The absurdity of Pretrib logic

[WPM]

Nope. Not a problem at all when we realize there are two raptures. One for the Church Pretrib and one for the 12 tribes across the earth post trib...............which is pre wrath.

And you do have the Church going through the wrath of God when we are clearly told that we are not appointed to wrath. Over and over again your beliefs do not line up with scripture. You need to tell your teachers that they are clueless and confused.

All you have is personal words/your opinions, no Scripture. The reader can see that.

 

[Douggg]

Jesus likened that day to Noah and Lot's day. How many escaped then?

Noah and his family. Lot and his family (except for his wife).

The point that was being made was that the world will be at ease when the day of the Lord begins.

Do you literally believe the wicked will experience "sudden destruction" from His appearance as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?
Do you literally believe the wicked "shall not escape" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?

I think you need to rephrase your questions to a more grammatically correct form as ...

Do you believe that the wicked will literally experience "sudden destruction" from His appearance as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?

Do you believe the wicked literally "shall not escape" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?

My answer, same as I have stated previous posts, is "yes", but I do not interpret "sudden destruction" as meaning everyone will die. Although there will a massive number of people who will die during the great tribulation, including martyred great tribulation saints, i.e. them who become Christians during the great tribulation.

When Jesus returns, He will rule the nations with a rod of iron. As will Christians who overcome and keep Jesus's works unto the end.

Revelation 2:
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Hello! We are in the trib. It has been ongoing since the early Church. The NT Church has always been in tribulation. Where is your future Pretrib rapture in Revelation?

No verses
Just speculation

 

[The Light]

All you have is personal words/your opinions, no Scripture. The reader can see that.

Two folds into one

John 10
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Shows Israel was chosen as 1st harvest but they served other Baalpeor. The Gentiles become the 1st harvest as the fig tree has two harvests.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

Show Christ has come because the elders have their crowns.

Revelation 4
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

We can escape all these things that come to pass and stand before the Son of man

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

One coming like the days of Noah and one coming like the days of Lot. The irony is that you think there is only one coming and it is after wrath. Where the Word shows we are not appointed to wrath.

I could keep posting scriptures but you can't even understand these. There are five wise virgins and five foolish virgins. The wise are watching and ready.

 

[rebuilder 454]

All you have is personal words/your opinions, no Scripture. The reader can see that.

...as you have demonstrated about yourself concerning your posts

 

[rebuilder 454]

LOL!!!!!!!!! In the post-trib rapture taught by the Bible, Jesus gathers FROM HEAVEN and FROM THE EARTH. Hello! Wake up! LOL!!!!!

Here's the gathering from heaven:

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Here's the gathering from the earth:

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


You have no idea of what you're talking about!!!! LOL!!!!!

I am not the one re inventing " firstfruits"

So you definately have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Douggg]

I already showed you what the Bible said about the third woe. The passage you quoted does not mention the third woe.

It seems like in your estimation, any time the word "woe" comes up in Revelation it refers to the 3rd woe? I believe your confusion emanates from the fact that you view Revelation as a chronological book. That is the only way you can come to such an assumption.

I already gave you the context for the third wow and you simply ignored it. It is hard to engage with you when you do that.

Revelation 11:14-19: “The second woe is past (the great battle); and, behold, the third woe (the last trump – the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ) cometh quickly. And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

The climactic Second coming is the 3rd woe! This is the end. This is the general judgment. This is when all rebellion is finally subjugateed. Check it out. You miss how Revelation is written and parallels.

Revelation 12 takes us right back to the first advent. It shows us Christ "the man child" being caught up to rule and reign during this intra-Advent period.

You did not say what woe number is the woe to the inhabiters of the earth in Revelation 12:12.

I want you to read that verse again, and carefully consider what is being said in the first part of it (underlined).

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Now please consider what them in heaven are doing when they heard the seventh trumpet sound back in Revelation 11:14-19. They are rejoicing !

Revelation 11:14-19 is the reaction of them in heaven when the seventh trumpet sounds. They rejoice over it and praise God. The seventh trumpet woe is not Jesus's second coming, but Satan cast down to earth.

The seventh trumpet sounding means the time of the end of Satan - the troublemaker - and his mystical kingdom has come at last.

That's why them in heaven are rejoicing in Revelation 11:14-19; it is their reaction.

 

[The Light]

No verses
Just speculation

He has no verses because all the verses WPM posts on this are out of context.

The tribulation of those days is the great tribulation. I have posted verses for him many times that show this. But his replay is always no verses have been posted.

 

[rebuilder 454]

This is all noise. Where is your future Pretrib rapture in Revelation?

We do see one DURING THE TRIB.
AHEM...that alone destroys your deal.
Which is why you avoid it.

 

[rebuilder 454]

He has no verses because all the verses WPM posts on this are out of context.

The tribulation of those days is the great tribulation. I have posted verses for him many times that show this. But his replay is always no verses have been posted.

He said a few posts back we are in the great tribulation.
Some of these postribbers are way,way,way out there.
Grand canyon leaps that actually need their own thread.

 

[WPM]

Noah and his family. Lot and his family (except for his wife).

The point that was being made was that the world will be at ease when the day of the Lord begins.


I think you need to rephrase your questions to a more grammatically correct form as ...

Do you believe that the wicked will literally experience "sudden destruction" from His appearance as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?

Do you believe the wicked literally "shall not escape" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?

My answer, same as I have stated previous posts, is "yes", but I do not interpret "sudden destruction" as meaning everyone will die. Although there will a massive number of people who will die during the great tribulation, including martyred great tribulation saints, i.e. them who become Christians during the great tribulation.

When Jesus returns, He will rule the nations with a rod of iron. As will Christians who overcome and keep Jesus's works unto the end.

Revelation 2:
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Stop avoiding! Do you believe the wicked literally "shall not escape" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?

You know in Lot and Noah's day all the elect were immediately and totally rescued and all the wicked were immediately and totally destroyed. So it will be when Jesus appears.

Lot and his 2 daughters and Noah and his family are a picture of the catching away of the saints. Those left behind will face the same fate as those left behind in Lot and Noah's day - total annihilation.

 

[WPM]

No verses
Just speculation

That is all you have now, words and no Scripture.

 

[WPM]

We do see one DURING THE TRIB.
AHEM...that alone destroys your deal.
Which is why you avoid it.

Oh, so you are now midtrib?

 

[WPM]

He said a few posts back we are in the great tribulation.
Some of these postribbers are way,way,way out there.
Grand canyon leaps that actually need their own thread.

That is all you have now, words and no Scripture.

 

[WPM]

He has no verses because all the verses WPM posts on this are out of context.

The tribulation of those days is the great tribulation. I have posted verses for him many times that show this. But his replay is always no verses have been posted.

More avoidance.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Apparently, there is only one thing that is going to prove to Pretribbers that they are wrong about a Pretrib rapture. And that is not any arguments that post tribbers are submitting, including any that I might submit. The only thing that is going to convince them at this point is when Matthew 24:21 begins and that they are still here. They can't deny they were wrong about Pretrib at that point. Because if they were correct about a Pretrib rapture instead, they would not still be here during when Matthew 24:21 is meaning. Therefore, it's just a matter of time when Pretrib will have been undeniably proven wrong when Matthew 24:21 begins and that all Pretribbers are still here.

The Four Horsemen kickoff the Great Tribulation. The rise of the Antichrist is right away. The Bible says he kills every man woman and child where they're free or Bond that refuses the mark. There is no such of a thing as any postribber running around trying to save their lives with the Antichrist chasing them the entire trib, with an ax, to chop off their head. All believers are rounded up right away and are martyred. There is no post tribulation rapture at the white horses. It clearly says in Matthew that angels together from heaven that's at the white horses coming. So yes the Saints are in heaven and they are gathered and they are mounted on Millions if not billions of white horses that blacken the sky when Jesus comes as a warrior king. He comes to slaughter. That Slaughter is so great that vultures Feast on dead bodies for days. If you just keep reading in Matthew, which I know is extremely difficult for any of you, you will see that before the flood we are told to watch and be ready because one will be taken in another one left behind.
So until you guys reconcile verses, you need to be careful in a doctrine of omissions.

Once I discovered " before the flood", and the rapture of rev 14, during the trib, the deal is over for you guys.
None of you can go toe to toe with my Bible.
No postribber stands a chance against a man with a Bible.
It is like shooting ducks in a barrel.

 

[WPM]

Two folds into one

John 10
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Shows Israel was chosen as 1st harvest but they served other Baalpeor. The Gentiles become the 1st harvest as the fig tree has two harvests.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

Show Christ has come because the elders have their crowns.

Revelation 4
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

We can escape all these things that come to pass and stand before the Son of man

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

One coming like the days of Noah and one coming like the days of Lot. The irony is that you think there is only one coming and it is after wrath. Where the Word shows we are not appointed to wrath.

I could keep posting scriptures but you can't even understand these. There are five wise virgins and five foolish virgins. The wise are watching and ready.

None of this proves Pretrib. Presenting random Scriptures does not prove a rapture of the Church, followed by a tribulation period, followed by a third coming of the Lord. None of you can show this because it does not exist in the Word of God. It can only be found in your Left Behind novels.

The harvest of Israel saw many Gentiles come in. The harvest of the Gentiles is nearing an end and has saw many Jews come in. All that awaits us now is the one final future glorious climatic coming of Christ to judge mankind.

 

[rebuilder 454]

That is all you have now, words and no Scripture.

You have no verses.
As you just demonstrated.

 

[WPM]

You have no verses.
As you just demonstrated.

LOL. Read the OP. You have ducked around those compelling Scriptures for long enough! I wonder why?

 

[rebuilder 454]

None of this proves Pretrib. Presenting random Scriptures does not prove a rapture of the Church, followed by a tribulation period, followed by a third coming of the Lord. None of you can show this because it does not exist in the Word of God. It can only be found in your Left Behind novels.

The harvest of Israel saw many Gentiles come in. The harvest of the Gentiles is nearing an end and has saw many Jews come in. All that awaits us now is the one final future glorious climatic coming of Christ to judge mankind.

In " before the flood" of mat 24
In " like manner" of Acts 1
In " the gathering of the bride" in mat 25
In Rev 14 gathering with a sickle.

NONE OF THOSE PRETRIB GATHERINGS HAS ANY JUDGEMENT.
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