The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[mailmandan]

Could you explain what it means for the ten commandments to be the ministry of death? Perhaps you could give examples of other passages of Scripture that describe how the ten commandments minister death to us?

Short answer: Paul called it a ministry of death/condemnation because all who looked upon the holy demands were condemned as law breakers.

 

[JesusFan1]

How is it possible for someone to impose something on another as a condition of salvation? I hear this all the time and it makes absolutely no sense to me.

Ellen White imposed that as a salvation requirement to all of her sda!

 

[BarneyFife]

Ellen White imposed that as a salvation requirement to all of her sda!

It is impossible for someone to impose something on another as a condition of salvation. Impossible. Suggest, maybe--impose, never.

 

[BarneyFife]

Short answer: Paul called it a ministry of death/condemnation because all who looked upon the holy demands were condemned as law breakers.

I'm afraid a short answer with no Scripture evidence isn't going to clarify much for me, personally. What kind of death is it, exactly, that the ten commandments ministers to me?

 

[Brakelite]

Sadly, some people refuse to accept that the 10 commandments
were a ministry of death and not a ministry of righteousness.

It was only a ministry of death to those disobeyed them. And it was a ministry of death even to Jesus who took upon Himself our sin, yet He was resurrected because He was personally guiltless. If we are forgiven those sins of the past, and do not offend in the future, them the law has now power to condemn. In fact, the law for the new creature becomes a set of promises if you have faith... You shall not steal... You shall not commit adultery... You shall not covet etc etc. If you have faith, those same ten commandments that condemn the sinner, becomes the creating word of power in the new life. Just as Jesus spoke the world into existence at creation, let there be light etc... So even the 4th commandment speaks into existence righteousness by faith... Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.

 

[mailmandan]

I'm afraid a short answer with no Scripture evidence isn't going to clarify much for me, personally. What kind of death is it, exactly, that the ten commandments ministers to me?

What part of “ministry that brought death” which was engraved in letters on stone (verse 9 - ministry that brought condemnation) don’t you understand?

2 Corinthians 3:6-9 is scripture evidence. Also see Romans chapter 7, James 2:10 and Galatians 3:10.

 

[BarneyFife]

What part of “ministry that brought death” which was engraved in letters on stone (verse 9 - ministry that brought condemnation) don’t you understand?

Well, I've already stated that I don't understand what kind of death the ten commandments minister to us and how exactly they do that to us. I certainly didn't mean to try your patience. I must say, however, that if you're going to use Romans 7 as support for the typical antinomian interpretation of 2 Corinthians 3, then verses 12 & 13 might give you a little trouble unless, of course, you're content to disregard them altogether. :)

 

[mailmandan]

Well, I've already stated that I don't understand what kind of death the ten commandments minister to us and how exactly they do that to us. I certainly didn't mean to try your patience. I must say, however, that if you're going to use Romans 7 as support for the typical antinomian interpretation of 2 Corinthians 3, then verses 12 & 13 might give you a little trouble unless, of course, you're content to disregard them altogether. :)

Not sure why you are having such a difficult time grasping this.

 

[mailmandan]

It was only a ministry of death to those disobeyed them..

You are on the right track here. Now tell me who was the only person in history that obeyed them flawlessly?

 

[Brakelite]

You are on the right track here. Now tell me who was the only person in history that obeyed them flawlessly?

Jesus. But give me one reason why man, filled and led by the spirit of God, cannot do the same?

 

[BarneyFife]

Not sure why you are having such a difficult time grasping this.

It might help if you addressed my distinct points that you just quoted. :)

 

[mailmandan]

Jesus. But give me one reason why man, filled and led by the spirit of God, cannot do the same?

Do you claim to obey all of God’s commandments flawlessly, 100% of the time? Do you promote sinless perfection? (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[mailmandan]

It might help if you addressed my distinct points that you just quoted. :)

You could not seem to grasp what I originally addressed so I doubt it would help.

 

[mailmandan]

Only if the one abstaining thinks he is made righteous in God's sight (justified) by his obedient abstention.

He was justified (made righteous in God's sight) by his faith, not his obedience. His obedience only justified him in regard to showing him to already be righteous in God's sight.

No, that is not my theology.
My theology is he would have been condemned if he was obedient in order to make himself righteous in God's sight instead of his obedience showing himself to already be righteous through his faith.

Amen and well said! :)

 

[Brakelite]

Do you claim to obey all of God’s commandments flawlessly, 100% of the time? Do you promote sinless perfection? (1 John 1:8-10)

KJV Romans 8:29-30
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

So you didn't answer my question. Read the above scripture carefully, and then answer...

Jesus. But give me one reason why man, filled and led by the spirit of God, cannot do the same?

... And live a sinless life?
Maybe this might help you to see things clearly...
KJV 2 Peter 1:4-10
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

 

[mailmandan]

KJV Romans 8:29-30
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

So you didn't answer my question. Read the above scripture carefully, and then answer...
... And live a sinless life?
Maybe this might help you to see things clearly...
KJV 2 Peter 1:4-10
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

You did not answer my two questions so I will ask them again.

Do you claim to obey all of God’s commandments flawlessly, 100% of the time? Do you promote sinless perfection?

YES or NO

I’ll be waiting…

 

[Brakelite]

KJV Hebrews 11:7
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

He was justified (made righteous in God's sight) by his faith, not his obedience. His obedience only justified him in regard to showing him to already be righteous in God's sight.

Faith in what? What was it Noah was believing? Was it not God's word? He believed God, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that there would be a flood. As a result, he demonstrated that faith by building the ark.

My theology is he would have been condemned if he was obedient in order to make himself righteous in God's sight instead of his obedience showing himself to already be righteous through his faith.

Every single individual listed for their faith in Hebrews 11 demonstrated their faith through action. Every one. A Seventh Day Adventist demonstrates his faith in the word of God, and in His divine authority, by acting on that faith by observing the Sabbath. You do the work of Satan in twisting and casting doubt upon our motives for observing the Sabbath, and intimating, nay, more than intimating, but rather generalizing and accusing all adventists of observing the Sabbath in order to gain brownie points with God. I thought you were better than that.

 

[Brakelite]

You did not answer my two questions so I will ask them again.

Do you claim to obey all of God’s commandments flawlessly, 100% of the time? Do you promote sinless perfection?

YES or NO

I’ll be waiting…

Your question was in response to mine. My question was a simple one.
Do you think it is possible???? to live without sin???
Whether I am personally accomplishing that is irrelevant. We are discussing theology, not my performance.

 

[mailmandan]

Your question was in response to mine. My question was a simple one.
Do you think it is possible???? to live without sin???
Whether I am personally accomplishing that is irrelevant. We are discussing theology, not my performance.

I see that you refuse to answer my two questions. Feeling convicted? Only Jesus Christ lived flawlessly, without sin.

 

[BarneyFife]

You could not seem to grasp what I originally addressed so I doubt it would help.

Either you believe that verses 12 & 13 of Romans 7 support your interpretation of 2 Corinthians 3 or you don't. It's really quite simple. :)