The deep danger of politicizing Christianity. It simply reveals our deep need for revival.

[marks]

And there you go again with your insults. If you really mean no harm, you can dispense with these, thank you very much.

By their fruit you shall know them.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Are you going to get informed, or are you going to repeat the same worn-out rhetoric about the Republican platform not having any impact on moral issues such as abortion?

The answer will be revealing.

 

[WaterSong]

I agree with you that America was not founded as a theocracy. but given the plethora of quotes from our Founders saying we were a Christian nation- I would dis agree that we are a godly nation today. The majority of Americans cannot name the four gospel writers.

That is your unqualified opinion of course. I would give more credit to my sisters and brothers in Christ.
Metropolitan statistics available for 236 Religious Groups | U.S. Religion Census | Religious Statistics & Demographics

We have murdered 55,000,000+ babies in less than 50 years

A Constitutional issue, afforded in a secular governed country.
Christians who are against abortion do not have abortions. As they say, if you're against abortion don't have one.
We have no legal right to enforce our moral ideologies upon the millions of non-Christians in America.

We are a world leader in pornography

First amendment. The same amendment that guarantees I am a free Christian living in a country wherein I am able to not patronize pornography. Christians don't patronize pornography. We do not have the moral right to command non-Christians. We know what's waiting for them. Do they?

1 in 2 marriages end in divorce

Is the divorce rate among Christians truly the same as among non-Christians? | GotQuestions.org

we celebrate homosexuality and "trans" ( we now have over 50 genders???)

We don't.

Though sadly there are denominations in the church that have turned Apostate with regard to this matter.
It is an immoral sin, of the many, in the world population today. As mentioned earlier, we know where those who are committed to the world and die in their sins are going.
We are in the world but apart from that. We, our lives, as has also been said, may be the only Bible some people "read".
We navigate through the fallen every single day. Are all sins proof we the church of Jesus is overcome?

AS John Adams said:

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

John Adams also said/wrote to Thomas Jefferson on December 12th 1816:"...I return the Analysis of Dupuis, with my thanks for the loan of it. It is but a faint miniature of the original. I have read that original in twelve volumes, besides a thirteenth of plates. I have been a lover and a reader of romances all my life, from Don Quixote and Gil Bias to the Scottish Chiefs, and a hundred others. For the last year or two I have devoted myself to this kind of study, and have read fifteen volumes of Grimm, seven volumes of Tucker's Neddy Search, twelve volumes of Dupuis, and Tracy's Analysis, and four volumes of Jesuitical History! Romances all! I have learned nothing of importance to me, for they have made no change in my moral or religious creed, which has, for fifty or sixty years, been contained in four short words, "Be just and good." In this result they all agree with me.
I must acknowledge, however, that I have found in Dupuis more ideas that were new to me, than in all the others. My conclusion from all of them is universal toleration. Is there any work extant so well calculated to discredit corruptions and impostures in religion as Dupuis?"[end quote]

The forefathers of this nation in the first amendment of our Constitution insured neither this nation nor the Constitution itself, was a creedal issuance of nor pertaining to a Theocratic governed Christian nation.

And religion as used in their day was the christian religion!

As was Deism, and other faith and practices.

Don't forget, "in their day", 1692 to 1693 many a Puritan was accused of Witchcraft in Salem Massachusetts and by Puritan's, exercising their religious beliefs "by the English law". Of those many accused there were hanged 19 people that had been "found guilty" of Witchcraft. One victim was a very old lady who was deaf and unable to understand the charges against her much less mount a defense. There was but one man, Giles Corey, was crushed to death by prosecution of that same law. Shall we return to that manifestation of enforcing morality and God's word among Christian American's under American law, as would need be amended?
We cannot legislate morality, decency, or common sense.

It is sad that as biblical christianity is waning in America, so isn't adherence to teh constitution.

.

Given the many different ideologies there are as pertains to what constitutes Biblical Christianity, I am glad of it.
I would not remain married to someone who abused me. However, save for immorality, I would have no choice but to remain married were this nations laws prosecuted under the tenets of scripture. And which ones? Given God does not change and there in our Bible reside both the old and new testaments. And the ten commands which Jesus reiterated and declared, if we love him we shall keep his commands.
Certainly, it can be argued spousal abuse is immoral. However, to whom would that be left to decide? If Biblical Christianity were codified into a legal framework for we American Christians?

We read all the time, Christians are in the world but not of the world. If that were wholly true we would police ourselves because we are led by the indwelling holy spirit whom leads us to all truth. And as such would let the world's vices and avarice damn itself. Those who are in the world that hearken unto the call to repent shall come. Those who do not shall not.

Who are we to police the all, that God has earlier separated us from?

 

[Prayer Warrior]

The answer will be revealing.

I don’t think he will answer. He usually ignores me after insulting me. It hurts my feelings.

 

[marks]

I don’t think he will answer. He usually ignores me after insulting me. It hurts my feelings.

You needn't let it. I've come to see that many people don't really like to grapple with the more difficult issues, so they don't. And whether for that reason or another, sometimes people just can't do better than those sorts of answers.

I had a pastor who once told me, anyone you have problems with, just give God 10 years. That was good advice!

Much love!

 

[marks]

That is your unqualified opinion of course. I would give more credit to my sisters and brothers in Christ.
Metropolitan statistics available for 236 Religious Groups | U.S. Religion Census | Religious Statistics & Demographics

A Constitutional issue, afforded in a secular governed country.
Christians who are against abortion do not have abortions. As they say, if you're against abortion don't have one.
We have no legal right to enforce our moral ideologies upon the millions of non-Christians in America.


First amendment. The same amendment that guarantees I am a free Christian living in a country wherein I am able to not patronize pornography. Christians don't patronize pornography. We do not have the moral right to command non-Christians. We know what's waiting for them. Do they?

Is the divorce rate among Christians truly the same as among non-Christians? | GotQuestions.org
We don't.

Though sadly there are denominations in the church that have turned Apostate with regard to this matter.
It is an immoral sin, of the many, in the world population today. As mentioned earlier, we know where those who are committed to the world and die in their sins are going.
We are in the world but apart from that. We, our lives, as has also been said, may be the only Bible some people "read".
We navigate through the fallen every single day. Are all sins proof we the church of Jesus is overcome?



John Adams also said/wrote to Thomas Jefferson on December 12th 1816:"...I return the Analysis of Dupuis, with my thanks for the loan of it. It is but a faint miniature of the original. I have read that original in twelve volumes, besides a thirteenth of plates. I have been a lover and a reader of romances all my life, from Don Quixote and Gil Bias to the Scottish Chiefs, and a hundred others. For the last year or two I have devoted myself to this kind of study, and have read fifteen volumes of Grimm, seven volumes of Tucker's Neddy Search, twelve volumes of Dupuis, and Tracy's Analysis, and four volumes of Jesuitical History! Romances all! I have learned nothing of importance to me, for they have made no change in my moral or religious creed, which has, for fifty or sixty years, been contained in four short words, "Be just and good." In this result they all agree with me.
I must acknowledge, however, that I have found in Dupuis more ideas that were new to me, than in all the others. My conclusion from all of them is universal toleration. Is there any work extant so well calculated to discredit corruptions and impostures in religion as Dupuis?"[end quote]

The forefathers of this nation in the first amendment of our Constitution insured neither this nation nor the Constitution itself, was a creedal issuance of nor pertaining to a Theocratic governed Christian nation.


As was Deism, and other faith and practices.

Don't forget, "in their day", 1692 to 1693 many a Puritan was accused of Witchcraft in Salem Massachusetts and by Puritan's, exercising their religious beliefs "by the English law". Of those many accused there were hanged 19 people that had been "found guilty" of Witchcraft. One victim was a very old lady who was deaf and unable to understand the charges against her much less mount a defense. There was but one man, Giles Corey, was crushed to death by prosecution of that same law. Shall we return to that manifestation of enforcing morality and God's word among Christian American's under American law, as would need be amended?
We cannot legislate morality, decency, or common sense.

Given the many different ideologies there are as pertains to what constitutes Biblical Christianity, I am glad of it.
I would not remain married to someone who abused me. However, save for immorality, I would have no choice but to remain married were this nations laws prosecuted under the tenets of scripture. And which ones? Given God does not change and there in our Bible reside both the old and new testaments. And the ten commands which Jesus reiterated and declared, if we love him we shall keep his commands.
Certainly, it can be argued spousal abuse is immoral. However, to whom would that be left to decide? If Biblical Christianity were codified into a legal framework for we American Christians?

We read all the time, Christians are in the world but not of the world. If that were wholly true we would police ourselves because we are led by the indwelling holy spirit whom leads us to all truth. And as such would let the world's vices and avarice damn itself. Those who are in the world that hearken unto the call to repent shall come. Those who do not shall not.

Who are we to police the all, that God has earlier separated us from?

While I agree for the most part, I feel that I should, if I am able, act to protect those who are needing someone to protect them. Free speech protects porn and the Bible, but porn causes addiction in those who have no idea what they are getting into, and, if they are still developing, how it will impact the rest of their life. And unborn babies don't have an ideology about abortion, they are only victims.

And for the most part, the only say I have is my vote, and that only if it's not being stolen!

Much love!

 

[WaterSong]

While I agree for the most part, I feel that I should, if I am able, act to protect those who are needing someone to protect them. Free speech protects porn and the Bible, but porn causes addiction in those who have no idea what they are getting into, and, if they are still developing, how it will impact the rest of their life. And unborn babies don't have an ideology about abortion, they are only victims.

Imagine how occupied your life would be if you committed to acting to protect everyone you meet from themselves.
As for the unborn babies who are victims to abortion, I quiet my heartbreak with the knowledge they are with God eternally. They will never know the evils of this world in a conscious way, though made victims of and to it in some opinions, as victims of abortion.
They will rest in peace in God. And those who chose to abort them shall answer to God. Or, shall be forgiven by God.

And for the most part, the only say I have is my vote, and that only if it's not being stolen!

Much love!

Our vote does not amend the Constitution.
And I think this election serves to make people aware one way or the other. To question. Is this the first time the election was stolen? Or is it the first time the blatant evidence allows the theft to be discovered?
And will people, especially the Republican voter, dare to trust and vote again when our candidate was the target of the theft?
Can we trust any election after this?
Does theft explain why, even with horrific records while in office, offenders like Pelosi, Schumer, airheads like AOC, hateful feminists like Feinstein are reelected? And some even boast being career politicians?

If at no time in history, since the founding days of this Republic are long past and unable to be reworked, has there been cause to amend our Constitution to limit the term in office of our Legislative branch.
And yet, the cruel irony there is, for that to occur? That Legislative branch has to vote to amend the Constitution and apply unto their offices term limits. And by a 2/3rds majority!

The founders had lived under a Monarchal rule. They knew what indefinite authority was and how it corrupted. And yet, in the beginning, there were no term limits on even the Executive branch. (The presidency). George Washington set the limit for that seat of authority into motion.
Why didn't the forefathers, Washington even, continue to the other two branches?

I think the forefathers, having the experience of a Monarchy, knew what they were doing all along. I don't accept they never saw the corruption and hubris we witness in the Congress today coming. They knew in retrospect what corrupt power mongers would and could do to a nation and people. That's why we're to believe they wished to form a more perfect nation, a more perfect union. And a country free of that.

Without term limits for the Legislative and Judicial branches, we're not free of that. We're enslaved to an egocentric power hungry syndicate. The elected and their special interests.
Who are not especially interested in serving us.

Shortly after attaining the office, unopposed, AOC=Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, made news as the only Democrat, the only member in all of Congress, to undertake an effort to author a bill asking for a cost of living pay raise for all members. She remained the only one. Congress hasn't given themselves a pay raise in years.

Undeterred by the fact not one other member joined her pursuit, Nancy Pelosi was heard, after taking her aside, to say, in an effort to halt her absurd effort; "That's not how we make our money!"
Every member of Congress makes upwards of $100 thousand and above.
Save for the freshman, like AOC, the career members of Congress, without exception, are all millionaires!

How's that happen?
Their tax payer salary, isn't how they made that money.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That is your unqualified opinion of course. I would give more credit to my sisters and brothers in Christ.
Metropolitan statistics available for 236 Religious Groups | U.S. Religion Census | Religious Statistics & Demographics

If we are so godly, why are even teh sometime church attenders so illiterate of simple Bible Truths?

why does America lead in crime, abortions, alcoholism, we have a pandemic of drug use, etc.etc.etc. If we are as godly as raw statistics show this would not be.

Attending church does not make on godly anymore than walking into a McDonalds makes one a Big Mac!

A Constitutional issue, afforded in a secular governed country.
Christians who are against abortion do not have abortions. As they say, if you're against abortion don't have one.
We have no legal right to enforce our moral ideologies upon the millions of non-Christians in America.

Really? show me in the constitution where it says a woman has a right to kill that human being in her womb. It is not a dog or cat growing inside of her, but a human being with a complete DNA profile.

But you think that the non-Christians have a moral right to pass ungodly laws? And force us to pay for their ideologies through taxation?

We don't.

Though sadly there are denominations in the church that have turned Apostate with regard to this matter.
It is an immoral sin, of the many, in the world population today. As mentioned earlier, we know where those who are committed to the world and die in their sins are going.
We are in the world but apart from that. We, our lives, as has also been said, may be the only Bible some people "read".
We navigate through the fallen every single day. Are all sins proof we the church of Jesus is overcome?

But as a nation we do!

Gay pride parades, textbooks, sensitivity classes required for workers to make sure they don't offend gays and the other 47 newly created genders. We even have whole denominations that are "accepting churches". And by this I do not mean welcoming them in to hear the gospel in hopes of salvationa dn repentance, but welcoming them as gay and that they can be in right standing with God as practicing gays. The church which is 200 yards away from my home part of an "accepting" denomination, has a lesbian pastor.

As was Deism, and other faith and practices.

Don't forget, "in their day", 1692 to 1693 many a Puritan was accused of Witchcraft in Salem Massachusetts and by Puritan's, exercising their religious beliefs "by the English law". Of those many accused there were hanged 19 people that had been "found guilty" of Witchcraft. One victim was a very old lady who was deaf and unable to understand the charges against her much less mount a defense. There was but one man, Giles Corey, was crushed to death by prosecution of that same law. Shall we return to that manifestation of enforcing morality and God's word among Christian American's under American law, as would need be amended?
We cannot legislate morality, decency, or common sense.

Well if you wish I can link you two sites that have the very words of the the founders. I know that Franklin and Jefferson were deists, but they still had a respect for SCripture (except Jefferson later in his life) not all, but there is an archive of legions of the writings of the founders showing that "religion" as a term, normally meant the Christian religion.

And yes every law passed is legislating some form of morality and decency and common snense. We cannot legislate it so that it is a heart thing, but an external thing for an orderly and decent society.

If you don't believe that, go found your own country and pass no laws against murder, theft, rape, pedophilia and see how that society does.

Given the many different ideologies there are as pertains to what constitutes Biblical Christianity, I am glad of it.
I would not remain married to someone who abused me. However, save for immorality, I would have no choice but to remain married were this nations laws prosecuted under the tenets of scripture. And which ones? Given God does not change and there in our Bible reside both the old and new testaments. And the ten commands which Jesus reiterated and declared, if we love him we shall keep his commands.
Certainly, it can be argued spousal abuse is immoral. However, to whom would that be left to decide? If Biblical Christianity were codified into a legal framework for we American Christians?

We read all the time, Christians are in the world but not of the world. If that were wholly true we would police ourselves because we are led by the indwelling holy spirit whom leads us to all truth. And as such would let the world's vices and avarice damn itself. Those who are in the world that hearken unto the call to repent shall come. Those who do not shall not.

Who are we to police the all, that God has earlier separated us from?

that is why our founders made sure there was no national denomination like iin Anglican England, Lutheran Germany, Calvinist Sweden, or Catholic Spain, France , Italy. They allowed all denominations free reign.

But all this I say to say this: If we lived in a country that had no elections or laws were forced upon us- so be it.

But we live in a nation where we can vote and have a voice in the government. We should use and not abuse it!

Paul availed HImself of the political right to appeal directly to Cesar.
shamed a roman guard for whipping him who was a Roman citizen.

Also we are told to:

1 Timothy 2:1-3
King James Version

2 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

Psalm 33:12
Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.

Sorry but if I can vote to end the debauchery and butchery of abortion, I will. I cannot legislate one to become a real Christian, but through laws we can have a more orderly society, and if teh government is amenable to believers, to advance the gospel in the nation and around the world .

But if we have to meet in secret under fear of imprisionment and death, so be it as well.

 

[Nancy]

There is none good, save God. If we think we are on high moral ground choosing one party or another, we are again, choosing the lesser of two very carnal, evil, flesh oriented organizations of men.

Again, this is not a post about which side is best. Far from it. It is about the church looking for more into earthly things than seeing their own likenesses changed into the image of our amazing God. And in doing so, each side sets themselves up as enemies of the other brothers and sisters who see it differently.

It is called earthly minded-ness and we need to move by drawing near to our God, confessing our own great need before we decide all who do not believe like us politically o not know God at all. Rhat, brother, is a dangerous leap into darkness.

blessings,

Gideon

Amen brother,
John 13:35 is NOT a suggestion ;) And it is the way for others to KNOW we are His disciples.

 

[Ziggy]

No worries. Sodom and Gomorrah aren't near my neck of the woods.

I didn't. I'm 5'4", so I just used that. Actually, I'm 5'41/2. Fractions are important when you're short.

I'm 5' 1... LOL

 

[Nancy]

I'm 5' 1... LOL

Ahaha...yes, fractions are important to us shorties! I'm 5' 1 and 3/4 :)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This post is not about the evils of abortion nor whether or not one party is worse than the other. May I suggest you go back and read my OP? We as His people are far more involved in this world than in the kingdom of God. If we put as much effort into seeking the kingdom of God to come to the forefront inside us as we do defending whatever political stance we think is 'the more godly one', the church would again turn the world upside down.

That day IS coming, but it will not come without some very dark days to get through. At some point in time, we will be faced with the understanding that all that we seem to hold precious is going to be dissolved, and finally, we will take seriously God's call to walk in holiness. It is the call of the hour.

And if we simply do not know how, then is it not time to focus on crying out to God as how this is to be accomplished in our lives? Should we not cease from being content just to be forgiven and to actually desire what God desires for us, that we know how to possess our vessels in sanctification and honor, with willful sin seen only in our rear view mirrors?

We can convince ourselves that politics will be our expression of "doing God's will" on the earth, but God is very clear. He wants us to personally cease from all willful sins. He wants us to fully surrender to His will for us. He wants us to run our race as if there is but one prize, and we are determined to be the one who stands victorious.

So, honesty is imperative here. Is this our heart on the matter as well? And if not, what will it take for that to change? Because if needs be, that is what our faithful God will bring about to bear on our lives, because He loves us far too much to let us continue on the road we currently find ourselves, for danger here is great.

I pray we stop using Romans 7 as our excuse for earthly-mindedness and finally awake to the truth that Paul could not stand that part of him that constantly failed God, that constantly gave into temptation, and his deliverance from 'the body of this death' coincided perfectly with his refusal to accept spiritual bondage to sin and self as the best Christ can do to set us free indeed this side of Heaven.

blessings,

Gideon

Participating in govt. can be a carnal endeavor. Anything can be a carnal endeavor. All depends on where our heart is at. But as this thread is a discussion about politics, politics will be teh main focus discussed here. That does not mean people are being carnal or focusing on earth instead of heaven, or anything like that (unless that of course is their heat motive). But for me, it is a discussion of what is going on around us, to be aware, to pray intelligently and to know what we may expect coming down the road.

That doesn't mean I am not trusting god, but only a fool will not prepare is they hear a big storm is coming.

 

[Ziggy]

So Joseph was 2nd to Pharaoh,
Daniel was 2nd to Nebuchadnezzar
Esther replaced Vashti and became Queen
David ruled a Kingdom
Moses established a nation..

what's so political about that?

 

[Enoch111]

Ahaha...yes, fractions are important to us shorties! I'm 5' 1 and 3/4 :)

That should have been shown as a DECIMAL fraction.

 

[Enoch111]

Remember God has little to nothing to do with gentile nations.

On what grounds do you make this assertion? God has everything to do with the Gentile nations, and at this point in history He desires the salvation of all the Gentiles. Indeed He commands all men EVERYWHERE to repent.

 

[marks]

On what grounds do you make this assertion? God has everything to do with the Gentile nations, and at this point in history He desires the salvation of all the Gentiles. Indeed He commands all men EVERYWHERE to repent.

Why, I was just having this conversation with my wife this morning. She's talking about concerns over God being in judgment against the US, but while God dealt with national entities before, now - just like you said - He commands everyone to repent, we're all one-on-one with Him now. And judgment is individually, right now.

Of course . . . that'll change . . .

Much love!

 

[WaterSong]

I'm 5' 1... LOL

What? No fraction? ;)

 

[Ziggy]

What? No fraction? ;)

The last time I had my height measured was like 6 years ago.
I probably shrunk since then. Hours leaning over the keyboard having rounded my shoulders.
Last time it was 5'1" no decimals..
I'm going to keep that. It's what my drivers licence says, so.. lol
I notice the shelves at the grocery store are getting taller however..

:)
Hugs

 

[WaterSong]

If we are so godly, why are even teh sometime church attenders so illiterate of simple Bible Truths?

I don't know that I would broad brush people in that way.

As for any particular Christian being unaware of Bible truths, perhaps it is the responsibility of their pastor. Perhaps there isn't a Bible study group available. Perhaps they don't schedule time to study on their own. Perhaps they're a member of a denomination that doesn't teach Bible truth.

why does America lead in crime, abortions, alcoholism, we have a pandemic of drug use, etc.etc.etc. If we are as godly as raw statistics show this would not be.

I haven't seen any tables that show that to be the case compared to all nations in the world.

Attending church does not make on godly anymore than walking into a McDonalds makes one a Big Mac!

Yes, I saw that bumper sticker as well. Only it referred to a car and garage.

Really? show me in the constitution where it says a woman has a right to kill that human being in her womb. It is not a dog or cat growing inside of her, but a human being with a complete DNA profile.

The SCOTUS found it was a matter of a woman's right to privacy. Personal opinions stop at the womb of another person.
Giving birth doesn't make someone a mother. How many newborn babies enter this world addicted to drugs? Because their womb donor was a junkie who stayed high all nine months of their gestation!

Ever heard a baby coming off of drugs they've been fed for nine months cry? I have. I was a volunteer in a newborn nursery. One patient only delivered her addicted little one because no matter how much heroine she shot up that pesky pain in her stomach wouldn't go away. So finally , she decided to go to the hospital.

That was a candidate for sterilization. And believe me, the nurses I worked with were more than ready to schedule an OR for the procedure.

And what chance does that newborn life have being a junkie drying out before they're a day old in this world?

But you think that the non-Christians have a moral right to pass ungodly laws? And force us to pay for their ideologies through taxation?
But as a nation we do!

Ungodly laws?
Ever lived in Iran? Ever visited? That nation is ruled by Islam's Sharia law.
As is Saudi Arabia. Only recently were women there given the right to drive. Prior to that? If caught, they were beheaded.

It's so easy to imagine it would be great to live in a country ruled by one's religious laws. Until the laws are prosecuted. And to which end of the spectrum would that occur in America? Extreme fundamentalists? Like in Iran with the extremist Islamists and their religious laws?
We pay taxes and we obey the laws because the laws don't infringe on our religious freedoms. Or anyone elses. Thank GOD for America.

Some of us are all fired up for America to become a Christian Theocracy. Oh, what a better place we'd have if everyone, all 300 million + lived by "God's laws".
It would be awesome!
Look at these forums. The BDF (Bible Discussion Forum) in most any Christian online community is a battlefield of ideologies. Every individual posting believes they know what the Bible says, and what they believe about that. And they all think they're right. And if they clash? How do we act toward one another?
How do we speak to one another?

Walk into a church Bible study and suggest a topic. Sit back and observe everyone sharing their opinion of one subject. Are they all the same opinion? Do they all agree as one?

Look at the denominations in Christianity. Look at the versions of the Bible available. All different philosophies, doctrines, all different wording in the scripture. Versions.
Some versions omit "son of God" from scripture. Why? It made news years ago. To pander to the Muslims who may be offended!
No, I'm not kidding.

Now imagine America becoming a Theocratic Christian nation. Our laws are written to represent God's laws.
OK.
Now, being we are a melting pot, and our former first amendment insured everyone of any faith had the right to believe and practice freely. Even atheists are protected under the first amendment.

What now? What do we do with the millions of people here who aren't Christian?

Gay pride parades, textbooks, sensitivity classes required for workers to make sure they don't offend gays and the other 47 newly created genders. We even have whole denominations that are "accepting churches". And by this I do not mean welcoming them in to hear the gospel in hopes of salvationa dn repentance, but welcoming them as gay and that they can be in right standing with God as practicing gays. The church which is 200 yards away from my home part of an "accepting" denomination, has a lesbian pastor.

And you don't attend that church. That's your right.

We're told pastors, those who choose to teach God's word, will answer to a higher standard when they meet God.

Those pastors of those churches overlook that part of the Bible. But it will be brought to their attention in due time.
It isn't a sin to be gay you know.

It is a sin to act on the compulsion to be sexually active as a gay person.
We know what God's word says about the sexually immoral.And that they'll not enter into the kingdom. But while they're still alive there is still hope they'll open their eyes. Until then....

Ever wonder if every married couple in your church is monogamous? What of the husband that cheats on that beautiful wife sitting beside him in the pew on Sunday? Or the wife cheating on that husband? Think it is possible?

That's sexual immorality too. But somehow many of us only look to the gays as ones guilty of that sin. And really, who cares people falsely imagine there are 50+ genders? They say this when their bodies tell them they're either one or the other. When their mind say something else, that's mental illness.

We've arrived at a point in history where the inmates not only have the keys to the asylum but are editing the diagnostic and statistics manual that it reads they're perfectly OK to be whacked in the head. It's lazy and irresponsible. And that is the responsibility of the one's that allow it to happen.

Gender sensitivity training courses? One can refuse that easily enough. And if they're fired, they can draw unemployment and hire a lawyer and make even more money.
Heterophobia is a prosecutable offense too. ;)

Well if you wish I can link you two sites that have the very words of the the founders. I know that Franklin and Jefferson were deists, but they still had a respect for SCripture (except Jefferson later in his life) not all, but there is an archive of legions of the writings of the founders showing that "religion" as a term, normally meant the Christian religion.

I'm aware of such sites. That founders were Christian and Deist and even atheist is evidence this country was not intended to be a Christian theocracy.

When the crown and the church were united in Great Britain, people died horrific deaths for falling short of what the law proclaimed righteous and right living. Hanged, guillotined, burned at the stake, tortured on the rack to confess what the twisted imaginations of the inquisitors wanted to hear that accused heretic admit to. Believing them to have run afoul of God's laws.

And if that poor tortured soul relented and confessed just to make the evil stop? Ah, guilty after all. Just as was thought. And then they were killed. Not set free.

Only that wasn't to purge the land of so called heretics. Who were often times Protestants. No, in some cases it was because that person owned properties the church or some other interest with connections to the church and or crown wanted. And that owner had previously refused to sell.

But, accuse them of heresy, torture and then kill them, and those lands are now property of the church and state. And lookie there, the lands are now affordable.

None are so powerful or perverse as fallen man thinking they have the right to act as God and judge accordingly.

And yes every law passed is legislating some form of morality and decency and common snense. We cannot legislate it so that it is a heart thing, but an external thing for an orderly and decent society.

If you don't believe that, go found your own country and pass no laws against murder, theft, rape, pedophilia and see how that society does.

You're mistaken.
The laws prosecute the absence of morality, decency and common sense. The laws do not instill them.

Note: Character limits prohibit my replying in one post. Part 2 of my reply follows.

 

[WaterSong]

that is why our founders made sure there was no national denomination like iin Anglican England, Lutheran Germany, Calvinist Sweden, or Catholic Spain, France , Italy. They allowed all denominations free reign.

They allowed all people to live free. Not just Christians.
Pagans, Deists, atheists, agnostics, satanists, etc... are all free to believe and practice, within reason of course, one cannot claim to be a Theistic Satanist and commit to human sacrifice as a religious right.

But all this I say to say this: If we lived in a country that had no elections or laws were forced upon us- so be it.

But we live in a nation where we can vote and have a voice in the government. We should use and not abuse it!

Those of us who vote do use our voice. Our system of representative government allows us to choose who from among the public domain we wish to represent our wishes and best interests.
How's that working out so far?
Without looking, do you know who your representatives in Congress are? Do you know what voting district your home is in?

Paul availed HImself of the political right to appeal directly to Cesar.
shamed a roman guard for whipping him who was a Roman citizen.

That's because Paul was a Roman citizen.

Also we are told to:

1 Timothy 2:1-3
King James Version

2 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

Psalm 33:12
Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.

Paul also said this:
Romans 13:1-7
Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same;read more.

And then there is this.
Submission to Authorities 1 Peter 2:
13 Be subject to every human institution for the Lord’s sake, whether to a king as supreme 14 or to governors as those he commissions to punish wrongdoers and praise those who do good. 15 For God wants you to silence the ignorance of foolish people by doing good. 16 Live as free people, not using your freedom as a pretext for evil, but as God’s slaves. 17 Honor all people, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the king.

Sorry but if I can vote to end the debauchery and butchery of abortion, I will. I cannot legislate one to become a real Christian, but through laws we can have a more orderly society, and if teh government is amenable to believers, to advance the gospel in the nation and around the world .

That's what I'm trying to tell you. Your vote won't make abortion illegal. That's not how it works. Are you aware there are rules controlling abortion access in America now? State by state? abortion restrictions by state 2020 - Bing

And what of those diagnosis wherein a pregnant woman will die if she carries to term?
Would you permit her the right to live by electing to have an abortion to save her life?
Do you volunteer at abortion alternative clinics? Giving frightened girls and women an alternative to abortion through proper guidance and an open heart?

But if we have to meet in secret under fear of imprisionment and death, so be it as well.

It's not that bad as yet. Though in California it is a wait and see.

But if we were to become a Christian nation with laws structured to implement and prosecute God's laws, would those who were non-Christian have to fear and meet in such ways?
For the good of the nation and all.


edited to correct typo. hear to heart.