish ones? Is that correct?

Much love!
Mark

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Hi Bill,

So if I'm understanding you correctly, then, God's criteria for whom He chose for redemption was that He picked least esteemed, the weakest, the most foolish ones? Is that correct?

Nope, not always, and that is not a list of criteria or all who fall under said would be saved.

Read the text.

It doesn't say "...not aNY..." but "...not MANY..." (were wise, powerful, noble &c).

But, he does choose these as well as is witnessed throughout history, and as one made others aware when he preached that he thanked God for the letter "M" because he was rich, noble, and noted for his wisdom, but elected to salvation. If it said "not any..." then we'd have a different story altogether, but it doesn't, it says "...not many..."

The point is the elect are chosen according to God's plan and purpose, not according to anything good or bad in themselves. Ephesians 1; Romans 9 &c.

Note here from John Gill:

"how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble are called. The apostle does not say that there were none of the wise, the mighty, and noble called; for there were Crispus, and Sosthenes, rulers of the synagogue, and Gains a rich hospitable man, and Erastus the chamberlain of the city, and it may be some others of a like or better figure in life; but there were not many of them; instances of this kind are but few recorded in the Scripture; as Joseph of Arimathea a rich counsellor, Paulus Sergius a Roman deputy, Dionysius the Areopagite, and some in Caesar's palace; which show that nobility, riches, and learning, as they do not at all contribute towards a man's salvation, so neither can they hinder it where grace takes place; but, generally speaking, God has thought fit, for wise reasons, to choose and call persons of different characters."

Now I ask, please have the courtesy to answer my last post where I asked you a legit question that you can go ahead and answer with only Scripture. It would be good to see you actually answer with only Scripture, then you'd have a purely Biblical answer. If you've already answered prior to this post, then thank you.

 

[Phoneman777]

 

[Laish]

Hi Bill,

So if I'm understanding you correctly, then, God's criteria for whom He chose for redemption was that He picked least esteemed, the weakest, the most foolish ones? Is that correct?

Much love!
Mark

Hey Mark that’s not it . I said right there at the top of my response. It had nothing to do with us . It may and dose at times result in the lowly is chosen to put to shame the proud . Still Its not so in Paul’ case here the wise was humbled to give all glory to God .
Here it is explained further. Note all caps are quoted OT scripture
Romans 9 : 9 for this is the word of promise: “AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON.” 10 and not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twinsby one man, our father Isaac;11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,12 it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” 13 just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”

14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be!15 for He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.” 16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
Blessings
Bill

 

[marks]

Hey Mark that’s not it . I said right there at the top of my response. It had nothing to do with us . It may and dose at times result in the lowly is chosen to put to shame the proud . Still Its not so in Paul’ case here the wise was humbled to give all glory to God .
Here it is explained further. Note all caps are quoted OT scripture
Romans 9 : 9 for this is the word of promise: “AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON.” 10 and not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twinsby one man, our father Isaac;11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,12 it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” 13 just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”

14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be!15 for He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.” 16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
Blessings
Bill

OK, can you tell me the correct answer then? With what criteria does God choose whom He chooses?

Much love!

 

[Nancy]

OK, can you tell me the correct answer then? With what criteria does God choose whom He chooses?

Much love!

Arbitrarily will be their answer Marks. No rhyme, no reason. Just random.

 

[marks]

Arbitrarily will be their answer Marks. No rhyme, no reason. Just random.

Let's let Bill answer. I'm interested, personally.

I'm happy that someone will actually have a discussion with me, without just trying to do battle.

Much love!

 

[Nancy]

Let's let Bill answer. I'm interested, personally.

I'm happy that someone will actually have a discussion with me, without just trying to do battle.

Much love!

Yes, he is very graceful with his words. Sry to break in there

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Arbitrarily will be their answer Marks. No rhyme, no reason. Just random.

The biblical God never does "arbitrary"

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

9 Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

10 And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face.

11 Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them.

 

[Laish]

OK, can you tell me the correct answer then? With what criteria does God choose whom He chooses?

Much love!

God Hasn’t revealed any criteria for what His will in election . Except that it is His will .

2 Timothy 1:8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me His prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the gospel according to the power of God,
9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity.

So a short answer is for God’s own purpose. What that is ? Well scripture dose point to the fact that His ways and thoughts are way beyond ours . I am sorry if that’s not satisfactory for you . It’s the way I read it . I trust In God’s will and his purpose for what He dose . I see it as not me but Him .
Scripture dose have examples of those chosen for use by God even before they were born . Isaac , Jacob , Samson , Samuel and John the Baptist. Still no reason given for the choice on the individual .
If this leads to other questions ask .
Blessings
Bill

 

[Enoch111]

OK, can you tell me the correct answer then? With what criteria does God choose whom He chooses?

The whole concept of God choosing some for salvation is a GROSS VIOLATION of God's character and His Gospel. In fact it is an evil concept given what has been clearly revealed in Scripture. And thus the Five Points of Calvinism must distort the entire Gospel in order to be consistent.

What is being said is that because God chooses some for salvation, Christ could not possibly die for the sins of the whole world. And since those chosen cannot possibly respond to the Gospel, they are regenerated before they are actually saved. All of this blatantly contradicts Scripture and makes a mockery of the true Gospel.