The Crucified Flesh

[Ritajanice]

None-to be blunt.

That’s very interesting.

 

[Johann]

Not at all, as I’ve tried to explain, it’s self explanatory, to me anyway.

Shalom.

 

[Ritajanice]

Shalom.

Peace back to you.

 

[Johann]

That’s very interesting.

Very interesting indeed-Calvin versus Arminian

Rom 6 has been dealt with, carefully, glory/doxa/kadosh to YHVH.

Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Let God be found true (ginesthō ho theos alēthēs). “Let God continue to be true” (present middle imperative).

But every man a liar (pās de anthrōpos pseustēs). The contrast in de really means, “though every man be found a liar.” Cf. Psa_116:12.

As it is written (kathōs gegraptai). Psa_51:6.

That thou mightest be justified (hopōs an dikaiōthēis). Hopōs rather than the common hina for purpose and an with the first aorist passive subjunctive of dikaioō. Used of God this verb here has to mean “declared righteous,” not “made righteous.”

Mightest prevail (nikēseis). Future active indicative with hopōs of nikaō, to win a victory, though B L have nikēsēis (first aorist active subjunctive, the usual construction).
When thou comest into judgement (en tōi krinesthai se). “In the being judged as to thee” (present passive infinitive or, if taken as middle, “in the entering upon trial as to thee”). Common construction in the lxx from the Hebrew infinitive construct.
Robertson.

God forbid: Rom_3:6, Rom_3:31, Rom_6:2, Rom_6:15, Rom_7:7, Rom_7:13, Rom_9:14, Rom_11:1, Rom_11:11; Luk_20:16; 1Co_6:15; Gal_2:17, Gal_2:21; Gal_6:14
let God: Deu_32:4; Job_40:8; Psa_100:5, Psa_119:160, Psa_138:2; Mic_7:20; Joh_3:33; 2Co_1:18; Tit_1:2; Heb_6:18; 1Jn_5:10, 1Jn_5:20; Rev_3:7
but every: Psa_62:9, Psa_116:11
That thou: Job_36:3; Psa_51:4; Mat_11:19

Have a blessed day.

 

[Ritajanice]

Very interesting indeed-Calvin versus Arminian

Indeed, are there many Calvinists/ Arminian on this forum?

 

[Johann]

Indeed, are there many Calvinists/ Arminian on this forum?

Many-and that's where discernment is Imperative-the God given ability to discern error from truth.

 

[ChristisGod]

Many believe the 5 points of TULIP.....I agree with a few.

Do you believe any of his points?

I use to believe all of them and now none of them. They all hinge upon one another- they are either all true or they are all false. Even Calvinist theologians agree with what I just said. Lorraine Boettner being one of the most famous has said the above.

Loraine Boettner has stated on p. 59 of his book, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination,

"prove any one of them true and all of the others will follow as logical and necessary parts of the system. Prove any one of them false and the whole system must be abandoned."


God is resistible as we read in both Testaments below. The " I " in TULIP stands for irresistable grace.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,


Since all men are not saved and Gids grace goes out to all men, Gods grace can be resisted.



Acts 7:51
“You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!


God the Holy Spirit can be resisted.



Hebrews 10:29
How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Here we see the Spirit of grace resisted, insulted, rejected and trampled under.


Hebrews 6:4-8
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.


Here we have those receiving Gods grace sharing in the Holy Spirit of grace reject it. They have fallen away permanently from His grace and can no longer repent.


Psalm 78:17;40
But they continued to sin against Him, rebelling in the desert against the Most High. How often they disobeyed Him in the wilderness and grieved Him in the desert!


Here we see them in the wilderness rejecting Gods grace upon them and grieving God in the process.

conclusion: just 1 passage showing God can be resisted is enough to prove it is true. But as we see there are plenty of passages which prove man can resist God. I affirm the famous Calvinists position that "prove any one of them true and all of the others will follow as logical and necessary parts of the system. Prove any one of them false and the whole system must be abandoned." Lorraine Boettner

As we see above grace is resistible which makes tulip invalid. The doctrines of grace are actually the doctrines of un-grace.

Jesus in this one parable refutes all 5 points of Calvinism

Matthew 13
1The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.
2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.


18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.


19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

T- man can choose to hear, see and receive the gospel
U- all can choose to believe and receive as demonstrated in the parable of the 4 soils
L- all soils received the seed without exception
I- 3 soils resisted all but 1 soil remained faithful and did not resist
P- 3/4 soils ( minds/hearts )did not persevere in the faith

* And as we can see they all had life to begin with in each soil. Only something alive can be choked. You cannot choke the dead lol.
* And only something alive can be scorched by the Sun and withered.
* Only someone alive can receive the word in the heart and have it snatched away
* Only someone alive can receive the word with Joy and endure for a while

I was pondering for any possible connection between the Wedding Garment parable and this Sower parable. It could be that the Sower parable explains a lot of what transpires within the Wedding Garment parable. The 4 examples of soils could be a more focused description of what happened to all those who were called. The first soil could be somewhat related to those who killed the wedding messenger, driven by the evil one. The second or third soil could be the "friend" in the wedding garment parable who was called but for some reason never got or lost his garment. The 4th soil are all other called people who made their calling and election sure.

hope this helps !!!

 

[amigo de christo]

Many-and that's where discernment is Imperative-the God given ability to discern error from truth.

Men have caused discernement , correction , truth , warnings and all that was and is good for the body of Christ
to now be disregaurded .
But let us keep it real simple . Let all warnings , reminders , truth simply be spoken or typed .
It falls where it falls my friend .
For years folks have come against what they call bitter . But some do hear . The truth
simply must be spoken and it shall fall upon whom it shall fall .
Men , who crept in to decieve , have taught the peoples to beware what things you do say .
That speaking truths might harm some or run some off . But i say , SIMPLY SPEAK THE WORD
and GOD alone shall plant it and many will reject it . Let he or she who has ears to hear
simply love and embrace all reminders of all holy scrips . Whether grave or compassionate
whether by fear hating even the garment spotted by the flesh . JUST SPEAK , TYPE and DO as the SPIRIT BIDS TO DO .
For years many have fought the things that were not smooth sounding unto them .
And have balked and accused anyone who comes to truly exhort .
Many have said AWAY with the pure and holy unadulterated words of GOD . GIVE US NO MORE warnings
TELL US NO MORE about repentance , GIVE US this inclusive love god that tells us all is fine , all religoins are good
and we are fine as is .

 

[Ritajanice]

I use to believe all of them and now none of them. They all hinge upon one another- they are either all true or they are all false. Even Calvinist theologians agree with what I just said. Lorraine Boettner being one of the most famous has said the above.

Thanks for the info....many wouldn’t agree with you and others, that God’s Grace can’t be resisted....I guess this is the difference between what Calvin teaches and Arminians teach the opposite...it’s been argued down the centuries.

 

[amigo de christo]

Many have come to and embraced an ideal , an image of JESUS that is not JESUS
and an image of GOD that is not GOD . They follow a love that cometh not of GOD but is of the world .
Correction shall not cease . Nor the words of truth from the mouth of a lamb . For it is GOD who giveth .
The warnings are for OUR GOOD and not for our destruction . That we be mindful of all things written and follow
THAT GOD and HIS CHRIST . A serious , grievious and deadly error has occured .
The leaders preach smooth things unto the people , they are for numbers and money and have made the church
into their business and a business . They have preached a gospel that cannot save
and a love that is not of GOD and worse the peoples love to have it so . But what will ye do in the END thereof .

 

[amigo de christo]

They have made buddy jesus who gets us . But that is NO JESUS .
JESUS came not to accept our sinful ways nor to embrace the sinner IN HIS SINFUL ways .
HE came to SAVE SINNERS from THEIR WAYS . To give them a new heart
that loveth what GOD LOVES and not what the world loves .

 

[amigo de christo]

He was crucified for our sins and raised again for our justification that we would walk in rigtheousness by the power of the SPIRIT .
If ya jesus is holding rainbows , big on pro nouns , claiming muslims and others follow GOD or know GOD . IT AINT JESUS .
IF we want to know the JESUS we follow IS THE TRUE JESUS CHRIST , i suggest we DELVE DEEP into the gospels .
IF we want to know if our leaders truly follow the pattern the apostels set and taught , I SUGGEST WE DELVE DEEP INTO THEIR LETTERS .
cause men are DECIEVING US . Wolves in sheeps clothing have infiltrated many houses and many churches .

 

[ChristisGod]

Thanks for the info....many wouldn’t agree with you and others, that God’s Grace can’t be resisted....I guess this is the difference between what Calvin teaches and Arminians teach the opposite...it’s been argued down the centuries.

Here is the problem and I speak from personal experience with calvinism for over 4 decades as I taught it for years. Calvinists defend their doctrines at all costs and refuse to see the other side of the argument. I know I did it myself. Its a "blindness" that is self afflicted to defend their TULIP. The whole system stands or falls on each point. Destroy or prove one of them wrong and it all comes tumbling down. God opened my eyes and heart on this over a 2 year period. What I learned through this journey and study is that the doctrines of grace ( TULIP ) is an assault on the nature and character of God. It makes God actually unloving and unjust. I can prove it from scripture.

hope this helps !!!

 

[amigo de christo]

The true leaders of any churches would not have changed their message to appease and to please the crowd .
They would have simply been concerned with the welfare of their soul .
The message has been changed and more so as time goes on .
Till now if one even asks questions concering certain sins and ideals , they are asked to leave the churches .
Away with the true and holy biblical pattern and all who teach it has now become the mantra .
As the leaders preach ever smooth things unto their ever ready ears . The lambs heed them not .
The lambs shall contend for the one true faith , following the SPIRIT and all sound doctrine that was given us in the bible for our learning .

 

[amigo de christo]

Here is the problem and I speak from personal experience with calvinism for over 4 decades as I taught it for years. Calvinists defend their doctrines at all costs and refuse to see the other side of the argument. I know I did it myself. Its a "blindness" that is self afflicted to defend their TULIP. The whole system stands or falls on each point. Destroy or prove one of them wrong and it all comes tumbling down. God opened my eyes and heart on this over a 2 year period. What I learned through this journey and study is that the doctrines of grace ( TULIP ) is an assault on the nature and character of God. It makes God actually unloving and unjust. I can prove it from scripture.

hope this helps !!!

GODS call is this . LET WHO SO EVER WILL COME AND DRINK of the waters of life .
The simplicity of it all , is that GOD Desires not the death of the wicked but rather they would repent .
And HE SAYS THIS often . WHY will you die . This is all over the scriptures as well as the letters of the apostels .
AS well as the good example given us by CHRIST as HE WEPT over JERUSALEM
saying HOW OFTEN would I HAVE GATHERED YOU , ONLY YOU , that is right , YOU WOULD NOT .

 

[Ritajanice]

Here is the problem and I speak from personal experience with calvinism for over 4 decades as I taught it for years. Calvinists defend their doctrines at all costs and refuse to see the other side of the argument. I know I did it myself. Its a "blindness" that is self afflicted to defend their TULIP. The whole system stands or falls on each point. Destroy or prove one of them wrong and it all comes tumbling down. God opened my eyes and heart on this over a 2 year period. What I learned through this journey and study is that the doctrines of grace ( TULIP ) is an assault on the nature and character of God. It makes God actually unloving and unjust. I can prove it from scripture.

hope this helps !!!

Very interesting insight here, why would anyone want to defend TULIP....I have defended what I believe to be the truth of God’s word....which John Calvin also taught and believed, I do agree with the irresistible grace, I certainly will never argue over that again, it’s fruitless, but, I can’t and won’t deny what I believe.....when one is birthed in the Spirit,God’s Love is irresistible and that’s what penetrates our heart/ spirit, if God chooses to make us born again, a human can’t birth themselves in the Spirit.its a supernatural act that only God can do...Spirit gives birth to spirit ....that has been my belief from day one...not forcing others to believe that....

There are many believers who do believe a few of his points...some believe all......I strongly believe in irresistible grace.....I haven’t studied the other 4 points to be honest...not even sure what they are or what they stand for, apart from the I in tulip.

Just found this online from John Piper...I have to agree with this.only there was no resistance from me,LOL.

And when I say it’s irresistible grace, I certainly do not mean you can’t resist it. Irresistible grace is often laughed out of court by pointing to obvious texts in the Bible that say we do resist the Holy Spirit, and they’re all over the place, right? For example, Acts 7:51 says, “You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you.” And then here’s this kook John Piper who talks about irresistible grace. And some might say, “Well, that’s ridiculous. Of course, it’s not irresistible because the Bible says it can be resisted. So stop talking about irresistible grace.”

“If my believing were to depend entirely on me or decisively on me, I would not believe and neither would you.”

Well, no, I’m not going to stop talking about it because all it means is whenever God pleases, he overcomes your resistance. He can let you resist him as long as he wants, but when he decides, he triumphs. He did that for me. If you’re a Christian, he did it for you. He gets all the praise for overcoming our rebellion. We didn’t overcome our deadness, and our rebellion, and our blindness. He triumphed in our lives. We want him to get glory for this. We want to know how secure we are in him.

 

[amigo de christo]

Here is the problem and I speak from personal experience with calvinism for over 4 decades as I taught it for years. Calvinists defend their doctrines at all costs and refuse to see the other side of the argument. I know I did it myself. Its a "blindness" that is self afflicted to defend their TULIP. The whole system stands or falls on each point. Destroy or prove one of them wrong and it all comes tumbling down. God opened my eyes and heart on this over a 2 year period. What I learned through this journey and study is that the doctrines of grace ( TULIP ) is an assault on the nature and character of God. It makes God actually unloving and unjust. I can prove it from scripture.

hope this helps !!!

Many wont preach the LOVE of GOD .
For GOD so loved , LOVED , the WORLD that HE SENT His only begotten son
that all who do BELIEVE would not PERISH but have everlasting life . Too many try and air condition hell instead
and say things like a loving GOD would not do that .
RATHER , i say , PREACH THE LOVE OF GOD that does SAVE the one who does believe .
They act as though the biblical version of GOD dont love cause of a place called the lake of fire .
BUT I SAY , OH YES HE DOES LOVE , ITS WHY HE SENT CHRIST . NOW BELIEVE YE IN HIM .
They omit the severity of GOD and wont even preach HIS GOODNESS . they give a false illusion of what love is and GOD is .
But again i say , GOD DOES LOVE , HE SENT THE SON , the SON SUFFERED MASSIVE , NOW BELIEVE AND RECIEVE .

 

[Keturah]

Very interesting insight here, why would anyone want to defend TULIP....I have defended what I believe to be the truth of God’s word....which John Calvin also taught and believed, I do agree with the irresistible grace, I certainly will never argue over that again, it’s fruitless, but, I can’t and won’t deny what I believe.....when one is birthed in the Spirit,God’s Love is irresistible and that’s what penetrates our heart/ spirit, if God chooses to make us born again, a human can’t birth themselves in the Spirit.its a supernatural act that only God can do...Spirit gives birth to spirit ....that has been my belief from day one...not forcing others to believe that....

There are many believers who do believe a few of his points...some believe all......I strongly believe in irresistible grace.....I haven’t studied the other 4 points to be honest...not even sure what they are or what they stand for, apart from the I in tulip.

Just found this online from John Piper...I have to agree with this.only there was no resistance from me,LOL.

And when I say it’s irresistible grace, I certainly do not mean you can’t resist it. Irresistible grace is often laughed out of court by pointing to obvious texts in the Bible that say we do resist the Holy Spirit, and they’re all over the place, right? For example, Acts 7:51 says, “You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you.” And then here’s this kook John Piper who talks about irresistible grace. And some might say, “Well, that’s ridiculous. Of course, it’s not irresistible because the Bible says it can be resisted. So stop talking about irresistible grace.”


Well, no, I’m not going to stop talking about it because all it means is whenever God pleases, he overcomes your resistance. He can let you resist him as long as he wants, but when he decides, he triumphs. He did that for me. If you’re a Christian, he did it for you. He gets all the praise for overcoming our rebellion. We didn’t overcome our deadness, and our rebellion, and our blindness. He triumphed in our lives. We want him to get glory for this. We want to know how secure we are in him.

 

[Jim B]

JESUS warned us . Many false prophets shall abound and shall decieve many .
peter and paul both warned about this too .
The spirit of anti christ , the mystery of inquity has LONG BEEN AT WORK and the falling away IS GOING MASSIVE NOW .
Do not believe this pope francis when it speaks nor any others who are joining hand in hand with the lie .
A lie which cannot save them nor any who follow the lie . A delusion to UNITE all the false to be as one
is GROWING MASSIVE NOW . ITS UNITING politicians , religions , atheists , buddist , sadly christendom
and scores of others under a false love that cannot save them . The delusion of the inclusion cannot be stopped .
IT can only be warned against and we pray some will hear and flee its web of deciet before it is forever too late .
This delusion is leading the world to unite as one and its love embraces sins and lies and the hate against
the TRUTH and those who preach it ONLY INCREASES . A MASSIVE TRIBULATION IS AT THE DOOR .
An all out betrayal is occuring and will occur against the lambs who did not conform to the lie .
JESUS will end this on HIS DAY . But till then prepare to lose all for HIS NAME SAKE .

YAWN!!!

 

[Jim B]

THEY DO NOT KNOW HIM at all sister . IF we can live like the devil and yet find the time to go and confess our sins
in order to feel okay or justified . WE DONT KNOW HIM AT ALL .
JESUS CHANGES the heart . Lambs live for HIM EVERY DAY , not just on a sunday or a confession .
THEY DO NOT KNOW HIM . many dont . I was just like them all once .
worse actually . Yet i had what james would have called and pual would have called and GOD would have called
and CHRIST Would have called DEAD FAITH . IT was LIP SERVICE my heart was far from him .
THEY DO NOT KNOW HIM . WHen GOD drew me to true saving FAITH IN CHRIST
MY HEART ITSELF was CHANGED . WHOLE NEW MIND , WHOLE NEW HEART . AND Guess what those were on
GOD and HIS CHRIST , THE LOVE OF TRUTH . HE DID that . not me . HE DID IT .
Many have not submitted to the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD . They have only submitted unto a man who tickles their ears .

YAWN!!!