The Church The Papacy Says You Should Join

[Phoneman777]

I wish there were a purgatory! Ha! No second chances after death...I can see how comforting this erroneous doctrine can be.

Down here we have "Mardi Gras" which means "Fat Tuesday" where on the day before you go to catholic church on "Ash Wednesday" to show God how holy you are, you get to wrap up a weeks long sin-binge where indulgence of every conceivable lust, be it sex, drugs, rock 'n' roll, whatever is sanctioned by the church, in order to "purge" those sins from one's flesh.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the indulgence of sin gratify the flesh for a moment, only to be followed by the return of the desire to do it again, but with even more fervency?

 

[Nancy]

Down here we have "Mardi Gras" which means "Fat Tuesday" where on the day before you go to catholic church on "Ash Wednesday" to show God how holy you are, you get to wrap up a weeks long sin-binge where indulgence of every conceivable lust, be it sex, drugs, rock 'n' roll, whatever is sanctioned by the church, in order to "purge" those sins from one's flesh.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the indulgence of sin gratify the flesh for a moment, only to be followed by the return of the desire to do it again, but with even more fervency?

Oh yes, even though I am not in NO, they do the same here and I never quite understood how Mardi Gras could be a "good thing". I see it as pure debauchery, through and through. They do the beads and the bars around here too. Did not know the CC condoned this!??

 

[Phoneman777]

You know Phony,

You’ve done a nice job of describing every organization run by human beings on Earth

Easy on the venom, Asp, I've described no such thing. What other organization on Earth has existed since 538 A.D. as an institution of corruption so much so that 16th century calls to "drain the papal swamp" were so opposed by the papacy that the saints couldn't take it anymore and broke away during the Protestant Reformation in order to bring the light of truth to a world shrouded in the Egyptian darkness of papal reign...and your church has done nothing but dig in its heels since?

You are confusing the one idea of human organizations, whatever they may be, having to beat back the inevitable entrance of corrupting influences - with the idea of the papacy as being so corrupt that they literally hand out awards for the most diabolical crimes that can be perped, as in the case of Cardinal Law.

 

[Phoneman777]

Oh yes, even though I am not in NO, they do the same here and I never quite understood how Mardi Gras could be a "good thing". I see it as pure debauchery, through and through. They do the beads and the bars around here too. Did not know the CC condoned this!??

My dear sister, Mardi Gras is a catholic holiday. In paganism, Tammuz (mentioned in Ezekiel) dies and his mother goes searching for him for forty days, during which time the people were to fast and afflict themselves while she was gone searching the underworld, only for her to return afterward and proclaim him reborn as the Sun god. This "miracle" was commemorated on "the first Sunday after the first full moon after the Spring Equinox", and the previous 40 days were set aside every years for the fast...which days leading up to that 40 days fast were filled with such unimaginable debauchery as only sexually licentious pagan religion can conjure.

The catholic church baptized this pagan debauchery. The papacy calculates "Easter" as happening "the first Sunday after the first full moon after the Spring Equinox" and sets aside the previous 40 days as "Lent" when a good catholic is to "give up" something (down here, the men usually give up booze and the women usually a delicacy) --- and the days leading up to "Lent" ramp up to DEFCON 1 levels of licentiousness that would make a demon blush, only to culminate on "Fat Tuesday", after which you get that swipe of ashes to show everyone what a saint you are after weeks of serving in the demonic ranks of Satan. They don't call catholicism "baptized paganism" for nothing LOL

 

[Philip James]

I'm especially impressed with Polycarp's devotion to God and his bravery for offering up his life as a testimony written in his blood.

Cool. Would you then agree that Ignatius was bishop of the Church in Antioch?
As for the others you mentioned, they come much later, and I will gladly examine them with you, after we have finished the 2nd century ok?

Peace!

 

[amadeus]

The metaphors of gold, silver, and precious stones apply to works which will have eternal value. Wood, hay, and stubble apply to works which will be worthless. Hence they will be metaphorically burned up. It is not the souls and spirits of Christians but THEIR WORKS which are being judged.

But if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire.

The key is the foundation. Even with the very best of building materials put together with the most skillful of hands, without the proper foundation, will not stand:

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ." I Cor 3:11
Our foundation must Jesus Christ, the Rock, or...

"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."
Matt 7:24-27

 

[farouk]

The key is the foundation. Even with the very best of building materials put together with the most skillful of hands, without the proper foundation, will not stand:

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ." I Cor 3:11
Our foundation must Jesus Christ, the Rock, or...

"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."
Matt 7:24-27

Great verses there; and Ephesians 4 also stresses the great importance of truth and doctrine for those who stand and grow into their glorious Head, and are not 'tossed to and fro'.

 

[aspen]

Easy on the venom, Asp, I've described no such thing. What other organization on Earth has existed since 538 A.D. as an institution of corruption so much so that 16th century calls to "drain the papal swamp" were so opposed by the papacy that the saints couldn't take it anymore and broke away during the Protestant Reformation in order to bring the light of truth to a world shrouded in the Egyptian darkness of papal reign...and your church has done nothing but dig in its heels since?

You are confusing the one idea of human organizations, whatever they may be, having to beat back the inevitable entrance of corrupting influences - with the idea of the papacy as being so corrupt that they literally hand out awards for the most diabolical crimes that can be perped, as in the case of Cardinal Law.

Give me a break! The very fact that the Catholic Church is 2000+ years old and made up of 1.2 billion people invites corruption and bureaucracy - if it wasn’t Christ’s Church it would have burst into flames during any point in history. God has protected the Church from itself for centuries and with continue to do so until His work is completed. The Church is a hospital and Jesus came to heal the sick, not to gather sinless people to rule over the unsaved.

The Catholic Church is your church centuries from now and inflated to 1.2 billion people - oh wait....you guys like to avoid growth and responsibility by shattering into hundreds of denominations whenever your egos decide to disagree - nevermind

 

[Phoneman777]

Cool. Would you then agree that Ignatius was bishop of the Church in Antioch?
As for the others you mentioned, they come much later, and I will gladly examine them with you, after we have finished the 2nd century ok?

Peace!

Are you interested in a study into Historicism?

 

[farouk]

Hi Nancy,
Purgatory is not a 'second chance' it is this:

the work of each will come to light, for the Day will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire (itself) will test the quality of each one's work.

If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage.

But if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire.

Peace be with you!

My understanding is that Biblical purgatory - the place where sins were purged - happened in full at the Cross: Hebrews 1: "He ... by Himself purged our sins" and is now seated at the right hand of God.

 

[Phoneman777]

Give me a break! The very fact that the Catholic Church is 2000+ years old and made up of 1.2 billion people invites corruption and bureaucracy

I'm glad we can agree on that. Now, why is it that the catholic church went to great lengths to put to death "heretics" but for some reason has tolerated all these "papal heretics" writing "heretical" statements about the popes and the papacy all these centuries?

How many of these "heretic" papist authors who write things like "Lord God the pope" have been put to death?

How many book burnings of these papist heretical authors have taken place like when they used to burn the books of the Protestant Reformers?

How many public denunciations of these papist "heretic" authors and their works have been made by popes or other papal leaders?

 

[aspen]

I'm glad we can agree on that. Now, why is it that the catholic church went to great lengths to put to death "heretics" but for some reason has tolerated all these "papal heretics" writing "heretical" statements about the popes and the papacy all these centuries?

How many of these "heretic" papist authors who write things like "Lord God the pope" have been put to death?

How many book burnings of these papist heretical authors have taken place like when they used to burn the books of the Protestant Reformers?

How many public denunciations of these papist "heretic" authors and their works have been made by popes or other papal leaders?

Sources?

 

[aspen]

I wish there were a purgatory! Ha! No second chances after death...I can see how comforting this erroneous doctrine can be.

Wow! I wish I could meet Jesus in the air, confirming the vast doctrine of the rapture, including; all the Ryrie Bibles and paraphernalia; Left Behind books and movies; all based on the teeniest, tiniest fraction of scripture. Maybe Jesus and I could fly off together to celebrate me making the cut, over milkshake...it feels good to be right!

 

[Philip James]

Are you interested in a study into Historicism?

I am interested in following the community of the apostles down through the centuries... I know the catholic, orthodox and coptic churches can demonstrate the cup being passed from the apostles down to today...
You claim another community is the true church, and so we MUST find that community down through the centuries..,
I pay heed to John's instruction that:

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.

And so i wish to trace this community of yours down through the centuries...

So I ask again is Polycarp part of your community? Is Ignatius?

If they are, let's examine their writings...

If they are not, who from the 2nd century is?

Peace!

 

[Phoneman777]

Sources?

What do you mean, "sources"? Every time we list a source, you, Dead Bread, and other papist sympathizers here say, "oh, that guy is just spouting his opinion" or "that guy was just being poetic" or "that is not an official church position" or "that guy added to what was in the original document"...

Where are the accounts of these "papal heretics" being put to death, their books burned, and papal bulls officially denouncing these "papal heretics" for publishing "falsehoods" about the popes and the papacy?

When has the papacy condemned the "heretic" papist commentator who wrote his gloss on Extravagantes where he by "an act of heresy" added the part about "Our Lord God the pope"?

How can they condemn him when one of the pope's titles is "Vicarius Filii Dei" aka "Vicar of the Son of God" or "In Place of Christ" aka "Anti-Christos", right?

 

[Philip James]

My understanding is that Biblical purgatory - the place where sins were purged - happened in full at the Cross: Hebrews 1: "He ... by Himself purged our sins" and is now seated at the right hand of God.

Purgatory is about temporal consequences not eternal ones...

Purgatory, as in the scripture quoted earlier, is us being made perfect by the consuming fire of our Lord's love, burning away the dross, and all that we have built that's not of HIM!

Peace!

 

[farouk]

Purgatory is about temporal consequences not eternal ones...

Purgatory, as in the scripture quoted earlier, is us being made perfect by the consuming fire of our Lord's love, burning away the dross, and all that we have built that's not of HIM!

Peace!

I was referring to the Biblical use of the word.

 

[aspen]

What do you mean, "sources"? Every time we list a source, you, Dead Bread, and other papist sympathizers here say, "oh, that guy is just spouting his opinion" or "that guy was just being poetic" or "that is not an official church position" or "that guy added to what was in the original document"...

Where are the accounts of these "papal heretics" being put to death, their books burned, and papal bulls officially denouncing these "papal heretics" for publishing "falsehoods" about the popes and the papacy?

When has the papacy condemned the "heretic" papist commentator who wrote his gloss on Extravagance where he by "an act of heresy" added the part about "Our Lord God the pope"?

How can they condemn him when one of the pope's titles is "Vicarius Filii Dei" aka "Vicar of the Son of God" or "In Place of Christ" aka "Anti-Christos", right?

So you would rather rely on you prejudice to pull malicious rumors out of the air?
You forgot about the Pope secretly being a reptilian humanoid....

Extravagantes? The writer sounds very confused - I will check it out

 

[Phoneman777]

So you would rather rely on you prejudice to pull malicious rumors out of the air?
You forgot about the Pope secretly being a reptilian humanoid....

Extravagantes? The writer sounds very confused - I will check it out

One of the first lessons in law school is "never ask a question to which you don't already know the answer" and it seems the first lesson in becoming a papist is "dodge any question for which you don't know the answer".

I asked if you could provide documentation of the papacy putting to death "heretic papists" who write falsely about the papacy, and also that you'd provide papal bulls officially denouncing these "heretic papists" and their works...I already know that you cannot...which proves the papacy condones these blasphemous writings.

 

[aspen]

One of the first lessons in law school is "never ask a question to which you don't already know the answer" and it seems the first lesson in becoming a papist is "dodge any question for which you don't know the answer".

I asked if you could provide documentation of the papacy putting to death "heretic papists" who write falsely about the papacy, and also that you'd provide papal bulls officially denouncing these "heretic papists" and their works...I already know that you cannot...which proves the papacy condones these blasphemous writings.

Sorry, I am interested in having a free conversation, not get led down a path of your making - you are not in charge here. If I wanted to be led around by the nose I would call a Mormon missionary and prepare to be leader of my own planet.

Furthermore, I am not on trial

As far dodging questions - I can dodge any question I want to, anytime I want to and for any reason, boss.

I am also on my own schedule. I am currently researching Extravagantes

I am beginning to get a clearer picture of why you do not like Catholic responses - they do not follow the path you’ve laid out and therefore, they must be presenting lies and dodges and muddying the water - in other words you simply do not like them

Hmm....who was that guy who thinks he is God, again?