The absurdity of Pretrib logic

[Spiritual Israelite]

So He's Christ to those who are raptured, but Jesus to those who are resurrected.

What happens to those who confuse the names, and call Christ, Jesus; or call Jesus, Christ?

LOL. Did you catch that he indicated that those who are in Jesus are those who believe but deny He is the Christ as opposed to those who are in Christ who acknowledge that He is the Christ? And he says these people who are "in Jesus" but deny He is the Christ will be with Him when He comes but won't be raptured. He references 1 Thess 4:14 to support that idea as if "them which sleep in Jesus" who will come with Him when He comes are somehow not the same as "the dead in Christ".

But, I'm pretty sure liars/antichrists who deny that Jesus is the Christ will NOT be with Jesus when He comes. LOL.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

 

[covenantee]

LOL. Did you catch that he indicated that those who are in Jesus are those who believe but deny He is the Christ as opposed to those who are in Christ who acknowledge that He is the Christ? And he says these people who are "in Jesus" but deny He is the Christ will be with Him when He comes but won't be raptured. He references 1 Thess 4:14 to support that idea as if "them which sleep in Jesus" who will come with Him when He comes are somehow not the same as "the dead in Christ".

But, I'm pretty sure liars/antichrists who deny that Jesus is the Christ will NOT be with Jesus when He comes. LOL.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Yeah. Characteristic dispensational multispeak.

 

[Keraz]

So, why do you have some being resurrected BEFORE that time? Hmmm? That contradicts what Jesus taught in John 5:28-29. Do you care if you contradict what Jesus taught or not?

Because Revelation 20:4 says so.
You love to make nasty insinuations. They recoil upon your own head.

What can be said to those who insist in making scripture say what they want it to say? People like you who are willing to do that obviously can't be reasoned with.

Who is unreasonable, is the one who inserts a word into scripture in order to suit their wrong beliefs.
2 Cor 15:22 does NOT say 'all'. You are guilty of adding to scripture, if you think it means 'all the Christian dead'.

That is a lie. We simply interpret it differently than you do and don't "throw it into the bin" as you falsely accuse us of doing.

You AMill's say Revelation 20 is 'highly symbolic' and cannot be taken literally. Despite the plainly stated period of a thousand years. Reiterated six times!

Do you deny that scripture says the last days were already occurring on the day of Pentecost long ago as Peter indicated in Acts 2:16-21? Do you deny that scoffers scoff at Christ's coming in the last days while mockingly asking "where is the promise of His coming"? I show you clear scripture which indicates that the last days span from the first to the second coming of Christ and you just completely ignore it! That says it all about you.

What says it all about you, is your intransigent attitude; the inability to see how wrong you are.
Acts 2:14-21 does not say what happened at that Pentecost, was actually the 'last days'. Obviously it wasn't, as the cosmic events have not yet occurred.

 

[Keraz]

That's cool how it's going to go down though. If you think about it, the raptured Saints that Jesus brings back with Him for the Millenium will all have already receiver transformation into resurection bodies like Jesus had when He rose from the dead. So there will be the Lord, David, the Saints all living on the earth during the Millenium with the remaining mortals and those who are born into this period of time. They will continue to be born with tha adamic nature so there will be fence sitters who live on the earth but have not made Jesus their Lord yet.

This is a wrong belief.
No one will be made immortal until the Book of Life is opened at the Great White Throne Judgment; AFTER the Millennium. Rev 20:11-15

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Because Revelation 20:4 says so.
You love to make nasty insinuations. They recoil upon your own head.

Don't forget to look in the mirror when you say things like this.

Who is unreasonable, is the one who inserts a word into scripture in order to suit their wrong beliefs.
2 Cor 15:22 does NOT say 'all'. You are guilty of adding to scripture, if you think it means 'all the Christian dead'.

It most certainly does. Are you using a different Bible than I am?

1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Perhaps you meant verse 23? Even then you're clearly wrong. It is clearly implied because Paul said ALL would be made alive and proceeded to give the order of their resurrections. Christ's was first, of course. Next in order? It will be "they that are Christ's at his coming". No one else's resurrection is mentioned here, so it's obvious that the ALL who are in Christ and will be made alive are "they they are Christ's at his coming". Only doctrinal bias can prevent someone from seeing something so obvious.

You AMill's say Revelation 20 is 'highly symbolic' and cannot be taken literally. Despite the plainly stated period of a thousand years. Reiterated six times!

LOL! Your logic never makes any sense. The beast is mentioned over 30 times in the book of Revelation. Does that make it a literal beast with seven literal heads and ten literal horns?

What says it all about you, is your intransigent attitude; the inability to see how wrong you are.

Don't forget to look in the mirror.

Acts 2:14-21 does not say what happened at that Pentecost, was actually the 'last days'. Obviously it wasn't, as the cosmic events have not yet occurred.

I'm not saying it was ALL of the last days on that ONE day. But, it certainly was one of the last days or else Peter would not have applied Joel 2:28-32 to what was happening that day at all, but he did.

And, in 2 Peter 3:3-4, Peter said that in the last days there would be scoffers scoffing at the promise of Christ's second coming. Obviously, scoffers can only scoff at the promise of His second coming BEFORE He actually comes, not after. So, the last days occur BEFORE and leading up to His second coming. Again, only doctrinal bias can keep someone from seeing something so obvious. Why don't you let Peter tell you when the last days are instead of making Isaiah 2:2-4 say what you want it to say?

 

[WPM]

yes…dead IN CHRIST…IN Christ…not IN Jesus.

It takes a certain type of mindset that would buy into this drivel. Yet, you cannot find one text to support your error. Telling!

 

[WPM]

Now that's absolutely uncanny, that is the exact way that I learned it. If pretribbers are in delusion why are we all taught the same things?

That's cool how it's going to go down though. If you think about it, the raptured Saints that Jesus brings back with Him for the Millenium will all have already receiver transformation into resurection bodies like Jesus had when He rose from the dead. So there will be the Lord, David, the Saints all living on the earth during the Millenium with the remaining mortals and those who are born into this period of time. They will continue to be born with tha adamic nature so there will be fence sitters who live on the earth but have not made Jesus their Lord yet.

That should prove to be an exciting 1000 years! When Jesus had His resurection body He went popping in and out on the Disciples when they were at different locations or even behind locked doors! That will be fun to be able to do that!

It is a Jesuit spirit that has deceived many.

 

[WPM]

LOL. Did you catch that he indicated that those who are in Jesus are those who believe but deny He is the Christ as opposed to those who are in Christ who acknowledge that He is the Christ? And he says these people who are "in Jesus" but deny He is the Christ will be with Him when He comes but won't be raptured. He references 1 Thess 4:14 to support that idea as if "them which sleep in Jesus" who will come with Him when He comes are somehow not the same as "the dead in Christ".

But, I'm pretty sure liars/antichrists who deny that Jesus is the Christ will NOT be with Jesus when He comes. LOL.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

This alone should cause an earnest seeker to run from this nonsense. This is how the devil brings confusion.

 

[MA2444]

Crickets...

Dont you want to trade Testimonies? confused

 

[MA2444]

It is a Jesuit spirit that has deceived many.

So it's a deception for me to think that the Lord will rapture us out of here before it gets too bad?

You gave such a short answer. You really need to to expound on what little you said, dont'cha think?

 

[Keraz]

It most certainly does. Are you using a different Bible than I am?

1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Perhaps you meant verse 23? Even then you're clearly wrong. It is clearly implied because Paul said ALL would be made alive and proceeded to give the order of their resurrections. Christ's was first, of course. Next in order? It will be "they that are Christ's at his coming".

Yes, I did mean 1 Cor 15:23
Verse 22, refers to those whose names will be found in the Book of Life, after the Millennium.
ALL is not implied in verse 23, as that addition, contradicts Revelation 20:5, where it is plainly stated that the rest of the dead must wait until the thousand years is over.

I'm not saying it was ALL of the last days on that ONE day. But, it certainly was one of the last days or else Peter would not have applied Joel 2:28-32 to what was happening that day at all, but he did.

It is wakadoodle to think the 'last days', involves 2000 years.
Peter applied Joel 2:28-29 to what happened then, as it was a preview of that Prophecy, Proved by how the cosmic signes that both Joel and Peter mention, did not happen in the first century.

 

[covenantee]

It is wakadoodle to think the 'last days', involves 2000 years.

Hebrews 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

The Holy Spirit inspired wakadoodle.

Have you told Him?

What did He say?

 

[WPM]

So it's a deception for me to think that the Lord will rapture us out of here before it gets too bad?

You gave such a short answer. You really need to to expound on what little you said, dont'cha think?

It is a lie of the devil to believe anyone left behind when He comes will survive.

 

[MA2444]

It is a lie of the devil to believe anyone left behind when He comes will survive.

That sounds suspiciously like you believe in pretrib rapture then. We know that at least some go to heaven, right? So if what you say is true then we should be hoping to see Jesus now, pre trib.

WIll you clarify your position because if this is your thread then this is contradictory to the OP.

 

[Taken]

So He's Christ to those who are raptured, but Jesus to those who are resurrected.

What happens to those who confuse the names, and call Christ, Jesus; or call Jesus, Christ?

What happened when the Disciples called Jesus, Jesus, teacher, Rabbi, Lord, Master, Son of man, Son of God, Christ ?

What happens when Barron Trump calls Donald Trump dad, Donald, Mr. Trump, Mr. President ?

What happens if you call your dad, dad, by his first name, Mr. so-n-so, teacher, head of household, sweetheart, grandpa, neighbor?

What happened when OT men didn’t know Gods Word’s Name? Didn’t know Gods Power’s Name?

What happened when Jesus’ Disciples did not know Jesus was the Christ Messiah?

Everyone has multiple Names, Titles, Descriptions … others use to speak ABOUT or TO others distinguishing the relationship between one and an other.

Many people speak ABOUT Jesus, but do NOT accept Him being the Life, the Word, the Way, the Christ Messiah of God, nor the Son of God, nor the Power of God.

Many people speak of Jesus Christ, AS IF that is His given and surname.

All men belong to the Lord God Almighty…Some reject that relationship, and speak ABOUT Him in a manner of no relationship…
others embrace that relationship and speak TO and ABOUT the Lord God Almighty according to their freely accepted personal relationship with Him.

Perhaps you will find these facts as funny as your flippant comment discarding the seriousness of establishing a serious relationship one with an other.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

It takes a certain type of mindset that would buy into this drivel. Yet, you cannot support one text to support your error. Telling

AGAIN….here’s what you call “DRIVEL” plainly IN Scripture..

1 Thes 4:
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Need a cloth for your drool?

 

[Taken]

Now that's absolutely uncanny, that is the exact way that I learned it. If pretribbers are in delusion why are we all taught the same things?

Curious, if you do not mind sharing…
Were you raised in a church…which denomination?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[MA2444]

Curious, if you do not mind sharing…
Were you raised in a church…which denomination?

Glory to God,
Taken

My early years were spotty about instruction to me so I wouldnt say I was raised in a church. I was first taken to a Baptist church and also was taken by my G'ma to her SDA church. I've also been heavily influenced by pentecostals but I've never really identified with a denomination. I identify with Jesus. I really think I am pretty much non-demoninational.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Aren't you here to study and learn from the Word of God? If you want to learn from man, why bother coming into a forum that promotes study of the Bible?

We are doing two things here: explaining 1) what the Bible means and 2) why a particular interpretation is incorrect. In either case, it is helpful to the reader to explain complicated ideas using everyday examples.

 

[CadyandZoe]

We all are doing that, including you. I think I will stop doing that at this point and not waste any more time on you.


I could not care less how you interpret that. I have backed up my view with scripture many times extensively, so if you want to think I can't defend my position despite the fact that I do it more thoroughly and extensively than anyone on this forum besides WPM, then so be it.

I see that you attempt to back up your view with scripture, but sometimes, your view is incorrect. My point is that you resist correction through ridicule. Your call for proof is disingenuous.

Let's not forget, I too have substantiated my interpretation with scripture.