The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

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Brakelite

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By the way, where are those stone tablets containing the 10 commandments?


That's a great question... Wouldn't an archeologist love to find the ark? I am sure you realize though that those stone tablets, even the ones Moses broke, weren't the original commandments.

KJV Hebrews 8:3-5
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount...
KJV Hebrews 9:23-24
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

KJV Revelation 15:5
5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened
:

Moses made the earthly sanctuary, "according to the fashion that he had seen." Paul declares that "the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry," when completed, were "the patterns of things in the heavens." Acts 7:44; Hebrews 9:21,23.
And John says that he saw the sanctuary in heaven. That sanctuary, in which Jesus ministers in our behalf, is the great original, of which the sanctuary built by Moses was a copy.

The ark of the covenant/testimony acted as a type for the throne of God, the mercy seat between the cherubim being where the shekinah glory and the presence of God met with Moses. That the Ten Commandments were placed under the mercy seat within the ark...antitypically the throne of God, tells me of the importance and sacredness of His law. Such importance was not placed upon those statutes which God gave to Moses which Moses wrote in a 'book' and was subsequently placed at the side of the ark...thus a marked difference is demonstrated between the law of God and what is called the law of Moses.
It was transgression against God's commandments which necessitated the death of Christ as atonement. That death was foreshadowed by the sacrifices and priesthood, and the services of the sanctuary with it's associated feast days, all meeting their fulfillment at Calvary. This, for the Jew, was the gospel, and the remedy for transgression against God's law.
However. The weekly Sabbath was never a remedy for transgression, although in later times it acted as a sign of God's redemptive power. It was never a shadow or type, nor was it established as such. It was established, like marriage, before sin entered into the world, therefore could not act as an instrument foreshadowing Christ's sacrifice and atonement.
Man, in taking upon himself the authority to change anything designated and treated by God as sacred and holy, (like displacing God's holy day with a common day never so designated, is mixing the sacred with the profane) and is stepping over a line and for Protestants in particular who claim scripture as the basis for doctrine and practise, is especially egregious and indefensible.

The Sabbath is a day sanctified, set apart and hallowed, for the purpose of relationship. A day for man to leave his common work and his labor, to spend time serving his fellow man, fellowshipping with those in need and his brothers and sisters in Christ, and worshipping in community as a testimony and witness to God's redemptive and creative power and authority.

"Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy...'

"The Sabbath was made for man..."

"Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you".
 

Brakelite

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Very interesting. And so is this.

Galatians 5:2-6 (NKJV)
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

Circumcision was a BIG command under the Law. We are clearly not under the Law, just the New Covenant given to us by the Blood of Jesus.

Matthew 26:28 (NKJV)
28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
You are correct, circumcision was a very big deal. Which is why there was such controversy, debate, and furor over the NT Christians who taught that circumcision was no longer necessary as sign of relationship and commitment to the Lord. Yet the Sabbath was an institution that predated circumcision by a millennia or two. The Sabbath was even more important and more vital to the Israelite than circumcision, by far. The only person rebuked for not being circumcised was Moses' son. But the entire nation was taken into captivity by numerous foreign powers because they neglected the Sabbath. And yet we are told that the NT church suddenly changed the day of communal worship from the Sabbath to the first day of the week, without as much as a whimper, a cry, an objection, a debate or complain from anyone!!
It is in fact quite ironic. The only complaints and protests came from papal Rome when Christians refused to honor Sunday, and favored the Sabbath instead.
 

Jack

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You are correct, circumcision was a very big deal. Which is why there was such controversy, debate, and furor over the NT Christians who taught that circumcision was no longer necessary as sign of relationship and commitment to the Lord. Yet the Sabbath was an institution that predated circumcision by a millennia or two. The Sabbath was even more important and more vital to the Israelite than circumcision, by far. The only person rebuked for not being circumcised was Moses' son. But the entire nation was taken into captivity by numerous foreign powers because they neglected the Sabbath. And yet we are told that the NT church suddenly changed the day of communal worship from the Sabbath to the first day of the week, without as much as a whimper, a cry, an objection, a debate or complain from anyone!!
It is in fact quite ironic. The only complaints and protests came from papal Rome when Christians refused to honor Sunday, and favored the Sabbath instead.
And yet Jesus was with His disciples who were working on the Sabbath.
 
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Brakelite

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And yet Jesus as with His disciples who were working on the Sabbath.
Yes, but I covered that when I described what was to be done on the Sabbath...
The Sabbath is a day sanctified, set apart and hallowed, for the purpose of relationship. A day for man to leave his common work and his labor, to spend time serving his fellow man...
Christian duty to your neighbor doesn't get nullified because it's Sabbath. Quite the opposite, "it is lawful to do well on the Sabbath day".
 

Jack

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No Sabbath COMMANDS in the New Covenant! Jesus would have had to had his disciples executed as the Law COMMANDED!

John 1:17 (NKJV)
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Galatians 2:21 (NKJV)
21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."
 
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J

Johann

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No Sabbath COMMANDS in the New Covenant! Jesus would have had to had his disciples executed as the Law COMMANDED!

John 1:17 (NKJV)
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Galatians 2:21 (NKJV)
21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."
SABBATH

This is from the Hebrew word (BDB 992, KB 1409) meaning "rest" or "cessation." It is connected to the seventh day of creation (see John H. Walton, The Lost World of Genesis One) where God ceased His labor after finishing initial creation and rested (cf. Gen. 2:1-3). God did not rest because He was tired, but because (1) creation was complete and good (cf. Gen. 1:31) and (2) to give mankind a regular pattern for worship and rest.

The usage as a day of worship starts with Gen. 2:2-3, where YHWH uses His rest as a pattern for animals (cf. Exod. 23:12) and mankind (humans need a regular schedule of work, rest, and worship).

The Sabbath begins like all the days of Genesis 1, at twilight; therefore, twilight on Friday to twilight on Saturday was the official time period. All the details of its observance are given in Exodus (especially chapters 16,20,31, and 35) and Leviticus (especially chapters 23-26). The first specialized use of this day by Israel was in Exod. 16:25-26 in the gathering of manna. It then becomes part of "the Ten Words" (cf. Exod. 20:8-11; Deut. 5:12-15). This is one example where the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20 are slightly different from the Ten Commandments in Deuteronomy 5. Deuteronomy is preparing Israel for the settled, agricultural life in Canaan.

The Pharisees had taken these regulations and, by their oral discussions, interpreted them (i.e., the Oral Traditions) to include many rules.

Jesus often performed miracles, knowingly violating their picky rules so as to enter into a theological dialogue with them (i.e., Matthew 12). It was not the Sabbath that Jesus rejected or belittled, but their self-righteous legalism and lack of love (cf. Mark 2:27-28).

The early church worshiped on both the Sabbath and the first day of the week (i.e., Sunday, resurrection day, cf. John 20:1,19; Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2).

The Synagogue addressed the growing Christian movement by demanding members to reject Jesus as the Messiah (i.e., The Eighteen Benedictions). At this point (i.e., a.d. 70) the Christians began to meet exclusively on Sunday.

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS (cf. Exod. 20:1-17; Deut. 5:6-21)

I. Terms

A. Literally "The Ten Words" (cf. Exod. 34:28; Deut. 4:13; 10:4).

B. Clement of Alexandria called it "The Decalogue" (Deka Logous) and this was followed by the early church fathers.

C. In the Bible it is also called:

1. "Covenant" (i.e., Hebrew berith, cf. Exod. 34:28; Deut. 4:13; 9:9;

a. from Akkadian, barah – to eat (i.e., a common meal)

b. from Akkadian, biritu – to bind or fetter (i.e., a bond between people)

c. from Akkadian, birit – between (i.e., arrangement between two parties)

d. baru – a taste (i.e., an obligation)

2. "Testimony" – Exod. 16:34; 25:16 (i.e., the two tablets)

II. Purpose

A. They reveal the character of God

1. unique and authoritative

2. ethical, both towards society and the individual

B. They are for

1. all people because they reveal God's will for mankind and all humans were created in God's image.

2. covenant believers only because it is impossible to understand and obey without God's help

3. C. S. Lewis – inner moral sense, even among primitive tribes (Rom. 1:19-20; 2:14-15), is reflected here.

C. As all ancient law codes they were

1. to regulate and control interpersonal relationships

2. maintain stability of the society

D. They bound the heterogeneous group of slave and Egyptian outcasts into a community of faith and law. B. S. Childs, Old Testament Library, Exodus—"the eight negative aspects show the outer limits of the covenant boundary. There are no misdemeanors but to break the very fibre of which the divine-human relation consists. The two positive aspects show definition to the life within the covenant. The Decalogue looks both outward and inward; it guards against the way of death and points to the way of life" (p. 398).

III. Parallels

A. Biblical

1. The Ten Words are recorded twice, in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5. The slight difference in the 4th, 5th, and 10th commandments shows the adaptability of these general principles to different situations.

2. However, their uniformity points toward the precision with which they were transmitted.

3. They were probably read and reaffirmed periodically, as Joshua 24 shows.

B. Cultural

1. Other law codes from the Ancient Near East

a. Ur-Nammu (Sumerian, 2050 b.c.) from the city of Ur

b. Lipit-Ishtar (Sumerian, 1900 b.c.) from the city of Isin

c. Eshnunna (Akkadian, 1875 b.c.) from the city of Eshunna

d. Code of Hammurabi (Babylonian, 1690 b.c.) from Babylon but Stela were found in Susa

2. The form of the laws in Exodus 20:18-23:37 has much in common with other Ancient Near Eastern law codes. However, the Ten Words are in a unique form which implies their authority (2nd person commands—apodictic).

3. The most obvious cultural connection is with the Hittite Suzerainty Treaties of 1450-1200 b.c. Some good examples of this similarity can be seen in

a. The Ten Words

b. The book of Deuteronomy

c. Joshua 24

The elements of these treaties are

a. Identification of the King

b. Narration of his great acts

c. Covenant obligations

d. Instruction for depositing the treaty in the sanctuary for public reading

e. Deities of parties invoked as witnesses

f. Blessing for fidelity and curses for violations

4. Some good sources on this subject

a. George Mendenhall, Law and Covenant in Israel and the Ancient Near East

b. Dewey Beegle, Moses, The Servant of Yahweh

c. W. Bezalin, Origin and History

d. D. J. McCarthy, Treaty and Covenant

IV. Internal Structure

A. Alt, in his book, The Origins of Israelite Law, was the first to make the distinction between apodictic and casuistic.

1. Casuistic being that common form of ANE Law that contained a condition – "if" = "then"

2. Apodictic being that rare form that expresses a direct command, "Thou shall. . ." or "Thou shall not. . ."

3. Roland de Vaux in Ancient Israel: Social Institutions, vol. 1, p. 146, says that the casuistic is primarily used in the secular area and the apodictic in the sacred.

B. The Ten Words are primarily negative in their expression – 8 of 10. The form is second person singular. They are either meant to address the entire Covenant community, each individual member, or both!

C. The two tablets of stone (Exod. 24:12; 31:18) are often interpreted as relating to the vertical and horizontal aspects of the Ten Words. Man's relationship to YHWH is spelled out in four commands and man's relationship to other men in the other 6 commandments. However, in light of Hittite Suzerain treaties, they may be two copies of the entire list of commands.

D. The historical numbering of the Ten Words

1. It is obvious that we have ten regulations. However, the exact distinction is not given.

2. Modern Jews list Exod. 20:2 as the first commandment. In order to keep the number at ten they make Exod. 24:3-6 the second commandment.

3. The Roman Catholic and Lutheran churches, following Augustine, make Exod. 20:3-6 the first commandment and in order to keep the number at ten, divide verse 17 into two separate commands.

4. Reform churches, following Origen and the early Eastern and Western churches, assert that Exod. 20:3 is the first commandment. This was the ancient Jewish view represented by Philo and Josephus.

V. How are Christians to Relate to the Ten Words?

A. Jesus' high views of Scripture are recorded in the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5-7 and especially 5:17-48, which shows us the seriousness of the question. His sermon almost seems to be based on the Ten Words and their proper application.


B. Theories of relationship

1. For believers

a. Roy Honeycutt, These Ten Words

(1) "We never outgrow the Ten Commandments because we never outgrow God" (p. 7).

(2) "Because the Commandments are witnesses to God, however, there is a sense in which their relevance and the relevance of God are so intertwined as to be almost inseparable. Consequently, if God is so relevant for your life, the Commandments will also be deeply relevant for they are written of God's character and demands" (p. 8).

b. Personally, we must see these directives as issuing from a faith relation already established. To divorce them from faith and commitment to God is to destroy them. Therefore, for me, they are universal only in the sense that God wants all men to know Him. They are also related to the inner witness of God to His entire human creation. Paul expresses this in Romans 1:19-20; 2:14-15. In this sense the Commandments reflect a guiding light that has an indwelling relevance to all mankind.

2. For all men, in all societies, for all times

a. Elton Trueblood, Foundations for Reconstruction. "The thesis of this small book is that the recovery of the moral law, as represented by the Hebrew Decalogue, is one of the ways in which an antidote to potential decline can be found" (p. 6).
J.
 

BarneyFife

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No Sabbath COMMANDS in the New Covenant!
What kind of Sabbath command would be satisfactory?
Jesus would have had to had his disciples executed as the Law COMMANDED!
So, adultery is okay under the New Covenant, then?

John 8:3-11
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
 

BarneyFife

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SABBATH

This is from the Hebrew word (BDB 992, KB 1409) meaning "rest" or "cessation." It is connected to the seventh day of creation (see John H. Walton, The Lost World of Genesis One) where God ceased His labor after finishing initial creation and rested (cf. Gen. 2:1-3). God did not rest because He was tired, but because (1) creation was complete and good (cf. Gen. 1:31) and (2) to give mankind a regular pattern for worship and rest.

The usage as a day of worship starts with Gen. 2:2-3, where YHWH uses His rest as a pattern for animals (cf. Exod. 23:12) and mankind (humans need a regular schedule of work, rest, and worship).

The Sabbath begins like all the days of Genesis 1, at twilight; therefore, twilight on Friday to twilight on Saturday was the official time period. All the details of its observance are given in Exodus (especially chapters 16,20,31, and 35) and Leviticus (especially chapters 23-26). The first specialized use of this day by Israel was in Exod. 16:25-26 in the gathering of manna. It then becomes part of "the Ten Words" (cf. Exod. 20:8-11; Deut. 5:12-15). This is one example where the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20 are slightly different from the Ten Commandments in Deuteronomy 5. Deuteronomy is preparing Israel for the settled, agricultural life in Canaan.

The Pharisees had taken these regulations and, by their oral discussions, interpreted them (i.e., the Oral Traditions) to include many rules.

Jesus often performed miracles, knowingly violating their picky rules so as to enter into a theological dialogue with them (i.e., Matthew 12). It was not the Sabbath that Jesus rejected or belittled, but their self-righteous legalism and lack of love (cf. Mark 2:27-28).

The early church worshiped on both the Sabbath and the first day of the week (i.e., Sunday, resurrection day, cf. John 20:1,19; Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2).

The Synagogue addressed the growing Christian movement by demanding members to reject Jesus as the Messiah (i.e., The Eighteen Benedictions). At this point (i.e., a.d. 70) the Christians began to meet exclusively on Sunday.

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS (cf. Exod. 20:1-17; Deut. 5:6-21)

I. Terms

A. Literally "The Ten Words" (cf. Exod. 34:28; Deut. 4:13; 10:4).

B. Clement of Alexandria called it "The Decalogue" (Deka Logous) and this was followed by the early church fathers.

C. In the Bible it is also called:

1. "Covenant" (i.e., Hebrew berith, cf. Exod. 34:28; Deut. 4:13; 9:9;

a. from Akkadian, barah – to eat (i.e., a common meal)

b. from Akkadian, biritu – to bind or fetter (i.e., a bond between people)

c. from Akkadian, birit – between (i.e., arrangement between two parties)

d. baru – a taste (i.e., an obligation)

2. "Testimony" – Exod. 16:34; 25:16 (i.e., the two tablets)

II. Purpose

A. They reveal the character of God

1. unique and authoritative

2. ethical, both towards society and the individual

B. They are for

1. all people because they reveal God's will for mankind and all humans were created in God's image.

2. covenant believers only because it is impossible to understand and obey without God's help

3. C. S. Lewis – inner moral sense, even among primitive tribes (Rom. 1:19-20; 2:14-15), is reflected here.

C. As all ancient law codes they were

1. to regulate and control interpersonal relationships

2. maintain stability of the society

D. They bound the heterogeneous group of slave and Egyptian outcasts into a community of faith and law. B. S. Childs, Old Testament Library, Exodus—"the eight negative aspects show the outer limits of the covenant boundary. There are no misdemeanors but to break the very fibre of which the divine-human relation consists. The two positive aspects show definition to the life within the covenant. The Decalogue looks both outward and inward; it guards against the way of death and points to the way of life" (p. 398).

III. Parallels

A. Biblical

1. The Ten Words are recorded twice, in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5. The slight difference in the 4th, 5th, and 10th commandments shows the adaptability of these general principles to different situations.

2. However, their uniformity points toward the precision with which they were transmitted.

3. They were probably read and reaffirmed periodically, as Joshua 24 shows.

B. Cultural

1. Other law codes from the Ancient Near East

a. Ur-Nammu (Sumerian, 2050 b.c.) from the city of Ur

b. Lipit-Ishtar (Sumerian, 1900 b.c.) from the city of Isin

c. Eshnunna (Akkadian, 1875 b.c.) from the city of Eshunna

d. Code of Hammurabi (Babylonian, 1690 b.c.) from Babylon but Stela were found in Susa

2. The form of the laws in Exodus 20:18-23:37 has much in common with other Ancient Near Eastern law codes. However, the Ten Words are in a unique form which implies their authority (2nd person commands—apodictic).

3. The most obvious cultural connection is with the Hittite Suzerainty Treaties of 1450-1200 b.c. Some good examples of this similarity can be seen in

a. The Ten Words

b. The book of Deuteronomy

c. Joshua 24

The elements of these treaties are

a. Identification of the King

b. Narration of his great acts

c. Covenant obligations

d. Instruction for depositing the treaty in the sanctuary for public reading

e. Deities of parties invoked as witnesses

f. Blessing for fidelity and curses for violations

4. Some good sources on this subject

a. George Mendenhall, Law and Covenant in Israel and the Ancient Near East

b. Dewey Beegle, Moses, The Servant of Yahweh

c. W. Bezalin, Origin and History

d. D. J. McCarthy, Treaty and Covenant

IV. Internal Structure

A. Alt, in his book, The Origins of Israelite Law, was the first to make the distinction between apodictic and casuistic.

1. Casuistic being that common form of ANE Law that contained a condition – "if" = "then"

2. Apodictic being that rare form that expresses a direct command, "Thou shall. . ." or "Thou shall not. . ."

3. Roland de Vaux in Ancient Israel: Social Institutions, vol. 1, p. 146, says that the casuistic is primarily used in the secular area and the apodictic in the sacred.

B. The Ten Words are primarily negative in their expression – 8 of 10. The form is second person singular. They are either meant to address the entire Covenant community, each individual member, or both!

C. The two tablets of stone (Exod. 24:12; 31:18) are often interpreted as relating to the vertical and horizontal aspects of the Ten Words. Man's relationship to YHWH is spelled out in four commands and man's relationship to other men in the other 6 commandments. However, in light of Hittite Suzerain treaties, they may be two copies of the entire list of commands.

D. The historical numbering of the Ten Words

1. It is obvious that we have ten regulations. However, the exact distinction is not given.

2. Modern Jews list Exod. 20:2 as the first commandment. In order to keep the number at ten they make Exod. 24:3-6 the second commandment.

3. The Roman Catholic and Lutheran churches, following Augustine, make Exod. 20:3-6 the first commandment and in order to keep the number at ten, divide verse 17 into two separate commands.

4. Reform churches, following Origen and the early Eastern and Western churches, assert that Exod. 20:3 is the first commandment. This was the ancient Jewish view represented by Philo and Josephus.

V. How are Christians to Relate to the Ten Words?

A. Jesus' high views of Scripture are recorded in the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5-7 and especially 5:17-48, which shows us the seriousness of the question. His sermon almost seems to be based on the Ten Words and their proper application.


B. Theories of relationship

1. For believers

a. Roy Honeycutt, These Ten Words

(1) "We never outgrow the Ten Commandments because we never outgrow God" (p. 7).

(2) "Because the Commandments are witnesses to God, however, there is a sense in which their relevance and the relevance of God are so intertwined as to be almost inseparable. Consequently, if God is so relevant for your life, the Commandments will also be deeply relevant for they are written of God's character and demands" (p. 8).

b. Personally, we must see these directives as issuing from a faith relation already established. To divorce them from faith and commitment to God is to destroy them. Therefore, for me, they are universal only in the sense that God wants all men to know Him. They are also related to the inner witness of God to His entire human creation. Paul expresses this in Romans 1:19-20; 2:14-15. In this sense the Commandments reflect a guiding light that has an indwelling relevance to all mankind.

2. For all men, in all societies, for all times

a. Elton Trueblood, Foundations for Reconstruction. "The thesis of this small book is that the recovery of the moral law, as represented by the Hebrew Decalogue, is one of the ways in which an antidote to potential decline can be found" (p. 6).
J.
Brother J, I want to -like- this but it's too long for my poor, tired old head to read. :eek:

I will say that, as a matter of policy, Jesus was very careful not to enter into controversy unnecessarily. He even told one of His healed to "tell no man."

He had to save all the intense publicity for the end of His public ministry so as not to prematurely cut short His work.
 
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David in NJ

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That's a great question... Wouldn't an archeologist love to find the ark? I am sure you realize though that those stone tablets, even the ones Moses broke, weren't the original commandments.

KJV Hebrews 8:3-5
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount...
KJV Hebrews 9:23-24
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

KJV Revelation 15:5
5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened
:

Moses made the earthly sanctuary, "according to the fashion that he had seen." Paul declares that "the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry," when completed, were "the patterns of things in the heavens." Acts 7:44; Hebrews 9:21,23.
And John says that he saw the sanctuary in heaven. That sanctuary, in which Jesus ministers in our behalf, is the great original, of which the sanctuary built by Moses was a copy.

The ark of the covenant/testimony acted as a type for the throne of God, the mercy seat between the cherubim being where the shekinah glory and the presence of God met with Moses. That the Ten Commandments were placed under the mercy seat within the ark...antitypically the throne of God, tells me of the importance and sacredness of His law. Such importance was not placed upon those statutes which God gave to Moses which Moses wrote in a 'book' and was subsequently placed at the side of the ark...thus a marked difference is demonstrated between the law of God and what is called the law of Moses.
It was transgression against God's commandments which necessitated the death of Christ as atonement. That death was foreshadowed by the sacrifices and priesthood, and the services of the sanctuary with it's associated feast days, all meeting their fulfillment at Calvary. This, for the Jew, was the gospel, and the remedy for transgression against God's law.
However. The weekly Sabbath was never a remedy for transgression, although in later times it acted as a sign of God's redemptive power. It was never a shadow or type, nor was it established as such. It was established, like marriage, before sin entered into the world, therefore could not act as an instrument foreshadowing Christ's sacrifice and atonement.
Man, in taking upon himself the authority to change anything designated and treated by God as sacred and holy, (like displacing God's holy day with a common day never so designated, is mixing the sacred with the profane) and is stepping over a line and for Protestants in particular who claim scripture as the basis for doctrine and practise, is especially egregious and indefensible.

The Sabbath is a day sanctified, set apart and hallowed, for the purpose of relationship. A day for man to leave his common work and his labor, to spend time serving his fellow man, fellowshipping with those in need and his brothers and sisters in Christ, and worshipping in community as a testimony and witness to God's redemptive and creative power and authority.

"Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy...'

"The Sabbath was made for man..."

"Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you".
A couple of things here.

i asked where the tablets of stone were because, as you pointed out in Hebrews,
a.) they are no longer necessary since they were only a shadow of the PERFECT ONE

which leads us to
b.) God had Moses place the stone tablets(10 commandments) inside the Ark, underneath the Mercy Seat = hidden from view

i strongly encourage you go back now and read and pray why that is
HINT: i have been posting the answer in this thread's dialogue

=========================================================================================

IMPORTANT - IMPORTANT - IMPORTANT

You said: "However. The weekly Sabbath was never a remedy for transgression, although in later times it acted as a sign of God's redemptive power. It was never a shadow or type, nor was it established as such. It was established, like marriage, before sin entered into the world, therefore could not act as an instrument foreshadowing Christ's sacrifice and atonement."

Love for you my Brother = Your statement is antichrist and is CONTRARY to the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE

This is your most IMPORTANT moment right now to understand how Genesis speaks of Christ from the very first chapter and forward.

ESPECIALLY TWO THINGS = #1 the 7th DAY/God's Rest and #2 Marriage

Peace to you Brakelite
 
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L.A.M.B.

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IMO, I think few have any real grievance against the 10 Commandments. The biggest fracture comes on the term "Sabbath" worship.

If we can but keep the three commands Jesus repeated, to love God, love our neighbor and love one another in Christ.Then as he said all the law and the prophets hang on these.

Does this then mean we are to nullify the day of rest, no but I see everyday as a day of rest in worshipping God.

Paul wrote to remember the weak among you that one honours a certain day above another or not eating meat ect.,this he says as to not offend those of a certain persuasion.

What I find offensive is the continual disparaging of one another's beliefs!
In the court of law of the land I would see it as a case of " he said, she said" and dismiss both cases.

Are we not led by the Spirit enough to know what God wants from each of us as individuals?

I say if God says don't, then you don't, but not based on a contention of denominal doctrine, same as with water baptism.

Let us be hearers and doers of the word by the leading of the Spirit !
 
J

Johann

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Brother J, I want to -like- this but it's too long for my poor, tired old head to read. :eek:
Why don't you read it brother-I just woke up-and I was under the impression we can learn from each other without resorting to the decimation of others characters.
I will say that, as a matter of policy, Jesus was very careful not to enter into controversy unnecessarily. He even told one of His healed to "tell no man."
The Sabbath/-s and the Ten Words is very controversial-far as I can tell-hence my post, not that I want to sound "Oh so scholarly" Barn'
Personally, I thought Utley gave a very biblical answer.
J.
 
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J

Johann

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IMO, I think few have any real grievance against the 10 Commandments. The biggest fracture comes on the term "Sabbath" worship.

If we can but keep the three commands Jesus repeated, to love God, love our neighbor and love one another in Christ.Then as he said all the law and the prophets hang on these.

Does this then mean we are to nullify the day of rest, no but I see everyday as a day of rest in worshipping God.

Paul wrote to remember the weak among you that one honours a certain day above another or not eating meat ect.,this he says as to not offend those of a certain persuasion.

What I find offensive is the continual disparaging of one another's beliefs!
In the court of law of the land I would see it as a case of " he said, she said" and dismiss both cases.

Are we not led by the Spirit enough to know what God wants from each of us as individuals?

I say if God says don't, then you don't, but not based on a contention of denominal doctrine, same as with water baptism.

Let us be hearers and doers of the word by the leading of the Spirit !
One 100% in agreement here.
J.
 

amigo de christo

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And yet Jesus was with His disciples who were working on the Sabbath.
Jesus exposed their hyprocrisy . Never was it written ye cannot do good on the sabbath .
Even the jews had to circumcize a male child on the sabbath , IF the eight day of that child fell on the sabbath .
And YET , when JESUS healed on the sabbath they were accusing him .
But if a man can be circumsized on the sabbath how much more to be made WHOLE on the sabbath .
My Father worketh and i work hitherto . Many were hypocritical .
Healing and doing good is not evil , anymore than circumsizing a man on the sabbath was .
And now for the largest reminder of all about something not many may understand .
COME YE UNTO ME , all ye who do LABOR and are weary and YE SHALL FIND REST for your SOULS .
The sabbath had been created so as a man could have rest
his beast , his servant could have rest . YET these words keep ringing in my ears .
COME YE UNTO ME all you who do LABOR and are weary and you shall find REST for your souls .
Labor ye to enter into THAT REST . OH I KNOW FULL WELL what paul was talkingabout .
ITS JESUS THE GLORIOUS CHRIST .
The sabbath was a shadow of what was to come and will come again too .
COME YE unto ME all ye who do labor and are weary and YE shall find REST for your souls .
THAT BE THE CALL . And folks had better make sure it is the biblical JESUS they do follow and love .
 

amigo de christo

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IMO, I think few have any real grievance against the 10 Commandments. The biggest fracture comes on the term "Sabbath" worship.

If we can but keep the three commands Jesus repeated, to love God, love our neighbor and love one another in Christ.Then as he said all the law and the prophets hang on these.

Does this then mean we are to nullify the day of rest, no but I see everyday as a day of rest in worshipping God.

Paul wrote to remember the weak among you that one honours a certain day above another or not eating meat ect.,this he says as to not offend those of a certain persuasion.

What I find offensive is the continual disparaging of one another's beliefs!
In the court of law of the land I would see it as a case of " he said, she said" and dismiss both cases.

Are we not led by the Spirit enough to know what God wants from each of us as individuals?

I say if God says don't, then you don't, but not based on a contention of denominal doctrine, same as with water baptism.

Let us be hearers and doers of the word by the leading of the Spirit !
Let no man judge you in meat , drink , holy days , sabbath days .
now as far as actual SIN , that does get corrected
but as far as meat , drink , holy days , new moons , sabbath days
that is not to be judged of men . Rather let each do as they are led to do .
But again when it comes to sins of that flesh , those do get corrected within the church .
You raise those hands lamb . ITS LORD praising time .
 

amigo de christo

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One 100% in agreement here.
J.
One can hear the beauty of these words and it brings great peace unto the soul of the hearer and the doer .
COME YE UNTO ME all you who do labor and are weary and you will find REST for your souls .
Yet many have rejected that call . And by some other way , some false path , some false love
refuse to ENTER INTO THE VERY LOVE OF GOD , CHRIST JESUS THE KING .
The CHRIST of GOD is getting replaced by a love that cometh not OF GOD
but rather from he who desires to be as GOD and gets the worship of man through THE LUSTS OF THE FLESH
in all rebellion to GOD and to HIS CHRIST .
But as for us , the lambs , ITS JESUS THE GLORIOUS CHRIST we shall cling too . HIS EVERY WORD
shall be our meat and the SPIRIT our guide . Now lift those hands johann .
Cause as you well know , ITS LORD PRAISING N THANKING TIME again .
 
J

Johann

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One can hear the beauty of these words and it brings great peace unto the soul of the hearer and the doer .
COME YE UNTO ME all you who do labor and are weary and you will find REST for your souls .
Yet many have rejected that call . And by some other way , some false path , some false love
refuse to ENTER INTO THE VERY LOVE OF GOD , CHRIST JESUS THE KING .
The CHRIST of GOD is getting replaced by a love that cometh not OF GOD
but rather from he who desires to be as GOD and gets the worship of man through THE LUSTS OF THE FLESH
in all rebellion to GOD and to HIS CHRIST .
But as for us , the lambs , ITS JESUS THE GLORIOUS CHRIST we shall cling too . HIS EVERY WORD
shall be our meat and the SPIRIT our guide . Now lift those hands johann .
Cause as you well know , ITS LORD PRAISING N THANKING TIME again .
Amen brother-this is what I'm listening to at the moment.
J.
 
J

Johann

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Let no man judge you in meat , drink , holy days , sabbath days .
NASB (UPDATED) TEXT: COLOSSIANS 2:16-19
16Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day- 17things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. 18Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

2:16-23 Verses 16-23 are the strongest condemnations of religious legalism in Paul's writings.

When Paul was dealing with "weak" believers he was gentle (cf. Rom. 14:1-15:13; 1 Cor. 8-10),-- but when he was addressing religious self-righteous legalists (i.e., false teachers) he was uncompromising. This self-righteousness was what brought such condemnation from Jesus on the Pharisees and Scribes. Paul knew well performance-oriented religion. His encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus (cf. Acts 9) changed everything!

There were two types of Gnostic false teachers: (1) salvation is through secret knowledge and, therefore, it does not matter how you live (antinomian libertines) and (2) salvation through secret knowledge plus a very restricted lifestyle (legalists).


2:16

NASB"let no one act as your judge"
NKJV"let no one judge you"
NRSV"do not let anyone condemn you"
TEV"let no one make rules"
NJB"never let anyone criticize you"

This is a present imperative with the negative particle, which meant to stop an act already in process. This referred to (1) matters of food (cf. 1 Tim. 4:3); (2) special days (cf. Rom. 14:5; Gal. 4:10); or (3) the worship of these angelic levels (cf. Col. 2:8,20). There is an obvious parallel between Col. 2:16 ("act as your judge") and Col. 2:18 (act as "umpire"). Be careful of religious legalism whether Jewish, Greek, or modern.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


JUDGMENT IN THE NT

Judgment is certain (cf. Matt. 12:36; Heb. 9:27; 10:27; 2 Pet. 2:4,9; 3:7).

A. The one who judges is

1. God (cf. Rom. 2:2-3; 14:10,12; 1 Pet. 1:17; 2:23; Rev. 20:11-15)

2. Christ (cf. John 9:39; Matt. 16:27; 25:31-46; Acts 10:42; 17:31; 2 Cor. 5:10; 2 Tim. 4:1)

3. the Father through the Son (cf. John 5:22-27; Acts 17:31; Rom. 2:16)

Judgment is an unpleasant subject, but a recurrent theme in the Bible. It is based on several bedrock biblical truths.

1. This is a moral universe created by an ethical God (we reap what we sow, cf. Gal. 6:7).

2. Humanity is fallen; we have rebelled.

3. This is not the world God intended it to be.

4. All conscious creations (angels and humans) will give an accounting to their Creator for the gift of life. We are stewards.

5. Eternity will be permanently determined by our actions and choices made in this life.
B. Should Christians judge one another? This issue must be dealt with in two ways.

1. believers are admonished not to judge one another (cf. Matt. 7:1-5; Luke 6:37,42; Rom. 2:1-11; James 4:11-12)

2. believers are admonished to evaluate leaders (cf. Matt. 7:6,15-16; 1 Cor. 14:29; 1 Thess. 5:21; 1 Tim. 3:1-13; and 1 John 4:1-6)

Some criteria for proper evaluation may be helpful.

1. evaluation should be for the purpose of affirmation (cf. 1 John 4:1 – "test" with a view toward approval;

2. evaluation should be done in humility and gentleness (cf. Gal. 6:1)


3. evaluation must not focus on personal preference issues (cf. Rom. 14:1-23; 1 Cor. 8:1-13; 10:23-33)

4. evaluation should identify those leaders who have "no handle for criticism" from within the church or the community (cf. 1 Timothy 3).

Shalom brother.
J.
 
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