The absurdity of Pretrib logic

[rebuilder 454]

You make a good point about the passage in Acts 1. But I don't know how this relates to pre- or post- tribulation.

As a side note, I am unsure what people mean by "The Great Tribulation" since there is more than one way to understand that phrase.

Lots of people disagree on that term.
Several camps have it split up in "trib", "GT", "wrath".
It is actually a 7 yr great tribulation, with the last half containg greater trib or wrath.
I don't center much on that rabbit trail.
7 Years of great tribulation kicked off by the 4 horsemen.

 

[WPM]

During the tribulation.


Immediately after the tribulation of those the son and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven. Then appear the sign of the Son of Man. The second coming occurs there is a rapture and then the 7th is opened. The 7th seal is the Day of the Lord..........the day of His wrath.


The second coming occurs at the 6th seal. All go to heaven for the marriage supper and then Jesus returns with the armies of heaven

Yeah right. Those trumpets are a mirage. Pay no attention to the trumpets. They do nothing. It's that silence in heaven that is the concern. Get real. Total nonsense.

Each recap covers the intra-Advent period.

The marriage of the Lamb occurs in Revelation 19. Check it out.

 

[The Light]

The marriage of the Lamb occurs in Revelation 19. Check it out.

Of course the marriage supper of the Lamb occurs in Rev 19.

That is why the believers are in heaven. They were raptured before tribulation AND before the wrath of God. Two raptures, grain and fruit.

Revelation 19
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

 

[WPM]

Of course the marriage supper of the Lamb occurs in Rev 19.

That is why the believers are in heaven. They were raptured before tribulation AND before the wrath of God. Two raptures, grain and fruit.

Revelation 19
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

This is when we meet Christ. This is the consummation. This is the one and only coming of Christ.

 

[honeycomb]

I only see two Advents of Christ here, @The Light . Please share your thoughts on this verse. Thanks.

… so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

- Hebrews 9:28

PEtRA

 

[CadyandZoe]

Vs 14 is not about them.
The 144k are in heaven before vs 14's gathering

I don't see where the Bible says they are in heaven.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Lots of people disagree on that term.
Several camps have it split up in "trib", "GT", "wrath".
It is actually a 7 yr great tribulation, with the last half containg greater trib or wrath.
I don't center much on that rabbit trail.
7 Years of great tribulation kicked off by the 4 horsemen.

I think the great tribulation is longer than that, yes? Didn't the GT begin in the first century? And has it ended yet?

 

[The Light]

I only see two Advents of Christ here, @The Light . Please share your thoughts on this verse. Thanks.

… so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

- Hebrews 9:28

View attachment 49292PEtRA

Sure. Hebrews 9:28 is not an advent of Christ. The second advent is when Jesus sets His feet on the earth. That will occur when He sets His feet on the Mount of Olives at the end of the seventh seal.

The verse says to those who eagerly wait for Him will He appear a second time. It is those that are watching and ready for Him to come that He will appear to. There are five wise virgins and five foolish virgins. The wise understand that He is coming in an hour that we think not. That is why we are watching so we will know the hour that He comes. We are ready for the bridegroom to come when the time arrives.

 

[WPM]

Sure. Hebrews 9:28 is not an advent of Christ. The second advent is when Jesus sets His feet on the earth. That will occur when He sets His feet on the Mount of Olives at the end of the seventh seal.

The verse says to those who eagerly wait for Him will He appear a second time. It is those that are watching and ready for Him to come that He will appear to. There are five wise virgins and five foolish virgins. The wise understand that He is coming in an hour that we think not. That is why we are watching so we will know the hour that He comes. We are ready for the bridegroom to come when the time arrives.

The appearing of Christ is not an advent of Christ? Where does it say that in Scripture? And what happens to the wicked when Jesus comes?

 

[The Light]

I don't see where the Bible says they are in heaven.

Revelation 14
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

The 144,000 are redeemed FROM THE EARTH.

They are in heaven before the throne. We know that because they are the firstfruits of the harvest. That means they have been harvested and are presented to God before the throne.

 

[The Light]

I think the great tribulation is longer than that, yes? Didn't the GT begin in the first century? And has it ended yet?

The Great Tribulation will not begin until the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet is set up in the Temple. This event has not happened yet because the Antichrist will sit in the Temple of God and claim He is God. The Temple will be built shortly as they have the red heifers needed for cleansing.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The first Horseman That actually kicks off the GT Is the Antichrist ,he comes on a white horse, and He's a fake Jesus And murders millions of Christians. In order for the GT to have started somewhere in history you would have needed to see the requirement of worship of the Antichrist, and the mark either in the head or in the hand , and those refusing to all be killed .
that would be a huge part of the population of Earth, maybe a fourth of all the Earth would be Martyred.

I think the great tribulation is longer than that, yes? Didn't the GT begin in the first century? And has it ended yet?

 

[rebuilder 454]

I don't see where the Bible says they are in heaven.

They are before the throne, in heaven, and it says they have been redeemed the earth earth.
Yet another rapture.
I can not for the life if me see how anyone can think there is only one coming.
Seems impossible.

.....and postribbers ENTIRE BELIEF SYSTEM HINGES on one coming.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Sure. Hebrews 9:28 is not an advent of Christ. The second advent is when Jesus sets His feet on the earth. That will occur when He sets His feet on the Mount of Olives at the end of the seventh seal.

The verse says to those who eagerly wait for Him will He appear a second time. It is those that are watching and ready for Him to come that He will appear to. There are five wise virgins and five foolish virgins. The wise understand that He is coming in an hour that we think not. That is why we are watching so we will know the hour that He comes. We are ready for the bridegroom to come when the time arrives.

I have had fellow pre-tribers Vehemently Disagree With the fact That not all the church is raptured. It is kind of weird How someone can read Matthew 25 ,And not know ,Roughly half of the church is rejected.
I got kicked off of a forum Called " Rapture ready", by fellow Pre-Trib Believers, Because I told them Not all the church Is raptured To heaven ,and There are those left behind.
it totally freaked them out.

Permanently banned

 

[The Light]

The appearing of Christ is not an advent of Christ? Where does it say that in Scripture?

No. Jesus comes for the Church but does not set His feet on the earth.

Additionally, Jesus comes at the 6th seal. It is the second coming. He remains in the clouds and sends His angels.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

And what happens to the wicked when Jesus comes?

When Jesus comes for the Church only the wise virgins see Him.

When Jesus comes at the 6th seal all eyes will see the coming of the Lord. This is the second coming and the wicked are cast into the wrath of God.

Revelation 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

The second coming occurs at the 6th seal. The second advent occurs at the end of the 7th seal.

 

[The Light]

I have had fellow pre-tribers Vehemently Disagree With the fact That not all the church is raptured. It is kind of weird How someone can read Matthew 25 ,And not know ,Roughly half of the church is rejected.
I got kicked off of a forum Called " Rapture ready", by fellow Pre-Trib Believers, Because I told them Not all the church Is raptured To heaven ,and There are those left behind.
it totally freaked them out.

Permanently banned

Been there. They only want to hear what they believe on that forum.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Revelation 14
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

The 144,000 are redeemed FROM THE EARTH.

They are in heaven before the throne. We know that because they are the firstfruits of the harvest. That means they have been harvested and are presented to God before the throne.

The voice is coming from heaven. I see that. And since the voice is coming from heaven, this suggests to me that the 144K are on the earth.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The Great Tribulation will not begin until the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet is set up in the Temple. This event has not happened yet because the Antichrist will sit in the Temple of God and claim He is God. The Temple will be built shortly as they have the red heifers needed for cleansing.

Wasn't the Abomination of Desolation already set up? Wasn't the AOD the crucifixion of Jesus?

 

[CadyandZoe]

The first Horseman That actually kicks off the GT Is the Antichrist ,he comes on a white horse, and He's a fake Jesus And murders millions of Christians. In order for the GT to have started somewhere in history you would have needed to see the requirement of worship of the Antichrist, and the mark either in the head or in the hand , and those refusing to all be killed .
that would be a huge part of the population of Earth, maybe a fourth of all the Earth would be Martyred.

I always thought that the rider on the white horse was Rome itself, perhaps represented by Titus. No?

 

[CadyandZoe]

They are before the throne, in heaven, and it says they have been redeemed the earth earth.
Yet another rapture.
I can not for the life if me see how anyone can think there is only one coming.
Seems impossible.

.....and postribbers ENTIRE BELIEF SYSTEM HINGES on one coming.

I don't see mention of a throne. What verse is that?