The Church The Papacy Says You Should Join

[jaybird]

God is spirit (John 2:24).
However, He manifested Himself as a man (John 1:1, John 1:14).

exactly, the Most High, according to you, is a man, when the Most High says He is not a man. makes no sense at all to me but ok.

WRONG.
I gave you literally DOZENS of verses that state incontrovertibly that God is manifest as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

If that's not enough Scriptural support for you - then you simply lack faith in God and His Word . . .
Genesis 1:26

lets look at the first one.
Genesis 1:26
26 Then God said, “Let us make man[a] in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

i see nothing in this verse saying the Most High is three beings. but according to you, "US" means trinity. so everytime we see the word "us" we need to understand it not as more than one but rather as the trinity. i dont think so.
with respect that is nothing but you reading into the passage what you want to hear, like i said before, without the doctrine no one sees trinity in that passage.
the Father says He is one, Jesus says the Father, His G-D, is one, and all the prophets and patriarchs say the Most High is one, matter of fact no one anywhere in the scripture ever refer to the Most High as "they". why is that?

Matt. 28:19
John 15:26
1 Cor. 12:4-6
2 Cor. 13:14,
1 John 5:7
Ephesians 4:6
Psalm 68:5
Malachi 2:10
Isaiah 63:16
2 Corinthians 1:3-4
John 3:16
John 8:41
1 Thessalonians 3:13
Isaiah 7:14
Isaiah 9:6
Matt. 4:7
John 1:1
ohn 1:3
John 8:58
John 10:30
John 15:9
John 20:28
Acts 5:3-4
2 Corinthians 4:4
Philippians 2:6
Colossians 2:9
1 Timothy 3:16
Hebrews 1:8
Titus 2:13
John 14:16-18
Luke 12:10
2 Corinthians 13:5
John 14:23
Acts 5:3-4
Genesis 1:26
Matt. 28:19
John 15:26
1 Cor. 12:4-6
2 Cor. 13:14,
1 John 5:7
Ephesians 4:6
Psalm 68:5
Malachi 2:10
Isaiah 63:16
2 Corinthians 1:3-4
John 3:16
John 8:41
1 Thessalonians 3:13
Isaiah 7:14
Isaiah 9:6
John 1:1
John 1:3
John 8:58
John 10:30
John 15:9
John 20:28
Acts 5:3-4
2 Corinthians 4:4
Philippians 2:6
Colossians 2:9
1 Timothy 3:16
Hebrews 1:8
Titus 2:13
John 14:16-18
Luke 12:10

you stalled on the first passage no point in rooting through all the others. none are a plain teaching.

 

[quietthinker]

Hmmmmmmm, another secondary source . . . .
Are you REALLY this dense - or is it just an act??

Your link is to a *Op-Ed piece in a local Catholic newspaper. This is HARDLY an official Church source, Einstein.
I asked you for an OFFICIAL document, declaration or decree from the Catholic Church - and once again, you LIED.

Your total ignorance and ineptitude takes all of the fun out of debating . . .


*PS - "Op-Ed" is short for Opinion Editorial.
An "opinion" is somebody's PERSONAL view - and nothing more . . .

Just for your information BOL, here is a clipping from this mornings news

 

[quietthinker]

Ooops...here it is :)

 

[brakelite]

Ooops...here it is :)

Fascinating. Revealing. Condemning. But BoL was reject it because it isn't a first hand official Vatican document. He only wants something from the Vatican that says...
We command all priests to be homosexual paedophiles.
On another level entirely is a book by David Yallop... In God's Name.. a thorough investigation into the alleged murder of Pope Paul VI. But it goes far deeper and exposeds the corruptions in the Vatican bank, the links between the Vatican and the Mafia, and many other criminal activities for which none were brought before justice authorities. This b book is a brilliant and easy read and available free in PDF FORMAT online.

 

[JohnPaul]

Fascinating. Revealing. Condemning. But BoL was reject it because it isn't a first hand official Vatican document. He only wants something from the Vatican that says...
We command all priests to be homosexual paedophiles.
On another level entirely is a book by David Yallop... In God's Name.. a thorough investigation into the alleged murder of Pope Paul VI. But it goes far deeper and exposeds the corruptions in the Vatican bank, the links between the Vatican and the Mafia, and many other criminal activities for which none were brought before justice authorities. This b book is a brilliant and easy read and available free in PDF FORMAT online.

This was portrayed in the movie The Godfather part III.

 

[Phoneman777]

I guess you'll never stop LYING - will you. No matter how offensive it is to God.

What "hush money"??
The people were awarded that money in LAWSUITS, Enstein.

There were legal penalties - but no "hush money" . . .

Dead Bread, stop pretending the church didn't quietly pay off families of victims. No court records. No lawsuits. Just attorneys on both sides meeting to hammer out the details in what was a papist child rapist cottage industry, where the priests did no jail time, were shuffled around to other parishes, and everybody turned a blind eye.

 

[Phoneman777]

Fascinating. Revealing. Condemning. But BoL was reject it because it isn't a first hand official Vatican document. He only wants something from the Vatican that says...
We command all priests to be homosexual paedophiles.
On another level entirely is a book by David Yallop... In God's Name.. a thorough investigation into the alleged murder of Pope Paul VI. But it goes far deeper and exposeds the corruptions in the Vatican bank, the links between the Vatican and the Mafia, and many other criminal activities for which none were brought before justice authorities. This b book is a brilliant and easy read and available free in PDF FORMAT online.

Dead Bread is the most naive, ignorant papist I've ever encountered. To suggest that unless his church officially decreed it, it didn't happen - is beyond ludicrous.

Like a defense attorney demanding the judge throw out the grand jury indictment, skip the arraignment, skip the trial, and just declare his client innocent because he didn't confess to any crime.

Anyone who goes to such lengths to defend an organization has got to be motivated by something other than anything obvious. I'm convinced it's some bizarre psychological coping mechanism that he uses to deal with some horrific experience he had with one of his priests as a child.

 

[Phoneman777]

Hmmmmmmm, another secondary source . . . .
Are you REALLY this dense - or is it just an act??

Your link is to a *Op-Ed piece in a local Catholic newspaper. This is HARDLY an official Church source, Einstein.
I asked you for an OFFICIAL document, declaration or decree from the Catholic Church - and once again, you LIED.

Your total ignorance and ineptitude takes all of the fun out of debating . . .


*PS - "Op-Ed" is short for Opinion Editorial.
An "opinion" is somebody's PERSONAL view - and nothing more . . .

I've already stated it, but it bears worth repeating: I have a solution to what the rest of us can only conclude - by your own constant characterization of the countless statements offered by your own papal representatives which describe papal practices that are opposed to Scripture - as an epidemic of rogue papists within the papacy: have the Pedophile-in-Chief Jorge declare a death decree to any and all "heretics" who would dare publicly declare or publish anything that is contrary to "official papal dogma".

Just like old times, right?

 

[Taken]

It bears worth mentioning that the papacy confidently boasts it changed the day of rest from the 7th to the first workday of the six day workweek.
The only calendar God established was the Jewish calendar - all others including those above are manmade.
Yes, we are a "temple" in which God dwells with the added benefit of the absence of a veil between God and us. What wondrous love, amen? Look at Isaiah 42:21: It says Jesus came to "magnify the law, and make it honorable".

He didn't say it's OK to sleep with our neighbor's wife as long as we don't lust after her, or that we could kill our neighbor as long as we aren't angry with him...and He never said we could disregard the seventh day Sabbath as long as we're resting in Him, right or wrong? Magnifying the Sabbath rest is resting in Him, but the one does not cancel out the other.

Hebrews 4:9-10 says the opposite: it says if we're resting in Jesus, then we'll evidence that outward rest by literally resting on the Sabbath, for "he that hath entered into His rest, he hath ceased from his own works as God did from His." From what works did God rest? Literal works. If we have entered into the rest of Jesus, we'll show the world by resting from the same kind of work from which He rested - literal work.

Hi -

Is your point, Saturday is the first day of the week and should be observed as ...
A day of rest?
A day of worship unto the Lord?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Dead Bread, stop pretending the church didn't quietly pay off families of victims. No court records. No lawsuits. Just attorneys on both sides meeting to hammer out the details in what was a papist child rapist cottage industry, where the priests did no jail time, were shuffled around to other parishes, and everybody turned a blind eye.

Phoneman777 ~

I believe when the Vatican City was established as a Recognized Independent Country/State In 1929, that Affairs of their State Citizens and elected and Appointed "Officials", as are "the pope, bishops, cardinals, priests, etc.," that such "AFFAIRS", of "wrong doing", by an "Official", were established to be "Handled" "INTERNALLY".

Really not too much different than ANY government who has "internal Affairs" that they "handle" "INTERNALLY.

It is my understanding that "Catholics", (members of the Catholic Church, BUT NOT, Appointed Officials, are taught to "Take their grievances ABOUT an "OFFICIAL" TO an "OFFICIAL" of the Catholic Church.

It has been moreso coming to Light, that Catholic Church members are coming forward, being publically outspoken, about their "DISAPPOINTMENT" in "HOW" the Catholic OFFICIALS have handled their "CASES" brought before the Catholic Officials.

It is a matter of Catholic members being taught to take their grievances TO a Catholic OFFICIAL...even though the majority of Catholic Members are under the Jurisdiction of individual Country/State Laws, to take their grievances to their own State/Country's government Jurisdictional Courts.

The IDEA for a Catholic member to TAKE their case (AS a citizen of their own State/Country}....TO their own countries government....poses Problems...
1) Backlash of the Catholic Church Officials.
2) "international Affairs" between two Separate Jurisdictional Governments"

A condunrum of sorts, for a Catholic who wanted to Remain in good standing with the Catholic Church, but found no relief for a wrong doing by a catholic Official.

More modern times have reveals more Catholics are willing to jeopardize their standing with the catholic Church, quit the catholic Church, Be Excommunicated from the Catholic Church...and openly Expose wrong doing of particular Catholic Officials.

Hard and Fast Staunch Catholics who themselves have NOT experienced a wrong doing leveled at them personally, by a catholic Church Official, are quick to turn the Table from the Issue of Catholic Officials to Protestant Officials.

That is called DIVERSION, to Avoid Accountability.
And that, is primarily how a conversation goes, when ANYTHING negative is a Point of Discussion about Catholicism, when a Stauch
Catholic is introduced into the discussion.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Roman Emperor Constantine was instrumental in declaring Sunday the First day of the Week.

Pope Sylvester (314 - 335) was instrumental in declaring Sunday the Lords Day and conferring the Sabbath Day of Worship to Sunday.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

so the doctrine of discovery, its ok to kill native americans and take everything from them and the doctrine thats says the sun revolves around the sun, these ideas are just as true today as they were back then? half my family is Apache , your not going to kill us are you?

Show me the Biblical doctrine that says it's okay to kill native Americans and steal their land.
While you're at it - you also need to show me the Biblical doctrine about the sun revolving around the sun.

If you can show me these Biblical doctrines - I will leave the Catholic Church and join YOU in your rebellion.

 

[brakelite]

Show me the Biblical doctrine that says it's okay to kill native Americans and steal their land.
While you're at it - you also need to show me the Biblical doctrine about the sun revolving around the sun.

If you can show me these Biblical doctrines - I will leave the Catholic Church and join YOU in your rebellion.

Lol. They may not be biblical doctrines (and you know the Sun/Sun thingy was a misprint right?) , but I think his point was that while it may not be biblically justified, many people suffered at the hands of Catholic leadership and their employees who thought their actions were justified before God in persecuting and bringing suffering upon people in relation to the above issues.
I mean, was there ever really any sound theological or moral justification for any Vatican official, be it Pope Bishop or priest, to financially or physically support war? Yet you and I know that history records numerous wars, and countless lives lost as a direct result of Catholic meddling in international politics right?

 

[JohnPaul]

so the doctrine of discovery, its ok to kill native americans and take everything from them and the doctrine thats says the sun revolves around the sun, these ideas are just as true today as they were back then? half my family is Apache , your not going to kill us are you?

Jaybird, no Christian accepts the killing of Indians, that was a tragic part in U.S. history.

 

[BreadOfLife]

exactly, the Most High, according to you, is a man, when the Most High says He is not a man. makes no sense at all to me but ok.

I never said that. I said that He was MANIFESTED in a human body.
God ALSO was manifest as a ROCK (1 Cor. 10:4). If He wanted to be manifested as an aardvark - that is HIS prerogative - NOT yours.

God is SPIRIT, as I showed you (John 2:24). YOUR problem is that. in your arrogance - you limit God's abilities and powers.
Don't be so quick to put God in a box made of your own limitations . . .

lets look at the first one.
Genesis 1:26
26 Then God said, “Let us make man[a] in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

i see nothing in this verse saying the Most High is three beings. but according to you, "US" means trinity. so everytime we see the word "us" we need to understand it not as more than one but rather as the trinity. i dont think so.
with respect that is nothing but you reading into the passage what you want to hear, like i said before, without the doctrine no one sees trinity in that passage.
the Father says He is one, Jesus says the Father, His G-D, is one, and all the prophets and patriarchs say the Most High is one, matter of fact no one anywhere in the scripture ever refer to the Most High as "they". why is that?

you stalled on the first passage no point in rooting through all the others. none are a plain teaching.

Then, why don't YOU explain why God is described in Gen. 1:26 in plural terms such as "US" and "OUR"??
I would LOVE to hear YOUR explanation.

By giving you over FIVE DOZEN verses about the Trinity - I was showing you a Biblical CONTEXT. All YOU have done here is cherry-pick one verse - then refuse to show it in context with the other FIVE DOZEN or so verses I presented. Context is NOT your friend.

The bottom line here is that you won't go through all of the other verses - because you CAN'T . . .

 

[brakelite]

Jaybird, no Christian accepts the killing of Indians, that was a tragic part in U.S. history.

It has been a tragic part in the history of many nations for many centuries... The political meddling in international affairs by Vatican envoys and papal agents.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Lol. They may not be biblical doctrines (and you know the Sun/Sun thingy was a misprint right?) , but I think his point was that while it may not be biblically justified, many people suffered at the hands of Catholic leadership and their employees who thought their actions were justified before God in persecuting and bringing suffering upon people in relation to the above issues.
I mean, was there ever really any sound theological or moral justification for any Vatican official, be it Pope Bishop or priest, to financially or physically support war? Yet you and I know that history records numerous wars, and countless lives lost as a direct result of Catholic meddling in international politics right?

NONSENSE.

There is absolutely a just reason for war. READ the Old Testament.
Not every instance of war is unjust.

People like YOU erroneously assume that Jesus was a pacifist - when Scripture shows us that He wasn't (Matt. 10:34-36. Luke 22:36).

 

[BreadOfLife]

Roman Emperor Constantine was instrumental in declaring Sunday the First day of the Week.

Pope Sylvester (314 - 335) was instrumental in declaring Sunday the Lords Day and conferring the Sabbath Day of Worship to Sunday.
Glory to God,
Taken

The BIBLE (Gen. 2:2-3) tells us that the Seventh Day was the Sabbath (Saturday).
What we refer to as "Sunday" has ALWAYS been the First Day of the week (Mark 16:9).

 

[brakelite]

NONSENSE.

There is absolutely a just reason for war. READ the Old Testament.
Not every instance of war is unjust.

People like YOU erroneously assume that Jesus was a pacifist - when Scripture shows us that He wasn't (Matt. 10:34-36. Luke 22:36).

Mmm. Tell that to the many Vietnam vets who still don't know why they went there. But the Vatican knows huh.

 

[JohnPaul]

It has been a tragic part in the history of many nations for many centuries... The political meddling in international affairs by Vatican envoys and papal agents.

I really don't like all the Catholic hate going on, Many accused Martin Luther of being racist, shall we deem all Lutherans racist?