The cycle of abuse

[stunnedbygrace]

Ok nap time for real now. Be back.

 

[JellyJam]

Um...yes, we all start that way, although some people are just naturally more kind than I ever was.

But my question was if you think that's a fairly accurate description of what you've seen of me, the paragraph I wrote. As I said, its okay if you say yes and you really do see Mr that way, but I don't think you will.

Was the paragraph an accurate description of what you've seen and how I've treated you?

Most Christians that I've met pretty much treat me like dirt. Actually I know only one who didn't, maybe two.

Basically the reason I have ended up where I am now, was because I walked into a bible shop in 1995.

Met a man there who invited me into his home, and then the slow process of indoctrination began. Basically I had all my individuality striped from my soul, just so he'd have another believer he could claim for his own.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

im still trying to determine if you really can't see your own fractures. You seem to not see them, which is why I come to the conclusion that you are lazy with your mind.

As for this last post of yours - days ago, you are the one who said Christians are not capable of reason. But now you have taken the nihilism you are test driving and determined that reason must now be switched off too.

You should keep going. You will have to see for yourself what you wind up with when you turn everything off one by one.

Once you find yourself sitting alone in the dark, you will go back and check your work more carefully.

I am not a nihilist. Your brain simply can't go to heaven with you, that means your beliefs will die with you as well.

Honestly, JellyJam DOES have a belief system. Her/his continual refusal to acknowledge it's existence is likely the product of self awareness (I'm trying to be as respectful as possible when I say that, I apologize if that doesn't convey). Either that or just trolling.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Have you ever noticed each denomination revolves around the errors that divide them from the rest of the body of Christ?

Can't say that I have. Many Christians are quite ignorant of particular doctrines that their denominations teach. It is a point of amusement that RCs are often shocked, when you show them that the RCC teaches, in their doctrine of "transubstantiation," that the communion wafer actually becomes the body and blood of Christ. Theologians are the ones who argue about these things. Once a Christian starts reading the Bible, he/she will often reject specific teachings of their denominations. Why do you suppose that the RCC was historically opposed to the average parishioner reading and studying the Bible? Even today, some priests encourage the reading of the Bible, but I expect many more do not.

 

[Dave L]

Can't say that I have. Many Christians are quite ignorant of particular doctrines that their denominations teach. It is a point of amusement that RCs are often shocked, when you show them that the RCC teaches, in their doctrine of "transubstantiation," that the communion wafer actually becomes the body and blood of Christ. Theologians are the ones who argue about these things. Once a Christian starts reading the Bible, he/she will often reject specific teachings of their denominations. Why do you suppose that the RCC was historically opposed to the average parishioner reading and studying the Bible? Even today, some priests encourage the reading of the Bible, but I expect many more do not.

If you want to spot the errors, see what divides them from the rest.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Most Christians that I've met pretty much treat me like dirt. Actually I know only one who didn't, maybe two.

Basically the reason I have ended up where I am now, was because I walked into a bible shop in 1995.

Met a man there who invited me into his home, and then the slow process of indoctrination began. Basically I had all my individuality striped from my soul, just so he'd have another believer he could claim for his own.

Then you met a man who was apparently interested in forming a cult. I have known a lot of Bible teachers over the years (the only perfect one is the Holy Spirit--see 1 John 2:27) but I have never known one who "stripped the individuality" from the soul of anyone. Sounds quite dramatic but I am left asking how that could happen, and even if it was possible, how could it happen without your cooperation? Are you taking some kind of mind-altering drug? Were you then?

 

[JellyJam]

Honestly, JellyJam DOES have a belief system. Her/his continual refusal to acknowledge it's existence is likely the product of self awareness (I'm trying to be as respectful as possible when I say that, I apologize if that doesn't convey). Either that or just trolling.

Well in fairness I can say that I possess a few beliefs here and there (I never said I didn't) Although the difference is very simple. If I form an opinion or believe something about my reality that I can't verify, I don't actually accept what idea I've constructed as a plain fact. I'd be completely delusional if I did that. What's your aim here Jane? What are you expecting me to do? Accept my belief in Jesus as a fact? Without verifying it first. Just accept what I believe, that's what your saying.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

If you want to spot the errors, see what divides them from the rest.

Yes, I expect you are right about that.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Most Christians that I've met pretty much treat me like dirt. Actually I know only one who didn't, maybe two.

Basically the reason I have ended up where I am now, was because I walked into a bible shop in 1995.

Met a man there who invited me into his home, and then the slow process of indoctrination began. Basically I had all my individuality striped from my soul, just so he'd have another believer he could claim for his own.

Woe to you hypocrites, you cross land and sea to make a convert and then you make him twice the son of hell that you are.

Jesus said that.

It seems to me you would LIKE Jesus, since you actually agree with Him.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Most Christians that I've met pretty much treat me like dirt. Actually I know only one who didn't, maybe two.

Basically the reason I have ended up where I am now, was because I walked into a bible shop in 1995.

Met a man there who invited me into his home, and then the slow process of indoctrination began. Basically I had all my individuality striped from my soul, just so he'd have another believer he could claim for his own.

But you still haven't answered my question. You thought Corinthians 13 was a fairly good description of love in action. And you thought I wasn't showing love. So I plugged my name into cor 13 and showed what the opposite of love would look like. From the little you know of me ( just me, not any other people) does that accurately describe me? Is that how I have been with you in our conversations?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Well in fairness I can say that I possess a few beliefs here and there (I never said I didn't) Although the difference is very simple. If I form an opinion or believe something about my reality that I can't verify, I don't actually accept what idea I've constructed as a plain fact. I'd be completely delusional if I did that. What's your aim here Jane? What are you expecting me to do? Accept my belief in Jesus as a fact? Without verifying it first. Just accept what I believe, that's what your saying.

No, I'm not trying to "bring you to Jesus". You're an intelligent human being that can do investigations and make decisions on your own.

I ma trying to have a productive conversation though. Recaping the last bit of this thread: you've complained that people share their beliefs, and stated that you do not have any beliefs- which is false, you have beliefs and you do share them. Which, with all due respect, made your stance here to be either hypocritical or very self unaware.

If you're willing to acknowledge the fact that you do have belief and you do share them with others (like every other human being), then we could maybe move forward to have a productive conversation and address any points you would like to discuss.

 

[amadeus]

ah, this is maybe what I meant to ask @amadeus, if he knew of any Pent type leanings in Germany pre Hitler

Sorry my friend but I have no knowledge of any... When I was in Germany as a student [1969-1970] I was nominally still a Catholic but actually I had no real affiliation with any church group at the time. I attended no place and had not yet read a Bible for the first time. I've not read anything in particular that I can recall regarding Pentecostalism in Germany...

 

[JellyJam]

But you still haven't answered my question. You thought Corinthians 13 was a fairly good description of love in action. And you thought I wasn't showing love. So I plugged my name into cor 13 and showed what the opposite of love would look like. From the little you know of me ( just me, not any other people) does that accurately describe me? Is that how I have been with you in our conversations?

Yes, and it was very creative. If you really want me to tell you if you meseaure up to Corinthians 13, I'd say that it seems you fit some of those monster abilities you outlined.

 

[JellyJam]

No, I'm not trying to "bring you to Jesus". You're an intelligent human being that can do investigations and make decisions on your own.

I ma trying to have a productive conversation though. Recaping the last bit of this thread: you've complained that people share their beliefs, and stated that you do not have any beliefs- which is false, you have beliefs and you do share them. Which, with all due respect, made your stance here to be either hypocritical or very self unaware.

If you're willing to acknowledge the fact that you do have belief and you do share them with others (like every other human being), then we could maybe move forward to have a productive conversation and address any points you would like to discuss.

You're adomishing me to have beliefs here. You know what mean?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes, and it was very creative. If you really want me to tell you if you meseaure up to Corinthians 13, I'd say that it seems you fit some of those monster abilities you outlined.

Nice try, no cigar!

You thought I wasn't showing love to you, we settled on a definition so I could examine if I showed you love or did not.

I asked if you thought my paragraph was a good depiction of me and how I have acted toward you and treated you. For some reason, you don't want to answer. But its okay, give it some more thought if you still aren't sure.

 

[JellyJam]

Woe to you hypocrites, you cross land and sea to make a convert and then you make him twice the son of hell that you are.

Jesus said that.

It seems to me you would LIKE Jesus, since you actually agree with Him.

Me and Jesus sitting on a tree.

 

[JellyJam]

Nice try, no cigar!

You thought I wasn't showing love to you, we settled on a definition so I could examine if I showed you love or did not.

I asked if you thought my paragraph was a good depiction of me and how I have acted toward you and treated you. For some reason, you don't want to answer. But its okay, give it some more thought if you still aren't sure.

Fair enough SBG.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Me and Jesus sitting on a tree.

Just pointing out what Jesus said and what you told us about your experience are very similar. He seems to agree with you there.

And if we plug JJ and the bible shop guy into it, do we come away with: woe to you, JJ? No. We come away with: woe to you, bible shop guy!

You were seeking to maybe enter in. He used religion to prevent it. He will receive the greater condemnation.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

You're adomishing me to have beliefs here. You know what mean?

Except that you DO have beliefs. We just went over that.

I'm really being forced to conclude that you are either trolling and/or extremely self unaware.

 

[JellyJam]

Just pointing out what Jesus said and what you told us about your experience are very similar. He seems to agree with you there.

And if we plug JJ and the bible shop guy into it, do we come away with: woe to you, JJ? No. We come away with: woe to you, bible shop guy!

You were seeking to maybe enter in. He used religion to prevent it. He will receive the greater condemnation.

I don't see it that way. If it's love Jesus is preaching then he really shouldn't be saying woe.