The absurdity of Pretrib logic

[WPM]

No, I do not.

The absurdity of Pretrib logic is blank

 

[CadyandZoe]

There we differer.

God is Spirit.
A belief IN God, to have validity, MUST BE from a mans “spirit”.
Conversations with God are mans spirit to Gods Spirit.

Men can and do converse, discuss, mind to mind…

In Gods own approved words…
The carnal mind of man IS against God.
(Rom 8:7)


Glory to God,
Taken

Doesn't God command that we worship him body, soul, mind, and spirit? This indicates that the mind is different than the spirit in some way. Yes?

In his discussion of divine revelation, Paul talks about the "carnal" mind and compares the way the Greeks sought knowledge about God with his own approach. He does not claim that our minds are flawed or that our ability to reason is faulty. Instead, he focuses on the limitations of our rationality when it comes to understanding God.

There are two valid means to acquire knowledge about our world: empiricism and rationalism. There is nothing inherently wrong with these methods, but they have limitations when it comes to understanding God. Paul even argues that we can empirically know about God by looking at his creation. He writes, "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made . . ." By means of empiricism, we can gain important information about the nature of God.

But to understand God's will for mankind and his plans for our future, we must rely on apostles and prophets for detailed knowledge about what God has on his mind.

Anyway, a carnal mind isn't broken; it is simply limited to what we can experience directly or deduce from the physical world. Biblical knowledge about God, on the other hand, is not limited to what we can see or what we can deduce. God has blessed us with spokesmen who can tell us, "Thus saith the Lord."

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That is false.

Where do you explain exactly how you interpret the scripture you reference and why you interpret it the way you do? Have you ever once actually exegeted any scripture? Not that I've seen. You certainly didn't do that in the post I was responding to.

You waste plenty of others time.

You are not obligated to talk to me or read my posts. No one is. So, I can't possibly be wasting anyone's time. You are wasting your own time if you are doing something that you consider to be a waste of time.

 

[jeffweeder]

One of the positives that has come out of this thread is the total exposure of Amils lack of ability to make timeline charts because of their rejection of the end times times frames given in the bible as literal.

In all of their enrichening correspondence, I don't see Amills like Jesus, Paul, Peter or Jude using them either.

What did you think of my last post to you? 1062.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Open your Bible and start presenting biblical arguments instead of your usual insults.

No matter how many times we ask them to do this, they won't do it. They know they can't. So, they hide that fact by distracting us with insults.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In all of their enrichening correspondence, I don't see Amills like Jesus, Paul, Peter or Jude using them either.

LOL! Great one, Jeff. They were all able to explain the timing of events without once using a chart. Imagine that.

 

[WPM]

In all of their enrichening correspondence, I don't see Amills like Jesus, Paul, Peter or Jude using them either.

What did you think of my last post to you? 1062.

That is all he has. He has no Scripture that corroborates them. He will not answer simple questions re Daniel 9.

 

[CadyandZoe]

No matter how many times we ask them to do this, they won't do it. They know they can't. So, they hide that fact by distracting us with insults.

You've been in this thread a long time. What do you get out of it?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

My post to YOU was…

Does that mean…YOU believe Scripture teaches symbolism and literalism?

IF your answer is YES…

You answered nether YES or No.

My post continued “IF” you answered “YES”…

“THEN how DO YOU determine what IN Scripture IS symbolism and What IS literal ?”

I find neither your YES or NO…
Or your answer to how you made a determination regarding my question.

Thus your response was irrelevant.

We all believe that some scripture is symbolic and some is literal, so what are you even trying to say here?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You've been in this thread a long time. What do you get out of it?

I'm here to teach the lurkers the truth of scripture. There are most likely more of them than we might think. I was on a forum some time back which would show how many people were looking at the forum without being logged in and it was quite a few.

 

[jeffweeder]

Open your Bible and start presenting biblical arguments

Like this...,

4 Therefore, we speak of you with pride among the churches of God for your steadfastness [your unflinching endurance, and patience] and your firm faith in the midst of all the persecution and [crushing] distress which you endure.
5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering.
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him].
9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed and trusted [and confirmed in your lives].


from Paul, the post trib Amill.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Like this...,

4 Therefore, we speak of you with pride among the churches of God for your steadfastness [your unflinching endurance, and patience] and your firm faith in the midst of all the persecution and [crushing] distress which you endure.
5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering.
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him].
9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed and trusted [and confirmed in your lives].


from Paul, the post trib Amill.

Amen. And for those reading that, it is from 2nd Thessalonians 1. Paul very clearly placed the timing of the rapture at the same time of the Lord's wrath on all of His enemies when He returns. Just like Jesus did in Matthew 24:29-51 (Mark 13:24-37, Luke 17:26-37).

 

[Taken]

Doesn't God command that we worship him body, soul, mind, and spirit?

John 4:
[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

This indicates that the mind is different than the spirit in some way. Yes?

Yes. The Mind ciphers Between this idea, that idea, this belief, that belief. You hear this man speak, and decide to believe him or not.
The mind can believe LIES, “if you decide what you here makes sense to you.”

The spirit of man, doesn’t cipher Between this and that…Either you Believe Gods Word or you Do not.

From there … it is PERSONAL, between ONE man and God.

Scripture is FULL of scenarios that is specific between ONE man and God … that may also apply to other, or may not also apply to other.

IOW…ALL of Scripture IS True.
Yet NOT ALL of Scripture APPLIES to ALL men who have A ONE on ONE Relationship WITH God.

I have a one on one Relationship with God, that was MADE possible, by, through, of Lord Jesus…AND my Acceptance of THAT Possibility and Offering MADE available to all men.
It was Gods Offering, and His Offering was conditional, exclusive, be that a willing man accept His Offering According to “HIS way”…

Not much different than men agreeing with men to an offer, according to the terms…(often called the fine print) that the one who IS ‘offering” decides and reveals.

Gods “TERMS” are revealed in Scripture, according to Gods “order and way”.

In his discussion of divine revelation, Paul talks about the "carnal" mind and compares the way the Greeks sought knowledge about God with his own approach. He does not claim that our minds are flawed or that our ability to reason is faulty. Instead, he focuses on the limitations of our rationality when it comes to understanding God.

There are two valid means to acquire knowledge about our world: empiricism and rationalism. There is nothing inherently wrong with these methods, but they have limitations when it comes to understanding God. Paul even argues that we can empirically know about God by looking at his creation. He writes, "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made . . ." By means of empiricism, we can gain important information about the nature of God.

But to understand God's will for mankind and his plans for our future, we must rely on apostles and prophets for detailed knowledge about what God has on his mind.

Anyway, a carnal mind isn't broken; it is simply limited to what we can experience directly or deduce from the physical world. Biblical knowledge about God, on the other hand, is not limited to what we can see or what we can deduce. God has blessed us with spokesmen who can tell us, "Thus saith the Lord."

God revealed HIS Knowledge regarding mans Carnal Mind…Which is most useful, beneficial, for gathering knowledge, reasoning, making routine daily decisions about ALL kinds of things in daily life of man….
(What foods you like, or not, what kind of house you like, it’s furnishing, automobile, places to go, things to do, skills to learn….blah, blah…NOT Spiritual, NOT a concern to God if you buy your kid a pool or a baseball…)

HOWEVER…Having a relationship with God, a conversation with God, blessings from God, Gifts From God, Understanding From God, Praising God, Worshiping God, Thanking God…
IS on a Different Level….called SPIRITUAL.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Where do you explain exactly how you interpret the scripture you reference and why you interpret it the way you do? Have you ever once actually exegeted any scripture? Not that I've seen. You certainly didn't do that in the post I was responding to.


You are not obligated to talk to me or read my posts. No one is. So, I can't possibly be wasting anyone's time. You are wasting your own time if you are doing something that you consider to be a waste of time.

I don’t interpret Scripture.
I read the Knowledge in Scripture.
I study particular Topics revealed in multiple Scriptures regarding that particular Topic.
When I am prepared…having read and studied…
THEN VIA my “spirit to Gods Spirit”, I ask God for His Understanding.
THEN…I wait…until the day, the hour, He reveals to me His Understanding.

I don’t engage IN EVERY SINGLE TOPIC people post on this forum.
I will engage IN particular TOPICS, I of course KNOW the Depth of my own reading, hearing, study, and Conversations with God Asking for His Understanding…
AND have full trust and confidence in Gods revelations to me regarding my queries.

What this guy or that guy says, what credentials or titles this guy or that guys has…matters not to me…

I Know by how another RESPONDS, if they DO as I DO, (according to Gods order and way) OR:
as their Carnal Mind or influence of some random others Carnal Mind Leads them to Believe as THEY DO.
(In short it is Knowing another by their fruits).

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[WPM]

I don’t interpret Scripture.
I read the Knowledge in Scripture.
I study particular Topics revealed in multiple Scriptures regarding that particular Topic.
When I am prepared…having read and studied…
THEN VIA my “spirit to Gods Spirit”, I ask God for His Understanding.
THEN…I wait…until the day, the hour, He reveals to me His Understanding.

I don’t engage IN EVERY SINGLE TOPIC people post on this forum.
I will engage IN particular TOPICS, I of course KNOW the Depth of my own reading, hearing, study, and Conversations with God Asking for His Understanding…
AND have full trust and confidence in Gods revelations to me regarding my queries.

What this guy or that guy says, what credentials or titles this guy or that guys has…matters not to me…

I Know by how another RESPONDS, if they DO as I DO, (according to Gods order and way) OR:
as their Carnal Mind or influence of some random others Carnal Mind Leads them to Believe as THEY DO.
(In short it is Knowing another by their fruits).

Glory to God,
Taken

Yea right! If someone disagrees with you then they have a "carnal mind." How delusional and prideful! It is impossible engaging with such a mindset.

 

[Taken]

We all believe that some scripture is symbolic and some is literal, so what are you even trying to say here?

I was ASKING…not NOT STATING.

You answer by making a presumptive statement of what all other believe…which IMPLIES…words revealed in Scripture…
ARE either LITERAL or NOT LITERAL…
Which Easily (and often translates) in Scriptural Discussion AS. TRUE or NOT TRUE.

My view IS…Regardless if a man hears scripture, and regards that scripture AS…Literal or Symbolic….
Literally True or Not Literally True…

If Jesus said it I CARE NOT, how men categorize Jesus’ Words…(literal, symbolic, literally true, not literally true, a story, a parable, etc.)
I Trust and Believe without hesitation or doubt…IT IS Factually TRUE. PERIOD.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Yea right!

Your snarky response is noted.

If someone disagrees with you then they have a "carnal mind."

I said nothing about another “agreeing with me”…. I spoke for MYSELF….I can hear and recognize WHO agrees with whom…
Men will post a plethora…of this guy and that guy who said this or that…”this saint, that saint, this scholar, that scholar, this preacher that priest, that pope”…irrelevant to me.

How delusional and prideful! It is impossible engaging with such a mindset.

So you made a claim…FOR ME…then bashed the claim you made….FOR ME…

Not rocket science to observe your words are from your Carnal minds thoughts…

Gaslighter.

 

[Douggg]

In all of their enrichening correspondence, I don't see Amills like Jesus, Paul, Peter or Jude using them either.

What did you think of my last post to you? 1062.

The first resurrection, which you referred to in your post, is not a general resurrection. But a resurrection specifically for the great tribulation martyrs who did not worship the beast, his image, nor took his mark, as it says in Revelation 20:4.

Relative to the millennium, the literal thousand years, there will be two resurrections.

The first is that of great tribulation martyrs, Revelation 20:4-5 - at the beginning of the thousand years. The second is a general resurrection of the rest of the dead, for the Great White Throne judgement, after the millennium is over.

It is at the second resurrection that this present earth is destroyed, alluded to in Revelation 20:11.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

------------------------------------------------

So there is a literal millennium of 1000 years of Jesus's physical rule on this present earth. Which Jesus's Second Coming is right before the millennium starts - thus, called pre-millennium.... and is the basis for the pre-mil view.

 

[WPM]

Your snarky response is noted.



I said nothing about another “agreeing with me”…. I spoke for MYSELF….I can hear and recognize WHO agrees with whom…
Men will post a plethora…of this guy and that guy who said this or that…”this saint, that saint, this scholar, that scholar, this preacher that priest, that pope”…irrelevant to me.



So you made a claim…FOR ME…then bashed the claim you made….FOR ME…

Not rocket science to observe your words are from your Carnal minds thoughts…

Gaslighter.

Please do not go there. Don't be hypocritical. Pretribbers (including yourself) have hurled the following venom. Is this from carnal minds or is this Christlike?

All that egg on his face and his remedy is to smear more on it.

What a hoot.

Let's calm down and try to remedy your facesmear with all that gooey egg.

We can start with retrieving your needed omissions.

You are sitting there with so much egg on your face you can not see that your house is on fire, but you turn to your air purifier for a ridiculous remedy.

You rode that beast/doctrine that carried you into the desert and I slew it. Now you are a foot. Time to get with it. Get that Bible out and enjoy the ride. Be free and agree with Jesus and His Holy Book.

Get thee behind me satan.

Dont twist my words Satan.

that's not your agenda here! Satan!

You should seek someone to lay hands hands on you and see if you can get that evil spirit cast out of you.

That's just like the gay guys and the trans supporters and gbtzers and all of their ilk.

Are you and him gay too? You have the same spirit. You guys sound just them guys. Ok go on crusade against me boi.

Wow, look at that. Jerico started a good thread, and it's like the enemy dispatched a platoon of evil ones who seek to shut it down and derail it.

an evil band of spirits instruct people to shut that thread down!

I think all you evil spirits here to disrupt and distract from the truth have shot yourself in the foot in this thread.

evil spirits say, rapture doctrine is wrong

you have no heart.

Gaslighter.

I don’t have a one-liner toddler version for you.

I'm pretty sure his nickname is Christmas as he is slow as Christmas

You are Kukoo.

There's that 60 IQ shining through for you.

you have the comprehension of a 60 IQ man

Gossip on Mamm...Have you been staying home with the ladies too much or what?

Pull your panties back down outta your crack for now about it has to be pretrib. I'll get to that soon enough, lol.

Dont debate like a woman. If you (continue) to not offer a correction to the truth makes it seem like you debate like a woman.

No offense brother, but you talk like a woman.

You posting scriptures that dont even match what you're saying and then getting frustrated and popping off....is exactly how women talk

You showed your true colors. You & your wife and your son?

I've been trying for days to get your wife to turn to the book of Daniel and she refuses.

Then you weirdos say they have no scripture...

Every post of yours is now trashy ghetto juvenile nothing-ness.

As you demonstrate manfully.. ...

When you get push back ,you go to default trigger mode and show us your ghetto talk.

SI has gone total ghetto mode.



It is comical imagining him at a podium and cussing and screaming when someone challenges his error.

" OK ladies and gentlemen, we will go to a commercial, as we sort this out"

...all the time he is screaming in the background... ...

Easy to see why God Himself said the Carnal Mind is against Him…the same holds true of men against men!

Pity on you.

Matt 13:[14] And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

It is beyond your comprehension BECAUSE it is “EASIER” to simply maintain your stubbornness and REJECT, rather than to “DISCOVER” the meaning of Jesus’ teaching, and HOW TO, understand the meaning of Jesus’ teaching.It’s not rocket-science.

Well, what was your career? I know it was nothing technical. I know it was nothing in mathematics. I think most likely just manual labor. Small chance of sales but it would be at a shoe store or target, Best Buy of the like. Not likely you would sell anything like air conditioners or such things.

From your responses I can tell you are retired or without a job, and you when you did work it was likely a manual labor position.

Here are those attackers:

@MA2444
@Taken
@rebuilder 454
@The Light

And guess what? Not one single apology from one of you! Shame on you Pretribbers!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I was ASKING…not NOT STATING.

Asking what? You don't know how to communicate at all. Your words are clear as mud.

You answer by making a presumptive statement of what all other believe…which IMPLIES…words revealed in Scripture…
ARE either LITERAL or NOT LITERAL…
Which Easily (and often translates) in Scriptural Discussion AS. TRUE or NOT TRUE.

What? Is English nor your first language? I have no idea of what you're intending to say here.

My view IS…Regardless if a man hears scripture, and regards that scripture AS…Literal or Symbolic….
Literally True or Not Literally True…

I can't make any sense of what you're saying. If you're saying that both symbolic and literal text are true, then, yes, of course, that is right. We all believe that. Is that what you're saying?

If Jesus said it I CARE NOT, how men categorize Jesus’ Words…(literal, symbolic, literally true, not literally true, a story, a parable, etc.)
I Trust and Believe without hesitation or doubt…IT IS Factually TRUE. PERIOD.

I do, too. Yet, we don't agree at times in our understanding of what He said. Nonetheless, neither of us would ever say that He ever said anything that isn't true. As Paul said, "Let God be true and every man a liar". God is always right whether we understand Him accurately or not. Agree?