Testing the Spirits

[JesusIsFaithful]

Notice the focus on the Holy Spirit in receiving more infusion, more dramatic manifestations, and the power of the Holy Spirit for the ministry.

By seeking to have another drink of the One Spirit, that is why they are falling down, because they are drinking from another fountain.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

They say they are not doing it for confusion in the church, but seeing this, how is it not confusion with all of those people falling down?

So there is no seeking to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation when we are Spirit-filled since our salvation by coming to & believing in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel.

Our focus in worship should only be on the Son; and not after the rudiments in the world in how they receive spirits by seeing it after a sign like mediums do.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me....16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Watch this video and discern with Him at that throne of grace.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Watch this video and discern with Him at that throne of grace.

Confused. The video has the speaker as: Paul Washer. Do you know him? Ever listened to any of his sermons? Maybe his words have been taken out of context? Never saw him as one drunk on another spirit...

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Confused. The video has the speaker as: Paul Washer. Do you know him? Ever listened to any of his sermons? Maybe his words have been taken out of context? Never saw him as one drunk on another spirit...

Thank you for sharing. If the first video in the OP was indeed Paul Washer, then it goes to show why we should prove everything by Him by the scripture. It does sound like him, but I am hard of hearing, and so I cannot confirm your whether or not the audio is Paul Washer. If you know that it is for sure Paul Washer, then his words are of error because for His disciples to seek a manifestation like that in falling over to get that infusion or filling in order to have power to bear witness in the outreach minstry, then by the time they get up to speak, their audience would be gone. They wuld keep on walking.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

And if any one coming off teh streets saw the believers falling down the way they were, how can they not deem the whole church as "crazy" too?

Someone once said that a cult is someone that says nine truths and says one lie. To me, when any one puts the focus on anything else rather than the Son, then they are no longer being a disciples of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, in testifying of Him in seeking His glory, but the glory of another.

The would be akin to what antichrist means; "instead of Christ" as in "instead of the Son" since Jesus is the Christ. Denying Him in this way is evil itself as His words does declare this to be a judgment over every saved believer in the the only way to honor the Father by; by only honoring the Son.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.14 He shall glorify me:

To act as if they do not have power of the Holy Spirit to minister is to deny what was given at their salvation and thus departing from faith in Jesus Christ.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

A lot of believer will refer to the Book of Acts to verses pulled out of context to prove that His disciples were filled with the Holy Ghost before they spoke, but no way is what happening in the video happened in the Book of Acts because as I said, they'd be walking on by.

Luke's purpose for mentioning in Acts for when any of His disciples were "filled" with the Spirit was to signify by how they were speaking or doing rather than leaving readers to wonder if it was something of their own volition and will power to testify that they were led by the Spirit in speaking and in doing the things they were doing.

Nowhere in the N.T. does it teach a believer that they need to seek a continual filling of the Spirit and for churches to have catchers. They misapply Ephesians 5:18 when be filled with the Spirit was opposing being drunk with wine wherein there is excess. That is to mean remain sober as in self control which the fruit of the Spirit is temperance.

In no other scripture is the call to be sober requires an infusion of the Holy Spirit. Believers can only get drunk when they drink wine in excess.

Thanks again for sharing the video and your comments.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Thank you for sharing. If the first video in the OP was indeed Paul Washer, then it goes to show why we should prove everything by Him by the scripture. It does sound like him, but I am hard of hearing, and so I cannot confirm your whether or not the audio is Paul Washer. If you know that it is for sure Paul Washer, then his words are of error because for His disciples to seek a manifestation like that in falling over to get that infusion or filling in order to have power to bear witness in the outreach minstry, then by the time they get up to speak, their audience would be gone. They wuld keep on walking.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

And if any one coming off teh streets saw the believers falling down the way they were, how can they not deem the whole church as "crazy" too?

Someone once said that a cult is someone that says nine truths and says one lie. To me, when any one puts the focus on anything else rather than the Son, then they are no longer being a disciples of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, in testifying of Him in seeking His glory, but the glory of another.

The would be akin to what antichrist means; "instead of Christ" as in "instead of the Son" since Jesus is the Christ. Denying Him in this way is evil itself as His words does declare this to be a judgment over every saved believer in the the only way to honor the Father by; by only honoring the Son.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.14 He shall glorify me:

To act as if they do not have power of the Holy Spirit to minister is to deny what was given at their salvation and thus departing from faith in Jesus Christ.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

A lot of believer will refer to the Book of Acts to verses pulled out of context to prove that His disciples were filled with the Holy Ghost before they spoke, but no way is what happening in the video happened in the Book of Acts because as I said, they'd be walking on by.

Luke's purpose for mentioning in Acts for when any of His disciples were "filled" with the Spirit was to signify by how they were speaking or doing rather than leaving readers to wonder if it was something of their own volition and will power to testify that they were led by the Spirit in speaking and in doing the things they were doing.

Nowhere in the N.T. does it teach a believer that they need to seek a continual filling of the Spirit and for churches to have catchers. They misapply Ephesians 5:18 when be filled with the Spirit was opposing being drunk with wine wherein there is excess. That is to mean remain sober as in self control which the fruit of the Spirit is temperance.

In no other scripture is the call to be sober requires an infusion of the Holy Spirit. Believers can only get drunk when they drink wine in excess.

Thanks again for sharing the video and your comments.

While I would agree falling down and jerking is not from the Holy Spirit. It also needs to be mentioned that to be right 9 times out of 10, seems to be hopeful. No man(including women) are a hundred percent right since we are all learning and growing daily. You may point out the Word is a hundred percent right...yes. But man's(including women) interpretations are not.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

While I would agree falling down and jerking is not from the Holy Spirit. It also needs to be mentioned that to be right 9 times out of 10, seems to be hopeful. No man(including women) are a hundred percent right since we are all learning and growing daily. You may point out the Word is a hundred percent right...yes. But man's(including women) interpretations are not.

In any saved believer's walk with the Lord, we are growing with Him in our walk with Him, but you have to be discerning with Him especially in areas where they are refusing correction by and thus continuing in that error for why in that example, you are not to follow because he is not following Him in that regard.

Jesus cites a good tree will not produce an evil fruit and an evil fruit cannot produce a good fruit. If that tree of "seeking to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation by a sign" is producing the evil fruit of falling down, then it is not a good tree regardless of failing to see the fruit you may be seeing as a good fruit coming from that same tree. The tree which you see as giving you a good fruit but yet produces the evil fruit that you can see and know it is not of Him, then you need to pray normally for help at that throne of grace to see that what you think is good cannot be good when gained by receiving what you believed was the Holy Spirit apart from salvation which is that same tree that you see as producing an evil fruit of believers falling in confusion.

Thank you for sharing, sister. I know that the "second blessing" is a real and powerful phenomenon and it is impressionable and personal to have, but we are called to not believe every spirit but test them as there are seducing spirits out there that can tempt us to go astray and cause others to chase after them too in receiving after a sign.

Can a modern day tongue speaker reprove those who fall down and experience confusion saying that is not being of the Lord when it was gained by the same manner that those who seek a baptism with the Holy Ghost after a sign of tongues apart from salvation which never comes with interpretation?

And if you pay attention, some believers will go beyond that second blessing they had experienced like some of our fellow forum members are saying in not so many words that there is still a continuous receiving of the Holy Spirit. Not sure if he is condoning the falling down part or not, I cannot recall, but if he does condone it or sees nothing wrong with it, then how can any one that use tongues privately correct him in exposing that as a work of darkness?

What usually happens is that they leave those who go beyond the second blessing alone for the simple reason that I cannot see how they can.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Notice the focus on the Holy Spirit in receiving more infusion, more dramatic manifestations, and the power of the Holy Spirit for the ministry.

By seeking to have another drink of the One Spirit, that is why they are falling down, because they are drinking from another fountain.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

They say they are not doing it for confusion in the church, but seeing this, how is it not confusion with all of those people falling down?

So there is no seeking to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation when we are Spirit-filled since our salvation by coming to & believing in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel.

Our focus in worship should only be on the Son; and not after the rudiments in the world in how they receive spirits by seeing it after a sign like mediums do.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me....16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Watch this video and discern with Him at that throne of grace.

To contribute to your topic though. My husband and I traveled from church to church to find a home. We tested spirits as you say. Once we were locked inside a church and every one, on command started speaking in tongues (or what they called tongues). When we wouldn't participate, we were told we had to. Never visited there again. Another church...the pastor slapped a man pleading for help in the forehead and the man fell back in a trance. He laid on the floor jerking and seeming unconscious. The pastor told the congregation that God was operating on him and healing the man on God's operating table right before our eyes. Hopefully others will see how ridiculous and of the flesh "the show" is. We all want to feel something... To feel alive. This is a delusion though and presents itself as life...but in the end it is accepting a lie.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

To contribute to your topic though. My husband and I traveled from church to church to find a home. We tested spirits as you say. Once we were locked inside a church and every one, on command started speaking in tongues (or what they called tongues). When we wouldn't participate, we were told we had to. Never visited there again. Another church...the pastor slapped a man pleading for help in the forehead and the man fell back in a trance. He laid on the floor jerking and seeming unconscious. The pastor told the congregation that God was operating on him and healing the man on God's operating table right before our eyes. Hopefully others will see how ridiculous and of the flesh "the show" is. We all want to feel something... To feel alive. This is a delusion though and presents itself as life...but in the end it is accepting a lie.

Thank you for sharing.

I was not always on guard against deception or false spirits or the carnal influence of the church or of the media or my peers or the world I live in, but Jesus Christ as my Good Shepherd led me away from them all eventually as I trust Him to keep me from them too as my Friend.

Which is why I would wonder if there was anything more I need to be delivered from, but I trust Him as my Good Shepherd to expose the works of darkness so I can lean on Him for help to depart from iniquity in being ready for the Bridegroom when He comes as well as being willing to go.

 

[Enoch111]

By seeking to have another drink of the One Spirit, that is why they are falling down, because they are drinking from another fountain.

If you are referring to being "slain in the Spirit" and falling backwards, then we should know that that is NOT something from the Holy Spirit but from another spirit. There is absolutely nothing in Scripture to support this phenomenon.

So there is no seeking to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation when we are Spirit-filled since our salvation by coming to & believing in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel.

Salvation includes the gift of the Holy Spirit and there should be no need to seek the Spirit after that. Believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit after they have been born of the Spirit.

However being "Spirit-filled" means to be completely under the control and influence of the Holy Spirit, which translates into walking in the Spirit and mortifying the flesh. But for Pentecostals and Charismatics, it has a different meaning.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

If you are referring to being "slain in the Spirit" and falling backwards, then we should know that that is NOT something from the Holy Spirit but from another spirit. There is absolutely nothing in Scripture to support this phenomenon.

Yet there are scripture to reprove the phenomenon as not of Him at all but drinking from another fountain.

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Salvation includes the gift of the Holy Spirit and there should be no need to seek the Spirit after that. Believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit after they have been born of the Spirit.

To be clearer in keeping with the meaning of your quote.. "Believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit EVER SINCE they have been born of the Spirit.

However being "Spirit-filled" means to be completely under the control and influence of the Holy Spirit, which translates into walking in the Spirit and mortifying the flesh.

I agree as our confidence is in Jesus Christ to finish His work in us Philippians 1:6 as all the fruits of righteousness are from Jesus Christ Philippians 1:11

But for Pentecostals and Charismatics, it has a different meaning.

Which is considered giving another calling to receive another spirit apart from salvation from the original calling of the gospel and thus preaching another gospel.

Such a calling has been started from the early developments that formed the Catholic Church in what it is today.

The fact that there is a Catholic Charismatic Church should alarm the Pentecostals and Charismatics, especially since some do believe Catholics are going to hell. ( I don't think any one said that in here probably because the rules of the forum does not allow this, if I recall correctly. ) It is to that, I point out to them that as real as that phenomenon is in the Catholic Charismatic Church, why hasn't the Lord reproved them from the dead works in catholicism.

Maybe then they will see that it is not the Holy Spirit aka the Spirit of Truth but the spirits of the antichrist aka the spirit of error in putting on a good show with their visitations.

 

[amadeus]

@JesusIsFaithful

I only plan to do this one time so you may realize that the answer you have is not the only answer a person can find in the scriptures. Is mine right and yours wrong? I am not saying that although of course I believe it even as you believe that you are right. That is the nature of the beast in man, is it not? Read up on what Solomon and others write about beasts.

Yet there are scripture to reprove the phenomenon as not of Him at all but drinking from another fountain.

There is scripture used by some to refute many things on every side of every issue taken by any man who calls himself a Christian or to confirm many wrongs or to mislead people. Probably every large church group opposed to your beliefs in any way could and would be able to refute your position also by scripture. As the Catholics might ask, who is to decide who is right? You? Me?

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

But what is the wicked? What is the corrupt spring? You presume that you know, but others will presume that you are in error? What does God think about it? Bouncing scriptures back and forth alone will not resolve the matter. This one reason there are so many radically opposed doctrines based on the very same verses of scripture depending upon which group’s theologians you want to hear.


As to ruling over one’s own spirit, who does? Only God can but even He cannot if not allowed entrance by someone’s absolutely held doctrines. Kind of sounds a bit like the Pharisees of old fighting against their own Messiah prophesied for centuries.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Who determines what is “good”

“Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!” Isaiah 5:20-21

And to whom does a thing appear to be evil? A glass of whiskey may not appear evil to the alcoholic, but is it not likely to the most evil of things to him?

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

And exactly what is it that is confusion in the eyes of God? Is it not anyone going in his own ways instead of simply surrendering to Him and then following as He leads? Are you God? Are you the Holy Spirit?

Are you not one of His sheep that hear His voice?

“And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.” John 10:4-5

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

And does the baby only take one drink of his mother’s milk then without another look back nor another taste he is of a sudden full grown and completely knowing?

Only One Spirit, but it may take more that a single taste to get us to the end of the road with Him. Consider even the very touch of Jesus here:

“And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.

And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.

After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.” Mark 8:23-25

It looks like not less than two touches there from the hands of the Master himself in order to see clearly. As Paul puts it:

“For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.” I Cor 13:12

Salvation includes the gift of the Holy Spirit and there should be no need to seek the Spirit after that. Believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit after they have been born of the Spirit.

To be clearer in keeping with the meaning of your quote.. "Believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit EVER SINCE they have been born of the Spirit.

However being "Spirit-filled" means to be completely under the control and influence of the Holy Spirit, which translates into walking in the Spirit and mortifying the flesh.

I agree as our confidence is in Jesus Christ to finish His work in us Philippians 1:6 as all the fruits of righteousness are from Jesus Christ Philippians 1:11[/quote]

 

[amadeus]

@JesusIsFaithful Continuation....

The work of the Holy Spirit is seen here:

“But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.” John 14:16

But for Pentecostals and Charismatics, it has a different meaning.


Which is considered giving another calling to receive another spirit apart from salvation from the original calling of the gospel and thus preaching another gospel.

If it were really a devilish spirit you might be right, but you know nothing at all. You speak as a man and fill in the blanks with the conclusions of a man following a man’s logic to fit a man preset doctrines rather than really getting in touch with God daily. All of our teachers and our own conclusions come short of God’s Word written in our hearts.. This is why we need to hear Him all of the time starting always in the lowest room:


Pentecostal, Charismatic, Catholic, Methodist, Baptist... hmmm? What is all of that? Which one right?


“Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.” Matt 24:23


“For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?


For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?


Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?


I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.


So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.” I Cor 3:3-7

Such a calling has been started from the early developments that formed the Catholic Church in what it is today.

The fact that there is a Catholic Charismatic Church should alarm the Pentecostals and Charismatics, especially since some do believe Catholics are going to hell. ( I don't think any one said that in here probably because the rules of the forum does not allow this, if I recall correctly. ) It is to that, I point out to them that as real as that phenomenon is in the Catholic Charismatic Church, why hasn't the Lord reproved them from the dead works in catholicism.

Maybe then they will see that it is not the Holy Spirit aka the Spirit of Truth but the spirits of the antichrist aka the spirit of error in putting on a good show with their visitations.

​

 

[amadeus]

@JesusIsFaithful Continuation final...

Instead arguing so strongly about what is wrong, when you really are unable to discern the difference here between right and wrong, how about simply teaching what is certain right. Don’t you even know that minimum that Jesus taught?


“Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.


This is the first and great commandment.


And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” Matt 22:37-40



That is where you start. Don’t add or subtract from that! That is my advice to you, but of course you will likely choose to go along your own way because you are never wrong, are you? You walk without a leader and presume you are right:


“O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.” Jerem 10:23


If ever my friend you expect to follow Jesus then begin by listening to Him. Again are you not one of sheep who hear his voice while hearing not the voice of strangers? Don’t presume that you have it all or that your pastor or your teachers have it all. Everyone of them as well as both of us are likely wrong in part. The only way anyone gets past this is to really follow Him. If we don’t what will have? Perhaps one more or two more supposedly Christian denominations based on the same Bible.


Help us dear Lord!

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

@JesusIsFaithful

I only plan to do this one time so you may realize that the answer you have is not the only answer a person can find in the scriptures. Is mine right and yours wrong? I am not saying that although of course I believe it even as you believe that you are right. That is the nature of the beast in man, is it not? Read up on what Solomon and others write about beasts.

Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

There is scripture used by some to refute many things on every side of every issue taken by any man who calls himself a Christian or to confirm many wrongs or to mislead people. Probably every large church group opposed to your beliefs in any way could and would be able to refute your position also by scripture. As the Catholics might ask, who is to decide who is right? You? Me?

The Lord Jesus Christ will as the personal Good Shepherd to each believer since He is the Head of every believer.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. 25 Brethren, pray for us.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness......24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

But what is the wicked? What is the corrupt spring? You presume that you know, but others will presume that you are in error? What does God think about it? Bouncing scriptures back and forth alone will not resolve the matter. This one reason there are so many radically opposed doctrines based on the very same verses of scripture depending upon which group’s theologians you want to hear.

What consequence is associated with the corrupt spring in Proverbs 25:26-28? Falling down; having no self control.

As to ruling over one’s own spirit, who does? Only God can but even He cannot if not allowed entrance by someone’s absolutely held doctrines. Kind of sounds a bit like the Pharisees of old fighting against their own Messiah prophesied for centuries.

If a christian decided to become a medium in receiving spirits for them to speak thru them, guess what will happen? God will permit that to occur because the believers is seeking to receive other spirits into that temple of the Holy Spirit which is his body.

Who determines what is “good”

“Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!” Isaiah 5:20-21

And to whom does a thing appear to be evil? A glass of whiskey may not appear evil to the alcoholic, but is it not likely to the most evil of things to him?

So basically, you are saying we cannot know what evil is and so nobody should be testing the spirits. I disagree with you as the scripture does obviously. 1 John 4:1-6 John 14:16-17

And exactly what is it that is confusion in the eyes of God? Is it not anyone going in his own ways instead of simply surrendering to Him and then following as He leads? Are you God? Are you the Holy Spirit?

We have His words and we have His judgments shared in the scripture.

1 Corinthians 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

Are you not one of His sheep that hear His voice?

“And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.” John 10:4-5

As opposed to following tongues without interpretation as a stranger's voice; yes, thanks to Him, I hear His words just find in the KJV.

And does the baby only take one drink of his mother’s milk then without another look back nor another taste he is of a sudden full grown and completely knowing?

Only One Spirit, but it may take more that a single taste to get us to the end of the road with Him. Consider even the very touch of Jesus here:

“And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.

And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.

After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.” Mark 8:23-25

It looks like not less than two touches there from the hands of the Master himself in order to see clearly. As Paul puts it:

“For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.” I Cor 13:12

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

How can the Father avoid the appearance of evil in this scriptural reference? By not giving the Holy Spirit again when He has given you the Holy Spirit the first time.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

@JesusIsFaithful Continuation....

The work of the Holy Spirit is seen here:

“But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.” John 14:16



If it were really a devilish spirit you might be right, but you know nothing at all. You speak as a man and fill in the blanks with the conclusions of a man following a man’s logic to fit a man preset doctrines rather than really getting in touch with God daily. All of our teachers and our own conclusions come short of God’s Word written in our hearts.. This is why we need to hear Him all of the time starting always in the lowest room:


Pentecostal, Charismatic, Catholic, Methodist, Baptist... hmmm? What is all of that? Which one right?


“Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.” Matt 24:23


“For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?


For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?


Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?


I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.


So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.” I Cor 3:3-7

So far, you have been arguing against the scripture to use the scripture for discerning good and evil by the scripture.

So how can you test the spirits? How can you know an evil spirit from the indwelling Holy Spirit if you look for the Holy Spirit to be felt outside of you in coming on you again and again and again? ( 1 John 4:1-4 ) How can you test the tongues that they bring ( Isaiah 8:19 & 1 John 4:5-6 & 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 )

By how it feels good? You forget those spirits are identified as seducing spirits in 1 Timothy 4:1-2

Khundalini which is an eastern mysticism, participants can bear witness of feeling a sense of peace and love and power and fire and electricity that they could revel in and enjoy those senses as in what those spirits brings.

The American Indians dance and chant for the "Great Spirit" to come whom they identified that "Great Spirit's" visit with the drunkenness of alcohol as in fire water.

So how can God call those sinners away from their spirits and their practice of calling for those spirits to come?

By not having that rudiment nor that practice mirror towards the Holy Spirit at all in worship since the judgment over every believer is to honor the Father by only honoring the Son and not the Holy Spirit at all. We know this is His will and meaning when He ends that verse with when those who do not honor the Son, they are no longer honoring the Father: John 5:22-23 That is why all invitations points to the Son so that those sinners can come to God the Father in worship by the only way of coming to the Son in honoring the Son in worship and thereby honoring the Father in the only way they can. So read His words below and take heed to His words that He actually meant what He said, especially for worship.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me....

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Receiving the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation is an appearance of evil because He is not abiding in you forever as promised by Jesus Christ from the Father.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

@JesusIsFaithful Continuation final...

Instead arguing so strongly about what is wrong, when you really are unable to discern the difference here between right and wrong, how about simply teaching what is certain right. Don’t you even know that minimum that Jesus taught?


“Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.


This is the first and great commandment.


And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” Matt 22:37-40



That is where you start. Don’t add or subtract from that! That is my advice to you, but of course you will likely choose to go along your own way because you are never wrong, are you? You walk without a leader and presume you are right:


“O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.” Jerem 10:23


If ever my friend you expect to follow Jesus then begin by listening to Him. Again are you not one of sheep who hear his voice while hearing not the voice of strangers? Don’t presume that you have it all or that your pastor or your teachers have it all. Everyone of them as well as both of us are likely wrong in part. The only way anyone gets past this is to really follow Him. If we don’t what will have? Perhaps one more or two more supposedly Christian denominations based on the same Bible.


Help us dear Lord!

Those who love Him will keep His sayings, brother. How else can you follow Him as well as abide in Him?

 

[Nancy]

Notice the focus on the Holy Spirit in receiving more infusion, more dramatic manifestations, and the power of the Holy Spirit for the ministry.

By seeking to have another drink of the One Spirit, that is why they are falling down, because they are drinking from another fountain.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

They say they are not doing it for confusion in the church, but seeing this, how is it not confusion with all of those people falling down?

So there is no seeking to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation when we are Spirit-filled since our salvation by coming to & believing in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel.

Our focus in worship should only be on the Son; and not after the rudiments in the world in how they receive spirits by seeing it after a sign like mediums do.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me....16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Watch this video and discern with Him at that throne of grace.

That video looks like the 1st non-Catholic church I had attended (a few times at a Luthern one) Sorry, I find all of that "sensationalism" totally out of order and very strange indeed. It did not stop me from seeking though-I could have just gone back to the Catholic church (which was out of the question) or go back under my rock, which I knew God was NOT calling me to. Ended up at an Assemblies of God and stayed for four years there...now am at a Baptist church that has awesome teaching. :)

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

That video looks like the 1st non-Catholic church I had attended (a few times at a Luthern one) Sorry, I find all of that "sensationalism" totally out of order and very strange indeed. It did not stop me from seeking though-I could have just gone back to the Catholic church (which was out of the question) or go back under my rock, which I knew God was NOT calling me to. Ended up at an Assemblies of God and stayed for four years there...now am at a Baptist church that has awesome teaching. :)

Currently, all the churches are seemingly apostate in one form or another in my area and even in all listed in the phone book. So Jesus is my Rock and Refuge so I guess some of my critics could say I am hiding under the "Rock". It is too bad that churches do not like any one "making waves" in trying to change the status quo in order to keep the faith which is the good fight, but it is signs of the times.

I would go to your church if I could but I have enemies that would follow me there to give them the means to sow discord somehow and in the way they have done so in the past. I cannot defend myself when they judge me without a trial and all I get for my troubles are other people's hurt feelings as was the purpose of my enemies in sowing discord.

And some of my enemies are professing christians even though they hold hands with atheists in the past in alienating me in the work place too.

That is why the Psalms comforts me as He reminds me that Jesus is Lord anyway.

 

[Nancy]

While I would agree falling down and jerking is not from the Holy Spirit. It also needs to be mentioned that to be right 9 times out of 10, seems to be hopeful. No man(including women) are a hundred percent right since we are all learning and growing daily. You may point out the Word is a hundred percent right...yes. But man's(including women) interpretations are not.

This can be true but...All of our pastors/teachers err in some way at some time...unknowingly, IMO but then there are those who tell 9 truths and carefully choose a well chosen lie (to suit their purposes) that throws the 9 truths out the window. "...a little leven levens the whole lump...1 Corinthians 5:1-13 , Matthew 16:5-12
Luke 12:1

 

[amadeus]

Those who love Him will keep His sayings, brother. How else can you follow Him as well as abide in Him?

My whole time here is His, but giving it back to Him at times means asking Him for help:

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened." Matt 7:7-8

And so I do as I must daily as needed.

"Rejoice evermore.
Pray without ceasing." I Thess 5:16-17

Over the years I have changed or have had changed many things that I believed and many things that I had been doing. This is the work of God in me. He is not finished with me yet... but I am 74 and my time left is likely much less than that which is already past. When we close our heart up to anything not already tightly embraced, we block God Himself. The scripture contains all that we need, but without His direction we find ourselves back at Ecc 12:12.

You reject things that I say and things that I do because they offend your logic as it applies to the Bible. His voice really is heard b y His sheep. I do hear Him. Not everyone knows what that means.

May God richly bless you as you open your heart to Him and grows as He would have you grow.

Give God the glory!

 

[Enoch111]

..a little leven levens the whole lump

Just make that "leaven". Otherwise good observations.