So what does the divinity of Jesus really mean, anyway?

[APAK]

Whatever at any point in time you think Jesus IS… a human man or God…Jesus is the Same He always was.

Heb 10:
[8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

You have the wrong quoted verse.

(Heb 13:7) Remember those that had the rule over you, those who spoke to you the word of God. Consider the outcome of their life, and imitate their faith.
(Heb 13:8) Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and for ever.
(Heb 13:9) Do not be carried away by various and strange teachings. For it is good that the heart be established by grace- not with food laws, which have not profited those who have been so occupied with them.

So what does verse 8 mean? I expect it's not what you think it means.

Here's an extended Biblical view of the verse Taken, with a bias on 'yesterday.'

//
These verses (7-9) are focused on the gospel of Christ and what he did for us. Verse 8 is not about a pre-existence, existence or the future existence of Jesus/Yahshua. It is about his teaching that never changes over time. We are to remember his words and not to be derailed by false witnesses and teachers, especially after he ascended to heaven.

Its meaning is all about Jesus, what he did and said to others and especially to us. He and his profile, his relationship with his Father and thus his teachings never changes, then, today and tomorrow. Verse 7 warned us not to imitate the leaders, verse 9 says don't go following other ways and strange doctrines that is not Jesus or not about the real Jesus and his teachings.

Although some people try to use this verse as if it says Jesus Christ has existed from eternity past, the very wording shows clearly that is not the case.

A study of the word 'Yesterday' in Scripture shows that it refers to something that happened only a short time before. It would create new grammatic boundaries beyond its intended use, beyond acceptable limits to try to make this verse say that Christ has always existed.

The word transliterated from the Greek is 'echthes' (or 'chthes'), and it appears only three times in the New Testament: John 4:52, Acts 7:28, and Hebrews 13:8. In the first two occurrences, the word is clearly used to mean, the day before today:

John 4:52 (NASB) So he inquired of them the hour when he began to get better. Then they said to him, “Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him.”

Acts 7:28-29 (NASB) ‘You do not mean to kill me as you killed the Egyptian yesterday, do you?’ 29 “At this remark, Moses fled and became an alien in the land of Midian, where he became the father of two sons.

Strong’s Concordance defines 'echthes' as: yesterday; by extension in time past or hitherto (until now).

Thayer’s Greek Lexicon defines it as: of time just past.

The Complete Word Dictionary of the New Testament says 'echthes' is an adverb of time; yesterday; also refers to past or former time.

The word 'echthes' is used twice in the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the OT. In both places, it is used to signify a non-specific length of time in the past that could still be recalled by those in the present (generation):

Genesis 31:2 (NASB) Jacob saw the attitude of Laban, and behold, it was not friendly toward him as formerly.

2 Samuel 3:17 (NASB) Now Abner had consultation with the elders of Israel, saying, “In times past you were seeking for David to be king over you.” (emphasis added)

Based on its usage in the New Testament and the Septuagint, yesterday ('echthes') is never used to denote time before time or time long ago. To then say that 'Yesterday' in Hebrews 13:8 refers to Jesus’ supposed eternality would be very inconsistent with its definition and scriptural usage.

John Calvin, although a Trinitarian, understood that the text under review was not a proof for Jesus’ theoretical pre-existence. Rather, the reformer understood it to refer to the knowledge of Christ: He said....

'It hence appears that the Apostle is not speaking of the eternal existence of Christ, but of that knowledge of him, which was possessed by the godly in all ages, and was the perpetual foundation of the Church. '

Thomas Constable, in his expository notes of the Bible, offered his understanding of the text of Hebrews 13:8:

Jesus Christ is the content of the message that the leaders had preached to these hearers (see Hebrews 13:7). That message and its hero is what this writer had urged his readers not to abandon. The leaders had preached the Word of God to these readers, and that preaching culminated in Jesus Christ.

It is about the truth of Jesus's doctrines that never changes over time and spoke of them. Don't go following strange doctrines and gods like a pre-existent or incarnated Yahshua for example. It never happened.

The first word in verse 7. ‘remember’ gives us the connection with the word ‘yesterday’ used in verse 8. The word ‘remember’ is linked to the word yesterday! Remember the past when the gospel was preached to you!

This sets the time of what ‘yesterday’ means. Yesterday is the time when Jesus came to deliver the gospel of God to men. This gospel concerning Jesus as our Lord and Savior has not changed since that time, today and into the next age(s), because Jesus has not changed over time.

 

[Jack]

God calling His Son "God":

Hebrews 1:6-8
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him."
7 And of the angels He says: "Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire."
8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.

 

[Lizbeth]

I recommend that you seek God out with your heart, just as his word says.

As for the rest of your post...I will not be going over the same old ground that you continually repeat...

We are a new creation in Christ, the Born Again, partaker Of his divine nature, we are being conformed into the image of Jesus.

Not by our own strength and might, but, by the power of the Spirit who has birthed our spirit into his.

Flesh gives birth to flesh.

Spirit gives birth to spirit.

I understand God’s word the way he has brought me to understand his word.

You and I most definitely do not understand God’s word the same as each other....

I do not understand your teaching of Gods word, that you try and preach / teach to me.

I’m on my own journey with the Lord, you are not part of my journey, you’re on your own journey..

Bible Verses That Indicate Jesus Is Not God The Creator

1. Matthew 24:36
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only.
Here Jesus makes a distinction between what he knows and what the Father knows.

2. Matthew 26:39
My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me, yet not as I will, but as Thou will.
Jesus’ will is likewise autonomous from God’s Will. Jesus is seeking acquiescence to God’s will.

3. John 5:26
For as the Father has life in Himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself.
Jesus received his life from God. God received his life from no one. He is eternally self-existent.

4. John 5:30
By myself, I can do nothing: I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who has sent me.
Jesus says, “by myself, I can do nothing.” This indicates that Jesus is relying upon his own relationship with God. He is not trying to “please myself” but rather is seeking to “please the one who sent me.”

5. John 5:19
The Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees the Father doing, because whatever the Father does, the Son does also.
Jesus declares that he is following a pattern laid down by God. He is expressing obedience to God.

6. Mark 10:18
Why do you call me good? No one is good, except God alone.
Here Jesus emphatically makes a distinction between himself and God.

7. John 14:28
The Father is greater than I.
This is another strong statement that makes a distinction between Jesus and God.

8. Matthew 6:9
Our Father, which art in Heaven.
He didn’t pray, Our Father, which art standing right here!”

9. Matthew 27:46
My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Inconceivable if he is God the Creator.

10. John 17:21-23
. . .that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. . ..that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me.
In this prayer Jesus defines the term “to be one.” It is clearly accomplished through the relationship of two autonomous beings. Christian believers are to model their relationship (to become one) after the relationship of God and Christ (as God and Christ are one). Notice that “to be one” does not mean to be “one and the same.”

11. 1 Corinthians 15:27-28
For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
Paul declares that God put everything under Christ, except God himself. Instead God rules all things through Christ. (remember: “through him all things were made.”)

12. Hebrews 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being.
Jesus is the exact representation of his being. I send my representative to Congress. He is not me, myself. He is my representative.

13. Hebrews 4:15 (compared with James 1:13)
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet without sin.
Jesus has been tempted in every way, just as we are, yet he never sinned. See

James 1:13: When tempted, no one should say, God is tempting me. For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt.
Jesus was tempted in every way, but God cannot be tempted. This is why Jesus said, “don’t call me good, none are good, only God.”

14. Hebrews 5:7-9
During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
Jesus had to walk a course of faith and obedience in order to achieve perfection. By achieving perfection, Jesus “became” the source of eternal salvation

Good day @Lizbeth ....no point going over the same ground, that we constantly do,...you have your beliefs, I have mine.

Presumably we are both here for the purpose of back and forth discussion as that is what a forum is for. So discuss I will, as I wish. You are always free to ignore me if you wish. The bible tells us plainly in more than place Who Jesus is sister. It's up to you if you want to ignore those passages of scripture and would rather be taught by men's commentaries than by the Holy Spirit.

God in the form of God can't be tempted. Jesus in the form of a man was tempted through the flesh as we are...but unlike us He always overcame every temptation perfectly. Jesus saying why do you call me good, no one is good but God........was Him tactfully alluding to Who He was, if we have ears to hear it. Yes He learned obedience, because He had left His Divinity behind and was in the form of a man. He was born as a baby and had to learn like children have to learn as they grow up, but unlike ordinary human children, Jesus never ever sinned. He was in fact, good.....so who was He then if no one is good but God?

 

[brightfame52]

I agree. While it is true that your perspective on a passage being self-explanatory is valid, your interpretation of John 1:1 is flawed because it focuses only on one or two verses. A single verse cannot stand alone as self-explanatory. The best way to understand the true meaning of a verse is to consider the entire paragraph and, if necessary, the whole chapter.

My understanding of it is correct, yours is flawed

 

[APAK]

God calling His Son "God":

Hebrews 1:6-8
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him."
7 And of the angels He says: "Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire."
8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.

Please, you really think that his God is calling his Son also the same God, as the Father? You might want to get some help if you do..

Not that it will make any dent in or into your mind of course, although you might want to know that the Greek transliterated word for the poor English translation of 'worship' in verse 6b...is the following

προσκυνέω
proskuneō
Thayer Definition:
1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
2) among the Orientals, especially the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
3a) used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank
3a1) to the Jewish high priests
3a2) to God
3a3) to Christ
3a4) to heavenly beings
3a5) to demons
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4314 and a probable derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand)

And in verse 8a, it is not really say for the Son of God that he is God, of another confusing and poor translation.

It simply means that God is the son's throne for his use as the center of power for the future ages as the King of the Kingdom (verse 8b)

A better translation might be: "your throne is God forever” or “God is your throne forever.”

A well-known trinitarian NT scholar, Dr. William Barclay, says : “God is your throne for ever and ever.”

The Good News Bible (GNB), Bible says: : “The kingdom that God has given you will last
forever and ever.” 1976.

The Good News Translation (GNT says): “The kingdom that God has given you will last forever and
ever.” 1992.

It is from Psalms 45:6, and most probably a reference to David and to his descendent, Yahshua

And why may you ask God is his throne, verse 9 gives us a clue:

(Heb 1:9) You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows.

He was raised by his father with God's power, above any human being in power and majesty, and not above his own Father who is his God of course.

 

[Ritajanice]

Presumably we are both here for the purpose of back and forth discussion as that is what a forum is for.

We are, but I am not here to argue, neither am I here to be taught by you,...until you and I understand what it means to be Born Again, as we clearly don’t agree on what it means to be Born Again....that is probably why we don’t agree on this so called trinity, that isn’t even biblical..... let’s be honest..you believe that God can leave our spirit even though our spirit has been birthed...that is where our differences lay...I think we need to have a discussion about being Born Again of imperishable seed that liveth and abideth forever...are you up for that @Lizbeth ?...I have asked you again about discussing the rebirth further down....we are very much in opposition of what the rebirth actually means....that is why we are at loggerheads heads regarding this non biblical trinity business.

So discuss I will, as I wish.

I will not argue over the divinity of Jesus being fully God..I don’t believe he is...that is my belief, you believe he is...so, what next?....just going over the same old ground, you post scripture for the trinity, I post scripture against the trinity, shall we stay on the merry go round, or shall we agree to disagree?

You are always free to ignore me if you wish.

No chance of that, as long as we stay discussing, and not telling the other what they should or should not believe, my faith is very much Alive and Active, it’s forever growing , plus my spirit is also maturing, ..the Spirit in my spirit, is the one teaching and helping me to mature in His Spirit.

Who do you think is conforming me into the image of Jesus?

The Bible or the Living Spirit who has taken up permanent residence in my spirit...Spirit gives birth to spirit?

The Bible confirms Gods truth, that he is a Living Spirit..that we are Born Of The Spirit, who is a “ Living Spirit “ he is not the Bible, the word of God is Alive and Active...Gods Spirit is everywhere, waiting to birth another sinner in the Spirit?

The Bible does not give birth to our spirit @Lizbeth ..I have tried to explain this to you many times...we are Born Of imperishable seed, a Living seed...the Living word of God.

The bible tells us plainly in more than place Who Jesus is sister. It's up to you if you want to ignore those passages of scripture and would rather be taught by men's commentaries than by the Holy Spirit.

Not sure if you understand this, that the Spirit talks to us through commentaries, through people, there are many ways that the Spirit speaks to Gods children, ..don’t confine God to the Bible.Everything the Spirit speaks/ testifies to my spirit, I check with scripture, that is how we communicate with God, Spirit to spirit, I think this is where we aren’t understanding each other...we also both understand being Born Of The Spirit very differently...

From the moment by spirit was birthed, which means that the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children, my spirit knows it’s Born Again by Gods Living Witness the Spirit, you don’t need to read any bible to become Born Of The Spirit, that is a supernatural act that only the Spirit can do ,if God so chooses to do, according to his will.

I think we may be off topic, I would love to carry this on further with you, where God tells us to seek him out with all of our heart, that means from within our spirit Lizbeth, as it’s our spirit that has the direct line to our Spirit Father God....our spirit has been Born Again, by the will of God...not by our will, by Gods will, I had no choice on becoming Born Of The Spirit as I was chosen and predestined to become Gods child, all according to his purpose and plan.

Shall I start another thread about the heart of God and tag you in it, so that we can continue our discussion in the spirit @Lizbeth ?....rather than take APAK thread off topic.

God in the form of God can't be tempted. Jesus in the form of a man was tempted through the flesh as we are...but unlike us He always overcame every temptation perfectly.

A Born Again can also overcome temptation perfectly , why, because they have been Born Of The Spirit?

We rely on God’s strength to keep us from temptation .....as in, a non believer is in the world ,of the world, A Born Again is under God’s authority, we belong to our Father God, ...when we have been Born OF the Spirit, we have the Spirit Of The Living God indwelling our heart/ spirit permanently....as we walk and learn by the Spirit, we can 100% resist temptation, why, because we’re in the Spirit we are not in the flesh...?

Jesus saying why do you call me good, no one is good but God........was Him tactfully alluding to Who He was, if we have ears to hear it.

The minute we are Born Of The Spirit, we are gifted spiritual eyes and ears, ..it is the role of the Spirit who has birthed our spirit into his, only he can help us grow and develop our spiritual eyes and ears, this is why we need to seek God out with all our heart mind and soul...just like Jesus a Born Again has a “ Living “ spirit relationship with their Father God, we communicate with God via his Spirit who gave birth to our spirit..Spirit gives birth to spirit.?

Yes He learned obedience, because He had left His Divinity behind and was in the form of a man. He was born as a baby and had to learn like children have to learn as they grow up, but unlike ordinary human children, Jesus never ever sinned. He was in fact, good.....so who was He then if no one is good but God?

Who was he then, he has already spoken in the Bible that he isn’t God.

He learnt obedience through his Father’s Spirit, who he was in direct communication with, just like we are in direct communication with Gods Spirit as a Born Again?

Only we didn’t become Born Of God like Jesus, because we were born into sin, plus my parents were alienated from God , they were not Born Of The Spirit, being Born Of The Spirit is a supernatural Living spirit birth, where Spirit gives birth to spirit...

Jesus learnt obedience by his Father God..just like we learn obedience by the Spirit of God ...only Jesus was already chosen and predestined to become the Messiah, just like the Born Again are chosen and predestined to become Born Again.

Jesus is the perfect representation of his Father, why, because he was Born from the perfect seed of God, a Living seed..Jesus was perfect in every way as he came from the supernatural Living seed of God..the same seed that gives birth to our spirit, ....only we were imperfect..as we were Born Of Our biological Fathers seed...therefore we learnt and were taught by our earthly parents...Jesus was taught by His perfect Father God, because he was God’s only begotten Son?...

Jesus is our role model, we follow him as a Born Again , we are joined to him in Spirit,Jesus was the first Born, the perfect first Born Of many, ..why must we be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God?

There is no recognition from God, unless we are reconciled back to him in spirit, why do you think that Jesus had to die then was resurrected back to life?

Jesus body died...God can’t die....God resurrected Jesus back to life....Jesus has a resurrected body does he not?

We will have the same resurrected body just like Jesus...The Bible doesn’t reconcile us back to God, it’s because of Jesus death and resurrection that we can be reconciled back to our father God...thats if it his will to do so.....we don’t choose to become Born Of The Spirit...

If we are saved, then what are we saved from?

If our spirit is Born Again, then we will know from the Spirit testimony what we are saved from?

We must be Born Again then we are saved from what?

What in us has been Born Again and saved?...I’m just trying to understand where you are coming from as in, if we don’t agree what salvation means, then I can’t see us agreeing on anything else as we can well see from our back and forth disagreements....we are most definitely on different levels of understanding spiritual matters...but then again, God does speak to us his way, that we understand, so I guess it doesn’t matter that we understand spiritual matters differently.

He speaks to you through the Bible.

The Spirit has always spoken to my heart/ spirit as well as the Bible....the Bible confirms that God is a Living Spirit and it’s by the Living Spirit that our spirit becomes Born Again....the Bible also confirms how our spirit is reborn/ Born Again/ regenerated/ Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed.

The Spirit does the sowing the Spirit does the growing....without being Born Of The Spirit we couldn’t grow in spirit.....humans grow in knowledge from the world.

Born Agains grow from the Spirit of the Living God.they grow up in Christ...representing the Spirit and not the world....the world becomes a boring place, as we get closer and closer to the LIVING heart/ Spirit Of God....

 

[Jack]

Please, you really think that his God is calling his Son also the same God, as the Father?

Of course, that's what it clearly says to those who can read!

You might want to get some help if you do..

Not that it will make any dent in or into your mind of course, although you might want to know that the Greek transliterated word for the poor English translation of 'worship' in verse 6b...is the following

προσκυνέω
proskuneō
Thayer Definition:
1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
2) among the Orientals, especially the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
3a) used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank
3a1) to the Jewish high priests
3a2) to God
3a3) to Christ
3a4) to heavenly beings
3a5) to demons
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4314 and a probable derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand)

And in verse 8a, it is not really say for the Son of God that he is God, of another confusing and poor translation.

It simply means that God is the son's throne for his use as the center of power for the future ages as the King of the Kingdom (verse 8b)

A better translation might be: "your throne is God forever” or “God is your throne forever.”

A well-known trinitarian NT scholar, Dr. William Barclay, says : “God is your throne for ever and ever.”

The Good News Bible (GNB), Bible says: : “The kingdom that God has given you will last
forever and ever.” 1976.

The Good News Translation (GNT says): “The kingdom that God has given you will last forever and
ever.” 1992.

It is from Psalms 45:6, and most probably a reference to David and to his descendent, Yahshua

And why may you ask God is his throne, verse 9 gives us a clue:

(Heb 1:9) You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows.

He was raised by his father with God's power, above any human being in power and majesty, and not above his own Father who is his God of course.

What makes you qualified to rewrite our Bible? What are your credentials?

 

[Taken]

You have the wrong quoted verse.

Thanks. Yes Heb 13::8.
(Heb 13:8) Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and for ever.

So what does verse 8 mean? I expect it's not what you think it means.

I suspect we disagree on this point.

Here's an extended Biblical view of the verse Taken, with a bias on 'yesterday.'

Human men, have a beginning.
God does not have a Beginning.
Gods Creation and Making has a beginning.

//
These verses (7-9) are focused on the gospel of Christ and what he did for us. Verse 8 is not about a pre-existence,…

Disagree.
Heb 13:
8) Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and for ever.
Is about:
Jesus…Word of God.
Christ…Power and Seed of God.

existence or the future existence of Jesus/Yahshua. It is about his teaching that never changes over time.

Agree, Jesus “Teaching” does not change over time…however Heb 13:8 Is about Jesus Christ, not what He did/does.

John 1:
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Heb 13:
[8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Isa 40:
[8] The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Mal 3:
[6] For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Matt 24:
[35] Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

In the Beginning of Gods Creation and Making…

Gen 1:
[1a] In the beginning
God created the heaven and the earth.

[2b]…the Spirit of God moved…

[3a] And God said…

Gods Word spoke …
Gods Spirit (Power) moved…

Gods Word.. revealed IS JESUS
Gods Power…revealed is CHRIST

John 1:
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Heaven and Earth Created…
The Making IS what Effects The Creation..
* Earth Created Formless…
Made to Have a form.
* Earth Created Dark…
Made to Have Light.
* ManKind Created…
Make to Have Life

Creation Started / Finished 6 Days.
Making Of Creation…Continues Changing….
By, Through, Of the Power of God: CHRIST.

We are to remember his words and not to be derailed by false witnesses and teachers,

“Agree.
Jesus Christ Has not, Does Not Change.”

Creations Do Change.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I will not argue over the divinity of Jesus being fully God..I don’t believe he is..

I would say the fullness of God IS All that God IS …His Body, Soul, Spirit, Word, Power.
(same likeness that applies to one man)

I check with scripture, that is how we communicate with God, Spirit to spirit,

I would say a mans communication with God
* IS First Through Gods Word, Jesus.
* IS Directly to God, Through a born again spirit.
* Scripture IS to VERIFY What men hear from men, IS accurately Gods Word.

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ritajanice]

I would say the fullness of God IS All that God IS …His Body, Soul, Spirit, Word, Power.
(same likeness that applies to mankind)

Thank you for voicing your belief.

I would say a mans communication with God * IS First Through Gods Word, Jesus.
* IS Directly to God, Through a born again spirit.

I would say, The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are the children of God...which means that the Spirit speaks to our spirit as he’s indwelling it, then taking up permanent residence in our spirit.

I would say you and I have the same understanding of what it means to be Born Again, plus you and I agree that we can never lose our salvation as our spirit has been birthed into the Spirit of Christ.

* Scripture IS to VERIFY What men hear from men, IS accurately Gods Word.

I would say scripture confirms the testimony of the Holy Spirit, he is Gods Living witness..who testifies Of God’s truth to our hearts/ spirit...our spirit is in direct communication with God via His Spirit,once our spirit has been permanently birthed into Christ.

From the minute we are supernaturally birthed, we start our spiritual journey with God.....and boy, it ain’t no easy ride, but oh so worth all the trials and tribulations that we face along the way...it just brings our heart / spirit closer and closer to the heart of God...I seek God’s heart out all day every day...getting to know him in Spirit and truth is mind blowing....we have a Living spiritual relationship with our Father God how amazing is that...that our spirit belongs to God and not this world any longer...Praise God!...that he sent Jesus to the cross...

It’s true what the word says, Jesus will never lose one of those, who the Father has given him..

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Jack]

John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God"!

Amen Thomas! Jesus is my God too.

 

[Taken]

Thank you for voicing your belief.

I would say, The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are the children of God...which means that the Spirit speaks to our spirit as he’s indwelling it, then taking up permanent residence in our spirit.

I would say you and I have the same understanding of what it means to be Born Again, plus you and I agree that we can never lose our salvation as our spirit has been birthed into the Spirit of Christ.

I would say scripture confirms the testimony of the Holy Spirit, he is Gods Living witness..who testifies Of God’s truth to our hearts/ spirit...our spirit is in direct communication with God via His Spirit,once our spirit has been permanently birthed into Christ.

From the minute we are supernaturally birthed, we start our spiritual journey with God.....and boy, it ain’t no easy ride, but oh so worth all the trials and tribulations that we face along the way...it just brings our heart / spirit closer and closer to the heart of God...I seek God’s heart out all day every day...getting to know him in Spirit and truth is mind blowing....we have a Living spiritual relationship with our Father God how amazing is that...that our spirit belongs to God and not this world any longer...Praise God!...that he sent Jesus to the cross...

It’s true what the word says, Jesus will never lose one of those, who the Father has given him..

We have some agreement on important things….primarily disagree on Christ Jesus Divinity.

Divine,, Holy, Sinless, Not able to Sin, absolutely Applies to Christ the Lord Jesus.

2Cor 5:
[21] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1Pet2:
[22] Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

Col1:
[19] For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Col2:
[9] For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
[10] And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

In Him…IS “IN” Christ, which Occurs ONCE a man becomes Forgiven, bodily Dead, Soul Saved, Spirit Born Again.

Jesus’ body, did Not require Forgiveness, Soul Salvation, Spirit Born Again….
Jesus was ManKinds “Visible”Example.

Why did men Need a Visible Example?
Because it is “natural” human nature to “challenge, doubt, wonder, disagree, reject” what they “only hear”, but “can not SEE”.

142 times God reveals In The OT what and when Shall Come to pass.

19 more times in the NT God reveals what and when Shall come to pass.



Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ritajanice]

We have some agreement on important things….primarily disagree on Christ Jesus Divinity.

Divine,, Holy, Sinless, Not able to Sin, absolutely Applies to Christ the Lord Jesus.

His will was always aligned with the will of God, before the foundation of the world...that doesn’t make him fully God...His Spirit and will we’re in perfect harmony with his Spirit Father God.

2Cor 5:
[21] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1Pet2:
[22] Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

Col1:
[19] For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Col2:
[9] For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
[10] And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Again, none of that scripture refers to Jesus being fully God Of the universe.

In Him…IS “IN” Christ, which Occurs ONCE a man becomes Forgiven, bodily Dead, Soul Saved, Spirit Born Again.

We are Born Of The Spirit exactly how the word says we are Born Again...your words are confusing above and aren’t biblical...

If you are saved, what have you been saved from?...what in you knows it’s been Born Again and saved from what?

You must know what we are under @Taken as non believers that we once were....what are we freed from the moment our spirit becomes Born Again?

We aren’t saved not until our spirit has become Born Again.

Jesus’ body, did Not require Forgiveness, Soul Salvation, Spirit Born Again….
Jesus was ManKinds “Visible”Example.

Jesus was the Son Of God, he came from God’s seed...yet was Mary sinless?

I believe the seed that Jesus grew from kept him free from sin in Mary’s womb....because the seed was the Living seed of Father God.who was/ is Jesus Spirit Father......no way could the fullness of God take root and grow inside Mary’s womb.

The Living Spirit Of God cannot be contained....why do you think he sent Jesus?...whose Spirit are we Born Of?....the fullness of Gods Spirit....or are we Born Again by Gods Living representative the Living Spirit @Taken ?

Whose Spirit represents the Fathers Spirit.....Jesus....Holy Spirit all work along side God....they do and are doing his will on earth as we speak.....who gives birth to sinners spirit, once they have been forgiven...the Fullness Of God, I think not.

Why did men Need a Visible Example?
Because it is “natural” human nature to “challenge, doubt, wonder, disagree, reject” what they “only hear”, but “can not SEE”.

We needed the example of Jesus, A,because he is the only way that our spirit can be reconciled back to God...no one can come to the Father except through the Son.

142 times God reveals In The OT what and when Shall Come to pass.

19 more times in the NT God reveals what and when Shall come to pass.

Mary came with child, by the power of the Holy Ghost/ Spirit?

Glory to God,
Taken

All Praise goes to God for sending Jesus to the cross....no Jesus no recognition or reconciliation back to God.

My spirit is reconciled back to God, not my body, my body is dead because of sin.

My heart/ spirit is in the “ LIVING “ God...it is not in self......my heart seeks God out all day every day...how could I possibly know or seek God from within my heart...if I’m not Born Of The Spirit?

 

[Jack]

Again, none of that scripture refers to Jesus being fully God Of the universe.

My oh my oh my ...

How about this one. Col 1 By Jesus all things were created!

Or this one. John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God"!

Or this one. Isaiah 9:6
6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

How about Heb 1 where God called His Son "God"?

My oh my oh my ...

 

[Ritajanice]

My oh my oh my ...

How about this one. Col 1 By Jesus all things were created!

Or this one. John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God"!

Or this one. Isaiah 9:6
6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

How about Heb 1 where God called His Son "God"?

My oh my oh my ...

After the death and resurrection of Jesus...only then was Jesus exalted by His Father God....he sits at his right hand...if Jesus was fully God, as you believe he is...then God would be sitting next to himself...LOL.

Plus if Jesus was fully God...he would most definitely know the hour of his return.....he doesn’t know when his return will be....so how can the Father keep that knowledge from him if he was fully God?..LOL.

Can you not see how ridiculous that sounds.....we are reconciled back to God, because of the death and resurrection of Jesus...what in us has been reconciled back to God @Jack ....are you able to answer that spirit question?

We need Spirit knowledge as well as Bible knowledge.....that’s why we must be Born Again to even start to understand the word of God, I hope you know that @Jack ?

One can still be a Christian who follows the teachings of the Bible, but, to know God on a spiritual level...we must be Born of the Spirit @Jack .

Without the Spirit of God, we are still alienated from him, that’s why it’s imperative that our spirit has been birthed, otherwise we would only then, be leading ourselves through scripture...as in human understanding..if that makes sense?

We need the Spirit to lead us through scripture and bring it to our understanding....that’s why our spirit must be Born Again/ regenerated/ Alive in Christ.

 

[Jack]

After the death and resurrection of Jesus...only then was Jesus exalted by His Father God....he sits at his right hand...if Jesus was fully God, as you believe he is...then God would be sitting next to himself...LOL.

Plus if Jesus was fully God...he would most definitely know the hour of his return.....he doesn’t know when his return will be....so how can the Father keep that knowledge from him if he was fully God?..LOL.

Can you not see how ridiculous that sounds.....we are reconciled back to God, because of the death and resurrection of Jesus...what in us has been reconciled back to God @Jack ....are you able to answer that spirit question?

We need Spirit knowledge as well as Bible knowledge.....that’s why we must be Born Again to even start to understand the word of God, I hope you know that @Jack ?

One can still be a Christian who follows the teachings of the Bible, but, to know God on a spiritual level...we must be Born of the Spirit @Jack .

You EVADED every Scripture I quoted! And you gave ZERO.

 

[Rita]

Thread 'Christianity Board Statement of Faith'
Christianity Board Statement of Faith

sorry guys but this is getting into a debate and it’s a close handed subject
thread locked