The enmity between the flesh and Spirit

[Stewardofthemystery]

We are all firstborn of “the flesh,”and also have a sin nature working in us because of Adams original sin.
Romans 5:12“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”

This is how the serpent corrupted God’s image in Adam by corrupting the ways of man to follow after the serpent’s desire. Genesis 4:7 “If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.”

This desire of the serpent is to serve the lusts of the flesh, and those who are of his spirit think like their father the Devil; or have the mind of the flesh (carnally minded) being earthly, sensual, and devilish.


But those who are of God the Fathers seed (womans seed) do mind the things of the Spirit of God, or do God’s will, or desire.

The 2 seeds of flesh and Spirit are first shown here. Genesis 3:14-15 “And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.” (“it” is the spirit of a lie)


This enmity between Gods Spirit (Spirit of Truth) and the spirit working in the world and also in the firstborn man who is flesh is shown here. Genesis 6:3 “And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”(120=666)

But Jesus Christ came to destroy the body of sin and the works of the Devil. And to remove that enmity, or the spirit of the fleshy or carnal mind in man, and also give man a new Spirit and new mind in order to serve Gods will.


Because these 2 minds (flesh/ Spirit) are contrary to one another, just as the natural man has a mind of the flesh (carnally minded) and cannot understand the spiritual things of God. 1 Corinthians 2:14“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”


The only way to resolve this issue of being carnally minded, and being of that wicked seed and generation, is to be born again and made a new man in Christ.

Jesus said in John 3:6 “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”

Now pay close attention to what Jesus says here in John 3:3 “ Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”


This means the man who is not born again of the Spirit will not see, perceive, or understand the many mysteries of the kingdom spoken of in the law and prophets. The reason being is the kingdom of God does not dwell in Him by way of the Holy Ghost.(Spirit of Truth)

Jesus said in Mark 4:11 “And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:”


This is why the world, and even those Christians who are still yet carnal cannot see or hear the many mysteries spoken by the Spirit of God in the law and prophets. And these 2 seeds, and these 2 mind
sets, or ways of thinking strive against one another.


This is why those who are of the world, and of the flesh, hate those who are of the Spirit. Galatians 4:29 “But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.”

This persecution was first shown in the firstborn Cain killing Abel; notice Cain was of that Wicked seed in 1 John 3:12“Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.”


This is the wicked and adulterous generation Jesus was talking about in Matthew 16:4 and also in Matthew 12:45. And because they are of the serpents seed both John the Baptist and Jesus referred to them as a generation of vipers, and serpents in Matthew 23:33“Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?”
These are those who are yet in the flesh, and do the lusts of their father the devil, they are the seed of evil doers.


This whole wicked world is under this corrupt condition 1 John 5:19 “And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.”


And the only remedy for this condition is either destruction, or for a person to come to the cross of Christ and be born again by faith in God’s spiritual seed of promise, and be made a new creature in Christ by His Holy Spirit.

Then and only then will the covering vail of the flesh be removed from your mind, and your eyes will be anointed so that they can see the Kingdom of God that is within you.


The first nature working in mankind is sinful, is of the world, earthly, naturally minded, or carnally minded, and walks after the ways of the world. (lust of the eye, lust of the flesh, and pride of life)


John said in John 3:31 “..: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: ..” He speaks of the earth because that is all he knows naturally, like a natural brute beast.


The first man is natural as it is written in 1 Corinthians 15:45-48 “And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.”


Our first man is carnally minded, but our new man in Christ is spiritually minded.

Romans 8:6 “For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Romans 8:7 “Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.”


Jesus came to remove that enmity….

Ephesians 2:15 “Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;”
1 Corinthians 2:10-16

Peace and God bless

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Notice…

Jhn 3:6 - That which is born of the flesh G4561 is flesh; G4561 and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Note the definition of the word “flesh”G4561


the sensuous nature of man, "the animal nature"

1. without any suggestion of depravity
2. the animal nature with cravings which incite to sin
3. the physical nature of man as subject to suffering
4. a living creature (because possessed of a body of flesh) whether man or beast
5. the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God.” This “animal like” sin nature in both the first man and beast (serpent) is a clue to understanding the mark of the man/beast
   
   
   

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@Stewardofthemystery
I do love reading your post. Hopefully you will consider what I have to share. My husband and I were just talking about this way back in Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

I’ve heard that as women desire to rule the house and rule over their husband, when the man is to rule over her. I’ve heard this used so often in a literal sense. but if I could ever share with women it would be this: it’s not speaking of a biological woman but …the women are two covenants. To me this changes everything with the view on “two covenants.” he talks on this in the “bond woman” and “the free woman”. It removes not only how I’ve heard it used of men but also …it also demolishes a feminine view as well…once I could see it’s not even speaking of me as a woman… but two covenants. Imo this would help women see this is not about us as a gender but two covenants with both male and female…either of the bond woman or of the free woman. To speak of “a woman” …it’s which covenant is “the woman” of? See. Out in the world if I’d write about “a woman” almost always it would appear I’m pushing my own gender or sex. That is not why I feel it is vital to see there is a bond woman and a free woman.

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; in sorrow you shall bring forth children; and your desire shall be to your husband, and he shall rule over you.

1 Corinthians 7:32-34 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried cares for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: [33] But he that is married cares for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife(sounds familiar). [34] There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married cares for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

Galatians 4:24-31 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which genders to bondage, which is Agar. [25] For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. [26] But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. [27] For it is written, Rejoice, you barren that bear not; break forth and cry, you that travail not…James 4:7-10 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. [8] Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double minded. [9] Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. [10] Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

….: for the desolate has many more children than she which has an husband. [28] Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. [29] But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. [30] Nevertheless what says the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. [31] So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Now pay close attention to what Jesus says here in John 3:3 “ Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”


This means the man who is not born again of the Spirit will not see, perceive, or understand the many mysteries of the kingdom spoken of in the law and prophets. The reason being is the kingdom of God does not dwell in Him by way of the Holy Ghost.(Spirit of Truth)

Jesus said in Mark 4:11 “And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:”


This is why the world, and even those Christians who are still yet carnal cannot see or hear the many mysteries spoken by the Spirit of God in the law and prophets. And these 2 seeds, and these 2 mind
sets, or ways of thinking strive against one another.

If by this you mean seeing hidden meanings or statements that are not part of the written word. Yoou are way off base.

John 3:3 means if you are not born again- you are lost, not that you have some special insight into the "secretsa" hidden in scripture as some falsely claim.

And Mark 4:11? That was said about the parables only and not some all encompassing statement that we are free to interpret Scriptures as we "believe" teh Spirit is giving new or "hidden" revelations.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

@Stewardofthemystery
I do love reading your post. Hopefully you will consider what I have to share. My husband and I were just talking about this way back in Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

I’ve heard that as women desire to rule the house and rule over their husband, when the man is to rule over her. I’ve heard this used so often in a literal sense. but if I could ever share with women it would be this: it’s not speaking of a biological woman but …the women are two covenants. To me this changes everything with the view on “two covenants.” he talks on this in the “bond woman” and “the free woman”. It removes not only how I’ve heard it used of men but also …it also demolishes a feminine view as well…once I could see it’s not even speaking of me as a woman… but two covenants. Imo this would help women see this is not about us as a gender but two covenants with both male and female…either of the bond woman or of the free woman. To speak of “a woman” …it’s which covenant is “the woman” of? See. Out in the world if I’d write about “a woman” almost always it would appear I’m pushing my own gender or sex. That is not why I feel it is vital to see there is a bond woman and a free woman.

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; in sorrow you shall bring forth children; and your desire shall be to your husband, and he shall rule over you.

1 Corinthians 7:32-34 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried cares for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: [33] But he that is married cares for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife(sounds familiar). [34] There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married cares for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

Galatians 4:24-31 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which genders to bondage, which is Agar. [25] For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. [26] But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. [27] For it is written, Rejoice, you barren that bear not; break forth and cry, you that travail not…James 4:7-10 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. [8] Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double minded. [9] Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. [10] Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

….: for the desolate has many more children than she which has an husband. [28] Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. [29] But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. [30] Nevertheless what says the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. [31] So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

That is an interesting concept, as I’ve seen in Adam and Eve a type/ shadow of Christ being the male figure and the Church being the woman figure, whose desire would be to the Lord.

Ephesians 5:21-33

King James Version

​

21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

That is an interesting concept, as I’ve seen in Adam and Eve a type/ shadow of Christ being the male figure and the Church being the woman figure, whose desire would be to the Lord.

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; in sorrow you shall bring forth children; and your desire shall be to your husband, and he shall rule over you.

^to me in the above the woman’s desire turned from the Lord and what she multiplies (from her husband) brings forth in sorrow, children, in the bondage of sin unto death. Not Godly sorrow but the sorrow of the world. In “your desire shall be to your husband” “as long as he lives” and “he shall rule you” …
Romans 7:2-5 For the woman which has an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he lives; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.(free for her desire to be turned(returned?) unto the Lord, even unto Christ) [3] So then if, while her husband lives, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from (her desire unto) that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man(Christ). [4] Wherefore, my brethren, you also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that you should be married (your desire)to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit(children) unto God. (For the woman is saved through child bearing) 5] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit (children) unto death.
I get what your are saying and why you quoted

Ephesians 5:21-33. But to me it’s necessary to consider the curse of the woman is to bring forth sorrow in that desire to her husband(which husband by His own body Christ has set you free from being bound)which (bondage to the curse) resulted in sin unto death. The opposite of bringing forth godly sorrow which works Life…worldly sorrow brings forth death. wasn’t the curse in the woman’s desire unto bondage and not to God. Which God sets her free from the desires of bondage. That is the good news, I think. That God sets her free from the curse, to bring forth fruit unto God. ​

Sorry, I don’t mean all that to be bold but it won’t unbold it. ​

 

[VictoryinJesus]

For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Significant I think is Agar (the handmaiden?) answers to (ruled by) Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

^to me in the above the woman’s desire turned from the Lord and what she multiplies (from her husband) brings forth in sorrow, children, in the bondage of sin unto death. Not Godly sorrow but the sorrow of the world. In “your desire shall be to your husband” “as long as he lives” and “he shall rule you” …
Romans 7:2-5 For the woman which has an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he lives; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.(free for her desire to be turned(returned?) unto the Lord, even unto Christ) [3] So then if, while her husband lives, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from (her desire unto) that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man(Christ). [4] Wherefore, my brethren, you also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that you should be married (your desire)to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit(children) unto God. (For the woman is saved through child bearing) 5] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit (children) unto death.
I get what your are saying and why you quoted

Ephesians 5:21-33. But to me it’s necessary to consider the curse of the woman is to bring forth sorrow in that desire to her husband(which husband by His own body Christ has set you free from being bound)which (bondage to the curse) resulted in sin unto death. The opposite of bringing forth godly sorrow which works Life…worldly sorrow brings forth death. wasn’t the curse in the woman’s desire unto bondage and not to God. Which God sets her free from the desires of bondage. That is the good news, I think. That God sets her free from the curse, to bring forth fruit unto God. ​

Sorry, I don’t mean all that to be bold but it won’t unbold it. ​

That is similar to what the Lord said to Cain about the Serpents desire to sin also becoming man’s desire to sin.

Genesis 4:7
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

When sin entered into the world by Adams sin, then the serpents desire to sin also became man’s desire to sin. And this is when sin began its reign in the world unto death.

Romans 5:21
That as sin hath reignedunto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:12
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

We are all firstborn of the flesh, being born under the law of sin and death. That is why we must be born again of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Significant I think is Agar (the handmaiden?) answers to (ruled by) Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Right, that allegory is speaking to the children of the flesh being born under the bondage of sin and death.

The children of the promise of the Spirit are made free from the bondage of sin and death by the Spirit of Christ.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If by this you mean seeing hidden meanings or statements that are not part of the written word. Yoou are way off base.

John 3:3 means if you are not born again- you are lost, not that you have some special insight into the "secretsa" hidden in scripture as some falsely claim.

And Mark 4:11? That was said about the parables only and not some all encompassing statement that we are free to interpret Scriptures as we "believe" teh Spirit is giving new or "hidden" revelations.

I get this wasn’t to me but ‘If by this you mean seeing hidden meanings or statements that are not part of the written word. Yoou are way off base.’ …I look at it like this. We can see now that the OT foretold of Christ. But during that time it wasn’t made manifest. That isn’t to mean “it wasn’t a part of the word” …instead it was there but not yet seen. You’d have a hard time (Imo) proving people don’t read the word and do not see what is there. It happens all the time. Do you ever see something in a verse you hadn’t seen before? That doesn’t mean it wasn’t a part of the word. You just didn’t see it yet. I still compare it to being given a book that is in Spanish. I don’t speak Spanish. What is written in the book doesn’t change its content because of my not being able to read Spanish. You may take an offense at that. The more we hear His voice, instead of our own voice. I’m not saying “special revelation” but shouldn’t we grow in discernment of His Voice? The more we learn His language (Imo). And His Tone. It helps with a new perspective. Is that bad to be given a new perspective when He said to renew your mind? when I first started reading the word most of what I read, I understood through the lens of damage and hurt and resentment to where all I heard was a tyrant and a judge and a male chauvinist. The tone I heard when Jesus called his mother “woman” I heard as demeaning. It’s taken a long time to get that voice out of my head, and lots of times it tries to creep back in. It’s that voice, that lens, that blinds me to what is there.

His word hasn’t changed.
I think I have changed.
For that I’m grateful because it was horrible the way I once viewed God.

The best advice I ever received was reading the Word through the lens of Christ. Put Him at the center.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Right, that allegory is speaking to the children of the flesh being born under the bondage of sin and death.

The children of the promise of the Spirit are made free from the bondage of sin and death by the Spirit of Christ.

You may have already read it in depth. But I can’t recommend Numbers 5 often enough. Which is a miracle to me because it use to be some freaky ritual to me. Now something I once hated has become precious to me in helping to see Christ in Numbers 5. Both are there… the woman under bondage unto sin and death. And the woman who is free(from the law of jealousies, clean), and conceives seed. It helps with Romans 7. Interesting is Agar answers to (ruled by) Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Yet New Jerusalem above is free. To me this helps with what you’re shared concerning “I will write upon him my new name” “New Jerusalem”. And if you consider the law of Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.” It helps I think with “New Jerusalem” her law is Spirit. Which helps with what Paul said concerning knowing the Law is Spiritual but being carnal and under sin.

But I’m hesitant to say which woman was sent into the wilderness… where now there is no more “bond” or “free” …and I’m not so certain who the “her” is that Agar answers to …in bondage with her children. Who is “her” …we naturally assume it’s Agars children or is Agar in bondage with the wife’s children. Who is the wife that became jealous? Too many questions on who was sent out into the wilderness…? And why she was given water there…

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

But I’m hesitant to say which woman was sent into the wilderness… where now there is no more “bond” or “free” …and I’m not so certain who the “her” is that Agar answers to …in bondage with her children. Who is “her” …we naturally assume it’s Agars children or is Agar in bondage with the wife’s children. Who is the wife that became jealous? Too many questions on who was sent out into the wilderness…? And why she was given water there…

To keep it simple, the main teaching of the allegory is that those who are first born of the flesh are represented as the children of the bond woman, because they are still under the bondage of sin.

Those children of the free woman represent those who are born again of the Spirit, these are made free from the bondage of sin and death.

Galatians 4:29
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

You can see this same allegory in the firstborn Cain who persecuted and killed his righteous brother Abel. And in the firstborn Esau who God said He hated, vs. Jacob whom God said He loved even before they were born.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I get this wasn’t to me but ‘If by this you mean seeing hidden meanings or statements that are not part of the written word. Yoou are way off base.’ …I look at it like this. We can see now that the OT foretold of Christ. But during that time it wasn’t made manifest. That isn’t to mean “it wasn’t a part of the word” …instead it was there but not yet seen. You’d have a hard time (Imo) proving people don’t read the word and do not see what is there. It happens all the time. Do you ever see something in a verse you hadn’t seen before? That doesn’t mean it wasn’t a part of the word. You just didn’t see it yet. I still compare it to being given a book that is in Spanish. I don’t speak Spanish. What is written in the book doesn’t change its content because of my not being able to read Spanish. You may take an offense at that. The more we hear His voice, instead of our own voice. I’m not saying “special revelation” but shouldn’t we grow in discernment of His Voice? The more we learn His language (Imo). And His Tone. It helps with a new perspective. Is that bad to be given a new perspective when He said to renew your mind? when I first started reading the word most of what I read, I understood through the lens of damage and hurt and resentment to where all I heard was a tyrant and a judge and a male chauvinist. The tone I heard when Jesus called his mother “woman” I heard as demeaning. It’s taken a long time to get that voice out of my head, and lots of times it tries to creep back in. It’s that voice, that lens, that blinds me to what is there.

His word hasn’t changed.
I think I have changed.
For that I’m grateful because it was horrible the way I once viewed God.

The best advice I ever received was reading the Word through the lens of Christ. Put Him at the center.

Personal applications and seeing something you haven't seen before are vastly different than what many call "special revelation" is.

I like the quote: "there may be many applications to bible verses, but there is only one interpretation. God wrote what He meant".

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Personal applications and seeing something you haven't seen before are vastly different than what many call "special revelation" is.

I like the quote: "there may be many applications to bible verses, but there is only one interpretation. God wrote what He meant".

That is saying the common interpretation is the correct one. The most widely accepted interpretation has to be the right one. If that were true then the Pharisees and sadducees would have gotten it right. But Jesus had a radically different interpretation than theirs. Paul had been given a radically different interpretation than theirs, and even a radically different interpretation than Saul. Yet the Pharisees and sadducees said their interpretation was the only correct one and that Jesus had a devil.

We are not fighting for “there is only one interpretation. God wrote what He meant.” If that were the case we’d acknowledge “woman” is not a biological woman. you are correct in God wrote what He meant. If that happens to be the women are two covenants : one called an adulterous and one called Free. All our sexualizing it or varied interpretations of what God meant by “a woman” will not change the meaning. It will remain and always remain …the meaning God intended it to be. What He meant is constant and never changing. It begins in Genesis and goes all the way through to the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That is saying the common interpretation is the correct one. The most widely accepted interpretation has to be the right one. If that were true then the Pharisees and sadducees would have gotten it right. But Jesus had a radically different interpretation than theirs. Paul had been given a radically different interpretation than theirs, and even a radically different interpretation than Saul. Yet the Pharisees and sadducees said their interpretation was the only correct one and that Jesus had a devil.

We are not fighting for “there is only one interpretation. God wrote what He meant.” If that were the case we’d acknowledge “woman” is not a biological woman. you are correct in God wrote what He meant. If that happens to be the women are two covenants : one called an adulterous and one called Free. All our sexualizing it or varied interpretations of what God meant by “a woman” will not change the meaning. It will remain and always remain …the meaning God intended it to be. What He meant is constant and never changing. It begins in Genesis and goes all the way through to the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

The Pharisees and Sadducees reinterpreted the plain text of Scripture through their writings.

And your use of "weoman" was clearly written as an allegory so that is an invalid point you make.

The Pharisees and Sadducees and Essenes and Herodians all did not hold to what we call a literal/historical/grammatical understanding of Scripture.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The Pharisees and Sadducees reinterpreted the plain text of Scripture through their writings.

And your use of "weoman" was clearly written as an allegory so that is an invalid point you make.

The Pharisees and Sadducees and Essenes and Herodians all did not hold to what we call a literal/historical/grammatical understanding of Scripture.

My husband sends me a lot of YouTube videos of what some believe about gender. Even our ways of seeing the man and the woman has been the same in the past as the people we listen to in the videos. He asked a man if women are included in the building up of a perfect man? Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
The answer was no. Clearly. It is speaking only about men coming into the full knowledge of Christ, growing up into a prefect man.

Seriously? And people are more concerned about the text being over spiritualized? That is the biggest concern?

I’ve tried to recommend Numbers 5. Which speaks of two women…one called an adulterer. And the woman pronounced clean, called no adulterer but made free by her husband to bear fruit. It fits Romans. What Romans 7 speaks of is being free to bring forth fruit unto God. Urging the message of: be no more called an adulterer, giving the message of you have been made free from being called an adulterer by the body of Christ to bear fruit not unto death, but to bear fruit unto Life. (Both are there in the women: sin unto death and obedience unto righteousness.) I get many will say we were never of the adulterous woman but I can only speak for myself that I have brought forth sin unto death….so I am familiar with the woman that loves death.

Even the Proverbs 31 Woman …I thought for a long time she doesn’t include men. I also thought the Proverbs 31 woman is a study guide to and for women only. I thought she must be literal and because of that I must try to be the Proverbs 31 Woman. What happens when I see she is the free woman that Paul spoke of as “we are of the free woman” “New Jerusalem, which is above and free” ……what Paul?…are you saying those of the Spirit are of the Proverbs 31 Woman? See …I have yet to see men writing a book about the Proverbs 31 woman and teaching they are of that free woman. Instead they instruct it’s applicable to women, when it’s just as much a study guide for men like Paul who said. Galatians 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

The woman who is free (New Jerusalem) doesn’t change. Who the woman is (New Jerusalem that now is) that is called an adulterous doesn’t change. That there are two women …in the law of jealousies one who is flesh and is under the law, bound to her husband until his death(which death is denied). And a woman made free from the law of jealousies —by the body of Christ—to bring forth fruit unto God. That doesn’t change. We are either under sin unto death. Or having passed from death unto Life, having been called free—obedience unto rightness. Same as all in Adam…and all in Christ. That goes beyond gender (no?) …telling the same message over and over …separation from God, a call of reconciliation unto God.

until we get it out of our head it’s about sex or money or literal temporal things then …where does that leave us?


I will never promote or assume that men are not also a part of the Proverbs 31 woman. Do you know how freeing that is? That there are no more bond nor free, no more Jew or Greek, no more male and female …for New Jerusalem is above and free…I want very much to understand that which comes down from above, given of God; the Law that is Spiritual, the Wisdom given from above…I want to hear what New Jerusalem is about. How is New Jerusalem governed? Is it By Christ? What is New Jerusalems Fruit? Is her Fruit Christ? How is New Jerusalem streets paved? Is it By Faith? What is New Jerusalem’s Law? Has to be Spiritual, for New Jerusalem is Spiritual where those born of New Jerusalem are Spirit. For Spirit gives birth to Spirit. Who is King of New Jerusalem? How does new Jerusalem come down from above to clothe us in the New man, to where we know if this house is destroyed …we have a house given From above? New Jerusalem …isn’t there a book called Proverbs that speaks all about the Wisdom given from above? What is New Jerusalem’s currency? What is New Jerusalem’s wealth …what are your walls made of? What is Your foundation New Jerusalem?

New Jerusalem given from above and is to come ….how is Your Wisdom different from the wisdom of the Jerusalem that now is?

Do you over Spiritualize New Jerusalem?

 

[Ziggy]

What is the original lie ?

What is the origen of a lie?

The bible speaks of Lucifer being perfect until iniquity was found in him.
Jesus says that Satan is the father of lies.
He is the creator of lie.
How did he create the act of lying or of being a lier?
Can we create emotions or actions that never existed prior to the ones we have today?

I think the offspring of lying can be many different levels of emotions and actions.

When the man from the cave approached Jesus who is the truth and all things good came face to face with Legion... many.
It is the truth facing the lie.
And the darkness fled before the light.

Is Satan or even the idea of Satan a lie?
Can anything oppose God?

Did man create Satan as our weapon against God?
Satan isn't as strong as God because God didn't create him, man did.

Is this where the lie originates? In a belief that anything can stand in opposition to God, and that man believes he can create one to oppose God.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

When Jesus says to Peter that Satan will sift him as wheat, is he talking about his own conscience?
When does lying become a conscious act?
When do you know you've done something wrong?

When does truth become lies and lies become truth?
And why do people have the power to twist them?

The Truth came and shattered the Lie.

The Light came and scattered the darkness.

But where did they come from?

The man blames the woman, the woman blames the snake, and the buck stops there?
The Lie was the fruit. The Lie was the knowledge of good and evil?
The Lie came from the tongue, or the mind.
Was it a defect in something God had created?

Was that defect free choice? Self determination?
We are seeds infected with GMO's and each generation becomes weaker and weaker.
And a new crop is grown pure, with no defects.
What more could I have done for my garden?

Where did the iniquity found in Lucifer come from?

What is a Lie?
And on what foundation do we rest on for Truth?

So we have Fox news and CNN. Each side believes their is the Truth and the other the Lie.
And yet all we have are pictures and words transmitted to us through the "air" .
In the garden Adam had the picture (imaginations) and the words from the snake.

but where did Adams imagination come from? And with what information did he have to work with?
If you eat you die, If you eat you live. You choose.
What is the difference if you don't have the definition of either?


How do you know what is the truth and what is a lie? Are we A.I. offspring?
Talk about being in the Matrix...

Just rambling
Hugs

 

[Ronald Nolette]

My husband sends me a lot of YouTube videos of what some believe about gender. Even our ways of seeing the man and the woman has been the same in the past as the people we listen to in the videos. He asked a man if women are included in the building up of a perfect man? Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
The answer was no. Clearly. It is speaking only about men coming into the full knowledge of Christ, growing up into a prefect man.

This is a statement said in ignorance. When one simply goes back to the original we see the perfect man is not plural, but singular. We means all believers and the perfect man refers to christ!

Even the Proverbs 31 Woman …I thought for a long time she doesn’t include men. I also thought the Proverbs 31 woman is a study guide to and for women only. I thought she must be literal and because of that I must try to be the Proverbs 31 Woman. What happens when I see she is the free woman that Paul spoke of as “we are of the free woman” “New Jerusalem, which is above and free” ……what Paul?…are you saying those of the Spirit are of the Proverbs 31 Woman? See …I have yet to see men writing a book about the Proverbs 31 woman and teaching they are of that free woman. Instead they instruct it’s applicable to women, when it’s just as much a study guide for men like Paul who said. Galatians 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Then you have a real problem for verses 10-31 are specifically about a virtuous woman. If it is about men then there is a real problem:

11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.

12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.

I have seen this used to subtly promote homosexuality and women being pastors.

No it is much easier to take it at its face value instead of allegorizing the passage.

The woman who is free (New Jerusalem) doesn’t change. Who the woman is (New Jerusalem that now is) that is called an adulterous doesn’t change. That there are two women …in the law of jealousies one who is flesh and is under the law, bound to her husband until his death(which death is denied). And a woman made free from the law of jealousies —by the body of Christ—to bring forth fruit unto God. That doesn’t change. We are either under sin unto death. Or having passed from death unto Life, having been called free—obedience unto rightness. Same as all in Adam…and all in Christ. That goes beyond gender (no?) …telling the same message over and over …separation from God, a call of reconciliation unto God.

Paul said these were an allegory so there is no problem . He is using the physical to compare the spiritual like Jesus did with the parables.

New Jerusalem given from above and is to come ….how is Your Wisdom different from the wisdom of the Jerusalem that now is?

Do you over Spiritualize New Jerusalem?

Not in the least! It is the New Jerusalem- the very city of God. Which comes down from the third heaven and becomes "the capitol city" so to speak of the new earth for eternity. Just as is written.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.

Proverbs 16:19 Better it is to be of an humble spirit (Christ)with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.

This is a statement said in ignorance. When one simply goes back to the original we see the perfect man is not plural, but singular. We means all believers and the perfect man refers to christ!

The Virtuous Woman is not plural either. She is singular. The same way you see the perfect Man is Christ, which means all believers…

Is it horrible to suggest the woman is New Jerusalem, which means all believers. What man would want to exclude himself from the Woman (singular)which is above and free?

If you would read through her description most is outdated if we read it literally …see how who the Prefect Man doesn’t change, neither does the Woman buy transcends time.
Proverbs 31:13-31
She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands. [14] She is like the merchants' ships; she brings her food from afar. [15] She rises also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens. [16] She considers a field, and buys it: with the fruit of her hands she plants a vineyard. [17] She girds her loins with strength, and strengthens her arms. [18] She perceives that her merchandise is good: her candle goes not out by night(what night? If you want to make it literal, then don’t make this “you are not of the night, but of the day. So a the thief doesn’t overcome you.” . [19] She lays her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff. [20] She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy. [21] She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet. [22] She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple. [23] Her husband is known in the gates, when he sits among the elders of the land. [24] She makes fine linen, and sells it; and delivers girdles unto the merchant. [25] Strength and honour (Christ)are her clothing(it was granted unto her ; Revelation 19:7-8 Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready; [8] it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure"- for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.) …and she shall rejoice in time to come. [26] She opens her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness(in her tongue is Life?). [27] She looks well to the ways of her household, and eats not the bread of idleness. [28] Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises her. [29] Many daughters have done virtuously, but You excellest them all. 2 Corinthians 3:9-10 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness excel in glory. [10] For indeed what had glory in this case has no glory, because of the glory that surpasses it.


30] Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that fears the LORD, she shall be praised. [31] Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.

If it’s significant the Man (Christ) is singular.
So is The Woman of the Man(Christ) singular.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Proverbs 16:19 Better it is to be of an humble spirit (Christ)with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.

The Virtuous Woman is not plural either. She is singular. The same way you see the perfect Man is Christ, which means all believers…

Is it horrible to suggest the woman is New Jerusalem, which means all believers. What man would want to exclude himself from the Woman (singular)which is above and free?

If you would read through her description most is outdated if we read it literally …see how who the Prefect Man doesn’t change, neither does the Woman buy transcends time.
Proverbs 31:13-31
She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands. [14] She is like the merchants' ships; she brings her food from afar. [15] She rises also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens. [16] She considers a field, and buys it: with the fruit of her hands she plants a vineyard. [17] She girds her loins with strength, and strengthens her arms. [18] She perceives that her merchandise is good: her candle goes not out by night(what night? If you want to make it literal, then don’t make this “you are not of the night, but of the day. So a the thief doesn’t overcome you.” . [19] She lays her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff. [20] She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy. [21] She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet. [22] She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple. [23] Her husband is known in the gates, when he sits among the elders of the land. [24] She makes fine linen, and sells it; and delivers girdles unto the merchant. [25] Strength and honour (Christ)are her clothing(it was granted unto her ; Revelation 19:7-8 Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready; [8] it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure"- for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.) …and she shall rejoice in time to come. [26] She opens her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness(in her tongue is Life?). [27] She looks well to the ways of her household, and eats not the bread of idleness. [28] Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises her. [29] Many daughters have done virtuously, but You excellest them all. 2 Corinthians 3:9-10 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness excel in glory. [10] For indeed what had glory in this case has no glory, because of the glory that surpasses it.


30] Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that fears the LORD, she shall be praised. [31] Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.

If it’s significant the Man (Christ) is singular.
So is The Woman of the Man(Christ) singular.

You are free to think what you wish, but the bible is describing a good woman for a man. Just because in ephesians the church matures to the conformity of Jesus does not make the virtuous woman the church.

YOu make good personal applications but that is not the meaning of teh verses. What you did is known as eisegesis and not exegesis.

Eisegesis is for personal application of passages that have no direct bearing on us, but the exegesis of the passage is what King Lemuel wrote about a virtuous woman.