The Bible teaches repentance unto confession, not confession unto repentance

[CadyandZoe]

This is true with all sinners of the world, whether Christian, Muslim, atheist, woke, etc.... All their good deeds are still filthy rags to God.

This is where your slogans mislead you. The Bible talks about good deeds as filthy rags in regard to a specific and unique case. Good deeds are not filthy rags in every case, generally speaking. Isaiah is talking about his kinsmen who don't rejoice in doing righteousness, don't fear God, don't call upon the name of the Lord, and don't rise early in the morning to "take hold of" God. In the case of these people specifically, their good deeds are as "filthy rags." The term "filthy rags" is a reference to a woman's menstrual clothing, particularly her cloth "pads."

Here Isaiah is talking about the sacrificial system which also involves blood, which is offered on a regular basis. According to the Jewish people, offering sacrifices was the appropriate means to gain God's favor, which Isaiah calls "deeds of righteousness." By comparison, the sacrificial offerings of an arrogant man who does not fear God are about as useful as a woman's menstrual clothing.

So no, good deeds are not filthy rags. Good deeds are acts of charity, generosity, and kindness with real-world benefit. Isaiah wasn't making a general statement about good deeds as such. He was focused on the hearts of his people, who performed all the requisite rituals, even while they were arrogant people who did not fear God or care about what he valued.

It's not true for repented saints in Christ Jesus, who repent of lust and sin and now do all things that please the Father through the Son.

One does not repent of lust. One repents of acting on lust.

 

[Ritajanice]

One does not repent of lust. One repents of acting on lust.

Yes!!!....Amen!!....

 

[Lizbeth]

This may not seem like much of a distinction, but it is actually all important in some raging debates about Christian salvation and works.

The Bible preaches to repent and believe the gospel. It does not say believe the gospel and then repent.

If we believe we are saved by confessing the gospel is true, before repenting of dead works, then unto repentance becomes a gradual thing that is good for life, but not necessary for being justified by Christ. This is what the Christian gospel of justified with works teaches as the Christian life of progressive natural change, that never ends in whole repentance from all dead works.

The Bible says the longsuffering of God is to lead us unto repentance, not unto confession. It is repentance that leads us to confession of our sins with godly sorrow. Some Christians even teach to believe the gospel and skip repent entirely. It teaches believing we are saved first and always, and then gives lip-service unto repenting of dead works.

The problem with the gospel of believing the gospel unto repentance, is that God cannot beget us newborn and clean, without first repenting of dead works. God cannot wash clean in the blood of His Son, any one knowing they will willingly sin again. The blood of His dear Son washes us wholly clean of all past sinning. The blood of the Lamb of God is not like that of a bull or goat, that only covers continued sinning, as we gradually go on unto repentance.

The Bible gospel commands repentance first, that we may indeed believe the gospel to be forgiven by His Son, and believe from the heart that we can now live righteously as Him on earth.

If we haven't yet repented of sinning, then we can't possibly believe from the heart the good news of Jesus Christ, that with His power through faith, we can also live righteously as He did on earth.

The Bible teaches we must first repent from dead works, that we can believe the gospel of being born of God and doing good.

Haven't read through the whole thread, and I love this whole topic of repentance, and I just want to offer these thoughts, which may or may not need tweeking......."Repent and believe" suggests to me that we first need to repent of unbelief. After that we begin repenting of specific sins, and some of that may come as an initial gift of grace in the beginning of our walk and for other sins the repentance comes through being washed and instructed in the word. That is how it went with me, at least. Then finally I'm wondering if what we need is repentance from the whole body of sin, the sin nature itself.....which then enables a walk in the Spirit that Paul speaks of in Romans..? Would that be right? If even Jesus "learned" obedience through the things which He suffered.......then I believe that is the path that we generally follow also, that we may partake of His holiness in due time...?

When I came to faith and the Lord was revealed to me, I wasn't convicted of sin initially, except the sin of unbelief, and I felt remorse for that. Some sins fell off me automatically and right away, a gift from God, other sins I turned away from only after being instructed in the word. Years later I began to realize that I still fall short in spite of myself....that something more is needed. Came to realize that no matter how hard I try the best I produce has mixture of the flesh and self, and I'm held back by things having to do with my soul/self, except once in a while the Lord has been kind and overruled "me" and allowed me to be a vessel for HIS work while I just went along for the ride, so to speak.

So what I'm putting forward here in a nutshell is three stages of repentance....first repent of unbelief which reconciles us to God, then repent of specific sins, then finally repent of the whole body of sin...? That would be similar to the pattern of Israel I think....except for the believer we are being tutored to Christ in a deeper way.....realizing that we cannot of ourselves fulfill His commands and reflect His image perfectly, much like the Israelites could not fulfill the whole Law perfectly. Jesus has made the way.

 

[Ghada]

If we deny our inward sin, the light is not in us

Neither is the truth. Those having inward sin, that deny it, have no truth in them. (1 John 1:8)

And having your inward sin is darkness in you, not light.

But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

 

[Ghada]

Right. How does one repent from the dead works?

Stop doing them. First cast down lusting from the heart, so we can cast away any works of the flesh.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

The result is living and walking like Jesus:

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Context is important here. The basis of Paul's statement is the search for "eudiamonia"

Greeking our way from the simplicity of the Bible, is what Paul calls playing word games unto more ungodliness.

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

: fulfillment, happiness, well-being, and human flourishing. The question is, what is the most effective lifestyle, which will bring a person fulfillment and human flourishing? And in this context "alive works" are those works that lead to human flourishing and "dead works" are those works that remain ineffective and don't lead to human flourishing.

This is great human reasoning for the unrepented sinner living an improved life of less sinning.

Turning over a new religious leaf in life, with the same old corrupt heart of sinners, is not the holy conversion of Jesus Christ to His pure religion.

You misunderstand. Repentance isn't changing the mind about sin. Repentance is rejecting false ideas or detrimental practices.

Now you are expanding your definition of repentance to include works and not just our attitude about sinning. Good job. Bible repentance is repenting from both the lust of heart and sinful works of the flesh.

Just as faith with works justifies us with Christ. So repentance of works comes to Jesus by faith..

It is easy to repent of sin in a general way. We all do that.

Now you're back to only changing the mind about lust and sin, 'generally speaking'.

But true repentance involves wisdom and knowledge because as we saw above, repentance involves an evaluation process;

God's command to repent is even more emphatic than that any man's warning to stop that, or else.

What deeds, behaviors or ideas will ultimately lead to Life and what deeds, behaviors or ideas will lead to death?

I teach the Bible. Lusting with the heart and sinning with the flesh is death to the soul.

Believing God from a new heart is an internal reality due to the involvement of his Holy Spirit.

There is no new heart of God, while still having old lust of the world.

The Holy Spirit's job is to help us with discernment and decision-making, helping us to see the truth and to make wise decisions with regard to whether a decision will be life-affirming or lead to death.

I.e. lust and sinning, bad, purity and doing well, good.

And every child knows the difference. The wisdom of God is growing in Christ without sinning, not progressing in religion to sin less.

Paul had sin and he was in Christ.

No one having lust and sin is in Christ Jesus, in whom is no lust nor sin.

Paul had double mindedness for a season In Romans 7, and He was not in Christ during that wretchedness. He cried out to the Lord to deliver him from it, so that in Christ Jesus he moved on to perfection of Romans 8.

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Christian sinners that preach Romans 7 for life, never quote this verse of repentance that leads to Romans 8.

According to the Bible, repenting is an aspect of believing.

Back to only changing mental aspects about sinning.

 

[Ghada]

One does not repent of lust.

And so, you minister lust to Christians rather than purity of heart to saints. You reject the reformation of Christ to purge within the platter first.

I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

The Bible commands do not lust, and you say do not repent of lust.

 

[Ghada]

One does not repent of lust. One repents of acting on lust.

Not you, because you still sin from time to time, which is by acting on your lust less often.

Your statement also rejects the simple Bible doctrine, that all outward sinning only comes by lust within. is why you still sin from time to time, and only see to act upon your kept lust less than before.

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

You openly preach against Jesus' commandment to repent of lust first and cleanse the platter within, that all the works may be good.

Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Repentance of mind is still sinning more or less in life. Repentance of heart is no more lust to sin by at all.

Some Christians by doctrine, confession and example, do not believe and reject the ministry of Christ to purge our hearts of lust first, that we may live clean in all things.

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Ghada]

The Bible talks about good deeds as filthy rags in regard to a specific and unique case.

Not unique in the world. Any heart of lust has filthy rags in all their deeds. Good only proceeds from the pure.

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Even as your unrepented outward sinning disbelieves living without sinning in Christ, so does your continued lust of heart blind you to having a pure heart without lust in Christ.

You dare not even acknowledge His doctrine of being all good and clean and pure, first within and also without.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Lest your eyes should be opened to the truth of repenting of inward lusting first, and not just outward sinning.

That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Good deeds are not filthy rags in every case, generally speaking.

Specifically speaking in the Bible, only those doing good from a new pure heart of Christ.

Isaiah is talking about his kinsmen who don't rejoice in doing righteousness, don't fear God, don't call upon the name of the Lord, and don't rise early in the morning to "take hold of" God.

True, because they still lust from the heart while obeying the law outwardly

It's the same for Christian sinners still lusting with the heart, while doing good deeds outwardly.

Still corrupt by lust inwardly, with increased good works outwardly. No amount of increase of outward good can offset the continued inward lust and corruption.

The reformation of Jesus Christ is to cleanse within first, that all the works may be good.

This reformation is what Christian sinners need today, just as the Pharisee Jews of old.

Here Isaiah is talking about the sacrificial system which also involves blood, which is offered on a regular basis. According to the Jewish people, offering sacrifices was the appropriate means to gain God's favor, which Isaiah calls "deeds of righteousness."

You can try and make them only religious 'righteousnesses' if you want. The heart remains corrupt, so does the life remain filthy rags.

Whether Jewish conversion of old or Christian conversion today, they are both religions of filthy rags from filthy spirits.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Good deeds are acts of charity, generosity, and kindness with real-world benefit.

So long as the heart lusts with the world, then sinners can have real world benefits for man, with unjustified filthy rags toward God.

And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

He was focused on the hearts of his people, who performed all the requisite rituals, even while they were arrogant people who did not fear God or care about what he valued.

Exactly, even while they were lusting from the heart, whether well ritualized Jews or good works Christians.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Neither is the truth. Those having inward sin, that deny it, have no truth in them. (1 John 1:8)

And having your inward sin is darkness in you, not light.

But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

Not according to John. He tells you that the truth is not in them.

Listen to the Apostle.

"If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us."

It seems to me that the corollary is also true: if I admit that I have sin, then the truth is in me.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Stop doing them.

To repent of sin doesn't simply mean to stop sinning. Rather, it entails changing one's perspective about the harm and evil that comes with sinning and resolving to avoid it as much as possible in the future. Repentance involves recognizing that a specific behavior is detrimental to one's happiness and fulfillment and displeasing to God, and committing to avoiding it going forward. While those who change their minds about sinning will naturally strive to stop altogether, it's important to note that repentance isn't defined as successfully avoiding sin.

First cast down lusting from the heart, so we can cast away any works of the flesh.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

You set out to prove that we are saved based on our works, but here you argue that one needs to stop working, i.e. cast away works of the flesh. So we are saved by not working? :) But seriously . . .

The passage you referenced addresses the point I previously raised. Jesus differentiates between external appearances and internal character. He is addressing a situation where the Pharisees judged righteousness based on the actions of their fellow Pharisees. Jesus did not criticize the Pharisees for doing good deeds, but for being hypocrites, pretending to be good people. He urged them to pursue true righteousness, which involves both outward and inward goodness.

But as he explained to Nicodemus privately, only God can truly transform the inwardness of a person.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

The result is living and walking like Jesus:

The passage you quoted here should be understood from the larger context as below.

2 Corinthians 7:1-4

Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Make room for us in your hearts; we wronged no one, we corrupted no one, we took advantage of no one. I do not speak to condemn you, for I have said before that you are in our hearts to die together and to live together. Great is my confidence in you; great is my boasting on your behalf. I am filled with comfort; I am overflowing with joy in all our affliction.​

Here Paul is throwing emphasis on the defilement of the spirit. The defilement of the spirit can lead to a lot of problems like long-standing bitterness, resentment, fighting, and division. This was evident in the Corinthian church, where Paul addressed issues of division, factionalism, and favoritism in his first epistle. He was critical of this behavior and wanted to redirect everyone's focus back to Christ, who died for them. In the verses above, Paul urges believers to open their hearts to him, which is a good first step in cleansing themselves from spiritual defilement.

Suppose someone resented and hated Paul. What would cleansing look like? First, the resentful man will change his mind about Paul (repent) and perhaps he might attempt to see things from Paul's perspective. He would resolve to never act on his feelings toward Paul and he would seek ways to reconcile with Paul in a spirit of amity.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I understand that this passage is often used to support the belief in "Entire Sanctification." While I won't delve too deeply into this topic, it's worth noting that Paul's prayer also looks towards the future. Unlike some, he doesn't expect God to fulfill his prayer during this lifetime. According to Paul, the process of sanctification begins when God's spirit enters the hearts of those he's saving, but it won't be complete until Jesus returns and transforms us all.

Greeking our way from the simplicity of the Bible, is what Paul calls playing word games unto more ungodliness.

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Based on your response, it seems that you are considering the arguments I presented regarding Greek-English word definitions. Just to clarify, I practice a form of exegesis called "authorial intent," which aims to understand the intended meaning of a passage. As Bible students, we are separated from Jesus and the Apostles by time, culture, language, and circumstances. Therefore, understanding Biblical texts requires prayer, study, hard work, determination, and humility. The simplicity of Christ's message is like gold in a creek or stream - it takes time and effort to find and appreciate. It's essential that we reject any misunderstandings or "fools-gold" that may lead us astray.

This is great human reasoning for the unrepented sinner living an improved life of less sinning.

We are both using the reasoning God gave us to communicate with each other. I would assume that you are using human reasoning like the rest of us.

Now you are expanding your definition of repentance to include works and not just our attitude about sinning. Good job. Bible repentance is repenting from both the lust of heart and sinful works of the flesh.

Is that what I am doing, expanding my definition of "repentance" to include works? I don't think I am doing that. I am taking my cues from John the Baptist who told his kinsmen to perform "works" consistent with repentance. I haven't repented of my definition of repentance, which means "change the mind". The question is, after we change our mind what do we do about it? John gave his kinsmen a few examples to illustrate the general principle.

Luke 3:10-13

And the crowds were questioning him, saying, “Then what shall we do?” And he would answer and say to them, “The man who has two tunics is to share with him who has none; and he who has food is to do likewise.” And some tax collectors also came to be baptized, and they said to him, “Teacher, what shall we do?” And he said to them, “Collect no more than what you have been ordered to.” Some soldiers were questioning him, saying, “And what about us, what shall we do?” And he said to them, “Do not take money from anyone by force, or accuse anyone falsely, and be content with your wages.”​

​

In verse 8, John referred to certain actions as "fruits" of repentance. The term "repentance" refers to changing one's mind. However, John emphasizes that our actions following this change are what he calls the "fruits" of repentance. As a matter of our inwardness, we change our minds, and as for our outwardness, we perform actions that naturally follow from our new perspective.

Now you're back to only changing the mind about lust and sin, 'generally speaking'.

I'm sorry you are having trouble keeping up. Would you like to ask a follow-up question?

God's command to repent is even more emphatic than that any man's warning to stop that, or else.
I teach the Bible. Lusting with the heart and sinning with the flesh is death to the soul.
There is no new heart of God, while still having old lust of the world.

Desire is a God-given attribute of my existence. Lust is a desire that is directed at a forbidden something or someone. My desire for my wife is good. My desire for a woman other than my wife is evil. That being said, Paul our Apostle argues that lust is a fundamental aspect of our current state of existence. I can't get rid of lust. It exists at the core of my being. All I can do (and it's both important and good) is to never allow my lust to "give birth to sin" as James puts it.

It doesn't do me any good to somehow convince myself that I don't have lust or that I have gotten rid of it. Sanctified seekers of truth will admit the existence of lust, and having accepted reality the way it really is, we are in a good position to keep lust from giving birth to sin. Those who deny they have lust are those who lust all the time without knowing it.

Paul had double mindedness for a season In Romans 7, and He was not in Christ during that wretchedness. He cried out to the Lord to deliver him from it, so that in Christ Jesus he moved on to perfection of Romans 8.

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

In case you missed it, one does not cry out to be delivered if one doesn't need to be delivered. Understand? Paul cried out to be delivered because he found that he was coveting all the time. Not only this, but Paul's solution to coveting all the time is to be freed of his body of death. He associates lust with the members of his body and he will never be free of his lust until Jesus gives him a new body when "all will be changed at the last Trump."

Christian sinners that preach Romans 7 for life, never quote this verse of repentance that leads to Romans 8.

Romans 8 speaks about "being according to the Spirit" and "walking according to the Spirit". Those who are walking according to the Spirit are putting to death the deeds of the body. If one didn't have lust, there would be no deeds of the body to put to death.

 

[CadyandZoe]

And so, you minister lust to Christians rather than purity of heart to saints. You reject the reformation of Christ to purge within the platter first.

I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

The Bible commands do not lust, and you say do not repent of lust.

It does not necessarily follow that when I admit my lust, that I also reject purity of heart. The one does not follow from the other. But purity of heart is not the opposite of lust as you suggest. Purity of Heart, as K. wrote, is to will one thing.

K. illustrated the principle in a couple of ways, but to be brief, let's consider the woman who wants to marry a rich man.

When a woman courts a rich man, we assume one of at least two possibilities: 1) she loves him for his heart and mind, or 2) She is attracted to his money and power. A woman with a pure heart will love the man only; a double-minded woman will desire both the man AND his money and if the man should lose all of his money in the stock market, divorce will suddenly be a consideration.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Not you, because you still sin from time to time, which is by acting on your lust less often.

So what? We all do that. As Paul said, we live in hope of being transformed. And we don't hope for what we already have.

Your statement also rejects the simple Bible doctrine, that all outward sinning only comes by lust within.

How so? I don't think that is an implication of my statement.

You openly preach against Jesus' commandment to repent of lust first and cleanse the platter within, that all the works may be good.

Jesus never commanded to repent of lust.

Repentance of mind is still sinning more or less in life.

I disagree. There is no correlation between repentance and sinning more.

Repentance of heart is no more lust to sin by at all.

I challenge you to cite a passage that proves your point. As I already pointed out, the meaning of the word "repent" is "to change one's mind." If we can't agree on the facts of the matter, how can we discuss the issues surrounding the topic?

Some Christians by doctrine, confession and example, do not believe and reject the ministry of Christ to purge our hearts of lust first, that we may live clean in all things.

Some Christians deny the reality of their existence. But stubbornness of heart is no obstacle to God. If he should desire it, he can soften the stubborn heart and lead him or her into all righteousness. Salvation is God's and God's alone.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Not unique in the world. Any heart of lust has filthy rags in all their deeds. Good only proceeds from the pure.

Again, I think you argue from your slogans. I argued from a scripture passage, which you ignored. Why is that? Why do you miss the passage? And why have you made yourself the object of my temptation? You probe me on purpose, hoping to make me angry and find a weakness. I recognize you.

You dare not even acknowledge His doctrine of being all good and clean and pure, first within and also without.

I acknowledge that you don't seem to understand what Jesus meant by what he said.

Still corrupt by lust inwardly, with increased good works outwardly. No amount of increase of outward good can offset the continued inward lust and corruption.

The presence of lust doesn't necessarily imply corruption. Again, lust is a condition or aspect of my existence. Corruption is what I might do with my lust, but corruption is not a foregone conclusion.

Lust = inwardness
Corruption = outwardness.

Paul argued that even those with lust can present their members in the service of righteousness. Having lust in my heart, if you will, doesn't necessitate anything concerning what I do. Jesus told the Pharisees that lust for a woman convicted them of sin, but he wasn't saying, at the same time, that lust was the same as adultery. A man can live with lust and NEVER sleep with another man's wife.

The reformation of Jesus Christ is to cleanse within first, that all the works may be good.

Jesus told the Pharisees to clean the inside; we know from the teachings of Jesus and Paul that God is the one who cleans the inside. Don't get confused with Jesus' style of presentation. Often he will challenge the Pharisees to accomplish things that he knows they can't accomplish because he is not focused on behavior or performance; Instead, he is focused on wisdom and enlightenment. He wants the Pharisees to stop pretending and admit the reality of their inwardness.

 

[Ghada]

But you falsely accuse Pewter of preaching sinless perfection in thought word and deed until one dies.

I do not falsely accuse your Peter nor your doctrine. I completely agree you both are unrepented sinners, still having lust and sin, and will do so to the grave by obedience to your own gospel.

And being ignorant of the Peter and doctrine I preach, you also state it wrongly.

It is not 'sinless' Christian perfection, because only was sinless all His life. The doctrine Peter and I preach is perfecting the saints in Christ Jesus without sinning.

While it is perfect in word and deed, it is not perfection of thought, because like Jesus we are still tempted with thoughts of sin from the devil and the world. Jesus being tempted was not perfect of thought, and nor are we.

However He was perfect in casting down any and all such thoughts, so as not to lust with the heart and sin with the flesh. And so do His saints in Him. Being perfect in thought, where there are no more tempting thoughts at all, is not until the resurrection of the dead with the spirits of just men made perfect.

This perfecting of the saints in Christ Jesus, walking with a pure heart as He walked, while casting down all thoughts for sin so as not to lust, is what you reject by unrepentance of your lust corrupted heart.

Also, I no longer quote the verses of my Bible to prove these things to you anymore as before, because you have sufficiently demonstrated a rejection of anything that disturbs your defiled sinner's conscience.

I say after a while, why uselessly cast away my Bible pearls anymore?

 

[Ghada]

So what? We all do that.

Ah yes. So what? It's no big deal at all, since all you and your churches do it. Sinning with the devil? Being an enemy of God? Big whoop.

And so now we have proof that all your sinful Christians' proclamations of still having lust and sin, is without any hint of shame.

How can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

It shows perfectly shows sinful Christianity has reduced lusting and sinning into just another ho-hum daily thing like any other natural bodily function. We eat, we drink, we poop, we sin. But as Christians we must of course try to hold it in longer to do it less often.

 

[Ghada]

As Paul said, we live in hope of being transformed.

Any hope of repenting of all sinning and being transformed with all things now being of God, after the grave, is in vain. Being pure born of God and walking as Jesus walked is now to day or never. There is no repentance granted by God in nor after the grave.

 

[Ghada]

How so? I don't think that is an implication of my statement.

Well, you say to repent not of lust, but to only repent of sinning, which can only be by lust. So it cancels itself out and makes repenting of acts of lust impossible. It's sort of like trying to command someone not to burp, while keeping inflatable gas in the belly.

It's makes me think you don't know James 1, that all outward sinning is only by inward lusting.

Jesus never commanded to repent of lust.

I quoted Romans 7 already. We are commanded not to covet, and so we must repent of lust by which man covets.

I disagree. There is no correlation between repentance and sinning more.

Ok. Your religion does call for some repentance to sin less, not more. However, since it's a no big deal to be lusting and sinning itself, then so what? if it's more or less, right?

 

[Ghada]

I challenge you to cite a passage that proves your point.

Seriously? I've stated the verse showing Jesus command to repent ye and believe the gospel is the command to repent of dead works and have faith toward God. I've done so twice already, and you reject it for mental repentance only. What difference does a 3rd make?

As I already pointed out, the meaning of the word "repent" is "to change one's mind."

Yes, I already know your mind doctrine. I reject it and have shown why. Unlike you, I don't demand you keep repeating yourself.

Some Christians deny the reality of their existence.

Are you saying some sinner Christian friends of yours have gone so far to deny that they exist?? Now that is delusional.

Or, are you saying that you personally know sinning Christians like yourself, who don't acknowledge they have lust and sin?

What happened when you rebuked them for it? Did they finally say they have lust and sin like you do?

I can see where it wouldn't be fair for one of your Christian sinners to hold out on the mandate in your churches to always say you have lust and sin. I mean, if some Christian didn't still have lust and sin in their heart and life, then they couldn't be acceptable members of your churches.

Don't worry, I would never try to be.

Salvation is God's and God's alone.

True. So long as sinners repent not of their lusting and sinning, then it remains God's salvation alone.

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Face it. On every hand and in many ways, your gospel is simply not that of God's salvation revealed in the Bible.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Ah yes. So what? It's no big deal at all, since all you and your churches do it. Sinning with the devil? Being an enemy of God? Big whoop.

And so now we have proof that all your sinful Christians' proclamations of still having lust and sin, is without any hint of shame.

How can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

It shows perfectly shows sinful Christianity has reduced lusting and sinning into just another ho-hum daily thing like any other natural bodily function. We eat, we drink, we poop, we sin. But as Christians we must of course try to hold it in longer to do it less often.

Your sarcasm is noted. At this stage, sarcasm reveals that you no longer have an argument. I have answered all your objections with scripture.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Any hope of repenting of all sinning and being transformed with all things now being of God, after the grave, is in vain. Being pure born of God and walking as Jesus walked is now to day or never. There is no repentance granted by God in nor after the grave.

Here you are making stuff up. This reveals to me that you have assumed a theological position and you are forcing the scriptures to way what YOU want to say.