The absurdity of Pretrib logic

[Taken]

Same person!

For “some” yes, for “others” no.

“This” world…”of” mortal men…SHALL cease.

The reality is what shall be the manner of the “end” of each mortal man, is wholly dependent on each mans “spirits” beliefs.

A natural mans “spirit” IS his “natural truth in his “heart”….which IS subject to death at the time his body Dies.

At the time of their natural physical bodily death…IF their ‘natural spirit’ believes in Jesus…they shall be saved.

Some men have accepted a new, better testament presented 2,000+ years ago by, through, of an Offering of God, by, through, of Christ Jesus….to freely, willingly, CONFESS their true “natural spirit’s” belief…
AND thus RECEIVE Gods Offering…
RIGHT THEN…that their “natural spirit” Become MADE “born again” of Gods SEED…and that NEW born again spirit…NEVER AGAIN to have the ability….
* to die
* to waver in doubt of the Lord God
* to stand against the Lord God

And ^ is ONLY accomplished by, through, of a mans own once and forever choice of commitment and the Power of God (Christ) who EFFECTS / fulfills that mans true heartful desire.
Effected BY Christ, to establish that individual “IN” Christ…AND that individual to be SANCTIFIED (set apart) FOR Christ to claim, redeem, take, possess, that individual unto Himself according to His timetable…
(Ie. The individual IN Christ, fully prepared (SAV-ED, QUICKEN-ED) to be claimed at any time.)

They are UNLIKE other men…
Men who do not believe.
Men who are uncommitted.
Men who believe in Jesus, and HOPE they continue believing to the day of their bodily death..(even while demons seek them out, and ruling kings and other powerful men attempt the deter them from believing, via promises of wealth, via threats, via any underhanded ways that ones power over them can influence them.)

~. Look at whole nations whose laws, leaders, oppress people who will not BELIEVE what they are told to Believe…
~ Look at leaders who oppress their people for not DOING harmful things, they are told they must do…
~ Look at Nations whose sitting power reps DO what they IMPRISON others for DOING…
~ Yes, look carefully at US Reps…
…cheaters, thieves, embezzlers, liars, illegal drug users, hit men hires, tax evaders, drunkards excused, brown out electrical / fuel usage, while their multiple homes and exhausts from transportation is over the top, forced for the people to pay for.

Assurance for Salvation is applicable to one “IN” Christ. “IS” Saved by “Christ” Raised up, whole, body, soul, spirit before the trib.

Hope a person shall receive Salvation is applicable to one “who can continue believing IN Jesus to the day his body physically dies”…(warned and called enduring to the end). “Shall be” Saved by “God”. Raised up bodily, 1st Resurrection.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[WPM]

For “some” yes, for “others” no.

“This” world…”of” mortal men…SHALL cease.

The reality is what shall be the manner of the “end” of each mortal man, is wholly dependent on each mans “spirits” beliefs.

A natural mans “spirit” IS his “natural truth in his “heart”….which IS subject to death at the time his body Dies.

At the time of their natural physical bodily death…IF their ‘natural spirit’ believes in Jesus…they shall be saved.

Some men have accepted a new, better testament presented 2,000+ years ago by, through, of an Offering of God, by, through, of Christ Jesus….to freely, willingly, CONFESS their true “natural spirit’s” belief…
AND thus RECEIVE Gods Offering…
RIGHT THEN…that their “natural spirit” Become MADE “born again” of Gods SEED…and that NEW born again spirit…NEVER AGAIN to have the ability….
* to die
* to waver in doubt of the Lord God
* to stand against the Lord God

And ^ is ONLY accomplished by, through, of a mans own once and forever choice of commitment and the Power of God (Christ) who EFFECTS / fulfills that mans true heartful desire.
Effected BY Christ, to establish that individual “IN” Christ…AND that individual to be SANCTIFIED (set apart) FOR Christ to claim, redeem, take, possess, that individual unto Himself according to His timetable…
(Ie. The individual IN Christ, fully prepared (SAV-ED, QUICKEN-ED) to be claimed at any time.)

They are UNLIKE other men…
Men who do not believe.
Men who are uncommitted.
Men who believe in Jesus, and HOPE they continue believing to the day of their bodily death..(even while demons seek them out, and ruling kings and other powerful men attempt the deter them from believing, via promises of wealth, via threats, via any underhanded ways that ones power over them can influence them.)

~. Look at whole nations whose laws, leaders, oppress people who will not BELIEVE what they are told to Believe…
~ Look at leaders who oppress their people for not DOING harmful things, they are told they must do…
~ Look at Nations whose sitting power reps DO what they IMPRISON others for DOING…
~ Yes, look carefully at US Reps…
…cheaters, thieves, embezzlers, liars, illegal drug users, hit men hires, tax evaders, drunkards excused, brown out electrical / fuel usage, while their multiple homes and exhausts from transportation is over the top, forced for the people to pay for.

Assurance for Salvation is applicable to one “IN” Christ. “IS” Saved by “Christ” Raised up, whole, body, soul, spirit before the trib.

Hope a person shall receive Salvation is applicable to one “who can continue believing IN Jesus to the day his body physically dies”…(warned and called enduring to the end). “Shall be” Saved by “God”. Raised up bodily, 1st Resurrection.

Glory to God,
Taken

This is all incoherent rambling.

 

[Taken]

At His coming to us when the last trumpet sounds shall be physical. When Christ sends His Spirit to be within believers, His presence within is not seen with physical sight, and must be spiritually understood. We can plainly understand, if we accept the Words of the Bible, that when Scripture speaks of Christ coming to us on the last day it is always referring to Him coming again visibly.

Revelation 1:7 (KJV) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

The Son of man was sent…the Son of man shall return….”for the purpose of ALL to see”.

His first coming …. He came as a humble servant.

His second coming…He comes with power, authority, to exact His Power….for all to see…and those ON the face of the earth to experience the effect of His power.

Remember when He is SEEN by all…He is sitting on a white cloud…WITH HIM “IS” (unseen)…those made whole IN Christ, and His His Holy Angels.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[grafted branch]

You might not realize it, but this is where 2 Peter 3:8 might help us here, since , like you pointed out, those things logically can't fit within a 24 hour day, but they can certainly fit within a day involving a thousand years, though. Think about it. What is a day? It is an era of time. 24 hours is an era time. A thousand years is an era of time. When looking at it like that, 2 Peter 3:8 makes plenty of sense. It simply means an era of time involving a thousand years, a thousand literal years, the same way 24 hours is an era of time involving 24 literal hours.

I haven’t done a study on this, maybe you have, I don’t know but can we conclude that “the day of the Lord” is always referring to a single day or the millennium and no other time period?

I realize we are going to have a different opinion on the millennium but have you examined this?

 

[rwb]

Dreamt up in the 1800's...So it is a conspiracy to deceive the Believers in Christ to believe that the Rapture shall come early so we all better drop to our knees and to be watching for the Lord at any moment....????? !!!!

Can you tell me where is the danger which comes from looking sooner rather than later for the Lord? That doesn't sound like a conspiracy to me! LOL!

We call those types of things, Warnings! Hahahah. Is that how smart the enemy is? Sneak into the Christian camp and say hey christian brothers better drop to your knees and pray and train for your Lord to rescue you sooner than you thought He might....??

I dunno, that dont sound like a good deception to me. If I'm deceived into a wrongness of a pretrib rapture...but it causes me to push in to the Lord Now and sooner....I cant see any danger there!

I remember when the Lord came to me and audibly spoke to me and told me to pray for a certain person who needs help right now (A Brother in Christ). I recounted this Testimony several times here and there and one time I got taken to task for it and advised that, it was an evil spirit that came to deceive me....Lol!
Like the enemy would come and tell a Christian to pray to the Lord to help another Christian who needed help, LOL!! The enemies mission is to steal kill and destroy, not...pray that God helps this christian man who needs help...!!

(Or even...draw closer to God now because the Rapture could happen anytime! )
Post trib is Hilarious!

Everyone calling themselves Christian ought to be looking for the return of the Lord! It's not looking for His coming again that is unbiblical. It is teaching that when the Lord returns there will still be time, another one thousand years for unbelievers (especially Jews) to turn to the Lord for everlasting life. That is a lie from the depths of hell!

 

[The Light]

I haven’t done a study on this, maybe you have, I don’t know but can we conclude that “the day of the Lord” is always referring to a single day or the millennium and no other time period?

I realize we are going to have a different opinion on the millennium but have you examined this?

The Day of the Lord is not a single 24 hour period. Nor is the Day of the Lord 1000 year long.

The Day of the Lord is a one-year period of wrath. It is the 7th seal.

 

[rwb]

I think in some places the word “day” would be better translated “time”. So in certain instances, as the entire new covenant age, it should be considered time of the Lord not day of the Lord.

The day of the Lord not only covers the period of time from the first advent, the day of the Lord also indicates 'A' day when the day of the Lord shall end.

 

[grafted branch]

Everyone calling themselves Christian ought to be looking for the return of the Lord! It's not looking for His coming again that is unbiblical. It is teaching that when the Lord returns there will still be time, another one thousand years for unbelievers (especially Jews) to turn to the Lord for everlasting life. That is a lie from the depths of hell!

There is also this issue …

If there are still many Old Testament promises that will literally happen to the Jews in the future, and Gentiles will not be part of these promises, then a person might decide to reject Jesus and become a physical Jew now, thinking they will be better off during a future millennium.

Not good.

 

[grafted branch]

The Day of the Lord is not a single 24 hour period. Nor is the Day of the Lord 1000 year long.

The Day of the Lord is a one-year period of wrath. It is the 7th seal.

What verses are you using to support this?

 

[WPM]

The Day of the Lord is not a single 24 hour period. Nor is the Day of the Lord 1000 year long.

The Day of the Lord is a one-year period of wrath. It is the 7th seal.

And where exactly does it teach this?

 

[rwb]

I haven’t done a study on this, maybe you have, I don’t know but can we conclude that “the day of the Lord” is always referring to a single day or the millennium and no other time period?

I realize we are going to have a different opinion on the millennium but have you examined this?

Peter, on the day of Pentecost, quoting the prophet Joel indicates that Joel believed the day of the Lord began to be fulfilled in the "last days", not one day, but the entire period of time that began with the first advent of Christ. This is when the Spirit was poured out upon all flesh. Not all without exception, but all who call upon the name of the Lord. The last days are of the period of time when "whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Acts 2:17-21 (KJV) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

When we come to Scripture with a preconceived doctrinal point of view, it is very hard to understand how the prophets of Old spoke of the day of the Lord as an age, and not a single day or one thousand years. The reason it's so hard for them is because the Old is written in shadows that must be understood through what is plainly written in the New. Much of what the prophets foretell regarding the day of the Lord that Christ ushered in when He came must be spiritually discerned, because the Kingdom of God that Christ came to earth with is not a physical Kingdom, but is a spiritual Kingdom, so much of what is written of Old is spiritually fulfilled, not literally or physically as so many think they must be.

 

[rwb]

There is also this issue …

If there are still many Old Testament promises that will literally happen to the Jews in the future, and Gentiles will not be part of these promises, then a person might decide to reject Jesus and become a physical Jew now, thinking they will be better off during a future millennium.

Not good.

Would, in my opinion, make God to be a respecter of persons, specifically the Jews.

 

[rwb]

And where exactly does it teach this?

It comes from a very vivid imagination! Perhaps too much reading the 'Left Behind' series???

 

[grafted branch]

Peter, on the day of Pentecost, quoting the prophet Joel indicates that Joel believed the day of the Lord began to be fulfilled in the "last days", not one day, but the entire period of time that began with the first advent of Christ. This is when the Spirit was poured out upon all flesh. Not all without exception, but all who call upon the name of the Lord. The last days are of the period of time when "whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Acts 2:17-21 (KJV) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

When we come to Scripture with a preconceived doctrinal point of view, it is very hard to understand how the prophets of Old spoke of the day of the Lord as an age, and not a single day or one thousand years. The reason it's so hard for them is because the Old is written in shadows that must be understood through what is plainly written in the New. Much of what the prophets foretell regarding the day of the Lord that Christ ushered in when He came must be spiritually discerned, because the Kingdom of God that Christ came to earth with is not a physical Kingdom, but is a spiritual Kingdom, so much of what is written of Old is spiritually fulfilled, not literally or physically as so many think they must be.

Let me ask you this, the Kingdom is an everlasting Kingdom, does this make the day of the Lord an everlasting day?

 

[Davidpt]

Peter, on the day of Pentecost, quoting the prophet Joel indicates that Joel believed the day of the Lord began to be fulfilled in the "last days", not one day, but the entire period of time that began with the first advent of Christ. This is when the Spirit was poured out upon all flesh. Not all without exception, but all who call upon the name of the Lord. The last days are of the period of time when "whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Acts 2:17-21 (KJV) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

When we come to Scripture with a preconceived doctrinal point of view, it is very hard to understand how the prophets of Old spoke of the day of the Lord as an age, and not a single day or one thousand years. The reason it's so hard for them is because the Old is written in shadows that must be understood through what is plainly written in the New. Much of what the prophets foretell regarding the day of the Lord that Christ ushered in when He came must be spiritually discerned, because the Kingdom of God that Christ came to earth with is not a physical Kingdom, but is a spiritual Kingdom, so much of what is written of Old is spiritually fulfilled, not literally or physically as so many think they must be.

You seriously need to do a study on the DOTL then. Consider the following, for example.

Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

Amos 5:20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

These are examples of what the DOTL is like in general. It's not going to be involving anything pleasant.

Nowhere in Acts 2 does it ever say the DOTL began back then. It instead tells us that what began back then precedes the DOTL in the future. You are conflating things here.

Acts 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

Verse 20 says---before that great and notable day of the Lord come, first the sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood. Now it's just a simple matter of looking in Matthew 24 and Revelation 6 to see where in the timeline of events verse 20 fits.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


This verse places Acts 2:20 immediately after great tribulation.

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

This verse places Acts 2:20 during the 6th seal.

There is no way in a million years when Peter said what he did at the time in Acts 2:14, that they were already in the era of time involving Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 6:12.

BTW, I guess this is another example of you proving what you allege with the Bible itself, right?

 

[The Light]

It comes from a very vivid imagination! Perhaps too much reading the 'Left Behind' series???

Here's your very vivid imagination. This is your comment.


"The day of the Lord not only covers the period of time from the first advent, the day of the Lord also indicates 'A' day when the day of the Lord shall end."

Now here are a few things that the Word says about the day of the Lord. This certainly did not begin with the 1st advent.


The day of the Lord is a dreadful day, a day of darkness and destruction.

Malachi 4
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

Isaiah 13
6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

Isaiah 13
9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

Joel 1
15 Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

Joel 2
11 And the Lord shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the Lord is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

Joel 5
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

Joel 3
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.

Amos 5
20 Shall not the day of the Lord be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

 

[The Light]

What verses are you using to support this?

Hey grafted branch. Isaiah 34 shows the Day of the Lord is the year of recompenses.


Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.


Isaiah 34
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.

6 The sword of the Lord is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the Lord hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

7 And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.

8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

 

[rwb]

Let me ask you this, the Kingdom is an everlasting Kingdom, does this make the day of the Lord an everlasting day?

His Kingdom is indeed everlasting, but 'day' or 'days' implies [time] that has been given to the church on earth to complete the Kingdom of God as the Gospel is proclaimed unto all the nations of the earth. The Kingdom of God is everlasting, and once it is spiritually complete, it will come down physically from heaven as a bride prepared for her Husband on the new heaven and new earth, the holy city New Jerusalem. Then shall be a new habitation (tabernacle) for God to dwell with His people "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

 

[Davidpt]

Let me ask you this, the Kingdom is an everlasting Kingdom, does this make the day of the Lord an everlasting day?

Though, you didn't ask me that, the way I might respond to that is like such. If you don't mind it being dark and not light, even very dark, and no brightness in it for forever, maybe then the DOTL might fit an everlasting day. But if those things are not something one might desire for all eternity, then no, no the DOTL can't be an everlasting day.

 

[IndianaRob]

Read the whole context:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (KJV) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Paul tells us that some who are of the body of Christ physically have died. After their deaths, their spirit returned to God in heaven, just as the spirit of Christ did also.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Luke 23:46 (KJV) And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

The spirit of believers being eternally alive through His Spirit within does not cease to be living souls in heaven where they are the spiritual (no longer physical) body of Christ. On earth they were physically the body of Christ, but since our mortal & corruptible body cannot inherit the Kingdom of God in heaven physically, for them to have eternal life as Christ has promised, only the spiritual body of Christ is alive in heaven after they breathe their last.

It is this spiritual body of Christ who have put off their body of flesh that returns with Christ when the last trumpet sounds. They must return with Christ, because both physical and spiritual life is of the spirit naturally, and the Holy Spirit supernaturally. Our natural spirit gives our physical body life, and the Holy Spirit supernaturally gives everlasting life to our spirit, not our flesh & blood.

2 Corinthians 3:6 (KJV) Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

1 Peter 3:18 (KJV) For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

When the physical body of believers has died, it is raised, not resurrected because the spirit within believers can never die, but the spirit in believers through the power of the Holy Spirit leaves the natural body to be a spiritual body in heaven. It this were not true; Christ would not have assured us that when we live and believe in Him we shall NEVER die. Christ knew our physical flesh would eventually succumb to death, yet He tells us our life through Him shall never die, because Christ knew that after our body is dead and buried, believers ascend to heaven a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:44 (KJV) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

The spiritual body returns with Christ to once again give life to our resurrected physical body, only then our body is changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible, fit for everlasting life with Christ on the new earth, not this earth that shall be burned up. They are resurrected and changed and caught up to meet the Lord in the air (raptured). But they are not the only faithful saints to be caught up with the Lord. Because Paul tells us that whoever is still physically alive when the Lord comes again will also be raised up with them in bodies of flesh changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible. Then we shall be the complete Kingdom of God "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power." (1Cor 15:24)

1 Corinthians 15:50-54 (KJV) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Once the Kingdom of God (that is all who lived and believed in Christ for eternal life), have been caught up to meet the Lord in the air (raptured), the fire from heaven will consume every living thing left on this earth, so that all things can be made new again. Time for turning to Christ for eternal life shall be no longer (Rev 10:5-7).

Paul speaks of us-ward coming to repentance that we should not perish. Some will perish, and that shall be when the last trumpet sounds the Lord has come. The last trumpet, the day of the Lord, when He shall come again will come as a thief in the night to those who shall perish in the fervent heat with this earth when fire comes down from God out of heaven.

2 Peter 3:9-13 (KJV) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

I believe the context is the dead in Christ, which were the Old Testament believers in Christ, should rise first then Paul and everyone else that is a believer from the cross forward will be caught up to be with them in the air.

Question for you. If Jesus says that "whosoever believes in him shall never die" then who is the only people in history that could considered the dead in Christ?

Another question for you is do you believe Jesus comes for us just prior to our death and takes us home?