Spiritual versus Religious

[ScottA]

Explain this to me like 5 year old please.

:)

Much love!

...That is what the church did.

Jesus on the other hand spoke things that even the apostles "could not bear." But by now, we should have matured spiritually enough to take Him honestly at His word and believe what He actually said. In simple terms, paraphrasing, this is what He said:

"The prophets foretold of this time. I am the Beginning, meaning that everything from the first Adam until now, is in me. All of what was foretold will be accomplished in me, here and now (this generation), everything that was promised, I have come to fulfill. I am also the End, I am the Last of those born under the covenant given to Abraham. If I am lifted up according to the prophecies spoken of Me, all who are elect under the covenant with Abraham will be in Me and with Me when I go to our Father who is in heaven, when I go to receive the throne of David promised by God.

"As the End, also included in the promise to Abraham that he would be a blessing to every nation and people, I have another fold that I must bring. 'However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.' Therefore, when I am lifted up (crucified) the flesh 'will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it' and I will come to the gentiles in spirit; 'them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.'

"As the End, also means when it is finished, all is finished, it is the end: The dead of Israel and the living of the gentiles born of the spirit of God are with me; meaning that just as all in Adam sinned and died, all in Me shall live; and just as all the elect of Israel join Me in the finish which is the end, so too all those born again of the spirit of God of the gentiles also join Me in the finish which is the end: each in their own order, each in their own time. All of time is summed up in Me. As all in Adam were unfolded leading up to Me from the Beginning, so too all who are born even unto the End are folded back to Me, in the twinkling of an eye, when I say, 'It is finished.' That day of promise, today, and the Beginning and the End are the day of the Lord, as it is written 'now is the day of salvation.'"

...Believe it, or see it for yourself in the end.

 

[Mayflower]

Be ye imitaters of me, as I also imitate Christ.

Or, like we use to say, fake it til you make it.

Oh yeah!

Still doing that, by the way . . .

Oh wow!!!! Never saw this verse like that before!!!!! I heard that phrase many times, but never tied them together!

 

[Mayflower]

In response to my own thread, I need to add another idea about Hell. I believe the world is building Hell right now. We are becoming more isolated and more individualized as a society, everyday. Perhaps the ‘worldliness’ Christ has told us to avoid will be Hell one day - the environment is falling apart.....who knows, worldly people here may not really be headed anywhere. They may be forced to live in the world they have destroyed.

I personally believe in a real fire and brimstone Hell. But I believe there can be Hell on earth too. I'm putting that on the backburner of thought though, because I know where I am going. My Father is to thank!

 

[marks]

the flesh 'will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it' and I will come to the gentiles in spirit;

Hi Scott,

Thank you for your post! Yes I think you did understand my question very well. I'm going to need to read it a few more times I think, but I have one more question, and thank you for being patient with me!

This part I've quoted above, when you say, the spirit will return to God, what does that mean for the person?

Much love!

 

[David kilmer]

Complacency?

Oh some people feel cheated and become complacent. They loose their loved ones and mind and get hit with a tranquilizer.

 

[David kilmer]

Hi Scott,

Thank you for your post! Yes I think you did understand my question very well. I'm going to need to read it a few more times I think, but I have one more question, and thank you for being patient with me!

This part I've quoted above, when you say, the spirit will return to God, what does that mean for the person?

Much love!

It means God will have elderly dementia. Dalalalalalots of paypa k.

 

[ScottA]

Hi Scott,

Thank you for your post! Yes I think you did understand my question very well. I'm going to need to read it a few more times I think, but I have one more question, and thank you for being patient with me!

This part I've quoted above, when you say, the spirit will return to God, what does that mean for the person?

Much love!

It means we "go to the Father" and are "One", just as Jesus did. It means the fulfillment of all God's promises. It means the commencement of the new heavens and the new earth, and all that "eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

 

[marks]

In response to my own thread, I need to add another idea about Hell. I believe the world is building Hell right now. We are becoming more isolated and more individualized as a society, everyday. Perhaps the ‘worldliness’ Christ has told us to avoid will be Hell one day - the environment is falling apart.....who knows, worldly people here may not really be headed anywhere. They may be forced to live in the world they have destroyed.

C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce, a fun little allegory of those in hell, like you discribe here.

Much love!

 

[marks]

It means we "go to the Father" and are "One", just as Jesus did. It means the fulfillment of all God's promises. It means the commencement of the new heavens and the new earth, and all that "eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

Individually? I don't mean separate or apart, but each at their own time of passage?

 

[Helen]

Can you imagine, year after year after year, being carried about to do your proffession, sitting in the way begging, seeing 1000's and 1000's healed, but not you, and then Jesus is gone.

Sounds like you are speaking about the church in our day!!!!!!!

 

[ScottA]

Individually? I don't mean separate or apart, but each at their own time of passage?

Yes, individually, as Paul indicated, "each in his own order." Which if we understand the nature of time which is created, transitioning with eternity which is not; all people come into the world in their own time, and likewise also leave in their own time. But because eternity does not tick or advance in the same way, each person enters and leaves time in their own time, but departs and also arrives back in eternity--together. This, incidentally, is how "every eye shall see."

But the "together" part is a bit abstract. We of time ordered thinking have trouble relating. Without going into all the details, the time of this event is either noted or relative to the context of time and history as we know it, by date, etc... But in terms of eternity (from that side of the equation or event), it is just known by the event or with reference to time, such as "before the foundation of the world"; or with no reference to time, but rather the best possible term regarding eternity known within the context of time, as "in the twinkling of an eye."

So, like a raft in a sea of eternity, time has its own context, as does the sea. But the sea does not keep the days, it just is. Although like "in the twinkling of an eye", such an analogy is limited to that lesser context, and therefore is only a crude example by comparison.

 

[Waiting on him]

Oh some people feel cheated and become complacent. They loose their loved ones and mind and get hit with a tranquilizer.

Do you hate Him pretty bad???

 

[marks]

Yes, individually, as Paul indicated, "each in his own order." Which if we understand the nature of time which is created, transitioning with eternity which is not; all people come into the world in their own time, and likewise also leave in their own time. But because eternity does not tick or advance in the same way, each person enters and leaves time in their own time, but departs and also arrives back in eternity--together. This, incidentally, is how "every eye shall see."

But the "together" part is a bit abstract. We of time ordered thinking have trouble relating. Without going into all the details, the time of this event is either noted or relative to the context of time and history as we know it, by date, etc... But in terms of eternity (from that side of the equation or event), it is just known by the event or with reference to time, such as "before the foundation of the world"; or with no reference to time, but rather the best possible term regarding eternity known within the context of time, as "in the twinkling of an eye."

So, like a raft in a sea of eternity, time has its own context, as does the sea. But the sea does not keep the days, it just is. Although like "in the twinkling of an eye", such an analogy is limited to that lesser context, and therefore is only a crude example by comparison.

Hey Scott,

I think I'm getting a handle on how you see these things!

My wife and I have discussed the same sort of time abstraction, as we consider the rapture, and those who die before, that regardless, we all arrive at the same moment, I hesitate to say "time".

And so then at the end of this world's history, as it were, then what happens? Is there a time when God calls everyone home, and this world stops existing?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Sounds like you are speaking about the church in our day!!!!!!!

So how do we keep people from being left behind?

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

Hey Scott,

I think I'm getting a handle on how you see these things!

My wife and I have discussed the same sort of time abstraction, as we consider the rapture, and those who die before, that regardless, we all arrive at the same moment, I hesitate to say "time".

And so then at the end of this world's history, as it were, then what happens? Is there a time when God calls everyone home, and this world stops existing?

Much love!

I’ve heard it said, the plays not over till the Author steps on the stage.

 

[aspen]

C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce, a fun little allegory of those in hell, like you discribe here.

Much love!

CS Lewis has been been a big influence on my theology - you will probably see him again when you read my posts :)

 

[marks]

CS Lewis has been been a big influence on my theology - you will probably see him again when you read my posts :)

Waiting on Him is reminding me of The Weight of Glory, when the Director steps out on the stage.

Much love!

 

[aspen]

Waiting on Him is reminding me of The Weight of Glory, when the Director steps out on the stage.

Much love!

The Weight of Glory is my favorite essay by Lewis

 

[marks]

The Weight of Glory is my favorite essay by Lewis

Mine too!

:)

 

[Nancy]

CS Lewis has been been a big influence on my theology - you will probably see him again when you read my posts :)

Hi Ron,
Have you seen the movie about C.S.. Shadowland? With Anthony Hopkins playing C.S.? Deborah Winger is in it too.
And, then there is "The Letters", which IMHO is the best adaptation of Mother Theresa...